PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
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whyamihere
Banned
When has the White House ever been honest about being close to the votes on anything?
They may be right, but they're not a trustworthy source. They're consistently "close" to getting the votes.
They may be right, but they're not a trustworthy source. They're consistently "close" to getting the votes.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
It just seems weird.
How many times have they said that?
SatelliteOfLove
Member
The both sides (not right-left, patriot vs ballwasher) rhetoric pushed by that network makes no sense to me, his disapproval is in the toilert and ballwashers would hatewatch anyways. Go in. Especially now.
Awwwwkwwwaaard
if half of them weren't Dems as is.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Republicans, Democrats, it doesn't matter. Trump just wants to do what's right for Americans and works for the people.
Epic twitter thread from Tom Nichols, author of ""The Death of Expertise":
https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/881546248699904000
https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/881546248699904000
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Yes.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Yes.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I didn't know who this was.
I'm not counting on Portman to be the killing vote on AHCA. He might come out against it if he realizes it doesn't have the votes, but if McConnell gets 49 other Yeses he's in.
Epic twitter thread from Tom Nichols, author of ""The Death of Expertise":
https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/881546248699904000
I have witnessed much madness over the year.
I have concluded that, regardless of what happens with Trump, the madness is never going to end.
We cannot close Pandora's Box.
TiredofWinning
Member
I'm telling you now "return to normalcy" should be what the Dems run on in 2020.
Aaron Strife
Banned
But that's not inspiring
I can only vote if the Dem nominee is the second coming of Christ
Is there ever a time that people think the Democrats should move left?
They're winning? Stay the course, can't jeopardize the election! They're losing? Can't say anything risky! Their opponent is a madman with abysmal approval ratings? Be timid and remind people of what normal means!
I say take advantage of agitation and go all out.
Nobody will remember what "normal" is by then, not to mention people can't even agree on what "normal" should be right now.
But more importantly, the GOP would just spin that as a "Democrats want to return to the failed policies of the Obama administration, while we are still trying to fix the problems that created and are looking to the future".
Democrats should run on "Here is how we fix this mess".
Wanda/Wander
Member
Fighting for the status quo is...to put it lightly...a losing strategy.
The chaos might lead to more chaos but the GOP cannot sustain this indefinitely. Either the ship is righted, we end up with a run of bad presidents, or we get a full blown authoritarian.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I mean Clinton already was kind of running on "returning to normalcy." She sold herself to newspaper editorials by promising to bring back pork, wine and dining influential legislators, going back to legislating the way it was done before the Gingrich revolution... The return to sanity appeal could work in the Dem primary but swing voters went for Trump because they wanted a change from what they perceived (mostly wrongly) as poor results from the Obama era.
We need either those swing votes or to turn on the Obama voters who stayed home. That strategy won't work for either.
We need either those swing votes or to turn on the Obama voters who stayed home. That strategy won't work for either.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Jeff Stein asked congressional Democrats on what their plans to "fix Obamacare" are if the repeal bill fails and it's fucking bleak.
Highlights include Markey's plan, which is to take the most unpopular part of the bill and make it significantly more unpopular by making the mandate harsher, Manchin's "efficiency savings", Warner's "just let insurance companies offer shitty plans to young people", and Rep. Maloney's idea of "we should just preserve the ACA as is."
Klobuchar's at least was okay but not really a big change.
Highlights include Markey's plan, which is to take the most unpopular part of the bill and make it significantly more unpopular by making the mandate harsher, Manchin's "efficiency savings", Warner's "just let insurance companies offer shitty plans to young people", and Rep. Maloney's idea of "we should just preserve the ACA as is."
Klobuchar's at least was okay but not really a big change.
RustyNails
Member
But Chaos can be a ladder.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Dems must not run on something silly like "return to normalcy"' that's some Hillary empty campaign.
They have to go out, find people directly affected by each and every move the GOP makes, and tell them how it's impacting them. Do that everywhere, all the time, and on a national scale. The biggest weakness they'll have is having an actual presidential candidate, but in 2018 they could do really well if they stuck to this strategy, and if they do then it makes it easier in 2020.
