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[shinra-bansho]

Lol Ellison couldn't even win the shit sandwich DNC chair role.

 

[kirblar]

And if you wanted confirmation UK's election is not about urban city liberalism vs rural shire conservatism, Nick Clegg just lost his seat.

1 data point isn't going to prove or disprove a trend. (And clearly, there are multiple things going on w/ the election w/ Scotland going the complete opposite direction due to local factors.)

Lol Ellison couldn't even win the shit sandwich DNC chair role.

I started off supporting him and by the end I was glad Perez had been inserted by Obama's crew because of the red flags we were seeing from Ellison's campaign.

 

[VendettaRed07]

I think the strongest candidate will win in an actual crowded field in 2020.

If the party pulls the same bullshit and tries to center around one person to make the primary "easy", we'll be fucked again.

I really don't want to see a small field. I want like 15+ legitimate candidates. Legit. Not, Sanders, 13 Martin O'malley's and Kamala Harris. Multiple strong contenders.

In that scenario the person with the strongest vision and most compelling ideas will likely come out on top. 2016 field was too small and was basically a candidate with experienced people and resources working for them vs someone with no idea what they were doing. It's also possible Hillary's struggle to find a consistent message would have hurt her more had the more centrist vote been split if Biden got in. Or something. (I'm not trying to say, 'Sanders was robbed!', but Hillary running against other people with an actual chance of winning would have been nice)

 

[shinra-bansho]

No one has mentioned Unemployed Man yet today have they?

 

[sphagnum]

So a quick summary of what happened in the UK for those of us who don't follow it?

Did the good guys or bad guys win?

It's like how the Rebels managed to blow up the Death Star partly because of their own skill and luck but also largely because of Krennic and Tarkin's arrogance and incompetence. The Empire survives but Vader is about to be demoted in favor of Dr. Cylo.

We'll have to see if Theresa May fights Boris Johnson's team of cybernetic warriors inside a space whale and if she finds a shifty archaeologist sidekick to know if the comparison holds up.

 

[Mr.Shrugglesツ]

No one has mentioned Unemployed Man yet today have they?

There's a whole thread about him testifying.

 

[Coriolanus]

So goddamn happy r/n

No. He doesn't believe. You can't rebrand someone into something. Corbyn and Sanders have been Corbyn and Sanders for decades.

Just rerun Sanders at this point tbh, he was always a better Corbyn.

Aye, but imagine if sanders... grew a beard!

 

[Ogodei]

Uh oh

Needing an Ulster party for a coalition would be absolute hell for the NI parts of the Brexit talks, which are already fraught enough as it is.

 

[Plinko]

I think the strongest candidate will win in an actual crowded field in 2020.

If the party pulls the same bullshit and tries to center around one person to make the primary "easy", we'll be fucked again.

I really don't want to see a small field. I want like 15+ legitimate candidates. Legit. Not, Sanders, 13 Martin O'malley's and Kamala Harris. Multiple strong contenders.

In that scenario the person with the strongest vision and most compelling ideas will likely come out on top. 2016 field was too small and was basically a candidate with experienced people and resources working for them vs someone with no idea what they were doing (I'm not trying to say, 'Sanders was robbed!', but Hillary running against other people with an actual chance of winning would have been nice)

Right. Everyone who wants a shot--let them in.

 

[BlastProcessing]

This mirrors my thoughts while I watched Comey testify:

What it Feels Like for a Woman and James Comey

A powerful man—your boss—invites you to discuss business after hours in an intimate setting. You feel uneasy. The man has crossed the line before, singling you out, blowing you kisses, whispering softly in your ear. But to turn him down would be an insult. And let's face it, you're a little intrigued. Someone powerful is paying attention to you.

The date is arranged at a swanky spot: the Beverly Hills Hotel or the Green Room at the White House. They both have bedrooms nearby which makes you a little nervous. Still, you assume others will be there. But when you arrive—surprise!— it's just the two of you. The waitstaff is discreet. You note: ”Two Navy stewards waited on us, only entering the room to serve food and drinks."

