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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why
- Thread starter RustyNails
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Host Samurai
Member
How come they are so easily to believe all of Hillary's scandals etc., but Trump is super clean and it's the liberal media out to get Trump.
We live in a bizzaro world where 30% of America would believe a fat orange idiot that makes up stories than Albert Einstein (if alive).
How come they are so easily to believe all of Hillary's scandals etc., but Trump is super clean and it's the liberal media out to get Trump.
It's because Trump is a glorified used car salesman. He knows exactly how to appeal to gullible idiots.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Gallup watch, Trump at 36%. I believe this matches an all-time low for him.
You know in movies when they have a scene where some guy in the middle (usually the villain or antagonist) is being ganged up on? And he's acting all indignant and lashing out, not realizing he's making his situation worse? Before they kill him or at least beat the crap out of him? Like Scar at the end of Lion King. That's Trump.
You know in movies when they have a scene where some guy in the middle (usually the villain or antagonist) is being ganged up on? And he's acting all indignant and lashing out, not realizing he's making his situation worse? Before they kill him or at least beat the crap out of him? Like Scar at the end of Lion King. That's Trump.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Gallup watch, Trump at 36%. I believe this matches an all-time low for him.
You know in movies when they have a scene where some guy in the middle (usually the villain or antagonist) is being ganged up on? And he's acting all indignant and lashing out, not realizing he's making his situation worse? Before they kill him or at least beat the crap out of him? Like Scar at the end of Lion King. That's Trump.
All-time low is 35
excelsiorlef
Member
Scott Pruitt was just on Meet the Press defending the withdraw from the Paris accords claiming that the coal sector added 50,000 jobs since the end of last year including 7,000 last month. Of course, Chuck Todd did not challenge the claim. It's incredible bullshit.
It's blatantly obvious that TV "journalists" believe their job is to just provide a platform and let the chips fall where they may.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
aspiegamer
Member
Why would Trump bring up a "gun problem"? What kind of "problem" is he saying we have? That's extremely un-GOPish to dare say. And yes I know he means "dark people have gun problems" but this is still extremely random. Whenever people do want to talk about it it's always that dreaded left out to ruin the 'Murican way of life, after all.
nature boy
Member
Meh, Gallup goes up and down. Give me a couple of weeks in the mid 30s and then I'll believe his support is crumbling.
He's trying to suggest that democrats and the left would bring up the problem of access to guns if this occurred in the US and the terrorist were firing off rounds because it's easy to get a gun in the US as opposed to the UK. Trump is just a ducking idiot and doesn't understand what he's saying. Thank god they didn't have guns on hand for this attack. Why? Because now it's not easy get one in the U.K.Why would Trump bring up a "gun problem"? What kind of "problem" is he saying we have? That's extremely un-GOPish to dare say. And yes I know he means "dark people have gun problems" but this is still extremely random. Whenever people do want to talk about it it's always that dreaded left out to ruin the 'Murican way of life, after all.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
He's trying to suggest that democrats and the left would bring up the problem of access to guns if this occurred in the US and the terrorist were firing off rounds because it's easy to get a gun in the US as opposed to the UK. Trump is just a ducking idiot and doesn't understand what he's saying. Thank god they didn't have guns on hand for this attack. Why? Because now it's not easy get one in the U.K.
Yeah, they would've killed way more than 6 people.
Aaron Strife
Banned
It's been going straight down for like a week.Meh, Gallup goes up and down. Give me a couple of weeks in the mid 30s and then I'll believe his support is crumbling.
I think the Paris accord is hurting him bigly. I wonder if there's a psychological element to this where at least presidents like Bush could feign concern over the environment and seem like they're doing "enough" for most Americans to be bothered by it. Whereas I don't think we've ever had a president as flippant and open about his disdain for environmentalism as Trump.
balladofwindfishes
Member
At least the early results show backing out of the Paris accord hurt Trump's approval.
Nothing he does ever helps him. The only thing that has helped him was just not saying anything. That's when it ticks up
But he's not able to say nothing, and the Russia thing is forcing him to not be able to sort of take a back seat and let the country run auto-pilot.