But really, there is no super move to use, they have to go back to doing politics as usual, which is bitching about what the other party is doing and why it's all awful. That actually works. Forget the crazy people who will support Trump forever, 2016 was lost because people felt they could afford something different and Hillary couldn't sell a next-step of four to eight more years of Democrats. Completely different situation now, it's back to doing what always works in politics, not looking for the next Buddha's reincarnation or the road to the promised land. Leave the preachy stuff out, it was good for Obama, he's gone, focus on the impact of the GOP's policies, and forget the clown.
This isn't even difficult to do, the Dems have the easiest road to take ahead of them. GOP has a crazy clown as presient, and a majority, they can be blamed for everything. Any other opposition party in the world would win this easily.
They have to go out, find people directly affected by each and every move the GOP makes, and tell them how it's impacting them. Do that everywhere, all the time, and on a national scale. The biggest weakness they'll have is having an actual presidential candidate, but in 2018 they could do really well if they stuck to this strategy, and if they do then it makes it easier in 2020.
But really, there is no super move to use, they have to go back to doing politics as usual, which is bitching about what the other party is doing and why it's all awful. That actually works. Forget the crazy people who will support Trump forever, 2016 was lost because people felt they could afford something different and Hillary couldn't sell a next-step of four to eight more years of Democrats. Completely different situation now, it's back to doing what always works in politics, not looking for the next Buddha's reincarnation or the road to the promised land. Leave the preachy stuff out, it was good for Obama, he's gone, focus on the impact of the GOP's policies, and forget the clown.
This isn't even difficult to do, the Dems have the easiest road to take ahead of them. GOP has a crazy clown as presient, and a majority, they can be blamed for everything. Any other opposition party in the world would win this easily.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
We should make the mandate harsher and improve subsidies. America wants to achieve universal healthcare via a partnership with private insurance companies. Fine - now look at the other countries that have done this and emulate them. Germany, Switzerland, and the Netherlands are nations with universal private healthcare coverage and they all have extremely harsh penalties and force everyone to be in the market, or else they have to pay a serious fine. So that's what we have to do here.
Deuce Deuce
Member
Well I think it's premature for Democrats to play their hand. Republicans are choking themselves out atm, no need to provide any distractions of lifelines to them until they're ready to start actual negotiations.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
*eyeroll*
Yeah clearly what we need to do is go with the proven successful strategy of calling Republicans bad while offering no decent alternative to the future
It's always been a pendulum; we swing from one end to the next; we went from someone like Bush to Clinton to Bush Jr, to Obama, to Trump, and it'll go from Trump to someone his near opposite, as it almost always has.
Unless there isn't a candidate that's his near opposite.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Eh, I don't know if having a comprehensive party plan available right this minute is a good idea at this juncture. It could easily reframe the debate into GOP bill vs. Dem bill (one that probably won't pass anyway) instead of "holy Christ people will die if AHCA/BCRA passes"
The Democrats do have an alternative. It's the public option and more subsidies. But as far as a bipartisan "fix" goes, no need to go out blaring some new plan. I'd rather that happen behind the scenes.
The Democrats do have an alternative. It's the public option and more subsidies. But as far as a bipartisan "fix" goes, no need to go out blaring some new plan. I'd rather that happen behind the scenes.
Basileus777
Member
Surely you can offer more than this.
RastaMentality
Banned
Yeah coming out with a premade bill maybe isn't the best idea. It's also not as sexy as just promising stuff.
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Holy shit @ this chris christie takes a trip to the beach while the government is shutdown and all beaches are closed story. if this man had been fuckin VP.
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Holy shit @ this chris christie takes a trip to the beach while the government is shutdown and all beaches are closed story. if this man had been fuckin VP.
Deuce Deuce
Member
Why give Republicans ammo to help convince the BCRA hold outs to support their awful bill? Or hard conservatives might fold on the BCRA just to avoid negotiating against with quality progressive policies. We want them to come to the table, not whip the fear of the Democratic boogy man into their members.
