Support NeoGAF

[Perrott]

Do we think this will be more successful than ps4 pro or less?

I think if they have an awesome demo and show of the PSSR well it could be more impressive than the PS4 pro and lead to more sales.

It does seem like it will be a much better package and bring more transformative benefits to gamers than PS4 Pro in 2016 and throughout the remainder of last generation, and PS5 don't seem to be lagging that much behind the PS4 - and that's been without them bringing out pretty much any of the big guns yet and with Grand Theft Auto VI still on the horizon.

So with all that in mind, there's reason to believe that it should do better than the PS4 Pro, which ended up moving north of 15M consoles.

Maybe.

 

[vivftp]

Do we think this will be more successful than ps4 pro or less?

I think if they have an awesome demo and show of the PSSR well it could be more impressive than the PS4 pro and lead to more sales.

More, and for one very big reason - GTA6

When the PS4 Pro released GTA5 was already 3 years old and had already been out on PC for over a year. When GTA6 drops next year the PS5 Pro will be the absolute best way to experience that game until either the eventual PC release or maybe if Xbox kickstarts their next gen early at some point afterwards. Either way, at a mainstream price the PS5 will be the primary platform for the game and the PS5 Pro at a slightly above mainstream price will provide the best bang for your buck.

On top of that, the avalanche of content SIE will drop in the second half of this gen will be a sight to behold.

 

[DenchDeckard]

More, and for one very big reason - GTA6

When the PS4 Pro released GTA5 was already 3 years old and had already been out on PC for over a year. When GTA6 drops next year the PS5 Pro will be the absolute best way to experience that game until either the eventual PC release or maybe if Xbox kickstarts their next gen early at some point afterwards. Either way, at a mainstream price the PS5 will be the primary platform for the game and the PS5 Pro at a slightly above mainstream price will provide the best bang for your buck.

On top of that, the avalanche of content SIE will drop in the second half of this gen will be a sight to behold.

A GTA VI bundle will do wonders.

Hopefully they can get to 599 on the price for the pro.

Also, I hope you're right on the second half of the gen. That would also be amazing.

 

[vivftp]

A GTA VI bundle will do wonders.

Hopefully they can get to 599 on the price for the pro.

Also, I hope you're right on the second half of the gen. That would also be amazing.

Loading up the second half of the gen is routine now for SIE, so no need to worry too much about that. I know we went over the lists recently, but I still get giddy whenever I browse 'em

As for a GTA bundle, I do think that a bundle would go to the base PS5 so they can shift move units at a mainstream price. That won't stop the Pro from being a highly desirable piece of hardware for that game though, of course.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Wouldn't change much. Astro is 4k/60 on a normal PS5.

A bundle would have been nice.

 

[Radical_3d]

For future reference of the weakness of the Pro’s CPU: the current CPU is already performing better in DD2, being the GPU limited scenarios where the SX takes advantage.

 

[Zathalus]

For future reference of the weakness of the Pro’s CPU: the current CPU is already performing better in DD2, being the GPU limited scenarios where the SX takes advantage.

Actually a good example of API advantage. CPU overhead is a bit less so you see this kind of CPU lead. Witcher 3 shows the same thing.

 

[Loxus]

I know NVidia does this but 'sparsity = fixed multiplier' is incredibly misleading. Not unlike using a fixed multiplier for lossless compression like a certain series...
Anyway I'm also not sure the math necessarily applies - every NVidia GPU since Turing had an exact 2x multiplier on TensorOps vs. RegularOps (ie. clearly there's some sort of execution resource sharing there, regardless of what dedicated 'units' we talk about) - so I'd be more inclined to believe that's what's happening here.

IIRC the leak did reference sparsity but as a separate optimisation - and I've never known Sony to do accounting of things in developer docs - it's not a marketing spec sheet.

It's a fixed 2× multiplier.
Nvidia states it here.

You can see dense Int8 = 2048, then sparse = 4096. Which is a 2× multiplier.

AMD Int8 = 512, so sparsity should be 1024.

1024 × 2 AI Accelerators × 60CUs × 2.45GHz = 301TOPs

 

[Loxus]

One or both could be true. Personally I subscribe to the theory the RT is 'inherited' but PSSR is not. Why? Because Sony has its own IP they use for TV upscaling which in theory could contribute into their own tech running on much faster hardware eliminating the usual TV processing time cost. Im not saying it is the same thing, because obviously PSSR has game centric inputs ala DLSS or FSR, but I think PSSR will utilise a blend of techniques. When comparisons start to be made I predict there will be unexpected results, probably surprising advantages, but at the very least differences that make it obvious its not a clone of existing techniques but has its own distinct characteristics.

The actual hardware itself is derived from AMD and not particularly bespoke to Sony (at least in the core sense, arrangement may be), but the software will be. I also wonder whether the iSize acquisition contributed to the underlying IP in use.

If that's the case, why would Sony update some of their PC games with FSR3?

They seem to be invested in FSR in general.

 

[dano1]

It depends on what you mean by "cutting edge technology" in some ways it is cutting edge technology but it certainly isn't "most powerful" for $500. People are not dumb. They know that.

