I am very disppointed here Loxus. No point of arguing with you if you really believe that after all the data we got and after 59 pages of this thread. About this and the "Sony consoles are not custom" odd claims of yours, I'll just say pay attention to what Fafalada patiently replies to you in this thread. He is (or was) an actual developer.
All I was trying to say is that the leak document is full of inconsistencies. I wasn't even saying the PS5 Pro isn't real or it'll be underpowered. But some here got in their feelings.
Unlike in PC, in PS5 the GPU is part of a custom APU, isn't a separate thing. It features multiple customizations, some of them related to the GPU.
As an example, the unique way it increases or decreases the CPU/GPU clock depending on the workload is completely different to how it works in PC.
Another very different thing is the I/O management (which also affects to how GPU works):
As can be seen there, the I/O unit is inside the APU, like the GPU and the CPU and works very differently to how the PC equivalent would work.
In this case, it handles the load from the SSD, decompresses the data, which is compressed in the SSD with Kraken doing the 'secret sauce' with a dedicated chip unit inside the APU and handles the shared memory (GPU+CPU) pool while also performing the memory allocation and management between SSD/memory/CPU/GPU in a more efficient way than the traditional PC one breaking multiple traditional bottlenecks.
This helps to bump the speed of the data streaming from the SSD, from the 5GBPS raw speed of the SSD to up to 22GBPS depending on data type (devs said Cerny they wanted at least 1GBPS). Extra speed and memory management more optimized for gaming helps it to make a better usage of the GPU and CPU resources reaching a bigger percent of its theorical limits than let's say Xbox or the PC "equivalent".
Here Cerny explains part of it:
These two customizations (boost type and specially how it handles the I/O) are the main reason of why PS5 performs the same or better than supposedly superior GPUs as it is the Series X.
Other GPU customizations were the Geometry Engine (handles certain 3D related stuff to optimize some common tasks, and also implements primitive shaders) and the Intersection Engine (used for multiple RT usages or 3D audio).
I think you're thinking of Vulkan, that's an AMD thing that works on PS. Playstations own graphics APIs are GNM or GNMX.
Yes, Sony/Cerny tells AMD the customizations and specs they want and AMD manufactures it.
The IO is completely different than anything was ever available in PC. PCs don't have shared memory pool, chip to automatically decompress the data in the SSD or disc without needing to use CPU/GPU/memory resources on it and related memory management.
PS5 Pro won't feature a $750-$100 GPU similar to something like a 7900 XTX, let's be realistic.
what we pay for GPU's vs what bulk order contracted companies pay for GPU's is not even close
if its apples to apples, 5700xt when it launched was $399. PS5 at launch was $399.
Don't need to. I have more performance than PS5 Pro since last year in my last upgrade. My next upgrade will be even faster.All the PC Elites that are talking crap better save up for your next graphics card
Interesting that you mention battery life because with the consoles working on fixed power limit, depending on if it is a PS3 launch/PS4 Pro 3 sock lead (350watt limit?) or PS5/PS4/PS2/PS1 launch two socket power cord (250watt limit?) I could see power efficiency considerations for an expected always-on PSSR upscaling tipping the balance towards some of those TOPs being for a co-processor NPU just for the PSSR - even if that is at odds with AMDs and PlayStation's general purpose GPU philosophy of making most of the silicon flexible to be capable of being purposed at all times by work.
Of course they consider it a live service because it's a live service. They consider it both a live service and single player, a "multi-genre".
The thing is that in a table where they had in a column a few games that were MP GaaS and in other column a few games that were only SP non-GaaS there wasn't a place for it, it made more sense to include other examples that represented better each column.
It doesn't make sense to think that at all the many GaaS that weren't in the old slides aren't considered GaaS by Sony. In the same way that doesn't make sense to think that all the many non-GaaS SP games that weren't on that slide aren't considered SP game by Sony. That would be non-sensical. They were obviously just slides with a few examples, not an exhaustive list of all the IPs they had inside each group.
I think what he is saying is that based on their collaboration with Sony, AMD will add those features to a later version of FSR making both solutions near identical.
I think this is the most likely scenario unless AMD is being stubborn about not using AI with FSR
I thought of this but the reason i do not consider practical is because the power savings come from the fact CPU/GPU are mostly idle on laptops/smartphones during said hypothetical AI tasks. But during gaming both GPU & CPU are already on full blast so it makes more sense to just add AI units to the GPU than a separate block.
It's meant to illustrate all the console exclusives I picture coming to PS consoles over the next 5.5 years. Even if it's not SIE published, SIE still puts in work and funding to secure a lot of games on their platform. Examples would be Silent Hill 2, or the China Hero project games they're publishing, or the India Hero Project games that're releasing on PlayStation. Or there're some third party exclusives that just seem to be default to PlayStation console, even if no official deal seems to be in place - one example would be Project Awakening which was only ever announced for PlayStation and the studios last game only released on PlayStation as far as consoles are concerned.I really don't know. But I believe this time Cerny will use the concept of dynamic clocks even further and allow some specific modes with higher clocks and likely some parts of the GPU running at different speeds (which is already the case in some GPUs). Second this is a highly customized APU we have here. Wether you want it or not; from PS4, PS4 Pro and PS5 Cerny has increased the number of customizations on those consoles. Remember that Sony is not disclosing all their customizations on their hardware, they don't use that in their PR, the way MS does, and they usually want to hide that behind NDAs. Some custom GPU units exclusive to PS4 Pro and PS5 have still not been disclosed officially for instance. Logically PS5 Pro should be even more customized.
