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[Tsaki]

"Traditional console and handheld"

Who would have thought that keeping your digital ecosystem store intact, without redirecting 100% of 3rd party (and 30% of 1st party) purchases to competitors, would be valuable...

So much for the 5D-chess plan of "We'll get PlayStation games through the Steam client on the next Green Sticker PC."
Of course, WC might just have unreliable Microsoft sources. We still remember that December 2023 tweet, Jez.

 

[hemo memo]

That's good. I guess everyone wants a piece of the Switch and Steam Deck pie.

 

[Begleiter]

I don't think this is particularly plausible when the Xbox division is under the level of scrutiny it currently is. I think it's more likely they're going to have a pair of streaming boxes, one that's portable and one that isn't.

 

[akira__]

We all expected this. The new script fresh from MS marketing department is there. PS5 Pro has been announced, they must announce something to tell their customers to be patient and wait 2 others years.

Sources: their boss Phil Spencer

The wait till next year, has now become wait till next gen.

 

[Brucey]

I don't think this is particularly plausible when the Xbox division is under the level of scrutiny it currently is. I think it's more likely they're going to have a pair of streaming boxes, one that's portable and one that isn't.

Streaming box was cancelled they couldn't get the price down to $99 or less apparently. Makes far more sense to include gamepass on smart TVs, fire tv sticks etc and have zero hardware costs.

 

[djjinx2]

I don't understand how they are going to release next generation games on the relatively weak portable hardware and home console. It's going to be even worse than Series S + X!

Arm powered handheld with AI upscaling maybe? With gamepass Ultimate play games in the cloud with RT on ala Geforce Now?

Games like GTA V and Cyberpunk already work on Arm Windows.

Windows on Arm Ready Software

Windows on Arm Ready Software

www.worksonwoa.com

Also having the back catalogue on there will be a big pull for some people as well.

Was this verified as real?

HeisenbergFX4 we need info

 

[GoldenEye98]

It would kinda be interesting though if Microsoft did a more premium take on the Switch.

Like let's say Microsoft did a Switch-like device that was $500-$600 but the docked mode in particular was much more powerful than what a Switch docked mode is doing.

Do you think there would be a market for that?

 

[Dr.D00p]

Xbox has turned into AMD...

Just wait a couple years and our new GPU (Xbox) will be so awesome it will make Nvidia (Sony) drop prices.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

"traditional-style successor to the Xbox Series X"

Its not what I would consider traditional

I have planted my flag there and not removing it

 

[the_master]

Traditional console with exclusives? Like a real traditional console?
Or “traditional” but all games are also on pc and maybe other consoles as they went all out in cloud and gamepass? So the handheld is just streaming?

 

[GoldenEye98]

Its not what I would consider traditional

I have planted my flag there and not removing it

In what way?..

 

[djjinx2]

why would anybody still invest in xbox ecosystem. Especially a handheld

Because they have an interest in it? Because they have friends AND a back catalogue on the platform.
Because they prefer the controller?

I and family and friends have Xbox's, we play games on them. And enjoy them! I must be paid or crazy right?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Arm powered handheld with AI upscaling maybe? With gamepass Ultimate play games in the cloud with RT on ala Geforce Now?

Games like GTA V and Cyberpunk already work on Arm Windows.

Windows on Arm Ready Software

Windows on Arm Ready Software

www.worksonwoa.com

Also having the back catalogue on there will be a big pull for some people as well.

Was this verified as real?

HeisenbergFX4 we need info

 

[Parazels]

Arm powered handheld with AI upscaling maybe? With gamepass Ultimate play games in the cloud with RT on ala Geforce Now?

Games like GTA V and Cyberpunk already work on Arm Windows.

Windows on Arm Ready Software

Windows on Arm Ready Software

www.worksonwoa.com

Also having the back catalogue on there will be a big pull for some people as well.

Was this verified as real?

HeisenbergFX4 we need info

I believe ARM is the only proper way for handheld consoles (end even for home consoles and windows PCs).
Nintendo do it right. The other manufacturers will follow them sooner or later.

