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[Kazekage1981]

MS did such a fantastic job distinguishing Xbox One X from Xbox Series S that people thought the number one place to play 4K games was on Xbox One X!

This is the only successful path for MS:
1) Dismantle Xbox marketing, and go the OEM route
2) Ubiquitous gaming: play games anywhere anytime with full online connectivity, save game progress on cloud
3) Update AI, API tools to make NATIVE ARM, and x86 games simultaneously
4) External Ultra Blu Ray Disk Drive (that reads 100GB disks I might add) for enjoying your physical copies
5) Modify Windows OS for ARM and X86 with a UI for gaming interface

Please steal my ideas MS.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

If this thing is $1000 or more as a mandatory combo of console + handheld, I'm not biting until it comes down in price or is proven a bonifide winner. Dont care about handheld gaming.

If it's a modular system where someone like me can go console only, and any handheld gamers can do their own thing docking it or whatever that's fine.

 

[bundylove]

Microsoft will be shifting to Day 1 support for PlayStation (and Nintendo, in most cases) within the next couple of years. In fact they'll probably start being more openly consistent with it by late next year. That also includes the XGS games because honestly, those and Indiana Jones (and a few smaller 2P partner games) are currently the only exceptions. Everything else is already Day 1 on PlayStation.

That part of the traditional business model is not going to be present with the next Xbox devices.



You're delusional. Features aren't why Nintendo's systems sell, otherwise the PSP and Vita would've smoked the DS & 3DS.

Ultimately, it's Nintendo's own 1P games that are the major driving force behind the sales of their hardware, and they still exercise the practice of genuine exclusivity of their games to their hardware. That's what helps form the base that 3P games can sell their games unto. None of this is changing with Switch 2, regardless of whatever Microsoft (or Sony, for that matter), do with their rumored handhelds.

Also for Wii U's poor unit sales, Nintendo's own games sold extremely well on it. Arguably the strongest attach rates of software relative install base, in gaming history, on average. So Wii U at least demonstrated the size of Nintendo's high-ARPU hardcore/core enthusiasts is very large, and that size has only grown between Wii U and now.

It's significantly larger for Nintendo, than the same market segment type is for Xbox, and I'd argue, even surpasses Sony's in size, too (remember, just talking high-ARPU hardcore/core enthusiasts when it comes to software sales relative install base).



1: Sony would NEVER let Microsoft legally advertise an Xbox device as running PlayStation 1P games on PC, unless that Xbox device is basically being positioned as a PC but for gaming. Even then, it would be hard to predict, considering past history between the two brands

2: Increase (1) by magnitudes for Nintendo, as that'd be Microsoft promoting piracy

3: Any Xbox system still leveraging Game Pass but also providing alternative storefronts will have to roll both into some offering that makes business sense. That's why I've been saying MS will probably do this, but tie alt-storefront access to having a Game Pass subscription of some kind. It's the easiest, most straightforward and most justified way for them to still get a good cut even if Xbox owners shift their B2P purchases to alt storefronts like Steam, and can soft-subsidize the hardware on their end (since they're getting a decent profit upfront on hardware sales, locking in buyers via a Game Pass subscription).

MS would just have to make sure the alt-storefronts can run natively with as little work on behalf of Valve, Epic, GOG etc. as possible and that's where adding the needed Windows code & utilities to Xbox OS comes in. Support for alt-storefronts would also mean MS have to remove the online paywall for non-F2P multiplayer, leveraging alt-storefront access as a way of replacing that type of value. Which could actually also push Sony to remove their online paywall too & find other, more meaningful ways to justify PS+ as a service.

4: This approach isn't going to see them continue the stagger window between Xbox and other platforms. In fact, that will disappear altogether. MS probably has a larger end-goal of eventually getting Windows itself to seamlessly function as a gaming hub (controller-friendly UI and all) and also play games from OG Xbox onward either through compatibility layers or emulation. But for both technical and financial reasons, that would be the end goal of their gaming division, as it'd also mean the death of Xbox OS and probably the end of Microsoft making specific gaming hardware that isn't peripherals, too. It'd also mean the end of a fortified hardware strategy of using their own hardware to push Game Pass and Xbox Store as market places in a closed/semi-closed environment.