But they also know For $500 it is the best deal in gaming by far!

 

[Fafalada]

It's a fixed 2× multiplier.

Matrices aren't guaranteed to be half-empty, it's a form of statistical average, not a fixed multiplier.

If that's the case, why would Sony update some of their PC games with FSR3?

The same reason they supported DLSS and XeSS on all of them - they are optimised for what's available for best PC experience.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Do we think this will be more successful than ps4 pro or less?

I think if they have an awesome demo and show of the PSSR well it could be more impressive than the PS4 pro and lead to more sales.

Considering PS5 is looking like it won’t be as successful as PS4 due to a number of factors including Covid, manufacturing issues, wars, economy, recessions etc. I doubt the PS5 Pro sells 10% of the overall PS5 user base when all is said and done especially considering it’s probably going to be in the £600 range (PS4 Pro was £450 for comparison).

PS5 also doesn’t have the 2015 - 2018 line up of graphically impressive narrative games that really benefit from more powerful hardware. Even in a fantasy land that the Pro makes every single game 60fps I think it’s a very difficult sell in the reality of the World in late 2024.

Having said that I’ll be there on day one.

 

[NeonGhost]

Considering PS5 is looking like it won’t be as successful as PS4 due to a number of factors including Covid, manufacturing issues, wars, economy, recessions etc. I doubt the PS5 Pro sells 10% of the overall PS5 user base when all is said and done especially considering it’s probably going to be in the £600 range (PS4 Pro was £450 for comparison).

PS5 also doesn’t have the 2015 - 2018 line up of graphically impressive narrative games that really benefit from more powerful hardware. Even in a fantasy land that the Pro makes every single game 60fps I think it’s a very difficult sell in the reality of the World in late 2024.

Having said that I’ll be there on day one.

But it does have grand theft auto 6

 

[ChiefDada]

Considering PS5 is looking like it won’t be as successful as PS4 due to a number of factors including Covid, manufacturing issues, wars, economy, recessions etc. I doubt the PS5 Pro sells 10% of the overall PS5 user base when all is said and done especially considering it’s probably going to be in the £600 range (PS4 Pro was £450 for comparison).

PS5 also doesn’t have the 2015 - 2018 line up of graphically impressive narrative games that really benefit from more powerful hardware. Even in a fantasy land that the Pro makes every single game 60fps I think it’s a very difficult sell in the reality of the World in late 2024.

Having said that I’ll be there on day one.

PS5 Pro, Sony 1st party developers, and GTA VI response:

 

[TheRedRiders]

Not the best GIF to use considering what happens to him in retrospect lol

 

[splattered]

Found a contest online that lists "Playstation Pro" as some of the prizes at $499 msrp each with a picture of a white PS5 shown. Either they think a PS4 Pro is worth $500 bucks or they just don't know wtf they are doing haha But what if you win a couple of PS5 Pro consoles here? Worth taking a chance to enter daily.

 

[vivftp]

Considering PS5 is looking like it won’t be as successful as PS4 due to a number of factors including Covid, manufacturing issues, wars, economy, recessions etc. I doubt the PS5 Pro sells 10% of the overall PS5 user base when all is said and done especially considering it’s probably going to be in the £600 range (PS4 Pro was £450 for comparison).

PS5 also doesn’t have the 2015 - 2018 line up of graphically impressive narrative games that really benefit from more powerful hardware. Even in a fantasy land that the Pro makes every single game 60fps I think it’s a very difficult sell in the reality of the World in late 2024.

Having said that I’ll be there on day one.

Don't discount the possibility of the PS5 surpassing the PS4. It was on the verge of surpassing the PS4 sales curve until this past holiday in spite of the pandemic. It's a bit behind now, but you also have to keep in mind some factors:

- The PS5 hasn't received an official price cut yet, in fact in many places it's received a price increase. Overall it's still quite a bit more expensive than the PS4 was which was receiving price cuts launch aligned. Even reducing it back to its original launch price would be viewed as a price cut, which they could pull off around the time of the Pro launch.
- The PS4 had its Pro console release after 3 years, whereas the PS5 will have its Pro release after 4 years. The additional sales boost from the Pro might be why the PS4 was able to pull ahead a bit this past holiday and why the PS5 might be able to catch up this holiday, despite Sonys projections (they can always modify them later)
- The PS4 had GTA5 launch near the start of its gen so it had that game to help push numbers the entire gen. PS5 will have GTA6 drop next year which will push a massive amount of numbers and convert from last gen to current gen.
- The sheer quantity of "graphically impressive narrative games" SIE should be releasing over the next 5 or so years will dwarf the output of the PS4 in the latter half of of its gen by a considerable amount.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Definitely less successful.

Nah

 

[TheRedRiders]

I think people will be in for surprise at how well the PS5 Pro sells.

 

[amigastar]

I think people will be in for surprise at how well the PS5 Pro sells.

GTA VI could be a deciding factor to it.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I think people will be in for surprise at how well the PS5 Pro sells.

GTA6 is going to really push units. Depending on how much better it plays on PS5 Pro especially will help determine how well it sells. Also if the Pro is only 100 dollars more than PS5, at that point, why even bother with the standard. Just like most people buy the disc version despite it being more expensive.