The Republican Party and the people who identify with them are essentially a cult now. Complete disavowing of reality. There's no easy way to save these people.Good god what is happening to the USA. How can people be so fucking dumb. Yes, I know about Fox news and all, but wow. D:
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Makes it even more puzzling. That bill will at best cause major contraction of the HC industry. He'd stand to lose a lot of that money.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
The Republican Party and the people who identify with them are essentially a cult now. Complete disavowing of reality. There's no easy way to save these people.
I'm glad im not the only person to use the word cult to describe them.
I work at a market research firm - I heard a survey yesterday on the AHCA from an older ardent Trump supporter. It went something like this:
Survey asks if the respondent supports the AHCA. - Respondent goes "I hate Obamacare and I'm glad the congress put something else up!"
Survey then goes through all the negative provisions of the AHCA. - Respondent answers "Strongly against bringing back pre-existing conditions. Strongly against cutting Medicare. Strongly against cutting Medicaid. Strongly against giving a tax break to insurance companies and the rich. STRONGLY against raising healthcare to five times more for the elderly."
The next question asks "Would you be more or less favorable towards your senator if they supported this bill?" - to which this respondent reverts back to something like "Oh yeah I hate Obamacare I would be very favorable!".
My question from all this is how the fuck can someone hate every single provision in the new bill and then willfully still want their senator to support it? Are people that loyal to their party they'll let their party's president do literally anything? It's completely baffling to me.
Survey asks if the respondent supports the AHCA. - Respondent goes "I hate Obamacare and I'm glad the congress put something else up!"
Survey then goes through all the negative provisions of the AHCA. - Respondent answers "Strongly against bringing back pre-existing conditions. Strongly against cutting Medicare. Strongly against cutting Medicaid. Strongly against giving a tax break to insurance companies and the rich. STRONGLY against raising healthcare to five times more for the elderly."
The next question asks "Would you be more or less favorable towards your senator if they supported this bill?" - to which this respondent reverts back to something like "Oh yeah I hate Obamacare I would be very favorable!".
My question from all this is how the fuck can someone hate every single provision in the new bill and then willfully still want their senator to support it? Are people that loyal to their party they'll let their party's president do literally anything? It's completely baffling to me.
But healthcare reform as proposed is bad (or at best neutral) for the insurance companies, hospitals, and the pharma industry. Weird, no?
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I work at a market research firm - I heard a survey yesterday on the AHCA from an older ardent Trump supporter. It went something like this:
Survey asks if the respondent supports the AHCA. - Respondent goes "I hate Obamacare and I'm glad the congress put something else up!"
Survey then goes through all the negative provisions of the AHCA. - Respondent answers "Strongly against bringing back pre-existing conditions. Strongly against cutting Medicare. Strongly against cutting Medicaid. Strongly against giving a tax break to insurance companies and the rich. STRONGLY against raising healthcare to five times more for the elderly."
The next question asks "Would you be more or less favorable towards your senator if they supported this bill?" - to which this respondent reverts back to something like "Oh yeah I hate Obamacare I would be very favorable!".
My question from all this is how the fuck can someone hate every single provision in the new bill and then willfully still want their senator to support it? Are people that loyal to their party they'll let their party's president do literally anything? It's completely baffling to me.
Racism. A black man made Obamacare, therefore they hate it. Simple as that.
It needs to be used more in popular media. There's no use beating around this bush anymore.I'm glad im not the only person to use the word cult to describe them.
Sadsic - Think of them like cultists and you have your answer.
TestOfTide
Banned
I work at a market research firm - I heard a survey yesterday on the AHCA from an older ardent Trump supporter. It went something like this:
Survey asks if the respondent supports the AHCA. - Respondent goes "I hate Obamacare and I'm glad the congress put something else up!"
Survey then goes through all the negative provisions of the AHCA. - Respondent answers "Strongly against bringing back pre-existing conditions. Strongly against cutting Medicare. Strongly against cutting Medicaid. Strongly against giving a tax break to insurance companies and the rich. STRONGLY against raising healthcare to five times more for the elderly."
The next question asks "Would you be more or less favorable towards your senator if they supported this bill?" - to which this respondent reverts back to something like "Oh yeah I hate Obamacare I would be very favorable!".
My question from all this is how the fuck can someone hate every single provision in the new bill and then willfully still want their senator to support it? Are people that loyal to their party they'll let their party's president do literally anything? It's completely baffling to me.