The next Xbox systems will have to provide their value through combination of price, performance, QOL user experience and features, and how they can (smartly) bring the best of console & PC gaming together. MS aren't going to leverage exclusivity or timed exclusivity anymore; they want to also grow their audience on Sony & Nintendo systems so that when they eventually (say mid-2030s) finally make Windows a seamless 1:1 experience to Xbox OS for gaming, and thus likely scale back/cease making specific dedicated gaming hardware, they can get Game Pass on PlayStation & Nintendo. But they can't build up the needed business relationship with SIE & Nintendo, or trust & rapport with PS & Nintendo gamers, by continuing with mixed messaging.

Therefore they have to start communicating more like an actual multiplatform publisher, which includes Day 1 support for all platforms, including PlayStation & Switch 2 (bar some obvious exceptions like a Flight Simulator). And that's probably going to finally start happening by late next year. I'd assume, around or shortly before/after they likely reveal the new Xbox system(s) officially.

My comment was related to a very special user who runs his alt account through another user who thinks nintendo owns the whole gaming industry.

 

[HogIsland]

Is there a difference really? All Xbox games are on pc right?

There are major differences:
- can you wipe windows and install steamOS (bazzite, holoiso, etc) on it?

- are there still specifically Xbox builds of games?

- can I use it with a dual sense?

 

[SenkiDala]

I'd love it to be based on some tweaked version of W11 to run my Steam and GOG games.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

they clearly won't have a closed system. IMO

my prediction is this:
I think it becomes more and more likely that they will almost exactly copy the concept of the Steam Deck.

they will probably create a Game Mode for Windows 11 that allows you to boot into a controller friendly environment, but allows you to go onto the desktop to use a normal windows PC.
and that will then be the basis for how their next gen systems work.

they will heavily push their own store, probably offering "Xbox Optimised" games where developers can get verified by offering a mode that uses settings that work out of the box and detect you play on the Home Console or the Handheld like a console game.

this also will probably help improve the presence of their store on actual PCs. all games you buy on your Xbox will work on any PC, work on both their next gen systems, and will seamlessly share saves, achievements, online features etc.

it will finally truly unify their PC and Console games

This is something of an idea that I also had a while ago, and while I think they'll ultimately do something like this, probably won't be for what they have planned coming up.

Like, a Game Mode for Windows will eventually happen where it can be a 1:1 equivalent to the Xbox OS's UI, and running only the necessary Windows code, drivers and utilities for gaming (and some multimedia) tasks. But them then using it to push Game Pass & their own storefront with "Xbox Optimized" games on PC could become a problem similar to how MS leveraged Windows API exclusivity for their own products against competitors like Netscape back in the '90s.

MS don't want to go down that road making that push for what's supposed to be an open platform (PC), even if Windows itself is closed-source. Because again, the antitrust suit back in the '90s established the precedent that MS can't do that type of thing on an open standard like PC even if it's their own OS, since Windows dominates so much of the PC OS market share (especially for gaming).

Even so, whatever they do for the next Xbox devices, will inevitably help with gaming side on Windows proper and could, as you said, also help with presence of their store and Game Pass on PC via synergy.

Pretty much. That's why I'm eager to see what Sony and Microsoft have planned if these handheld rumors are true. Both will be limited as far as what they can run so how do they tackle that? Software solutions? Cloud? It's going to be interesting.

I only see this working if they're not targeting the average Madden Mikey's and COD Joe's with the handheld device. I'm guessing the 'traditional' console is aimed at them, while the handheld is aimed at us neckbeards.

But if the next-gen hardware is going to be priced higher a la PS5 Pro then the Madden & COD players will have even less reason to buy them early on since those games will still be cross-gen for a period, and those types of players aren't completely fussed about having pinnacle console gaming performance. They're on the more price-conscious side and it might take a while for many of them to "get used" to a $499 price drop 3-4 years in as the new $299 price drop.

I'd figure the "console" (PS6 will probably be a fully traditional console business model-wise; next Xbox not so much) would be the higher-priced option while the respective handhelds are cheaper since their portability would appeal to a larger market segment.

I'm actually more curious what Sony will do for the console & handheld because if MS do what I think they'll do (if they're smart about it), then technically Xbox will have not just Xbox, but also Steam, EGS, GOG etc. games to play plus maybe emulators of other platforms (likely not Nintendo & Sony, tho; they might legally prevent that) whitelisted through some version of Windows Store on Xbox. That'd be a good amount of value-add that SIE can't really match due mainly to not owning Windows or running a version of Windows (Xbox OS is a modified version of Windows kernel).