 

[StereoVsn]

The whole Steam compatibility thing makes no sense.

They’d lose that 30% cut of third party software sales and would therefore have to increase the hardware price.

This is the issue Panasonic and Goldstar faced with the 3DO.

If they don’t have it then who is going to buy the handheld? They can’t sell consoles in enough numbers, Xbox handheld would have disastrous sales.

 

[djjinx2]

I really hope MS are very open and concise about their strategy going forward. If there is timed exclusivity on all games. Or only some games and some will stay console exclusive forever. Or they are full blown third party with only GamePass being their selling point. Brand loyalty is already at an all time low. So they need to build some open trust for those still interested in staying in the Ecosystem.

How soon is soon
That slide is very interesting isn't it

 

[Gamezone]

Both from what I understand.

How can it be both? Is it running the Xbox operation system along with Windows 11? Or both as in "It'll support PC Gamepass"?

 

[GoldenEye98]

If they don’t have it then who is going to buy the handheld? They can’t sell consoles in enough numbers, Xbox handheld would have disastrous sales.

Steam Deck has sold like ~10% of what Xbox Series X/S has sold....so this argument literally makes no sense.

Again so much of online gaming enthusiast discourse is braindead because it's either reasoning_by_brand_favouritism or reasoning_by_hardware_elitism

 

[StereoVsn]

Steam Deck has sold like ~10% of what Xbox Series X/S has sold....so this argument literally makes no sense.

Again so much of online gaming enthusiast discourse is braindead because it's either reasoning_by_brand_favouritism or reasoning_by_hardware_elitism

It’s not just Steam Deck although that helped to kick off the market further.

It’s Steam Deck, Ally, Legion Go, MSI, bunch of Chinese handhelds. It adds up.

And again, Xbox sales are falling and they are going basically 3rd party. There is no point in Xbox exclusive handheld since all their games are on PC anyways for the most part.

A handheld that can play both PC and Xbox games is the only thing that makes sense.

 

[GoldenEye98]

It’s not just Steam Deck although that helped to kick off the market further.

It’s Steam Deck, Ally, Legion Go, MSI, bunch of Chinese handhelds. It adds up.

And again, Xbox sales are falling and they are going basically 3rd party. There is no point in Xbox exclusive handheld since all their games are on PC anyways for the most part.

A handheld that can play both PC and Xbox games is the only thing that makes sense.

Steam Deck is the most popular device so those other devices sold less....so it's a market that's still much smaller than even traditional Xbox consoles...

 

[StereoVsn]

Steam Deck is the most popular device so those other devices sold less....so it's a market that's still much smaller than even traditional Xbox consoles...

So you think the market Xbox Handheld should address is only Xbox platform? When their sales keep falling?

Who do you think will buy the thing? It will clearly be small percentage of users. If PC handhelds with market of 150-200 mil user base sold let’s say 5-7 mil (add up all the different brands), what would be your expected sales for Xbox?

 

[MisterXDTV]

So you think the market Xbox Handheld should address is only Xbox platform? When their sales keep falling?

Who do you think will buy the thing? It will clearly be small percentage of users. If PC handhelds with market of 150-200 mil user base sold let’s say 5-7 mil (add up all the different brands), what would be your expected sales for Xbox?

Anything they release is not going to sell anyway.........

The Xbox platform is dead and if they try to put Steam on it, then it becomes like any other OEM PC/Handheld on the market. Who cares?

After 10 years of blunders, there's no room or need for Xbox in the hardware market

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

He's just saying things already widely rumored by other sources.

If people followed along here at Gaf they would have known over a year ago Xbox wanted about a 2 year head start on PS6 for next gen

 

[Heisenberg007]

So you think the market Xbox Handheld should address is only Xbox platform? When their sales keep falling?

Who do you think will buy the thing? It will clearly be small percentage of users. If PC handhelds with market of 150-200 mil user base sold let’s say 5-7 mil (add up all the different brands), what would be your expected sales for Xbox?

Yeah, people suddenly think that handhelds is what will save Xbox hardware. It won't.

