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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why

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S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Republicans to postpone vote on AHCA out of remembrance of something happening in the UK.
 
J

jWILL253

Banned
pigeon said:
Sure. The argument isn't that people don't have a better reason to trust Obama. They obviously do. It's that "I trust him to do the right thing" is not a good ethical rule.
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Please explain what ethics law post-public service Obama is breaking by accepting a paycheck for doing a thing for someone?
 
V

Vimes

Member
I grew up with the NYT. I still think they're doing mostly good work; but the Opinions page, particularly on Sundays, is a complete joke right now and it kinda breaks my heart. Liz Spayd is clearly cancer.
 
C

CrimzonSamurai

Member
Did somebody slip the monarch a speedball again?

By 20 January, he was close to death. His physicians, led by Lord Dawson of Penn, issued a bulletin with words that became famous: "The King's life is moving peacefully towards its close."[104][105] Dawson's private diary, unearthed after his death and made public in 1986, reveals that the King's last words, a mumbled "God damn you!",[106] were addressed to his nurse, Catherine Black, when she gave him a sedative that night. Dawson, who supported the "gentle growth of euthanasia",[107] wrote that he hastened the King's death by injecting him, after 11.00 p.m., with two consecutive lethal injections: 750 mg morphine followed by a gram of cocaine shortly afterwards
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_V#Declining_health_and_death
 
J

jtb

Banned
There are great things about the Times. Its opinion page and its politics desk are certainly not among them.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Vimes said:
I grew up with the NYT. I still think they're doing mostly good work; but the Opinions page, particularly on Sundays, is a complete joke right now and it kinda breaks my heart. Liz Spayd is clearly cancer.
Click to expand...

Opinion pages in general are shit. Hell, anyone in this thread could write an opinion piece, send it in, and if they think it's interesting or no one's talking about it they'll help you polish it up and publish it.
 
S

StopMakingSense

Member
The commonwealth is dissolved. Neo England reformed, with her majesty's Corgis as the new monarchs.

Treaty of Paris dissolved. Neo England takes back ownership of the 13 original colonies.
 
T

TiredofWinning

Member
sangreal said:
WaPo has been much better for at least the past year
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Plus WaPo isn't as ungodly bougie as NY Times can be sometime. I remember a longform a year or two ago where some dude just sat in a hotel room in the Plaza and watched Russian TV, even got a fucking house call psychologist.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
TiredofWinning said:
Plus WaPo isn't as ungodly bougie as NY Times can be sometime. I remember a longform a year or two ago where some dude just sat in a hotel room in the Plaza and watched Russian TV, even got a fucking house call psychologist.
Click to expand...

For every one of those they have they also have something like that amazing long form piece on a guy who died alone in his apartment and wasn't found for like 6 weeks.
 
C

CrimzonSamurai

Member
NPR's book review of Ivanka Trump's "Women Who Work" is scathing.

Ostensibly a business guide for women, Women Who Work is a long simper of a book, full of advice so anodyne ("I believe that we each get one life and it's up to us to live it to the fullest"), you could almost scramble the sentences and come out with something just as coherent. In spite of this formlessness, there are distinct, revealing moments here.
Click to expand...

Many of the inspiring quotations Trump stakes a claim to here seem to have been culled from apocryphal inspiration memes. For instance, on the subject of asking for a raise, she quotes another black women writing on racism, Maya Angelou: "Ask for what you want and be prepared to get it."
But the real, very different line is from Angelou's memoir The Heart of a Woman, and it is a piece of advice about living in a racist world. "Ask for what you want," Angelou's mother tells her, "and be prepared to pay for what you get."
Click to expand...

Reading it feels like eating scented cotton balls.
Click to expand...

http://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/52658...ign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170503
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
StopMakingSense said:
The commonwealth is dissolved. Neo England reformed, with her majesty's Corgis as the new monarchs.

Treaty of Paris dissolved. Neo England takes back ownership of the 13 original colonies.
Click to expand...
Best flag restored

ross.jpg
 
C

CrimzonSamurai

Member
VendettaRed07 said:
What is this thing
Click to expand...