If he's an ardent Trump supporter don't worry about him. What matters is everyone else, because Trump and the GOP didn't just win on the ardent Trump supporters.
Fenderputty
Banned
I work at a market research firm - I heard a survey yesterday on the AHCA from an older ardent Trump supporter. It went something like this:
Survey asks if the respondent supports the AHCA. - Respondent goes "I hate Obamacare and I'm glad the congress put something else up!"
Survey then goes through all the negative provisions of the AHCA. - Respondent answers "Strongly against bringing back pre-existing conditions. Strongly against cutting Medicare. Strongly against cutting Medicaid. Strongly against giving a tax break to insurance companies and the rich. STRONGLY against raising healthcare to five times more for the elderly."
The next question asks "Would you be more or less favorable towards your senator if they supported this bill?" - to which this respondent reverts back to something like "Oh yeah I hate Obamacare I would be very favorable!".
My question from all this is how the fuck can someone hate every single provision in the new bill and then willfully still want their senator to support it? Are people that loyal to their party they'll let their party's president do literally anything? It's completely baffling to me.
This is the GOP issue with healthcare in a nutshell. They just want Obamacare gone. So a ton of pressure exits to create a bill that has no chance of ever being liked
Abinash117
Member
I work at a market research firm - I heard a survey yesterday on the AHCA from an older ardent Trump supporter. It went something like this:
Survey asks if the respondent supports the AHCA. - Respondent goes "I hate Obamacare and I'm glad the congress put something else up!"
Survey then goes through all the negative provisions of the AHCA. - Respondent answers "Strongly against bringing back pre-existing conditions. Strongly against cutting Medicare. Strongly against cutting Medicaid. Strongly against giving a tax break to insurance companies and the rich. STRONGLY against raising healthcare to five times more for the elderly."
The next question asks "Would you be more or less favorable towards your senator if they supported this bill?" - to which this respondent reverts back to something like "Oh yeah I hate Obamacare I would be very favorable!".
My question from all this is how the fuck can someone hate every single provision in the new bill and then willfully still want their senator to support it? Are people that loyal to their party they'll let their party's president do literally anything? It's completely baffling to me.
Maybe not connecting ACA and Obamacare, and doesn't know how much Obamacare benefits them? It could be purely political at the moment. Doesn't think the AHCA is going to happen.
It could possible that in public the respondent doesn't want to admit it and look like opposing his Senator.
I work at a market research firm - I heard a survey yesterday on the AHCA from an older ardent Trump supporter. It went something like this:
Survey asks if the respondent supports the AHCA. - Respondent goes "I hate Obamacare and I'm glad the congress put something else up!"
Survey then goes through all the negative provisions of the AHCA. - Respondent answers "Strongly against bringing back pre-existing conditions. Strongly against cutting Medicare. Strongly against cutting Medicaid. Strongly against giving a tax break to insurance companies and the rich. STRONGLY against raising healthcare to five times more for the elderly."
The next question asks "Would you be more or less favorable towards your senator if they supported this bill?" - to which this respondent reverts back to something like "Oh yeah I hate Obamacare I would be very favorable!".
My question from all this is how the fuck can someone hate every single provision in the new bill and then willfully still want their senator to support it? Are people that loyal to their party they'll let their party's president do literally anything? It's completely baffling to me.
Republicans in a nutshell. They exist only to lower rich peoples taxes and to troll liberals. They don't care about anything else.
"Republican voters would burn their own house down if it meant the liberal next door had to choke on the smoke for 5 minutes."Republicans in a nutshell. They exist only to lower rich peoples taxes and to troll liberals. They don't care about anything else.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Remember also that every component of Obamacare except for the mandate polls very well.
You attach a well-known politician's name to it and that instantly defines 90% of the feelings towards it. Anything Trump proposes for example is going to be pretty closely linked to his dreadful approval ratings.
Obama is pretty popular as an ex-president so wouldn't you know it, ACA suddenly is too.
This is what imo a lot of the single-payer backers miss. It polls really well as an abstract concept, sure, but wait until a president takes up the cause and then 50% of the country is firmly opposed to BernieCare. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, I'm just tired of seeing liberals delude themselves into thinking "oh well if we just break it down and explain it to people, everyone will love it!" If you're explaining, you're losing.