The answer is clear if anyone thinks with even a little bit of logic ... Xbox already has a very small userbase (~35 million), and they are accustomed to under-the-tv consoles.

If they are given an option to either buy (1) an under-the-tv PS6 console, which will play Xbox + PS games, or (2) a handheld Xbox device (which will only play Xbox games, what would they choose? Which device is closer to what they are familiar with?

And if the counter-argument is that the "Xbox" device will play Xbox + PC games (and that's the USP), then by that logic, Xbox users would have already abandoned Xbox Series X|S and instead bought an Asus Rog Ally X as it literally plays Xbox + PC games and comes with a 3-month free Game Pass coupon.

 

[StereoVsn]

Yeah, people suddenly think that handhelds is what will save Xbox hardware. It won't.

The answer is clear if anyone thinks with even a little bit of logic ... Xbox already has a very small userbase (~35 million), and they are accustomed to under-the-tv consoles.

If they are given an option to either buy (1) an under-the-tv PS6 console, which will play Xbox + PS games, or (2) a handheld Xbox device (which will only play Xbox games, what would they choose? Which device is closer to what they are familiar with?

And if the counter-argument is that the "Xbox" device will play Xbox + PC games (and that's the USP), then by that logic, Xbox users would have already abandoned Xbox Series X|S and instead bought an Asus Rog Ally X as it literally plays Xbox + PC games and comes with a 3-month free Game Pass coupon.

I think Xbox games would be a bonus. Like here is Surface Xbox handheld AND it can also play your Xbox game library so you don’t have to rebuy it on Steam, EGS, etc…

GamePass argument doesn’t work here since you can play GamePass games on any Windows handheld.

 

[djjinx2]

If people followed along here at Gaf they would have known over a year ago Xbox wanted about a 2 year head start on PS6 for next gen

Could be a genius move. But not for $1000+.

A huge headstart with some exclusive games and interesting hardware at a fair price point. Unfortunately I can't see MS being THAT smart

 

[Heisenberg007]

I think Xbox games would be a bonus. Like here is Surface Xbox handheld AND it can also play your Xbox game library so you don’t have to rebuy it on Steam, EGS, etc…

GamePass argument doesn’t work here since you can play GamePass games on any Windows handheld.

But even that would be a disadvantage. Those games would be tied to Microsoft Store, something that people don't touch even with a 10-foot pole.

Anything else than Steam, and PC users wouldn't bite.

 

[StereoVsn]

But even that would be a disadvantage. Those games would be tied to Microsoft Store, something that people don't touch even with a 10-foot pole.

Anything else than Steam, and PC users wouldn't bite.

I would hope since we are taking Xbox and Xbox BC they would have something like an Xbox “mode” (container/VM/whatever) and not Windows Store.

If it is just Windows store that’s same as any other handheld.

 

[BigLee74]

why would anybody still invest in xbox ecosystem. Especially a handheld

Why wouldn’t they?

Personally, I have a huge digital library, I have shit loads of Xbox friends that I game with, their console exclusive games appeal to my taste much MUCH more than Sony’s, I prefer the offset sticks on the controller, they aren’t going anywhere anytime soon…etc etc.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Yeah, people suddenly think that handhelds is what will save Xbox hardware. It won't.

The answer is clear if anyone thinks with even a little bit of logic ... Xbox already has a very small userbase (~35 million), and they are accustomed to under-the-tv consoles.

If they are given an option to either buy (1) an under-the-tv PS6 console, which will play Xbox + PS games, or (2) a handheld Xbox device (which will only play Xbox games, what would they choose? Which device is closer to what they are familiar with?

And if the counter-argument is that the "Xbox" device will play Xbox + PC games (and that's the USP), then by that logic, Xbox users would have already abandoned Xbox Series X|S and instead bought an Asus Rog Ally X as it literally plays Xbox + PC games and comes with a 3-month free Game Pass coupon.

Exactly

It's like the "Sell me this pen" pitch in Wolf of Wall Street

In order for something to be successful you need to create "THE NEED for it"

But ever since the GamePass + PC Day 1 + zero exclusives pivots there isn't any NEED to buy Xbox Hardware

How exactly creating a Steam Deck Clone solves this problem?