When you look at the arc of the PS5 over the next 3 years it'll be very interesting to see how many units it sells

2024 - PS5 Pro release, EA FC releasing exclusively on current gen
2025 - GTA6 release, CoD likely releasing exclusively on current gen
2026 - PS5 Price Drop; PS5 Digital - 350, PS5 - 400, PS5 Pro - 500

If the price drops, I think PS5 will outsell PS4 lifetime by the end of fiscal year 2026 or close to it.

 

[JaksGhost]

If that's the case, why would Sony update some of their PC games with FSR3?

They seem to be invested in FSR in general.

That's due to Nixxes' relationship with AMD and other upscaling companies. Their ports were the first games to receive it while the others ported by other companies haven't been updated yet.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Do you guys think SquareEnix would spend the development time to boost FFXVI performance on the Pro? I have a copy of the game still shrink-wrapped.

Extremely unlikely... maybe when they make the PC version, they may touch up the PS5 version too for the Pro.

Only console manufacturers can get away with pushing outdated hardware advertised as cutting edge technology to consumers, at volume, with great success.

It’s an amazing business model really..

Clearly, you do not understand the console business. You see that outdated hardware you mention... they are cutting edge... FOR $400 CONSOLES. And it should be compared to other consoles or $400 gaming devices. The hot take of your post is akin to chastising every $25k car maker because they do not make cars like an E53AMG that's got a price tag of over $80k.

Or how well do you think a $1000 console would sell?

A GTA VI bundle will do wonders.

Hopefully they can get to 599 on the price for the pro.

Also, I hope you're right on the second half of the gen. That would also be amazing.

I am still expecting it to cost $499. Even more so after the recent leaks. As it stands, the ONLY things they are changing in the PS5pro, is the APU and the RAM chips (replacing 14Gbps with 18Gbs). And then it likely will not come shipped with a disc drive but will support the current PS5 disc drive attachment.

I really can't see what makes it cost $599.

They seem to be invested in FSR in general.

For the PC... and it makes sense to make their ports support everything the PC audience expects.

 

[Radical_3d]

I’m starving for the presentation. September can’t come soon enough.

 

[diffusionx]

Do we think this will be more successful than ps4 pro or less?

I think if they have an awesome demo and show of the PSSR well it could be more impressive than the PS4 pro and lead to more sales.

less successful, ps4 pro was sold as 4k tv device while people were buying 4k tvs and 80% of people still didn’t care. pssr is nerd shit. Slightly shinier reflections is nerd shit.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

less successful, ps4 pro was sold as 4k tv device while people were buying 4k tvs and 80% of people still didn’t care. pssr is nerd shit. Slightly shinier reflections is nerd shit.

But since then Microsoft introduced the Series S and X. They spent billions trying to push customers into this dual experience where you can have the best or the cheapest way to play next gen. Even if Sony does not have some of Xbox advantages, like if I remember it right that sharing games is easier between Xbox consoles(?) the PS5 Pro will probably go with a price cut of the PS5. Then people will probably go for the best way to play GTA 5 and all of Sony exclusives that they have been working since the last 5 years. And with cross gen being even more of a thing, some people who have yet to have a PS5 may decide to go for the Pro, and by the time the PS6 is out, the PS5 may still exist as a cheaper option if Sony decide to do so. For me the PS5 Pro will be there for longer than the PS4 Pro was, have relatively less opposition, and will "fix" some of the PS5 weaknesses.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

PS5 Pro, Sony 1st party developers, and GTA VI response:

I agree but I also think it’s going to be PS6 cross gen time by the time we see the next God of War, Horizon, Uncharted, Last of Us and Gran Turismo. They have said themselves they want one big AAA game per year. This year it’s Astrobot which isn’t going to move the needle on hardware sales so you’re talking Spring 2025 which we already know is going to be Death Stranding 2 (the original was niche and very divisive) and for Winter it will be Venom (which is Spider-Man 2 DLC in all but name) so then we’re looking at 2026 for probably Barlog’s sci-fi IP (which will not be a draw because well… it’s a new IP) and Wolverine (could be a big hit but again I don’t see it moving hardware in any significant way like Spider-Man would). Late 2027 will then be time to launch PS6.

The above along with the change in management and the strategy switch from the GaaS strategy back to the same single player narrative focus which made PS4 so successful is imo why Sony have used the kind of language they have about PS5 like talking about how PS5 is now “in the later stage of it’s life cycle” etc. They also cannot give it a major price cut like previous Playstation’s due to the price of silicon.

They are already planning way ahead to PS6 for when we will see the major big hitters arrive like Spider-Man 3, Horizon 3, TLOU 3, God of War 3, Uncharted 5 and Gran Turismo 8. I think they will make these games PS6 exclusives to encourage hardware sales because making games cross gen and going to PC just hasn’t worked for them. They should be far ahead of PS4 launch aligned but instead are behind. That’s on management (thankfully they changed recently).

This will be seen as a learning and transitional generation in years to come for both PlayStation and Xbox. They both misfired massively but for totally different reasons.