For example let's say Sony's rumored handheld comes around PS6's time (so maybe mid/late 2027 earliest, 2028 more likely); it's $399 and plays games at native PS4/PS4 Pro settings undocked; PS5 settings docked (dock sold separately: $149). 16 GB RAM, has some profile to play downscaled PS6 games via lots of custom AI-accelerated silicon. BC with PS5/4/3/2/1/Vita/PSP via mix of native & cloud streaming options depending on preference and/or performance targets (some emulated PS3 games might not natively run on it that well when it's in handheld/non-docked mode for example).

Meanwhile, Xbox releases their handheld earlier (2026), it's $499. Plays games at native Series S settings, comes with 16 GB RAM. Plays Xbox Series, XBO, 360 & OG Xbox games (at least any made playable through the BC program); also can natively play Steam, EGS, GOG etc. games at Series S profile if user has the necessary Game Pass subscription tier. Price drop to $399 closer to PS portable's launch. Optional passive dock ($99; with GPU and/or storage installed becomes active dock) for official/1P Xbox low-profile GPU cards (sold separately).

Then we get to the console side; PS6 in 2028 probably $599 (512 GB) & $699 (1 TB); 32 GB RAM, maybe a PS5 Pro + 50% in TF (25 - 27 TF FP 32 compute, maybe 30 TF pushing it) but much better RT, AI-accelerated hardware, new accelerated technology (auto-LOD generation/culling based on framebuffer analysis, for example). Disc drive sold separately (new model $69 for PS6/5/4 discs; $149 for PS6/5/4/3/2/1 discs, Vita & PSP discs, legacy PS1 & 2 peripheral support). Full PS gaming family BC support. Compatible with PS portable's dock (sold separately; $149) for some slight performance boosts to PS6 games and maybe various non-essential port expansions (extra USB ports, extra HDMI Out (this one used to send final image from PS6 to TV when dock attached) DisplayPort, extra ethernet port etc.).

Meanwhile, next Xbox "console" releasing in late 2026 (a bit after the handheld), likely 1 TB storage, costs $799 - $899. 16 GB system RAM (upgradable to 64 GB), 24 GB VRAM on the GPU, GPU likely PS5 Pro + 15% in raw TF (~ 20 TF). Support for RT & other advanced features, just less advanced than PS6 in these areas & less custom GPU. No disc drive; compatible with 3P Blu-Ray external (maybe internal, depending on form factor) drives though. Compatible with passive dock ($99), supporting official/1P Xbox low-profile GPU cards (various $$$; with GPU and/or storage installed becomes active dock). Upgradable PSU & cooler. Has some "Smart Configure" BIOS/UEFI-level feature that can automatically adjust clocks and thermal profiles of installed components for optimal performance levels relative PSU & fan/cooling setups. Integrated Windows Store for whitelisted Windows apps; access to Steam/EGS/GOG etc. via Game Pass subscription at certain tier.

It would be very interesting to see how the market takes to both groups of devices. IMO, unless Sony scaled back on their PC support (or nixed it altogether aside from some GAAS titles) they may have more of a problem against this type of Xbox than they'd picture, because MS can leverage Windows and get relatively "hassle-free" support of Steam, GOG, EGS etc. games plus emulators of various retro systems (likely not Sony or Nintendo systems however, due to legal reasons) via extended Windows support through Xbox OS (and for Steam/GOG etc., a Game Pass subscription to make up for some potential loss in B2P sales on the Xbox Store to those competing storefronts). That's in addition to the productivity software Xbox'd be able to run again due to the Windows angle.

Sony doesn't have that advantage and currently they don't even really have a software advantage since they've been porting almost everything to Steam the past four years. If they then also give up the pricing advantage (or just about do so, as we're seeing right now with PS5 Pro and the lack of price drops for PS5 which has in fact seen price increases this gen instead), they may lose out in terms of value proposition that's on grounds easier & more palatable to the market as a sell vs. Game Pass itself has been.

Their only real advantages from that point onward would be timed 1P exclusivity (which becomes less & less of an advantage the more platforms like Steam grow, which the next Xbox could benefit from via running Steam and Sony has ZERO way of blocking Steam on that Xbox if MS uses a PC style business model for it, to avoid directly competing with PlayStation), and volume of production. The latter bolstered in part due to PlayStation's brand strength globally versus Xbox (or Microsoft, really), which naturally necessitates more units of hardware to be manufactured.