Your instincts tell you something's up, but it's hard to put into words. ”The one-on-one setting...was, at least in part, an effort to have me ask for my job and create some sort of patronage relationship." Bingo! This is not business as usual.

There's an ulterior motive.

The powerful man starts asking questions: Do you like your job? Do you want to keep it? You think your hard work and dedication makes the answers obvious. Still, you respond, ”I love my work," and want to keep at it. The powerful man nods. Then it happens: he moves on you ”like a bitch."

”I need loyalty," he says. ”I expect loyalty." He lays out the quid pro quo: you make him happy, he'll make you happy.

You're stunned. You know you should storm away from the small oval table. Instead, you sit paralyzed. Later, you recall, ”I didn't move, speak, or change my facial expression in any way during the awkward silence that followed." This is typical. When threatened, the nervous system sometimes goes into a ”freeze response." You assess the risk and determine that fight or flight doesn't help you. Staying put does.

The whole thing is worth a read.

 

[Poodlestrike]

No one has mentioned Unemployed Man yet today have they?

He's at least semiemployed now. Doing some voting rights thing for the DNC.

 

[pigeon]

Not with the polling figures on the Muslim ban.You'd think a woman would have been a perfect candidate against a sexual predator, too.

You can get very far hating Muslims, but not very far if you are one.

Ah, yes, the moderate pro-appeasement Democratic faction.

Let's not care what they think any more. Kind of a big message from Clinton and Corbyn.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I, for one, wouldn't hesitate to vote Inanimate Carbon Rod 2020.

To be fair, a carbon rod never called me the N-word.

 

[Bronx-Man]

In an ideal world the 2020 primaries would look like:

Kamala Harris
Al Franken
Keith Ellison
Tammy Duckworth
Kirsten Giilibrand
Amy Klobuchar

and some more I can't remember at the moment

 

[neurosisxeno]

In an ideal world the 2020 primaries would look like:

Kamala Harris
Al Franken
Keith Ellison
Tammy Duckworth
Kirsten Giilibrand
Amy Klobuchar

and some more I can't remember at the moment

Not putting Booker on any "2020 Potential Candidates" list is silly.

 

[Gruco]

and some more I can't remember at the moment

You guys

Chris Murphy

Ah, yes, the moderate pro-appeasement Democratic faction.

Let's not care what they think any more. Kind of a big message from Clinton and Corbyn.

Can you be more explicit as to what you mean by "the message from Clinton"?

 

[Wilsongt]

It's like how the Rebels managed to blow up the Death Star partly because of their own skill and luck but also largely because of Krennic and Tarkin's arrogance and incompetence. The Empire survives but Vader is about to be demoted in favor of Dr. Cylo.

We'll have to see if Theresa May fights Boris Johnson's team of cybernetic warriors inside a space whale and if she finds a shifty archaeologist sidekick to know if the comparison holds up.

I... never watched Star Wars.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

France has held two elections and inaugurated a President and the UK has announced and held a snap election in the time between the first leg of the GA-06 vote and the runoff.

It seems fucking ridiculous.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Not putting Booker on any "2020 Potential Candidates" list is silly.

I dunno. I got a bad feeling.

 

[Suikoguy]

hbomberguy posted a video on the UK election:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVbC0jASJYA

 

[Wilsongt]

In an ideal world the 2020 primaries would look like:

Kamala Harris
Al Franken
Keith Ellison
Tammy Duckworth
Kirsten Giilibrand
Amy Klobuchar

and some more I can't remember at the moment

You only need Bernie Sanders.

He will win, remember?

 

[sphagnum]

I... never watched Star Wars.

That's a bombad decision.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I... never watched Star Wars.

Well looks like you've got something to do this weekend!

 

[pigeon]

Can you be more explicit as to what you mean by "the message from Clinton"?

I made that pretty vague, sorry.

The Democrats have always run an explicitly moderate platform on economic justice (at least since Dukakis).

The Bernie folks have made a compelling argument that that's an error today. Corbyn does too.

We should stop running moderates and start running advocates, both on economic and social justice.