 

[vivftp]

I agree but I also think it’s going to be PS6 cross gen time by the time we see the next God of War, Horizon, Uncharted, Last of Us and Gran Turismo. They have said themselves they want one big AAA game per year. This year it’s Astrobot which isn’t going to move the needle on hardware sales so you’re talking Spring 2025 which we already know is going to be Death Stranding 2 (the original was niche and very divisive) and for Winter it will be Venom (which is Spider-Man 2 DLC in all but name) so then we’re looking at 2026 for probably Barlog’s sci-fi IP (which will not be a draw because well… it’s a new IP) and Wolverine (could be a big hit but again I don’t see it moving hardware in any significant way like Spider-Man would). Late 2027 will then be time to launch PS6.

The above along with the change in management and the strategy switch from the GaaS strategy back to the same single player narrative focus which made PS4 so successful is imo why Sony have used the kind of language they have about PS5 like talking about how PS5 is now “in the later stage of it’s life cycle” etc. They also cannot give it a major price cut like previous Playstation’s due to the price of silicon.

They are already planning way ahead to PS6 for when we will see the major big hitters arrive like Spider-Man 3, Horizon 3, TLOU 3, God of War 3, Uncharted 5 and Gran Turismo 8. I think they will make these games PS6 exclusives to encourage hardware sales because making games cross gen and going to PC just hasn’t worked for them. They should be far ahead of PS4 launch aligned but instead are behind. That’s on management (thankfully they changed recently).

This will be seen as a learning and transitional generation in years to come for both PlayStation and Xbox. They both misfired massively but for totally different reasons.

Several things to address here.

- Sony said they plan to have 1 big tentpole game each holiday, not 1 per year. Prior to that they've stated 2 or more tentpoles per year. This year has games like FF7 Rebirth to act as a tentpole for example.

- The PS6 will launch holiday 2028 by all reasonable accounts.

- There is no indication of a switch away from live service games. A few games either being cancelled for various reasons or not greenlit is not an indication of such, that's simply the nature of video game development. In addition to their 3 existing live service games (MLB, Destiny 2, Helldivers 2) there are still 7 to 9 more live service games still being worked on

- Most major tentpoles released after the PS6 launches won't be made exclusive to that console for one simple reason - Sony will want to sell units of games and doing so on a platform that has a very limited user base like a newly launched console is not wise. As always they will strike a balance with some enticing exclusives and plenty of cross gen content for the first year or so while the PS6 establishes itself, then they'll go fully into PS6 only games. This gen just has an extra year or so of crossgen due to the pandemic delaying things.

- I will bestow upon you my prediction on how I see the next 5.5 years playing out for Sony, which will help to illustrate the tsunami of games I anticipate are about to drop on us:


Ok, current list of how I think the rest of the gen could play out. It's not factoring in any data from the Insomniac hack and just goes with what I already had. This is announced content, leaked, rumored, deduced, speculated and includes console exclusives. This is based on the guess that this gen will go until holiday 2028, and it also encompasses an additional 1 year cross-gen period, so up until holiday 2029. This list is what I think will on the lower end of things and in fact there will be FAR FAR FAR more content in reality, but I gotta start somewhere! Before I was breaking it down by year just to spread things out, but fuckit, I'm just going with the Great List of Viv
(feel free to let me know what's missing)


Concord
Little Devil Inside
Baby Steps
Wuthering Waves
Astro Bot
Neon Koi's game
Spider-Man 2 DLC
Lost Soul Aside
Sword of the Sea
Convallaria
Phantom Blade 0
Lego Horizon Adventure
Death Stranding 2 On The Beach
Jason Blundell's game
Matter
Silent Hill 2 Remake
Until Dawn PS5/PC
Project Mugen
ULTROS
AI Limit
Wolverine
DokeV
Crimson Desert
Zenless Zone Zero
MLB25
Marathon
Neil Druckmanns game (new IP)
Fairgame$
Bluepoints game
Horizon Online game (Guerrilla games)
Horizon MMORPG (NCSoft)
Cory Barlogs game (new IP)
Destiny 2 post-The Final Shape content
Horizon Zero Dawn Remaster
One of the two game-type metaverse titles Jim Ryan mentioned
Bloodborne PS5/PC
Meteora: The Race Against Space Time
Fishbowl
Mukti
Requital: Gates of Blood
Suri: The Seventh Note
Spider-Man smaller title ala Miles Morales (probably Venom)
MLB26
Ghost of Tsushima 2
Housemarque new IP
Gravity Rush Collection PS5/PC
LEGO Horizon Adventure 2 (Forbidden West)
Jak & Daxter remaster/remake of some sort (assuming there is a movie)
Media Molecules next game
Uncharted (ND/VASG collab)
KOTOR
Bend new IP
Gran Turismo 8
Dark Narrative from Firesprite
Horizon 3
Final Fantasy 7 part 3
Ember Lab XDEV game
Sumo Digital game
God of War next mainline entry
MLB27
Havens next game after Fairgame$
Ratchet & Clank sequel to Rift Apart
From Software XDEV game
Ghost of Tsushima Legends 2
Team Asobi game (another one)
Ballistic Moon game
MLB28
Project Ooze
One of the two game-type metaverse titles Jim Ryan mentioned
Project Awakening
TLOU Part 3
Spider-Man 3
MLB29
Physint

 

[Lysandros]

For future reference of the weakness of the Pro’s CPU: the current CPU is already performing better in DD2, being the GPU limited scenarios where the SX takes advantage.