Ironically Microsoft could end up, via strategy laid out here (at least in theory), make a product that in a fair/even market would be more appealing than PlayStation (at least current/modern PlayStation) and thus sell more. But, due to their disastrous cock-ups with XBO and Xbox Series, have created market conditions for themselves which will always cap their ceiling much lower than PlayStation's in addressable market, at least for a good while and/or unless Sony just do a series of absolutely monumental mistakes that ruin PlayStation's appeal globally.

Even so, at least taking this approach (plus maybe regular hardware refreshes every 3-4 years and letting OEMs license out variant builds), Microsoft could potentially get back to 50-60 million lifetime trend over course of a generation, compared to the low 40s they're looking to finish out Xbox Series with (while having lost hundreds of dollars on each S & X they've been selling, at that). Meanwhile if Sony keeps to their current strategy of multiplatform & pricing, but do what seems they'll do in terms of a console/handheld approach next gen, they can probably still tap out a gen at ~ 90 - 100 million. But the days of 120 million or higher will be long gone.

 

[MisterXDTV]

The average person doesn’t care how weak the Series S is. They just see that they can get it for under $200 and play 2K, CoD, CFB, etc on it.

Sure, but MS is not making another Series S based on this rumor

So the $200 console is gone

It's more probable that their next hardware is $1000 than $200

So cut in half the current sale number (that sucks already)

 

[djjinx2]

This is something of an idea that I also had a while ago, and while I think they'll ultimately do something like this, probably won't be for what they have planned coming up.

Like, a Game Mode for Windows will eventually happen where it can be a 1:1 equivalent to the Xbox OS's UI, and running only the necessary Windows code, drivers and utilities for gaming (and some multimedia) tasks. But them then using it to push Game Pass & their own storefront with "Xbox Optimized" games on PC could become a problem similar to how MS leveraged Windows API exclusivity for their own products against competitors like Netscape back in the '90s.

MS don't want to go down that road making that push for what's supposed to be an open platform (PC), even if Windows itself is closed-source. Because again, the antitrust suit back in the '90s established the precedent that MS can't do that type of thing on an open standard like PC even if it's their own OS, since Windows dominates so much of the PC OS market share (especially for gaming).

Even so, whatever they do for the next Xbox devices, will inevitably help with gaming side on Windows proper and could, as you said, also help with presence of their store and Game Pass on PC via synergy.



But if the next-gen hardware is going to be priced higher a la PS5 Pro then the Madden & COD players will have even less reason to buy them early on since those games will still be cross-gen for a period, and those types of players aren't completely fussed about having pinnacle console gaming performance. They're on the more price-conscious side and it might take a while for many of them to "get used" to a $499 price drop 3-4 years in as the new $299 price drop.

I'd figure the "console" (PS6 will probably be a fully traditional console business model-wise; next Xbox not so much) would be the higher-priced option while the respective handhelds are cheaper since their portability would appeal to a larger market segment.

I'm actually more curious what Sony will do for the console & handheld because if MS do what I think they'll do (if they're smart about it), then technically Xbox will have not just Xbox, but also Steam, EGS, GOG etc. games to play plus maybe emulators of other platforms (likely not Nintendo & Sony, tho; they might legally prevent that) whitelisted through some version of Windows Store on Xbox. That'd be a good amount of value-add that SIE can't really match due mainly to not owning Windows or running a version of Windows (Xbox OS is a modified version of Windows kernel).

For example let's say Sony's rumored handheld comes around PS6's time (so maybe mid/late 2027 earliest, 2028 more likely); it's $399 and plays games at native PS4/PS4 Pro settings undocked; PS5 settings docked (dock sold separately: $149). 16 GB RAM, has some profile to play downscaled PS6 games via lots of custom AI-accelerated silicon. BC with PS5/4/3/2/1/Vita/PSP via mix of native & cloud streaming options depending on preference and/or performance targets (some emulated PS3 games might not natively run on it that well when it's in handheld/non-docked mode for example).

Meanwhile, Xbox releases their handheld earlier (2026), it's $499. Plays games at native Series S settings, comes with 16 GB RAM. Plays Xbox Series, XBO, 360 & OG Xbox games (at least any made playable through the BC program); also can natively play Steam, EGS, GOG etc. games at Series S profile if user has the necessary Game Pass subscription tier. Price drop to $399 closer to PS portable's launch. Optional passive dock ($99; with GPU and/or storage installed becomes active dock) for official/1P Xbox low-profile GPU cards (sold separately).

