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[Oblivion]

maybe it scales in a non-linear fashion

why can someone blow up the moon and planets at a power level of 5 figures and below, but power levels over a million can only make Dodger Stadium sized craters

ah, but your power level rises when performing a super attack. so it was probably more like 560 people, a number i can readily believe.

No, cause 1400 was the absolute maximum that Piccolo had while performing a super attack.

 

[hateradio]

That was alright, no extreme high points imo.

 

[Freshmaker]

More evidence that power levels are bullshit. Recall for a moment that Piccilo BLEW UP THE MOON. He did this with a power level of about 1,400. The farmer that found Raditz had a power level 5, so that's about the power level of an average human.

So to blow up a friggin moon, all you need is the power of about 280 normal people.

What.

This is why you approach DBZ from your heart, not your head.

Roshi's power level was much lower and he blew up the moon too.

 

[AniHawk]

maybe the moon just has a really low power level. ever think of that?

 

[ThatObviousUser]

maybe the moon just has a really low power level. ever think of that?

Different moons might have different power levels.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

and while we're on the topic of how ridiculous it is that power levels and advanced technologies aren't consistent, how about when master roshi blew up the moon to stop the giant were-gorilla - did he murder the magical rabbit-man that goku left there with his magic stick?

 

[Cheerilee]

and while we're on the topic of how ridiculous it is that power levels and advanced technologies aren't consistent, how about when master roshi blew up the moon to stop the giant were-gorilla - did he murder the magical rabbit-man that goku left there with his magic stick?

It's okay, I can see their parachutes.

 

[jaxword]

and while we're on the topic of how ridiculous it is that power levels and advanced technologies aren't consistent, how about when master roshi blew up the moon to stop the giant were-gorilla - did he murder the magical rabbit-man that goku left there with his magic stick?

The Moon grows back, that's why Piccolo could blow it up again.

 

[Chinner]

maybe the moon just has a really low power level. ever think of that?

obviously, the moon has no gravity and is not very dense because of it. it also has no water or grass on it which makes the planet lighter

 

[Azure J]

This last episode was too good. I can't believe they played up the Bulma hitting on her son angle as much as they did though. I thought that much was weird watching reruns of the show as a kid. Trunks screaming internally killed me.

Nice use of Battle Point Unlimited by the way.

 

[TCKaos]

The entire point of power levels were to be entirely unreliable for realistically measuring the strength of a fighter.

I can't think of a single instance where there was a power level given that was entirely accurate and that knowledge was then applied to battle in some form.

 

[VariantX]

The entire point of power levels were to be entirely unreliable for realistically measuring the strength of a fighter.

I can't think of a single instance where there was a power level given that was entirely accurate and that knowledge was then applied to battle in some form.

Well, they weren't all that useful in the end anyway. The earth guys had far more control over their power than the average grunt in Freeza's army, considering they'd usually have it suppressed to near zero all of the time and it'd go through the roof whenever they'd go on the attack. Then of course, scouter blowouts pretty much make it pointless after a certain level to even bother once fighters got over a certain threshold.

 

[Link Man]

The entire point of power levels were to be entirely unreliable for realistically measuring the strength of a fighter.

I can't think of a single instance where there was a power level given that was entirely accurate and that knowledge was then applied to battle in some form.

Ginyu?

 

[Keru_Shiri]

Ginyu?

I think that proves his point a bit more. Ginyu assumed that he could gain Goku's higher power level by switching bodies, and was punished as a result.

I do wonder though, why did Ginyu never try to change bodies with Frieza?

 

[Deleted member 102362]

I think that proves his point a bit more. Ginyu assumed that he could gain Goku's higher power level by switching bodies, and was punished as a result.

I do wonder though, why did Ginyu never try to change bodies with Frieza?

Because then he'd have to deal with Daddy-Daddy-Daddy-Daddy-Daddy-*bzzt*

 

[El Daniel]

Because Freeza is a FAG.


Freaky Alien Genotype

 

[The Adder]

Yeah, IIRC, the only "true" android, as in, completely made from parts, is 16. I think that's why he was a prototype...or something.

That whole android saga thing is dumb. How the hell does some dumbass scientist on Earth create things that are more powerful than what the best scientists of a spacefaring galactic federation can make?

That's just fucking stupid.

Why would Freeza allow any kind of research in his empire that could threaten his power?

Why would anyone who has done any kind of research like that inform Freeza they have?