 

[Neodiablo22]

This mirrors my thoughts while I watched Comey testify:

What it Feels Like for a Woman and James Comey



The whole thing is worth a read.

https://youtu.be/Mt3QpDh7zXI

 

[Coriolanus]

hbomberguy posted a video on the UK election:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVbC0jASJYA

mind you, that video leaves out that Corbo had some pretty bad popularity ratings with the general voting population, but yeah...it was indeed mostly like that.

 

[Aaron Strife]

In an ideal world the 2020 primaries would look like:

Kamala Harris
Al Franken
Keith Ellison
Tammy Duckworth
Kirsten Giilibrand
Amy Klobuchar

and some more I can't remember at the moment

TBH I don't think Franken and Klobuchar run against each other.

I suspect Franken would step aside for Klobuchar.

 

[Kusagari]

Booker is the Democrats Rubio.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Booker is the Democrats Rubio.

Bingo.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

I made that pretty vague, sorry.

The Democrats have always run an explicitly moderate platform on economic justice (at least since Dukakis).

The Bernie folks have made a compelling argument that that's an error today. Corbyn does too.

We should stop running moderates and start running advocates, both on economic and social justice.

Thats just what Quist tried to do in Montana last month and there isn't much evidence that it helped him at all.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Moderates like neoliberal dronebummer.

 

[TestOfTide]

I made that pretty vague, sorry.

The Democrats have always run an explicitly moderate platform on economic justice (at least since Dukakis).

The Bernie folks have made a compelling argument that that's an error today. Corbyn does too.

We should stop running moderates and start running advocates, both on economic and social justice.

Counterpoint, Macron's party is about to win big time and he ran on a basically being France's equivalent to Bill Clinton.

I think that kind of message CAN work in places where we could conceivably win by getting the cities to just outvote everyone else though.

 

[Coriolanus]

Counterpoint, Macron's party is about to win big time and he ran on a basically being France's equivalent to Bill Clinton.

I think that kind of message CAN work in places where we could conceivably win by getting the cities to just outvote everyone else though.

i mean, his counterpoint to that is obviously that you've already tried a Macron. The candidate was called Hillary Clinton. Thus...

 

[Gruco]

I made that pretty vague, sorry.

The Democrats have always run an explicitly moderate platform on economic justice (at least since Dukakis).

The Bernie folks have made a compelling argument that that's an error today. Corbyn does too.

We should stop running moderates and start running advocates, both on economic and social justice.

That's what I assumed you meant, I just wanted to push back against any insinuation or potential for inference that Clinton or her voters represented some kind of "moderate pro-appeasement Democratic faction" that deserves to be ignored, or to ask for examples of appeasement.

I also want to re-iterate my point that it's really easy to over-interpret these things. What if Clinton's problem was that she was bad at campaigning, rather not being socialist enough? The party has already been noticeably moving to left. Every election Democrats have lost since 2000 has been by .1% of the vote or less. There are a host of counterfactuals in the universe. Etc.

 

[sphagnum]

i mean, his counterpoint to that is obviously that you've already tried a Macron. The candidate was called Hillary Clinton. Thus...

She wasn't dreamy like Macron-kun though.

 

[TestOfTide]

i mean, his counterpoint to that is obviously that you've already tried a Macron. The candidate was called Hillary Clinton. Thus...

You can't really compare Macron to Hillary Clinton because Macron didn't deal with 4 years of laser focused attacks leading to 60% of France to hating him.

And again, the biggest factor is that Macron and Corbyn ran in 2017 whereas Hillary ran in 2016.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I made that pretty vague, sorry.

The Democrats have always run an explicitly moderate platform on economic justice (at least since Dukakis).

The Bernie folks have made a compelling argument that that's an error today. Corbyn does too.

We should stop running moderates and start running advocates, both on economic and social justice.

This is like using Trump's hail mary win as an example that his platform is a winning one when any of the other 15 Republicans running would have basically destroyed Clinton.

Corbyn is about to do about as well as Gordon Brown, how do you reconcile that?

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Glad that all is not lost for U.K. by the looks of things over there.