Then we get to the console side; PS6 in 2028 probably $599 (512 GB) & $699 (1 TB); 32 GB RAM, maybe a PS5 Pro + 50% in TF (25 - 27 TF FP 32 compute, maybe 30 TF pushing it) but much better RT, AI-accelerated hardware, new accelerated technology (auto-LOD generation/culling based on framebuffer analysis, for example). Disc drive sold separately (new model $69 for PS6/5/4 discs; $149 for PS6/5/4/3/2/1 discs, Vita & PSP discs, legacy PS1 & 2 peripheral support). Full PS gaming family BC support. Compatible with PS portable's dock (sold separately; $149) for some slight performance boosts to PS6 games and maybe various non-essential port expansions (extra USB ports, extra HDMI Out (this one used to send final image from PS6 to TV when dock attached) DisplayPort, extra ethernet port etc.).

Meanwhile, next Xbox "console" releasing in late 2026 (a bit after the handheld), likely 1 TB storage, costs $799 - $899. 16 GB system RAM (upgradable to 64 GB), 24 GB VRAM on the GPU, GPU likely PS5 Pro + 15% in raw TF (~ 20 TF). Support for RT & other advanced features, just less advanced than PS6 in these areas & less custom GPU. No disc drive; compatible with 3P Blu-Ray external (maybe internal, depending on form factor) drives though. Compatible with passive dock ($99), supporting official/1P Xbox low-profile GPU cards (various $$$; with GPU and/or storage installed becomes active dock). Upgradable PSU & cooler. Has some "Smart Configure" BIOS/UEFI-level feature that can automatically adjust clocks and thermal profiles of installed components for optimal performance levels relative PSU & fan/cooling setups. Integrated Windows Store for whitelisted Windows apps; access to Steam/EGS/GOG etc. via Game Pass subscription at certain tier.

It would be very interesting to see how the market takes to both groups of devices. IMO, unless Sony scaled back on their PC support (or nixed it altogether aside from some GAAS titles) they may have more of a problem against this type of Xbox than they'd picture, because MS can leverage Windows and get relatively "hassle-free" support of Steam, GOG, EGS etc. games plus emulators of various retro systems (likely not Sony or Nintendo systems however, due to legal reasons) via extended Windows support through Xbox OS (and for Steam/GOG etc., a Game Pass subscription to make up for some potential loss in B2P sales on the Xbox Store to those competing storefronts). That's in addition to the productivity software Xbox'd be able to run again due to the Windows angle.

Sony doesn't have that advantage and currently they don't even really have a software advantage since they've been porting almost everything to Steam the past four years. If they then also give up the pricing advantage (or just about do so, as we're seeing right now with PS5 Pro and the lack of price drops for PS5 which has in fact seen price increases this gen instead), they may lose out in terms of value proposition that's on grounds easier & more palatable to the market as a sell vs. Game Pass itself has been.

Their only real advantages from that point onward would be timed 1P exclusivity (which becomes less & less of an advantage the more platforms like Steam grow, which the next Xbox could benefit from via running Steam and Sony has ZERO way of blocking Steam on that Xbox if MS uses a PC style business model for it, to avoid directly competing with PlayStation), and volume of production. The latter bolstered in part due to PlayStation's brand strength globally versus Xbox (or Microsoft, really), which naturally necessitates more units of hardware to be manufactured.

Ironically Microsoft could end up, via strategy laid out here (at least in theory), make a product that in a fair/even market would be more appealing than PlayStation (at least current/modern PlayStation) and thus sell more. But, due to their disastrous cock-ups with XBO and Xbox Series, have created market conditions for themselves which will always cap their ceiling much lower than PlayStation's in addressable market, at least for a good while and/or unless Sony just do a series of absolutely monumental mistakes that ruin PlayStation's appeal globally.

Even so, at least taking this approach (plus maybe regular hardware refreshes every 3-4 years and letting OEMs license out variant builds), Microsoft could potentially get back to 50-60 million lifetime trend over course of a generation, compared to the low 40s they're looking to finish out Xbox Series with (while having lost hundreds of dollars on each S & X they've been selling, at that). Meanwhile if Sony keeps to their current strategy of multiplatform & pricing, but do what seems they'll do in terms of a console/handheld approach next gen, they can probably still tap out a gen at ~ 90 - 100 million. But the days of 120 million or higher will be long gone.