XSX' higher FPS in supposed GPU limited scenes is to be put in context since this version's image quality is lower than PS5.

 

[twilo99]

You see that outdated hardware you mention... they are cutting edge... FOR $400 CONSOLES. And it should be compared to other consoles or $400 gaming devices.

Right, the xss must be out of this world considering it can be bought for under $200…

 

[Radical_3d]

less successful, ps4 pro was sold as 4k tv device while people were buying 4k tvs and 80% of people still didn’t care. pssr is nerd shit. Slightly shinier reflections is nerd shit.

You mean is a tougher sale now that 4K is more ubiquitous and our consoles are pushing amazing 720p games? Ok.

 

[Unknown?]

Yes bad management when you focus all of your first party studios into making gaas games then cancell most of thim and even close studios like London studio because of this strategy that's bad management and you don't think this bad management lol,

That isn't what happened. They didn't have 50% of production aimed towards GaaS. London is sad but they haven't had any hits game-wise since The Getaway.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Right, the xss must be out of this world considering it can be bought for under $200…

yes it is.... can you show me another $200 box that matches it?

you don't get it.

 

[diffusionx]

You mean is a tougher sale now that 4K is more ubiquitous and our consoles are pushing amazing 720p games? Ok.

If the base resolution before up scaling for immortals of aveum isn’t good enough for you, then sure spending $600+ on this will fix that for you, but I think most people are happy with the performance on the games they actually play.

 

[Radical_3d]

If the base resolution before up scaling for immortals of aveum isn’t good enough for you, then sure spending $600+ on this will fix that for you, but I think most people are happy with the performance on the games they actually play.

This is not a machine for most people. This is for the average hardcore gamer and they are not happy. After the inter generational stuff is over the resolution took a steep dive. It’s not inmortal. It’s Alan Wake, Hellblade with Order 1866 resolution, the blurry mess of Rebirth... Are we a lot? No! Are we less people than in 2016. Hell no!! Frankly I don’t care if this thing bombs but I don’t see the reasoning behind it.

 

[saintjules]

More, and for one very big reason - GTA6

When the PS4 Pro released GTA5 was already 3 years old and had already been out on PC for over a year. When GTA6 drops next year the PS5 Pro will be the absolute best way to experience that game until either the eventual PC release or maybe if Xbox kickstarts their next gen early at some point afterwards. Either way, at a mainstream price the PS5 will be the primary platform for the game and the PS5 Pro at a slightly above mainstream price will provide the best bang for your buck.

On top of that, the avalanche of content SIE will drop in the second half of this gen will be a sight to behold.

I mean imagine seeing a gimped GTA 6 on a base PS5. Weird to say it that way when we believe a base PS5 should have been more than enough to run most things this gen.

 

[vivftp]

I mean imagine seeing a gimped GTA 6 on a base PS5. Weird to say it that way when we believe a base PS5 should have been more than enough to run most things this gen.

Who said anything about a gimped GTA6 on PS5? If anything the base PS5 is the target console for GTA6 as that is the device it will sell the most units on at least for some years - dunno how the split will look once the PC version releases. The base PS5 version should be rock solid with the PS5 Pro version building on top of that with extra bells and whistles.

 

[diffusionx]

This is not a machine for most people. This is for the average hardcore gamer and they are not happy. After the inter generational stuff is over the resolution took a steep dive. It’s not inmortal. It’s Alan Wake, Hellblade with Order 1866 resolution, the blurry mess of Rebirth... Are we a lot? No! Are we less people than in 2016. Hell no!! Frankly I don’t care if this thing bombs but I don’t see the reasoning behind it.

yea that’s the point of the question that I was responding to. I think it is less people than in 2016. I explained my reasoning. Overall actual pixel count resolution does not matter like it did even last gen because of all these new techniques that have been rolled out that everything including the PS5 Pro is going to lean heavily on.

 

[Radical_3d]

yea that’s the point of the question that I was responding to. I think it is less people than in 2016. I explained my reasoning. Overall actual pixel count resolution does not matter like it did even last gen because of all these new techniques that have been rolled out that everything including the PS5 Pro is going to lean heavily on.

I agree but those techniques are trash on consoles (see Rebirth) and a proper IA scaling is enough for me to sell the old one and buy the new one. This forum is not a very good sample of the average Joe but it is of the average hardcore gamer and I’d say people is eager to loose sight of FSR 2 and 3.

 

[Rick Dangerous]

Haven't jumped yet on the current gen. So I'm eager to get my ps5pro + 75c89b combo this fall. Can't wait. And i skipped end of cycled PS4 hits to play them on ps5 such as TLOU2, etc.
By the way, what's the definitive must play list for anyone coming from ps4 pro?