How exactly selling an OEM PC like Lenovo, Dell or Asus solves this problem?

 

[Heisenberg007]

Exactly

It's like the "Sell me this pen" pitch in Wolf of Wall Street

In order for something to be successful you need to create "THE NEED for it"

But ever since the GamePass + PC Day 1 + zero exclusive pivot there isn't any NEED to buy Xbox Hardware

How exactly creating a Steam Deck Clone solves this problem?

How exactly selling an OEM PC like Lenovo, Dell or Asus solves this problem?

Yep. The folks who want Xbox hardware to succeed aren't really looking into it logically.

They weren't even talking about Xbox handheld devices before the planted rumors started coming up. Now, suddenly, that's all they ever wanted Xbox to do.

 

[Brucey]

Yep. The folks who want Xbox hardware to succeed aren't really looking into it logically.

They weren't even talking about Xbox handheld devices before the planted rumors started coming up. Now, suddenly, that's all they ever wanted Xbox to do.

Xbox fans want the promise of future xbox hardware. Totally natural. Because the alternative is kinda unthinkable.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I would hope since we are taking Xbox and Xbox BC they would have something like an Xbox “mode” (container/VM/whatever) and not Windows Store.

If it is just Windows store that’s same as any other handheld.

While that may happen, I doubt there will be an Xbox store (especially if the OEM rumors are true).

My guess is that all Xbox-exclusive games will be ported to PC (and that's what Sarah Bond's new team is working on), and Xbox users who previously purchased a game on Xbox will be given the license of the PC version of that game (via Microsoft Store), as Steam would never accept such a proposal.

Then it would be an open Windows-type OS, where folks are free to install Microsoft Store, Steam, or Epic. Much like Asus Rog Ally X.

 

[Three]

I keep asking myself who's their target market for these... other than a handful of 40-year-olds on an enthusiast gaming forum.

Is it just hardware for hardware's sake to keep up appearances?

Do they realize their market is tiny and only make enough to satisfy 20-30 million people?

What's their real strategy here?

Edit: are they really gonna punt the European market? LMAO

They will serve a niche without much of a cost. They're likely to go with for profit hardware for "next gen" with little to no next gen only games (then again with the way they're treating console users, maybe not) . They won't have any retail presence with it either in terms of game distribution and cost would just be a digital store only a small minority uses. It all depends which way they decide to go.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Xbox fans want the promise of future xbox hardware. Totally natural. Because the alternative is kinda unthinkable.

Ironically, it is the alternative that would ensure the survival of the Xbox brand.

No consoles. Full third-party. Have a sustainable subscription service model like EA Play.

 

[djjinx2]

Yep. The folks who want Xbox hardware to succeed aren't really looking into it logically.

They weren't even talking about Xbox handheld devices before the planted rumors started coming up. Now, suddenly, that's all they ever wanted Xbox to do.

Or maybe there are people who like Xbox, and a handheld "intrigues" them?

I love my SD, but would buy a good value proposition from Xbox in a heartbeat.

From the above slide MS are already making a "lite windows gaming mode" too, so the shitty app or store is already a moot point also

 

[Three]

Xbox fans want the promise of future xbox hardware. Totally natural. Because the alternative is kinda unthinkable.

I think there is also a lot of false promises with vaporware that MS uses too so that is a possibility as well. Stops people from considering other manufacturers when they have the hardware about to go on sale and they don't. They did the same with VR too.

 

[mayham2199]

I just don't see how being a third party publisher with a closed ecosystem console makes any sense.

Make it make sense, Phil!

Closed ecosystem sort of forces people to game pass. Open system allows them to get pc deals or even gamepass pc subs which cost even less. I honestly think this is their last console and with that in mind it makes even more sense.

Hilarious to me that judging by a lot of these comments, people haven't been paying attention to the Xbox app on pc.

It's only missing the compatibility layer at this point.

