demosthenes
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Do we know when he's coming back?
The Dark Knight Rises |OT| The Legend Ends (Warning: Unmarked Spoilers Within)
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Do we know when he's coming back?
Razgriz-Specter
Member
flipped them
If Nolan says it's Raz, it's now Raz. If Nolan says Bane is now a revolutionary terrorist, he's now a revolutionary terrorist. DC knows their role.
Bolded. He knew who Batman would want to save, and ensured it wouldn't happen.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I like that whoever Batman chose would be the one to die. Messed up on so many levels. Choose between life or the other.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I consider Final Crisis part of that whole story, and I loved that too. Flash kiting the black racer straight into Darkseid? ILL.
brandonh83
Banned
Man the last 2 minutes of Imagine the Fire on the OST are incredible.
No. Don't think he cared to know, either.
No, though I don't imagine it'll be for much longer.
Hilarious that he was one of the first ones banned but still isn't back yet.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
That's what I've always thought, but I wasn't sure.
I have to say, on every rewatch TDK feels less "like" Batman, and more just like a random movie.
REALLY missing Wayne Manor strangely enough....
I have to say the one thing that has ALWAYS pissed me off about Batman movies that I've tried to explain to my non-comic reading friends is that no movie has EVER tried to delve into the "detective" element of Batman. Whenever Bruce figures something out in a movie it basically boils down to the fact that he can throw money at it. That has always really bugged me. Batman is supposed to be the smartest man on the planet.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
No he didn't. but he knew Batman and Dent cared for Rachel
I thought with the Rachel connection and stopping Reese means he knew but just didn't give a fuck.
In almost every single way.
- A world with a set number of rooms that are re-used and changed in various ways depending on your progress.
- Abilities gained that make you able to progress through previously un-reachable areas.
- A certain ambiance and feel that makes you feel alone and isolated throughout the game.
It's the essential metroidvania formula. And it's awesome.
All he knew was Batman cared for Rachel. That's all he really needed to know.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Unlikely, but Joker doesn't care about Batman's identity. For him, "Batman" is the only one he wants to deal with.
Well, Rachel he knew about because Batman tried to save her at the party. Stopping Reese he knew about because that jackass went on TV stating he knows Batman's identity. Remember, he's an independent consultant, he isn't a Wayne Enterprises employee, so Joker wouldn't necessarily know who he works for.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
No. Reese already said he knew who Batman was, and so Joker wanted him dead. Rachel was because he honestly thought Dent was Batman at some point.
There's detective work in TDK. The thumb print on the bullet, the marked bills in the mob banks, etc.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Was one of my favorite things about TDK.
also when he investigated the address not in costume on the motorcycle, I consider that a semi "Matches Malone" scene
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Joker doesn't know or care. That's pretty much always been the line. Anyone who's made him care has pretty much done it for curiosity .
My favorite display of the Joker's rationale was the one episode of BTAS where Harley manages to capture Batman and Joker has to let him go because he can't handle it not being HIM who brings him down.
Some... but MOST of it boils down to Batman having better toys than the cops. The bullet is an excellent example of that.
That was why I was REALLY hoping Nolan would tackle the Riddler.
My favorite display of the Joker's rationale was the one episode of BTAS where Harley manages to capture Batman and Joker has to let him go because he can't handle it not being HIM who brings him down.
Some... but MOST of it boils down to Batman having better toys than the cops. The bullet is an excellent example of that.
That was why I was REALLY hoping Nolan would tackle the Riddler.
Yeah in fact it was part of his attraction to Batman. He was obsessed with breaking Batman and all his ideals, not interested in finding out who he is so he could kill him.
Even for 2+ hours long movies, there is only so much you can fit. And still Nolan put some detective moments in both movies so far.
In BB:
When he researches Gordon and who to trust vs not to trust
Finding out about the drugs going to the narrows
In TDK:
Fingerprints from bullet
I would even count the whole Hong Kong sequence as detective work
I am sure I am forgetting some obvious other answers.