Doesn't really happen in this thread but OT is rife with it. And even here it's pretty tempered compared to places like Reddit, DailyKos or TYT.
You attach a well-known politician's name to it and that instantly defines 90% of the feelings towards it. Anything Trump proposes for example is going to be pretty closely linked to his dreadful approval ratings.
Obama is pretty popular as an ex-president so wouldn't you know it, ACA suddenly is too.
This is what imo a lot of the single-payer backers miss. It polls really well as an abstract concept, sure, but wait until a president takes up the cause and then 50% of the country is firmly opposed to BernieCare. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, I'm just tired of seeing liberals delude themselves into thinking "oh well if we just break it down and explain it to people, everyone will love it!" If you're explaining, you're losing.
Doesn't really happen in this thread but OT is rife with it. And even here it's pretty tempered compared to places like Reddit, DailyKos or TYT.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
They've been told for 7 years that Obamcare is a disaster and that it needs to go away, so thats pretty firmly entrenched in that idea. But at the same time the republicans cant come up with anything better so....
They've been told for 7 years that Obamcare is a disaster and that it needs to go away, so thats pretty firmly entrenched in that idea. But at the same time the republicans cant come up with anything better so....
That's why they're sabotaging Obamacare from the inside. But they're taking the heat for sabotaging Obamacare because they are in control of the government.
Trump is the only one dumb enough to think the Republicans will successfully be able to pin this on Democrats.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I"m sure there would be some initial partisan hostility to single payer but like Medicare (especially since it would be Medicare) I assume it would quickly become untouchable.Remember also that every component of Obamacare except for the mandate polls very well.
You attach a well-known politician's name to it and that instantly defines 90% of the feelings towards it. Anything Trump proposes for example is going to be pretty closely linked to his dreadful approval ratings.
Obama is pretty popular as an ex-president so wouldn't you know it, ACA suddenly is too.
This is what imo a lot of the single-payer backers miss. It polls really well as an abstract concept, sure, but wait until a president takes up the cause and then 50% of the country is firmly opposed to BernieCare. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, I'm just tired of seeing liberals delude themselves into thinking "oh well if we just break it down and explain it to people, everyone will love it!" If you're explaining, you're losing.
Doesn't really happen in this thread but OT is rife with it. And even here it's pretty tempered compared to places like Reddit, DailyKos or TYT.
The ACA also benefits from now being compared to AHCA which is obviously going to make it look great. It's easy to dislike the ACA when the alternative is Trump saying "everyone will be insured and have lower premiums, also Canada has great healthcare wink wink" and then actually see what they want to do.
Reverend Barber is great. I don't believe in God anymore but he kind of makes me wish I did.BTW there was a killer interview with Rev Barber on NPR today. He talked about a bunch of things, but early on made an incredibly concise explanation of why the concept of the modern "white evangelical" is a complete sham. It's probably online, I'll look later.
Abinash117
Member
Scott Pruitt was just on Meet the Press defending the withdraw from the Paris accords claiming that the coal sector added 50,000 jobs since the end of last year including 7,000 last month. Of course, Chuck Todd did not challenge the claim. It's incredible bullshit.
Yeah, it is. The 50,000 and 7,000 is from mining overall, not coal mining. However, some coal mining jobs were created, but not fully for generating electricity. A few of the jobs was for the steelmaking industry.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
That surprises me. They're one of the more consistent voting and cultural groups, aren't they?BTW there was a killer interview with Rev Barber on NPR today. He talked about a bunch of things, but early on made an incredibly concise explanation of why the concept of the modern "white evangelical" is a complete sham. It's probably online, I'll look later.
Aaron Strife
Banned
imo ACA is already somewhat untouchable.I"m sure there would be some initial partisan hostility to single payer but like Medicare (especially since it would be Medicare) I assume it would quickly become untouchable.
The ACA also benefits from now being compared to AHCA which is obviously going to make it look great. It's easy to dislike the ACA when the alternative is Trump saying "everyone will be insured and have lower premiums, also Canada has great healthcare wink wink" and then actually see what they want to do.
Once an entitlement is given, voters are going to be pissed as hell if you try and take it away.