I am giddy that you asked!

It's the SERAPIS FLAG!

Serapis is a name given to an unconventional, early United States ensign flown from the captured British frigate Serapis.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serapis_flag

TL;DR: John Paul Jones took a British frigate during the Revolutionary War and needed a flag to fly above it to make it a legit prize of war and not piracy, for which he would be hung instead of captured as a prisoner of war. Unfortunately Jones had left the US before the flag was codified, so he didn't have any to fly over it. He sailed to a neutral dutch port, and the dutch only had a written description of the US flag to go on, so they made him the Serapis Flag to fly over his captured ship.

It's the best obscure early US flag that hasn't been co-opted by racist shits!

Edit: oh and some people just call it the "John Paul Jones Flag" but that's way lamer than Serapis Flag.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
CrimzonSamurai said:
I am giddy that you asked!

It's the SERAPIS FLAG!



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serapis_flag

TL;DR: John Paul Jones took a British frigate during the Revolutionary War and needed a flag to fly above it to make it a legit prize of war and not piracy, for which he would be hung instead of captured as a prisoner of war. Unfortunately Jones had left the US before the flag was codified, so he didn't have any to fly over it. He sailed to a neutral dutch port, and the dutch only had a written description of the US flag to go on, so they made him the Serapis Flag to fly over his captured ship.

It's the best obscure early US flag that hasn't been co-opted by racist shits!

Edit: oh and some people just call it the "John Paul Jones Flag" but that's way lamer than Serapis Flag.
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Huh. That's cool. I dig early obscure US flags. They almost always have a cool story even if their designs are sometimes horrible.

I like bringing this one to Revolution games.
flag_vector.png

Flag of New England that we sort of brought back for the team. It hasn't been co-opted by racist shit heads
unless you count New England sports fans as such ffs

We even have a gay pride version !

-ca91e1722c7cdbde.jpg


sorry hard to see, best I could find atm
 
C

CrimzonSamurai

Member
VendettaRed07 said:
Huh. That's cool. I dig early obscure US flags. They almost always have a cool story even if their designs are sometimes horrible.

I like bringing this one to Revolution games.

Flag of New England that we sort of brought back for the team. It hasn't been co-opted by racist shit heads
unless you count New England sports fans as such

We even have a gay pride version !


sorry hard to see, best I could find atm
Click to expand...

Subtle dig detected.

But yeah I never actually knew what that flag was so now I am educated. Half the time I thought it was the Flag of Cascadia, but that's this:

cascadiaflag.jpg
 
J

jWILL253

Banned
pigeon said:
No, are you kidding? It was a lot of typing, and I'm pretty confident you have no actual interest in my argument. If you actually want to know go back and look.
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You're incorrect. You'd realize that if you were able to do more than reply to my posts with one sentence responses. But I'll humor you, since you think what you posted was so damn profound.

I almost stopped when you went on that pointless semantics argument about the word "progressive". Couldn't figure out if you were joking or not. Anyway...

pigeon said:
The complaint is that ethical behavior requires avoiding situations that could lead to undue influence, even if we don't actually believe there is undue influence in this case, because we should have a clear norm in favor of unquestionably ethical choices.

Caesar's wife must be above suspicion.

The amount of money and amount of work are related to the potential for undue influence here.

The Clintons are a good example of the problem here, in that, although in general I don't believe that MOST things the Clintons did were unethical, there are a few things where even I kind of think they're guilty, and it's unquestionable that in general they made no particular effort to make clear to people that their actions were ethical. This is bad for them politically. It's also bad for us politically, both because we become associated with them, and because our ethical positions become tainted by our efforts to defend the Clintons in what is essentially an indefensible position.

Straight up, on ethical issues specifically, nominating Clinton helped normalize Trump. Trump is obviously guilty of many ethical violations. Was it really correct for us to respond by nominating a candidate that could only be described as "probably not guilty of all but a few ethical violations?"*

I am one of the people who spent the last year arguing that it was correct. I thought "HILLARY CLINTON - A CRIMINAL FOR AMERICA" was a funny line!