Now they're porting their games to PC which makes a PS5 Pro redundant
The PSSR when always on is effectively an ASIC feature - running on async compute - so it just becomes an annoying workload to schedule in amongst the actual dynamic GPU game code IMO, eating cache bandwidth that could be freed-up and added to performance by having dedicated caches inside an NPU specifically to handle the PSSR workload.
Well you obviously spent over 2k or you wouldn’t even be commenting right now. And absolutely nothing wrong with that if you have the $$$$
First of all, consoles are APU's so not like ur standard gpu in pc space, they got cpu, gpu and memory on one integrated chip, it sacrifices upgrade'ability for being much cheaper and compact+ remember console form factor means heavy restriction on powerdraw, definitely below 250W total for whole system, topend pc gpu can easily go over 400W alone, and oced push to 600W, again just gpu itself.
U are pretty close on the money there.
Good thing I have a backlog... I don't care as long as the games eventually come.
Doesn't change the fact that its weaker than some GPUs from 2020. And that is the fastest a console will be in 2024, a bit worse than the best PC GPU from 2020.
To be pedantic, if we go by the Steam survey its around 89% or so.
Then why does a PS5 Pro thread interest you? If your only objective is to troll the thread with how great your PC is and how the PS5 is a joke, then shouldn't you be off enjoying it?Good thing I have a backlog... I don't care as long as the games eventually come.
Doesn't change the fact that its weaker than some GPUs from 2020. And that is the fastest a console will be in 2024, a bit worse than the best PC GPU from 2020.
PS5 Pro GPU will be mid-range at launch, but then next-gen GPUs launch shortly afterwards, which will make PS5s GPU look like a joke.
Then there's the fact that a bunch of the software on PS5 Pro won't even be able to use the power, run games like Batman Arkham Knight and Just Cause 3 and you'll still be limited by PS4 settings and 900p/1080p @ 30 FPS in those PS4 games which won't get patches
Apologies. I had heard that several times and just parroted it. Serves me right. I should double check before posting about numbers. Looks like PS5 is now 7% ahead of PS4.
Ah ok. GTA VI will definitely move hardware especially if there's a bundle that's the current price of the PS5 on it's own for launch.
At the point where DF/PCMR gave up on championing native rendering the whole comparison started to become moot - even if we further reduce that 10% by screen output technology being the limiting factor - IMO.
First lets see how well can ps5pr0 run the matrix demo or game that is close to that graphics wise, aka stable 60 fps always and w/o visible aliasing, dont care if its 1080p or 1440p or some smart checkerboarding solution
majority of people cant afford those new GPU.Good thing I have a backlog... I don't care as long as the games eventually come.
Doesn't change the fact that its weaker than some GPUs from 2020. And that is the fastest a console will be in 2024, a bit worse than the best PC GPU from 2020.
PS5 Pro GPU will be mid-range at launch, but then next-gen GPUs launch shortly afterwards, which will make PS5s GPU look like a joke.
Then there's the fact that a bunch of the software on PS5 Pro won't even be able to use the power, run games like Batman Arkham Knight and Just Cause 3 and you'll still be limited by PS4 settings and 900p/1080p @ 30 FPS in those PS4 games which won't get patches
Yes, I'm one of them.
I might still get one in the end, to access some games from my PSN account.
$500-$550 GPUs today will outperform PS5 Pro.
And the rest of the system? Or did you steal those parts.
thats GPU alone though.
But a PS5 Pro is not just a GPU
I don’t think there is a single 400 dollar GPU that will be able to match the Pro. Only the 7700xt comes close but even that will be slower in rasterization based on the leaked specs, and way behind in RT and ML. You really need a 4070 at minimum to get a similar experience.
I'm just commenting on the fact people act like GPU prices are expensive, $400 (PS5 Pro equivalent GPU) isn't. And the equivalent GPU will be even cheaper when it arrives.
And the person I was responding to said PC GPUs was expensive, when its really not, when you go for console equivalent parts.
Yes, and console equivalent GPU is pretty cheap these days.
Sony stated 45% better raster than PS5, that would put it right around 7700 XT, if Sony is correct. Its slower than a 4070/3080...
7700 XT will be around PS5 Pro performance. Its $400 today, or on sale, sometimes even cheaper.
GPU prices are anything but cheap "these days". You're listing prices that exceed the entire system.
Very cheap, for console equivalent.
Sadly you are not getting those cards for that price around here (Sweden).