Maybe I'm completely off-base here, but I think the idea is that evangelicals more than any other group simultaneously 1) claim to have absolute moral superiority while 2) completely abandoning any of their professed morals in order to justify voting party line.That surprises me. They're one of the more consistent voting and cultural groups, aren't they?
Trump won a higher percentage of evangelicals than Bush or Romney and is easily the least religious president we've ever had.
That surprises me. They're one of the more consistent voting and cultural groups, aren't they?
Their existence is not a sham. The fact that they call themselves "evangelical" is.
Trumps Support Drops in Military Communities
Now absolute majority disapproves. A negative 16 point swing in a month.
Now absolute majority disapproves. A negative 16 point swing in a month.
Tranqueris
Banned
2. I hate, hate, hate, the way Todd mutters, "uh huh" while a guest is talking.
I think I hate it more than Don Lemon's "okay, okay, okay, okay."
BlastProcessing
Member
Trumps Support Drops in Military Communities
Now absolute majority disapproves. A negative 16 point swing in a month.
That 16% represents people he interviewed for DOD, HS, and National Security Advisors.
If you were wondering why the VA polls are showing a blowout regardless of whether Northam or Pierello wins, there's the answer.Trumps Support Drops in Military Communities
Now absolute majority disapproves. A negative 16 point swing in a month.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Trumps Support Drops in Military Communities
Now absolute majority disapproves. A negative 16 point swing in a month.
This is difficult for Dems to capitalize on.
You can push for a smarter, less confrontational, and more supported military. But that likely also means a degree of downsizing.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
This is difficult for Dems to capitalize on.
You can push for a smarter, less confrontational, and more supported military. But that likely also means a degree of downsizing.
I don't think it is as hard as some say. You can still support the military, say they'll give them what they need to protect our country, etc. GOP just throws out random numbers of billions of dollars.
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
This is difficult for Dems to capitalize on.
You can push for a smarter, less confrontational, and more supported military. But that likely also means a degree of downsizing.
Democrats need to recruit young veterans to run on a platform of improving the lives of troops. The military needs some spending reform and running on using those savings for a new VA bill would be a winner, I think.
Imagine an ad saying... instead of paying $100 for a pencil, we can use that to send you to school. Overtly simplistic; but I'm sure there's some good examples like that the Dems need to exploit.
BlastProcessing
Member
I don't think it is as hard as some say. You can still support the military, say they'll give them what they need to protect our country, etc. GOP just throws out random numbers of billions of dollars.
And there is the fact that military communities care about things like competent leadership, jobs and healthcare.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
It is known that the Dems never had a plan for Veterans and never will. Just look at what Trump said about them durning the election.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
This is difficult for Dems to capitalize on.
You can push for a smarter, less confrontational, and more supported military. But that likely also means a degree of downsizing.
Just go in hard on veterans programs.
It's really not. Just run campaigns and win on the wave.This is difficult for Dems to capitalize on.
You can push for a smarter, less confrontational, and more supported military. But that likely also means a degree of downsizing.
One of the things to catch onto is that your biggest margins w/ waves like this are out of your control. You can absolutely over/underperform, but just running normal campaigns w/ good candidates is going to be enough to leverage it all on its own.
If you have new ideas, great! Just don't do what Clinton's campaign did and throw out the old ones to implement them, do both!
Having grown up in VA (full of exurbs and Military people) I'm not surprised that the two areas are tracking almost identically. It's Romney Republican-land.And there is the fact that military communities care about things like competent leadership, jobs and healthcare.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I don't think it is as hard as some say. You can still support the military, say they'll give them what they need to protect our country, etc. GOP just throws out random numbers of billions of dollars.
Democrats need to recruit young veterans to run on a platform of improving the lives of troops. The military needs some spending reform and running on using those savings for a new VA bill would be a winner, I think.
Imagine an ad saying... instead of paying $100 for a pencil, we can use that to send you to school. Overtly simplistic; but I'm sure there's some good examples like that the Dems need to exploit.
True, you can probably safely run on spending reform to a degree and additional support.
And there is the fact that military communities care about things like competent leadership, jobs and healthcare.
The competent, rational, leader is the safest route.
Foreign Policy is the minefield.
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