In retrospect I don't just think I was wrong, I think it was bad for me. I think my moral sense was less effective because of the responsibility I felt to defend a candidate that I believed would be a good president but did not really believe was fundamentally that ethical or interested in being perceived as ethical. I should've had more doubts.

This is me having doubts! Obama should do better. He shouldn't just be ethical -- I trust him to be ethical. He should be extremely visibly and obviously ethical and to the extent that it is possible act to remove any conceivable doubt of his ethical behavior. Not because he's Obama, but because we should have expected the Clintons to do better. Once again, if your pitch is that you're focused on honest governance, you have to be focused on honest governance all the time, not just when you're in office.
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This seems like a pretty long-winded method of saying you have an optics problem with a former president being compensated for stuff. Even though you contradict yourself by saying it's not about optics later in the thread.

pigeon said:
No.

I'm pretty sure I'm extremely explicit in my post that this is not about optics.

Optics and appearances of ethical behavior are not the same thing. Frankly, that confusion, whether deliberate or accidental, is a great example of exactly what I'm concerned about here.
Click to expand...

You seem to be trying to make a point here that is so busy eating its own tail that no one knows what the hell you're talking about. It's not about optics... it's... about how it looks???

Okay, okay... I'll give it one last shot.

pigeon said:
Lots of ways. Most obviously, Obama could have deliberately advanced policies favorable to certain companies while in office, building a positive relationship with them that they are paying off now.

As I noted, I don't believe that Obama did do this.-
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Wayment...

So, you bring up a hypothetical situation about Obama using his influence and power while in office to gain favor with the private sector, and that he could be cashing in... then say you don't actually believe he did these things? So... what's the point here? If you don't think he's either guilty or capable of these types of shenanigans, why bring up a hypothetical? And why should that hypothetical - a hypothetical that, you admit yourself, would be so far out of his wheelhouse, that even you don't believe it - be a reason to hold his feet to a fire that the electorate didn't even hold Trump's feet to when he talked about raping women on tape? Why should anyone entertain your indignation, when said indignation is based on a fairy tale you made up in your own damn head? A fairy tale so far out of left field, that only Ichiro in his prime could reach out and grab it. There's a better chance of Chris Brown becoming a marriage counselor than that scenario occurring with Obama. You admit as much, and yet we're supposed to entertain such an impossible idea, simply because Obama making some quick cash using his god-given talent could look that nefarious if you look hard enough?

Then you try to cement your argument by making this dumbass statement:

pigeon said:
If next year the Democrats want to run a candidate who was found not guilty of murder on a technicality, is that fine with you because he's not guilty so ultimately it's just optics?
Click to expand...

... because a former public servant, who isn't running for a position of power, making some add-to-my-Ferrari-collection money, and the literal political equivalent of OJ Simpson are totally on the same level.

You go on to say that this could represent the "ongoing normalization of potentially unethical behavior in the Democratic Party", but really... This is the same party where, as I speak, Bernie Sanders is betraying his own base with his new "sort-of-want.jpg" approach to courting racists & pro-lifers; the same party where one of its major members, Anthony Weiner, can't stop sending pictures of his member to other members; the same party who let their base get split into thirds - Bernie Busters, Jill Stein faithfuls, and the rest of us - which is all according to keikaku for Russia to tear our collective unity into shreds; the same party that has been curling in a ball & crying for the past nine years, even when they controlled the government, when they should've been crying from the rooftops "REPUBLICANS DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW HOW TO GOVERN".

I... think the Democrats won't feel any heat from Obama buying his daughters an expensive Happy Meal. The Dems can clearly do bad by themselves.

And you didn't even mention what actual ethical laws might have been broken. So, technically, no, you never talked about that, specifically.

You know... I'm disappointed, I really am. I was sincerely hoping to learn a new perspective from your posts, since you were so adamant that I read them before replying to this thread. But you talked about the same thing everyone else in the Obama $400k thread talked about: optics. Only you said it with twice as many words, and twice as many senseless hypotheticals. You gave me the rhetorical equivalent of a dog giving me a dissertation on why he was chasing his own tail. Honestly, I ain't never been this let down. I haven't been this disappointed since I heard Eminem sing for the first time. This was like eating a Twinkie with no cream filling in it.