Is this sarcasm? Solo liking BB more than TDK is like his calling card
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
"Raysh" was always a stupid pronunciation. I can't tell you how much it bugged me in Arkham City.
I thought he would have just linked Batman and Wayne caring for Rachel, and Reese trying to spill the beans. Always read it as implied he knows but didn't act on it.
How would Joker have known that Wayne cared for Rachel?
It's 2012 (or 2008 in the movie...I think, it's one year after Begins which was in 2005, so it's 2006? I'm not a doctor), he's not going to pull out a magnifying glass and smoke a pipe while searching for clues. He's going to use the best tools to do his detective work. Just like Batman does in the comics.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
It's well worth it.
Rachel is his oldest friend, everyone seemed to know they were best mates from childhood etc, so I reckon he would have just pieced it together.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Man I still remember the audience reaction to that perfectly.
I'll look into it.
Seems like a stretch to me. Unless Joker likes to read tabloids I don't think he'd necessarily know that kind of thing.
I'm basically agreeing with Solo here.
Joker knew Batman cared for Rachel. He didn't know who Batman was. At first he thought it was Harvey since Harvey admitted to it and it was known that he was with Rachel.
Even after he found out Harvey isn't Batman, he knew that whoever is Batman, cares deeply for Rachel. It didn't matter to him at that point who Batman was/is, just that Batman would try to save Rachel or Dent and one of them would have to die.
I'll look into it.
That's exactly what I was thinking of posting
Loud audible gasp when that shot came up. I was in awe.
Yeah, referring to Batman, the way Batman threw himself after her. It doesn't indicate that he knew Bruce Wayne cared about her.
I'm not saying I'm correct but Joker's a what, 25 year old man, who talks shit when he says he just does things. He meticulously plans and that's how everything works. When it turned out it wasn't Dent I always thought it was implied that telling Reese to stop meant he just didn't give a fuck who Batman is, but might have known.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Right but the BEST Batman moments are the ones where the tools can't help him. That's the beauty of the Riddler. He tests that element of Batman.
- Joker tests his moral convictions because he can't be predicted.
- Bane is the ultimate physical test.
- Catwoman is usually a villain who blurs Batmans line between good and evil and is good for bringing him too close to sympathizing. She's typically judged on an action by action basis and Bruce needs to make sure to hold her accountable. Her short time in Batman Inc. was priceless. The scene afterwards was awesome.
- Penguin is typically another stand in for the mob.
- Two-face is supposed to warn him of what he can become if something goes wrong.
- Riddler is the one who tests his ANALYTICAL ability. He would have been a great villain for this movie.
I love that shot, it hinted at something bigger, at something the events of BB had set in motion and would not be easily stopped. I also liked the semi-arrogance how Bats brushed it off, and how they continued this in TDK: "one man or the entire mob?"
Yeah, I just need to focus on the story more and do the side stuff later I think.
I think you're missing the point. I know it doesn't matter to him who Batman is, rather that when Harvey was eliminated from the suspects and him probably knowing something about Bruce Wayne because he's one of the most famous men on the planet, that he'd know that Rachel and he used to be friends and therefore perhaps know who Batman is. He just doesn't give a fuck.
Just a thought anyway.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
I also remember Sherlock Holmes trying to copy that with the Moriarty reveal, and it being awkwardly quiet in the theater. :lol
Riddler doesn't seem like an appropriate villain for a finale. If this was the third in an intended tetralogy or something I'd maybe agree.
Nah. This is the final act. This is the epic conclusion. I would have loved to see Riddler, but he's not a final villain. What Bane does in TDKR to Batman and Gotham....yeah, they made the right choice.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Riddler can do that too. Just look at Hush... even with how much everyone hates it....
Riddler tests Batman's mental ability but uses others to do the big explosions.
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