 

[Rentahamster]

Why would Freeza allow any kind of research in his empire that could threaten his power?

Why would anyone who has done any kind of research like that inform Freeza they have?

So that Freezer could be as strong as possible when he cyborged up. Unless they made Mecha Freezer gimped on purpose.

 

[jaxword]

Oh, and another thing about Gero's abilities: He HAD data from Freeza's cyborg form, and had 3 years to use that and improve his androids. 19 and 20 were not stronger than Super Saiyans, so they weren't stronger than Freeza, and it's specifically said 18 and 17 were too strong and rebellious to be used.

This is likely why the main timeline Androids were stronger. Remember that in the Alternate future, the Androids were crueler, but weaker. Trunks / Gohan could go one on one with them for a while.

So it actually makes sense that in the 3 years of using Cyborg Freeza's data that he could adapt and improve. If the Briefs family could reverse engineer Namek tech, why couldn't Gero with Freeza tech?

So that Freezer could be as strong as possible when he cyborged up. Unless they made Mecha Freezer gimped on purpose.

Freeza was floating in space, dying and bleeding and missing 2/3 of his body. They had to get him back together with what they had. They probably worked as fast as they could.

Gero had 20 years to slowly work and perfect his designs.

 

[Chinner]

was there any indication of friezas power level before he was mutilated and afterwards as an cyborg?

 

[The Adder]

So that Freezer could be as strong as possible when he cyborged up. Unless they made Mecha Freezer gimped on purpose.

Why would Freeza ever expect to need to be turned into a cyborg?

 

[GaimeGuy]

was there any indication of friezas power level before he was mutilated and afterwards as an cyborg?

Stronger than on namek, but still weaker than his father.

 

[jaxword]

was there any indication of friezas power level before he was mutilated and afterwards as an cyborg?

No, power levels were gone by then.

It's implied he's able to "exceed the limits imposed by his fully organic form" but this isn't 100% clear. I've always interpreted it to mean, like other androids, he doesn't feel fatigue or get tired like he did when he went 100% all out with Goku and lost.


Toriyama did decide to give Mecha Frieza some extra abilities later:

 

[Verendus]

I always found it crazy how his father is introduced and then promptly killed. We never get to see what he is able to do, or what kind of freaky transformations he has.

 

[Erigu]

another thing about Gero's abilities: He HAD data from Freeza's cyborg form

Dr. Gero's computer did have that data, sure (we know it recovered some of Freeza's cells, at least in Trunks's timeline and presumably in others), but Dr. Gero himself didn't, or he would have known about Super Saiyans as well.

 

[jaxword]

Dr. Gero's computer did have that data, sure (we know it recovered some of Freeza's cells, at least in Trunks' timeline and presumably in others), but Dr. Gero didn't, or he would have known about Super Saiyans as well.

For whatever reason, Gero wasn't personally aware, but that doesn't mean his computer didn't upload the combat data to 18/17 for them to use in combat.

It's possible Gero was busy focusing on transforming himself to cyborg at the time to stay alive and didn't personally analyze everything the probe picked up.

It's also possible it's much simpler; the probe simply left the area after getting Frieza's data and didn't stick around to get Trunks' info.

 

[Erigu]

For whatever reason, Gero wasn't personally aware, but that doesn't mean his computer didn't upload the combat data to 18/17 for them to use in combat.

If that data was used for the "regular" androids, why was No. 19 defeated like it was though?

 

[jaxword]

If that data was used for the "regular" androids, why was No. 19 defeated like it was though?

To keep 19 in check, he didn't have as much power as 18/17. 19 was also destroyed by a Super Saiyan; he likely was weaker than Frieza (no reason he couldn't be). That's part of the reason why Gero didn't want to activate 18/17; he couldn't control them. Which turned out to be pretty accurate.

 

[Erigu]

To keep 19 in check, he didn't have as much power as 18/17.

So... No. 17 and No. 18 were extra powerful because the computer used data from the Freeza fight without Dr. Gero's knowledge, and Dr. Gero knew that they were extra powerful but never questioned why that was?

 

[jaxword]

So... No. 17 and No. 18 were extra powerful because the computer used data from the Freeza fight without Dr. Gero's knowledge, and Dr. Gero knew that they were extra powerful but never questioned why that was?

Nah, 17/18's "infinite energy" reactors made them too strong and disobedient, so Gero switched to the energy-absorbing model instead. The only reason he unleashed 17/18 at all was because he was desperate and didn't expect the Super Saiyans.