However, I did come across this post:

kirblar said:
After seeing Obama's upcoming HC Speech come up on Fox News and be used an excuse to bash him with pretty much the same talking points as the far left, that part of this article really resonated. (I'd post it in the dedicated thread if it were on the front page, but I'd rather not dredge that monstrosity up.)

The Far Left Is Still Out Of Touch With Black Voters
Click to expand...

Because this post highlights my biggest question, which no one has answered up to this point: why should Obama be held to a higher standard than any other president before him or since? And what actual, punishable crimes did he commit by taking that money from Wall Street for a speech that could be about why dental hygiene is good for you, for all we know?
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
CrimzonSamurai said:
NPR's book review of Ivanka Trump's "Women Who Work" is scathing.







http://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/52658...ign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170503
Click to expand...
Trump's lack of awareness, plus a habit of skimming from her sources, often results in spectacularly misapplied quotations — like one from Toni Morrison's Beloved about the brutal psychological scars of slavery. "Freeing yourself was one thing; claiming ownership of that freed self was another," is positioned in cute faux-handwritten capitals (and tagged #itwisewords) before a chapter on "working smarter." In it, she asks: "Are you a slave to your time or the master of it? Despite your best intentions, it's easy to be reactive and get caught up in returning calls, attending meetings, answering e-mails ..."
Click to expand...
Many of the inspiring quotations Trump stakes a claim to here seem to have been culled from apocryphal inspiration memes. For instance, on the subject of asking for a raise, she quotes another black women writing on racism, Maya Angelou: "Ask for what you want and be prepared to get it."

But the real, very different line is from Angelou's memoir The Heart of a Woman, and it is a piece of advice about living in a racist world. "Ask for what you want," Angelou's mother tells her, "and be prepared to pay for what you get."
Click to expand...
Wow. Ivanka Trump sure has a thing for misappropriating the work of talented African-American women, huh?
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
Stage flags are the freaking worst. Imagine if all countries had flags so damn complex. Gross. City flags, too! You can instantly rate how serious your city takes itself as being by the status of its flag. And by that I mean "could it sub in for a fictional nation in a pinch?" Or perhaps "was it designed by an authority higher than your local chamber of commerce?" How about "would this be embarrassing to have an at EDM festival?"
 
C

CrimzonSamurai

Member
aspiegamer said:
Stage flags are the freaking worst. Imagine if all countries had flags so damn complex. Gross. City flags, too! You can instantly rate how serious your city takes itself as being by the status of its flag. And by that I mean "could it sub in for a fictional nation in a pinch?" Or perhaps "was it designed by an authority higher than your local chamber of commerce?" How about "would this be embarrassing to have an at EDM festival?"
Click to expand...

From my experience at music festivals Marylanders clearly think their flag is "amazeballs."

I always bring my Serapis Flag :p
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
CrimzonSamurai said:
Of the ones that aren't that, Colorado's is definitely the worst. Looks like a sports team logo.
Click to expand...

What makes you say that? It's one of like 5 states that have flags that wouldn't stand out to me as anything weird alongside the flags of most other major countries. I guess single letters are more common to sports, but a c is a lot more low key than most letters.

Worst has to be Maryland. Just a chaotic mass of random shapes and colors as if the design was purposefully trying to make you go crazy by looking at it.

nunst032.gif
 
C

CrimzonSamurai

Member
thepotatoman said:
What makes you say that? It's one of like 5 states that have flags that wouldn't stand out to me as anything weird alongside the flags of most other major countries. I guess single letters are more common to sports, but a c is a lot more low key than most letters.

Worst has to be Maryland. Just a chaotic mass of random shapes and colors as if the design was purposefully trying to make you go crazy by looking at it.
]
Click to expand...

I just think it's boring, tbh. Couldn't have had a mountain skyline in there, or anything?

And yeah I used to hate the Maryland flag but I've lived here for so long and Marylanders are so in love with it it's kind of infectious. At least it's not just a seal with a blindfolded lady holding books with an eagle in the background or whatever.
 
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