Yea but how does licensing work in something like this? If they become a PC. Not even most games are play anywhere as is so they just going to leave your library behind?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Or maybe there are people who like Xbox, and a handheld "intrigues" them?

I love my SD, but would buy a good value proposition from Xbox in a heartbeat.

From the above slide MS are already making a "lite windows gaming mode" too, so the shitty app or store is already a moot point also

It seems to not compute to people that there are people out there who just love Xbox and simply don't care about playing on a PC or Playstation

 

[MisterXDTV]

It seems to not compute to people that there are people out there who just love Xbox and simply don't care about playing on a PC or Playstation

Sure there are those people, but then why are they getting fewer and fewer??

It seems to me that even blind brand loyalty is shaken up at this point...

 

[sainraja]

You're not really thinking big enough. Let's pretend that, somehow, Microsoft really have found a way to cram a next-gen console into a dockable handheld. No idea how, but let's pretend they did it. So, sure, Nintendo have the closed space, but their Switch successor will only match the current Steam Deck, which is already well behind modern games. Microsoft's entry level PC-console handheld would mean developers don't have to make necessarily custom versions for it the same way they would the Switch successor. Without requiring dedicated support, the device can run every Sony first party PC title, emulate all of Nintendo's offerings, and run all of Microsoft's first party titles, and has access to Game Pass, Steam, Epic, and GOG. Even if it landed at USD$599, that kind of handheld would be an incredible piece of kit. But it requires Microsoft to cram a next-gen console into a handheld. And that'll require a miracle.

And if you think they will offer ALL that, in a handheld, for USD$599 you're dreaming. I would certainly be surprised. Although, if you want nice things, you've got to be willing to pay for it.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Sure there are those people, but then why are they getting fewer and fewer??

It seems to me that even blind brand loyalty is shaken up at this point...

Its something I have been saying for the last year that some at team Xbox is tired of getting stomped at the register going head to head with Playstation and a big reason why they want a 2 year head start on the PS6

They know numbers are dwindling but something is showing them they have enough support to forge on, for now

Will it work for them?

Beats me but I applaud them for trying something different to maybe stop the bleeding

 

[sainraja]

Yeah….. see that last part of your statement? Your money is fickle and they would be foolish to chase your money over mine. You are not invested in the eco system anymore. You could just as easily buy a PS6 and play their games. I’d rather people with your mindset did that than have any say in what the next Xbox should be. You do t even want one. …. Would be a damn shame if they listed to customers like you. You don’t even need an Xbox handheld…. Just by an ally or a steam handheld. But what about Xbox customers. Last time I checked there are still Atleast 30 million of us. And we buy gamepass and everything else they sell vs somebody who just wants a PC and a PlayStation…… we’ll see how it plays out tho. Also…. Console gamers are not PC gamers. This idea that all Xbox gamers are gonna go out and put a spec list together on newegg is a fallacy.



I agree tho… as far as MS messing up, with Xbox…. but they are the only one of the three that can fuck up and still spend money trying to make it right….. last time I checked they just brought the largest publisher in the game and at this point make more money off PS than any publisher. Im not even mad at that. I stopped caring about what is exclusive years ago…. But I wonder how many concords Sony has in them at 400 mill a pop….. I don’t regret spending my money inc box and will continue to do so.

So, they should listen to YOU, someone whose $$$ they are already getting vs him, whose $$$ they could potentially lose? How does that seem smart to you? Lol

 

[ManaByte]

My guess is that all Xbox-exclusive games will be ported to PC (and that's what Sarah Bond's new team is working on), and Xbox users who previously purchased a game on Xbox will be given the license of the PC version of that game (via Microsoft Store)

Yes, that's called Xbox Play Anywhere and it's been a thing for ten years.

Xbox Play Anywhere | Xbox

Play your games wherever you want with Xbox Play Anywhere.

www.xbox.com

 

[sainraja]

Its something I have been saying for the last year that some at team Xbox is tired of getting stomped at the register going head to head with Playstation and a big reason why they want a 2 year head start on the PS6

They know numbers are dwindling but something is showing them they have enough support to forge on, for now

Will it work for them?