 

[diffusionx]

I agree but those techniques are trash on consoles (see Rebirth) and a proper IA scaling is enough for me to sell the old one and buy the new one. This forum is not a very good sample of the average Joe but it is of the average hardcore gamer and I’d say people is eager to loose sight of FSR 2 and 3.

I wonder how many people bought ps4 pro last gen on this forum and how many kept with ps4. I had a pro. I’ll probably get a ps5 pro. I just tend to think about things beyond the forums.

 

[Radical_3d]

Haven't jumped yet on the current gen. So I'm eager to get my ps5pro + 75c89b combo this fall. Can't wait. And i skipped end of cycled PS4 hits to play them on ps5 such as TLOU2, etc.
By the way, what's the definitive must play list for anyone coming from ps4 pro?

Demon’s Souls. Still one of the most next gen looking games.

 

[Perrott]

Haven't jumped yet on the current gen. So I'm eager to get my ps5pro + 75c89b combo this fall. Can't wait. And i skipped end of cycled PS4 hits to play them on ps5 such as TLOU2, etc.
By the way, what's the definitive must play list for anyone coming from ps4 pro?

First-Party

• Native PS5 SKUs
  
  • Astro's Playroom
  • [Coming Soon] Astro Bot
  • Death Stranding Director's Cut
  • Demon's Souls
  • Ghost of Tsushima Director's Cut
  • God of War: Ragnarök
  • Gran Turismo 7
  • Helldivers II
  • Horizon: Forbidden West – Complete Edition
  • [Coming Soon] Horizon: Zero Dawn
  • [Coming Soon] LEGO Horizon Adventures
  • Marvel's Spider-Man 2
  • Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales – Ultimate Edition
  • Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
  • Returnal
  • Rise of the Ronin
  • Sackboy: A Big Adventure
  • Stellar Blade
  • The Last Of Us Part I
  • The Last Of Us Part II Remastered
  • Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves Collection
  • [Coming Soon] Until Dawn
• Enhanced Backwards Compatibility
  
  • Days Gone
  • God of War
  • inFAMOUS: First Light
  • inFAMOUS: Second Son
  • Killzone: Shadow Fall
  • Ratchet & Clank

Third-Party

• Japanese Publishers
  
  • Armored Core VI: Fires of Rubicon
  • [Coming Soon] Dead Rising Deluxe Remaster
  • Devil May Cry 5: Special Edition
  • Dragon's Dogma II
  • Elden Ring
  • Final Fantasy VII Rebirth
  • Final Fantasy VII Remake Intergrade
  • Final Fantasy XVI
  • Ghostwire: Tokyo
  • Resident Evil 2
  • Resident Evil 3
  • Resident Evil 4 Gold Edition
  • Resident Evil 7 Gold Edition
  • Resident Evil Village Gold Edition
  • [Coming Soon] Silent Hill 2
  • Silent Hill: The Short Message
• Western Publishers
  
  • Alan Wake 2
  • Alan Wake Remastered
  • Avatar: Frontiers of PAndora
  • Baldur's Gate III
  • Cyberpunk 2077 – Ultimate Edition
  • Deathloop
  • Grand Theft Auto V
  • Hogwarts Legacy
  • Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy
  • Red Dead Redemption
  • [Coming Soon] Star Wars: Outlaws
  • The Callisto Protocol
  • The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt – Complete Edition

 

[Mr Moose]

Right, the xss must be out of this world considering it can be bought for under $200…

When it's on a deal? Yes. It might be a shit machine but for that price... Absolutely. MS are losing money on each one sold.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Several things to address here.

- Sony said they plan to have 1 big tentpole game each holiday, not 1 per year. Prior to that they've stated 2 or more tentpoles per year. This year has games like FF7 Rebirth to act as a tentpole for example.

- The PS6 will launch holiday 2028 by all reasonable accounts.

- There is no indication of a switch away from live service games. A few games either being cancelled for various reasons or not greenlit is not an indication of such, that's simply the nature of video game development. In addition to their 3 existing live service games (MLB, Destiny 2, Helldivers 2) there are still 7 to 9 more live service games still being worked on

- Most major tentpoles released after the PS6 launches won't be made exclusive to that console for one simple reason - Sony will want to sell units of games and doing so on a platform that has a very limited user base like a newly launched console is not wise. As always they will strike a balance with some enticing exclusives and plenty of cross gen content for the first year or so while the PS6 establishes itself, then they'll go fully into PS6 only games. This gen just has an extra year or so of crossgen due to the pandemic delaying things.