I can't tell if Gallbaro, the neogaf poster. is a troll or not.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

When the vote share for US President determines the makeup of Congress you are more than welcome to call me about how the socialist revolution is gonna be real this time. Bernie has the same fundamental problem that Sawant has in Seattle; you energize a bunch of people around you as an individual, you get elected/popular, and then nobody cares anymore about the broader movement because all the energy was tied up in a cult of personality and not your platform of ideas.

If Bernie had a heart attack and died tomorrow the (popular) socialist movement would basically die with him, we have absolutely zero institutionalization or well-known supporting characters; it's all driven by Bernie for better and worse. And even a President Bernie doesn't help change local/state party makeup, let alone the House/Senate. We don't need one socialist president, we need a hundred socialist congressmen.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Counterpoint, Macron's party is about to win big time and he ran on a basically being France's equivalent to Bill Clinton.

I think that kind of message CAN work in places where we could conceivably win by getting the cities to just outvote everyone else though.

You aren't going to sell Bill Clintonism again when mass incarceration still exists, young people can't afford to go to school, the jobs the get don't pay enough to afford homes or pay off student debt if they do go to college, healthcare costs are still out of control and about to get worse.. People aren't getting married or having children at healthy rates because of low income as well. I could go on.

Prospects are getting worse and the American dream is dying. There's seriously no hope amongst young people for the future and they need to be convinced that there is a life other than scrapping by working a shitty retail job.

 

[pigeon]

Thats just what Quist tried to do in Montana last month and there isn't much evidence that it helped him at all.

He literally gained 15 points, what evidence would you need exactly

Counterpoint, Macron's party is about to win big time and he ran on a basically being France's equivalent to Bill Clinton.

I think that kind of message CAN work in places where we could conceivably win by getting the cities to just outvote everyone else though.

French better than Americans at not wanting to vote for Nazis, having more direct experience with them.

Also the election structure matters. If all the Republicans who didn't want Trump to win had endorsed Hillary instead of endorsing Trump or no-one because we have a two-party system, she would have cruised to victory too.

That's what I assumed you meant, I just wanted to push back against any insinuation or potential for inference that Clinton or her voters represented some kind of "moderate pro-appeasement Democratic faction" that deserves to be ignored, or to ask for examples of appeasement.

I also want to re-iterate my point that it's really easy to over-interpret these things. What if Clinton's problem was that she was bad at campaigning, rather not being socialist enough? The party has already been noticeably moving to left. Every election Democrats have lost since 2000 has been by .1% of the vote or less. There are a host of counterfactuals in the universe. Etc.

That's not really the point. The argument has always been that running a socialist would lead to certain massive defeat. It's been made a million times in this very thread. I've made it!

I think that argument is looking really bad right now, for a whole lot of reasons. And if running an actual socialist is no worse than on par with running a neoliberal, we should obviously run the socialist.

 

[shinra-bansho]

The US is not the UK is not France?
A lot of these pulling random lessons that support what I want seems oblivious to this reality.


Also, again lol Keith Ellison.

 

[sphagnum]

The US is not the UK is not France?

So why do their flags all have the same colors


CHECK
MATE

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

For all this talk of resistance, it's Ossoff that might pull of the first flip of the cycle and he's not some Bernie clone.

 

[pigeon]

The US is not the UK is not France?

I hear this asserted a lot, but where's the evidence? Have you ever seen all three countries in the same place at the same time?

 

[wandering]

Booker is the Democrats Rubio.

Holy shit

You're right

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

A thought popped into my head. Let's say that Trump gets impeach, what would the GOP in that situation when this happens?

 

[pigeon]

A thought popped into my head. Let's say that Trump gets impeach, what would the GOP in that situation when this happens?

At this time, the GOP would need to help impeach him, so I assume they'd be doing that.

 

[sphagnum]

I hear this asserted a lot, but where's the evidence? Have you ever seen all three countries in the same place at the same time?

In fact they seem to speak a lot of American in Britain and a lot of French in Louisiana.

hmmMmMm

 

[VendettaRed07]

Booker is the Democrats Rubio.

Whose the Democratic Christie because we are going to need them to rip him to shreds and end his campaign too