 

[Rhomega Beta]

Toriyama did decide to give Mecha Frieza some extra abilities later:

You mean he still isn't dead? Gah, how many lives does this guy have?

Finally saw Episode 33. Trunks is pretty dang awesome to wipe the floor with those two like that.

 

[jaxword]

You mean he still isn't dead? Gah, how many lives does this guy have?

It's from a game; it's just more abilities for the character to fight with. Freeza's deader than dead now that Trunks vaporized him.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

It's from a game; it's just more abilities for the character to fight with. Freeza's deader than dead now that Trunks vaporized him.

"Dead" is open to interpretation in DBZ's universe.

 

[Dereck]

"Dead" is open to interpretation in DBZ's universe.

He died, there is nothing to interpret.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

He died, there is nothing to interpret.

Sure, but he caused a ruckus in Hell and even came back to Earth in GT. "Dead" doesn't mean anything in DB's universe since the "strong" people get to keep their bodies (even the bad guys... for some reason.)

 

[jaxword]

Sure, but he caused a ruckus in Hell and even came back to Earth in GT. "Dead" doesn't mean anything in DB's universe since the "strong" people get to keep their bodies (even the bad guys... for some reason.)

If something seems inconsistent in DBZ, it's likely for humorous purposes.


Originally, Toriyama said that people lose their bodies but certain people get privileged enough to keep their bodies intact in heaven. King Yemma does this, i.e. with Vegeta. However...it's also said that Radditz fought back against Yemma, so that ALSO means that Toriyama decided to change it to "really strong people can keep their bodies, even if Yemma can still decide their fate."

 

[Dereck]

Sure, but he caused a ruckus in Hell and even came back to Earth in GT. "Dead" doesn't mean anything in DB's universe since the "strong" people get to keep their bodies (even the bad guys... for some reason.)

Frieza is pathetic, did you see the end of the Buu saga? Dude was still making monkey jokes about Goku despite him getting killed by Vegeta's son and having been surpassed in power by everyone in the series at that point.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

If something seems inconsistent in DBZ, it's likely for humorous purposes.

 

[Dereck]

Oh Vegeta, what did they do to you?

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Jeeze that's a big egghead.

 

[FairyD]

Roshi's power level was much lower and he blew up the moon too.

Wait how can Piccolo and Roshi blow up the moon? There is only one moon.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Wait how can Piccolo and Roshi blow up the moon? There is only one moon.

The moon was wished back with the Dragonballs. Piccolo just blew it up again.

 

[Sephzilla]

Oh Vegeta, what did they do to you?

I actually like that Vegeta is no longer a super stubborn cold blooded guy and actually blends in with the rest of the gang a little bit more now. You have to figure at some point he needs to loosen up.

 

[Chet Rippo]

and while we're on the topic of how ridiculous it is that power levels and advanced technologies aren't consistent, how about when master roshi blew up the moon to stop the giant were-gorilla - did he murder the magical rabbit-man that goku left there with his magic stick?

They probably died long before that from a lack of oxygen.

 

[jaxword]

They probably died long before that from a lack of oxygen.

No, they spent the rest of their lives making candy for children on the moon.

Alternatively, depending on which continuity you want to believe, they either floated off comically into space or they built a space ship and landed on Earth to cause trouble for Yamcha in one of the games.

 

[TacticalFox88]

I actually like that Vegeta is no longer a super stubborn cold blooded guy and actually blends in with the rest of the gang a little bit more now. You have to figure at some point he needs to loosen up.

As shitty as GT is, I was amused at Vegeta's interactions with the Z-Fighters as he's fully accepted the earth as his home.

 

[Keru_Shiri]

I remember watching that episode where Piccolo blows up the moon for the first time thinking "Was that really the easier course of action instead of just cutting off Gohan's tail?"

 

[Sephzilla]

As shitty as GT is, I was amused at Vegeta's interactions with the Z-Fighters as he's fully accepted the earth as his home.

Even at the end of Z he's a bit more lax and accepting of things. I know there's fans who like his stone cold attitude more so, but I actually liked that he changed as the series went on.

 

[Dereck]

Vegeta was at his best after the Buu timeskip and before GT.

 

[Freshmaker]

Wait how can Piccolo and Roshi blow up the moon? There is only one moon.

Dragonballs say hi.

http://youtu.be/BfxVOam1ZxI?t=2m40s

I suggest you mute immediately.