- I will bestow upon you my prediction on how I see the next 5.5 years playing out for Sony, which will help to illustrate the tsunami of games I anticipate are about to drop on us:


Ok, current list of how I think the rest of the gen could play out. It's not factoring in any data from the Insomniac hack and just goes with what I already had. This is announced content, leaked, rumored, deduced, speculated and includes console exclusives. This is based on the guess that this gen will go until holiday 2028, and it also encompasses an additional 1 year cross-gen period, so up until holiday 2029. This list is what I think will on the lower end of things and in fact there will be FAR FAR FAR more content in reality, but I gotta start somewhere! Before I was breaking it down by year just to spread things out, but fuckit, I'm just going with the Great List of Viv
(feel free to let me know what's missing)


Concord
Little Devil Inside
Baby Steps
Wuthering Waves
Astro Bot
Neon Koi's game
Spider-Man 2 DLC
Lost Soul Aside
Sword of the Sea
Convallaria
Phantom Blade 0
Lego Horizon Adventure
Death Stranding 2 On The Beach
Jason Blundell's game
Matter
Silent Hill 2 Remake
Until Dawn PS5/PC
Project Mugen
ULTROS
AI Limit
Wolverine
DokeV
Crimson Desert
Zenless Zone Zero
MLB25
Marathon
Neil Druckmanns game (new IP)
Fairgame$
Bluepoints game
Horizon Online game (Guerrilla games)
Horizon MMORPG (NCSoft)
Cory Barlogs game (new IP)
Destiny 2 post-The Final Shape content
Horizon Zero Dawn Remaster
One of the two game-type metaverse titles Jim Ryan mentioned
Bloodborne PS5/PC
Meteora: The Race Against Space Time
Fishbowl
Mukti
Requital: Gates of Blood
Suri: The Seventh Note
Spider-Man smaller title ala Miles Morales (probably Venom)
MLB26
Ghost of Tsushima 2
Housemarque new IP
Gravity Rush Collection PS5/PC
LEGO Horizon Adventure 2 (Forbidden West)
Jak & Daxter remaster/remake of some sort (assuming there is a movie)
Media Molecules next game
Uncharted (ND/VASG collab)
KOTOR
Bend new IP
Gran Turismo 8
Dark Narrative from Firesprite
Horizon 3
Final Fantasy 7 part 3
Ember Lab XDEV game
Sumo Digital game
God of War next mainline entry
MLB27
Havens next game after Fairgame$
Ratchet & Clank sequel to Rift Apart
From Software XDEV game
Ghost of Tsushima Legends 2
Team Asobi game (another one)
Ballistic Moon game
MLB28
Project Ooze
One of the two game-type metaverse titles Jim Ryan mentioned
Project Awakening
TLOU Part 3
Spider-Man 3
MLB29
Physint

Nice reply and thanks for the clarification about what Sony said. As a PS5 and future Pro owner it’s encouraging to hear.

That list though… oh boy lol. It’s disappointing, eye rolling, exciting and very, very speculative all at the same time. To me Sony have become Nintendo in that there are no longer surprises and you know exactly what’s coming, from who it’s coming from and roughly when it’s coming. The other stuff you listed is either GaaS, indie, wild speculation or things I’m not interested in.

But like Nintendo I’m interested and a big fan of their core franchises so I’m here for it. Hopefully the new Santa Monica IP is something fresh and exciting, Bluepoint hits it out of the park with their first swing and some of the larger studios have multiple games in development we don’t know about that aren’t GaaS or multiplayer focused.

I guess I’m just old at 41 lol. Outside of Switch this generation has sucked so far compared to almost every other gen before it imo and I’ve been playing since the NES. Gas, multiplayer focused, micro transaction riddled, big ridden, unfinished broken messes of games in a lot of cases from the industry at large. I think back to year 2-4 of PS4 and we had Second Son, Bloodborne, The Order (I liked it OK!), Horizon, Uncharted 4, Spider-Man etc aswell as a ton of great single player focused third party games.

I hope at least the Pro brings stability to games that struggle to hit 60 (DD) good IQ to those that already hit it but have awful IQ in the process (FF Rebirth).

Apologies for the off topic discussion.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Nice reply and thanks for the clarification about what Sony said. As a PS5 and future Pro owner it’s encouraging to hear.

That list though… oh boy lol. It’s disappointing, eye rolling, exciting and very, very speculative all at the same time. To me Sony have become Nintendo in that there are no longer surprises and you know exactly what’s coming, from who it’s coming from and roughly when it’s coming. The other stuff you listed is either GaaS, indie, wild speculation or things I’m not interested in.

But like Nintendo I’m interested and a big fan of their core franchises so I’m here for it. Hopefully the new Santa Monica IP is something fresh and exciting, Bluepoint hits it out of the park with their first swing and some of the larger studios have multiple games in development we don’t know about that aren’t GaaS or multiplayer focused.

I guess I’m just old at 41 lol. Outside of Switch this generation has sucked so far compared to almost every other gen before it imo and I’ve been playing since the NES. Gas, multiplayer focused, micro transaction riddled, big ridden, unfinished broken messes of games in a lot of cases from the industry at large. I think back to year 2-4 of PS4 and we had Second Son, Bloodborne, The Order (I liked it OK!), Horizon, Uncharted 4, Spider-Man etc aswell as a ton of great single player focused third party games.

I hope at least the Pro brings stability to games that struggle to hit 60 (DD) good IQ to those that already hit it but have awful IQ in the process (FF Rebirth).

Apologies for the off topic discussion.

I bought PS5 on launch and I'll get the Pro on launch as well, but I have the same feeling. This generation is so boring. I am basically using the console to play multiplayer FPS games and a couple of interesting games, most of which (Witcher / CP2077 / Fallout / GT7) launched last gen. Very depressive state of things and no big surprises so far for me.