Frank the Great
Banned
Christie is an epic asshole.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
I don't understand what you're on about. When did the Netherlands or Switzerland have healthcare systems that fall short of "decent"?
Did I miss a memo? I didn't realize public option was back on the table. If we add a public option then we end up like Germany where 89% of healthcare expenditures come from public spending. Adios, nonino.
What happened? Is it meatloaf related?
aspiegamer
Member
"Temporary absence of American leadership" is a savagely depressing thing to read. It's completely contrary to the past 70 years of American projected dominance which has been the basis of American international superiority and exceptionalism. Entirely self-inflected wound, too, as with all things Trump.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
He closed down the state beaches due to government shutdown and then took his family for a private beach day
There's photos
Also, he said he didn't get any sun and then when confronted with the receipts said "I was wearing a hat so technically I didn't get much sun".
Woooow, dude keeps on lowering the "piece of shit" bar
Edit:
Good lord, the extra details definitely make it more of a shitshow! Thanks for the explanation
Christie and the legislature's Democrats are in a budget standoff so he shut down the government, which means nobody can go to the beaches or parks for the 4th. Meanwhile, Christie was spotted in aerial photos beaching himself like the whale he is on a seaside residence the state keeps for the governor, then he later lied when asked if he had gotten any sun over the weekend with his spokesman saying he didn't get any sun because he was wearing a hat.
Deuce Deuce
Member
Iirc the Dutch system offers a public plan for long-term care and the Swiss require insurers to offer a government backed plan. Even with the improvements in that article, the ACA wouldn't quite be there.
Technically, the ACA's multistate plans could function like a public option since it would be available to everyone and would theoretically have lower rates and tight regulations.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I think he wants to make his approval ratings similar to literal cancer.
http://www.politico.com/states/new-...stie-on-15-approval-rating-i-dont-care-112922
http://www.politico.com/states/new-...stie-on-15-approval-rating-i-dont-care-112922
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Christie is such a shit
RustyNails
Member
Christie is basically Trump if Trump made it through the 7th grade.
LostMyNarbles
Member
Worth noting that only the state beaches are closed and I can only think of one of those at the top of my head coincidentally, the one that is closed to the public is the one Christie took his family to so they had it to themselves. Most of the beaches are ran by the townships and aren't affected by the closures.
Basileus777
Member
Christie has nothing to lose. His political career is over in a few months and he's already burned his own approval ratings to the ground with the state GOP's fortunes alongside it. This is him giving the finger to his opponents and the state union on the way out. There's no actual consequence to this budget issue as it won't go into effect before Murphy takes office and changes it.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Making the penalties on the mandate worse would be the most unpopular way to achieve universal healthcare and would be a way to funnel more money into inefficient and terrible private insurance companies. None of the Democrats are proposing a public option, price controls, etc that would be necessary for this except for Klobuchar's plan to reduce prescription drug costs (which was like, the only decent suggestion. The only purpose of the copper plans Warner is suggesting is to create a new way for young people to give money to insurance companies without getting any real coverage. None of these suggestions except Klobuchar's offer any sort of guidance on how we can stop spending such an absurd amount of our GDP on healthcare to achieve terrible results.
Deuce Deuce
Member
There's already the MLR provision in the ACA to handle efficiency which I believe this is inline with the administrative overhead of Canada's healthcare. The ACA also has helped slow the growth of Medicare costs by tying payments to outcomes.
None of the Dems are floating a public option, but there some have introduced a Medicare-for-all bill in the House. And certainly some have mentioned it in articles and such.
I'm assuming Copper plans would still be required to provide Essential Health Benefits. Low premium, high deductible may make sense to some single younger folks who don't get sick often.
Bringing young people into the plans is a potent force to help lower costs thus the desire to strengthen the mandate. Risk corridors should help as well so insurance companies aren't penalized for taking on sick customers.
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