Beats me but I applaud them for trying something different to maybe stop the bleeding

Given how much the industry has changed and unless the others make a big mistake like do another "reset" and "restart" generation, then a 2-year head start could help but IMO it relies on that happening and on people willing to move to a completely different platform and starting over unless they do what GOG.com does and check competing platform accounts and honor purchases made there. I guess too soon to say anything and I am speaking of those who have not been on the Xbox side yet..

 

[Moridianae]

Its something I have been saying for the last year that some at team Xbox is tired of getting stomped at the register going head to head with Playstation and a big reason why they want a 2 year head start on the PS6

They know numbers are dwindling but something is showing them they have enough support to forge on, for now

Will it work for them?

Beats me but I applaud them for trying something different to maybe stop the bleeding

I agree that it's time for them to try something new, but they probably only have one more shot at it.

A system as powerful as that slide indicates, depending if it's accurate or not, it is NOT cheap by any means.

If we're talking $1000 for a console, I don't know. It could work for some, but seeing how badly the PS5 Pro got shellacked for $700 has me wondering.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Yes, that's called Xbox Play Anywhere and it's been a thing for ten years.

Xbox Play Anywhere | Xbox

Play your games wherever you want with Xbox Play Anywhere.

www.xbox.com

It doesn't include every game.

And if they are indeed planning to ditch the Xbox hardware and storefront in favor of PC hardware and stores, they would have to create PC versions of those Xbox-exclusive games and offer the owners of those Xbox games a license that they could use on the MS PC device.

 

[Darsxx82]

Yep. The folks who want Xbox hardware to succeed aren't really looking into it logically.

Oh sure, sure, the ones who do speak with authority and logic are those of you who have been wanting Xbox to stop releasing hardware for decades.....

Maybe it's as simple as there being people who want to see MS launching new hardware where they can continue to be part of their ecosystem because that's where they feel comfortable as much as it might be hard for an Xbox hater to understand??

But well, the surprise would have been to see from you an alternative other than "the best thing is for MS to abandon hardware manufacturing and the industry."

They weren't even talking about Xbox handheld devices before the planted rumors started coming up. Now, suddenly, that's all they ever wanted Xbox to do.

False. There have been plenty of people who have been pointing out the possibility and convenience of an Xbox Handheld for a long time. It just hasn't been a topic of conversation and discussion until it has been seen as a possibility and this type of product is on the rise.
'Its funny because we could say the same thing about that rumored PS Handheld and there's the thread where the possibility is celebrated even though it would face practically the same problems and even some inherent to Sony's specific situation

Will it work for them?

Beats me but I applaud them for trying something different to maybe stop the bleeding

It's as simple as that, but it IS hard to understand for certain people wich have been wanting Xbox to disappear from the console/hardware market for 20 years and they tell you that time has come.

The reaction in the end is as expected.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Or maybe there are people who like Xbox, and a handheld "intrigues" them?

I love my SD, but would buy a good value proposition from Xbox in a heartbeat.

From the above slide MS are already making a "lite windows gaming mode" too, so the shitty app or store is already a moot point also

I love handheld devices as well, and I love my SD a lot. My point is that SD is already offering what Xbox could offer and that, too, at a significantly lower price point because Valve could subsidize SD with the very popular Steam store.

The rumors are that Xbox is going the OEM route, which means either one of two things:

• It has a closed Xbox storefront. That would make the device cheaper (subsidized as SD), but it will offer fewer options than SD as users wouldn't be able to download Steam, Epic, or retro emulation games. OR.
• It is open as in users could download Steam, Epic, etc. In that case, MS wouldn't be able to leverage the closed ecosystem to subsidize the device, which means the device will have to be sold at profit, making it significantly more expensive than, say, a Steam Deck.

Neither route works for this Xbox device, IMO. One offers less value; the other makes the device way too expensive than competing devices.

Why would anyone buy that over a Steam Deck that offers top-notch hardware and software.

 

[ManaByte]

It doesn't include every game.

Every first party game that's released has been.