 

[Ashamam]

If that's the case, why would Sony update some of their PC games with FSR3?

Huh? Why would PSSR debut on anything other than Sony hardware? It may well come to PC at some point, but it won't be before its well and truly bedded down on playstation.

 

[vivftp]

Nice reply and thanks for the clarification about what Sony said. As a PS5 and future Pro owner it’s encouraging to hear.

That list though… oh boy lol. It’s disappointing, eye rolling, exciting and very, very speculative all at the same time. To me Sony have become Nintendo in that there are no longer surprises and you know exactly what’s coming, from who it’s coming from and roughly when it’s coming. The other stuff you listed is either GaaS, indie, wild speculation or things I’m not interested in.

But like Nintendo I’m interested and a big fan of their core franchises so I’m here for it. Hopefully the new Santa Monica IP is something fresh and exciting, Bluepoint hits it out of the park with their first swing and some of the larger studios have multiple games in development we don’t know about that aren’t GaaS or multiplayer focused.

I guess I’m just old at 41 lol. Outside of Switch this generation has sucked so far compared to almost every other gen before it imo and I’ve been playing since the NES. Gas, multiplayer focused, micro transaction riddled, big ridden, unfinished broken messes of games in a lot of cases from the industry at large. I think back to year 2-4 of PS4 and we had Second Son, Bloodborne, The Order (I liked it OK!), Horizon, Uncharted 4, Spider-Man etc aswell as a ton of great single player focused third party games.

I hope at least the Pro brings stability to games that struggle to hit 60 (DD) good IQ to those that already hit it but have awful IQ in the process (FF Rebirth).

Apologies for the off topic discussion.

There'll be tons of new IP headed our way. From that list if we single out the SIE published new IP (or at least first time SIE published IP), we already know it includes:


Concord
Neon Koi's game
Lost Soul Aside
Convallaria
Jason Blundell's game
Matter
Wolverine
Marathon
Neil Druckmanns game (new IP)
Fairgame$
Cory Barlogs game (new IP)
Housemarque new IP
Media Molecules next game (maybe?)
Bend new IP
Dark Narrative from Firesprite (maybe?)
Ember Lab XDEV game
Sumo Digital game (maybe?)
Havens next game after Fairgame$
From Software XDEV game (maybe?)
Ballistic Moon game (maybe?)
Project Ooze
Physint


That's a LOT of either confirmed or possible new IP there, which leave a TON of room for surprises, even if you only pay attention to the single player stuff.

As for the first 4 years of the console gen, just to note Spider-Man didn't show up until year 5. For the PS5 single player games in comparison it's had Spider-Man Miles Morales, Spider-Man 2, R&C Rift Apart, Returnal + Tower of Sysyphus DLC, Horizon FW + Burning Shores DLC, God of War Ragnarok + Valhalla DLC, GT7, Demon's Souls, Ghost of Tsushima Directors Cut (which included the Iki Island expansion), and notable console exclusives like FF7 Remake Integrade, FF7 Rebirth and FF16 + DLCs. Plus it'll also get Astro Bot and LEGO Horizon soon. There're a bunch more games on top of that, but my point is that the first 4 years of the PS5 has been quite good and that's factoring in the fact that the pandemic pushed back development of many games by 1-2 years. It's only due to the sheer strength and volume of SIEs pipeline that they managed to traverse the pandemic as well as they did.

 

[Loxus]

Matrices aren't guaranteed to be half-empty, it's a form of statistical average, not a fixed multiplier.


The same reason they supported DLSS and XeSS on all of them - they are optimised for what's available for best PC experience.

How you think the 67 TF and 300 TOPs came about?

By using a formula and formulas are fixed.

It's obvious performance varies like the PS5 10TF vs XBSX 12TF but the formula to get those numbers are fixed.

Sony didn't go out and say the PS5 is 13TF just because it's performing like it, they stuck to the numbers they got from using the formula.





It's using RDNA4 WMMA AI Accelerators.
There isn't going to be any major differences that would stop PSSR from running on PC, which is why I believe PSSR is just Sony rebranding FSR on PlayStation.

Sony collaborated with AMD to make the PS4, PS4 Pro and PS5, they'll collaborate again for the PS5 Pro and PS6.

 

[Fafalada]

How you think the 67 TF and 300 TOPs came about?
By using a formula and formulas are fixed.

There's a world of difference between saying
1) Number of Execution Units * clockspeed * bit-depth... = number.
Vs
2) Operations Per second * Magic made-up number efficiency multiplier = Total Operations per second.
The 'formula' using 'sparsity' is the second one - in case it's not clear.

There isn't going to be any major differences that would stop PSSR from running on PC, which is why I believe PSSR is just Sony rebranding FSR on PlayStation.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. Because source code or inference is portable across hardware - nothing new ever gets developd?
Also how do you arrive at 'FSR rebrand' of all the options? That's explicitly an analytical approach (so no inference execution involved) and not using any spectral analysis in its approach. Unless you're arguing that all the leaked information is made up and we should ignore that (but then why are we in this thread discussing things at all - might as well say PS5 Pro doesn't exist).