Some good theories, but that PS6 price in 2028. I feel $799 is the new $399.

I can't see how Sony loses so badly that Xbox can be number 1 hardware maker ever. But then it doesn't need to

 

[ManaByte]

It's more probable that their next hardware is $1000

This is hopium.

 

[Deerock71]

I can appreciate a company that can piss away billions of dollars like I can appreciate my ability to piss away fluids after I've downed 6 shots and 6 beers, but I might not trust them driving...

 

[twilo99]

I can appreciate a company that can piss away billions of dollars like I can appreciate my ability to piss away fluids after I've downed 6 shots and 6 beers, but I might not trust them driving...

pure poetry

 

[possumarmada]

i am convinced microsoft is going to come out with an xbox branded steamdeck doohickey thingamabobber

Me too.

 

[NeonDelta]

If it's really a PC (unlocked to other oses), I'm interested!

This is my hope too

 

[Deerock71]

pure poetry

I'm glad someone appreciates how much thought I put into these posts; I'm here because I love the fight.

 

[mayham2199]

Yes, that's called Xbox Play Anywhere and it's been a thing for ten years.

Xbox Play Anywhere | Xbox

Play your games wherever you want with Xbox Play Anywhere.

www.xbox.com

Which doesn’t apply to all games though. There will be licensing issues here.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Some good theories, but that PS6 price in 2028. I feel $799 is the new $399.

I can't see how Sony loses so badly that Xbox can be number 1 hardware maker ever. But then it doesn't need to

Nah $799 would be more like the new $499 if anything. And I still can't picture PS6 being $799 (especially if that's without a disc drive). Even $699 is already pushing it for a non-Pro system but if they want to go high that's the highest I see them going.

And even then, there's no telling what mess that could invite for them in the future if, say, regulators want to try making consoles go more open platform. They could try using things like a PS6 charging $699 to make big profit off the hardware as an excuse of them no longer subsidizing hardware, for example.

This is my hope too

0% chance they'll let you install other OSes to it. Personally, I think these devices are going to be console/PC style hybrids and there are very specific areas where MS still want to retain full control.

If they're using these systems to promote the Windows ecosystem, that's one area where things will be fully locked down. No Linux sideloading here.

 

[ZehDon]

1: Sony would NEVER let Microsoft legally advertise an Xbox device as running PlayStation 1P games on PC, unless that Xbox device is basically being positioned as a PC but for gaming. Even then, it would be hard to predict, considering past history between the two brands

Sony puts their games on Steam now. If Microsoft is advertising their new Xbox hardware as Steam-compatible, there's little to prevent Microsoft from showing the Steam interface with PlayStation games present within that interface in their advertisements. I'm not talking TLOU Re-Remake Remastered in an Xbox sizzle reel, I'm talking "Here's Steam on XBox" and scrolling through a list of games, some of which are clearly PlayStation titles. Nature of the game, I'm afraid.

2: Increase (1) by magnitudes for Nintendo, as that'd be Microsoft promoting piracy

Not sure you're understanding my point there. I'm explaining that Microsoft's hardware would be capable of emulation, the same as the Steam deck. Valve doesn't advertise that - hey - install EmuDeck and play PlayStation 2 games, and neither would Microsoft. But the hardware can do it, and so would Microsoft's. Hence the point.

3: Any Xbox system still leveraging Game Pass but also providing alternative storefronts will have to roll both into some offering that makes business sense. That's why I've been saying MS will probably do this, but tie alt-storefront access to having a Game Pass subscription of some kind. It's the easiest, most straightforward and most justified way for them to still get a good cut even if Xbox owners shift their B2P purchases to alt storefronts like Steam, and can soft-subsidize the hardware on their end (since they're getting a decent profit upfront on hardware sales, locking in buyers via a Game Pass subscription).

Not really. Microsoft is deprioritising their hardware, as we've already seen. It's no longer their central pillar. They won't loss lead on a side-hustle, they'll sell their hardware for a small profit. As a result, they can open it up to everyone and also sell their games everywhere else. They don't care if you buy an Xbox, only that you buy their games and services. That's been their direction for some time now.

4: This approach isn't going to see them continue the stagger window between Xbox and other platforms. In fact, that will disappear altogether. MS probably has a larger end-goal of eventually getting Windows itself to seamlessly function as a gaming hub (controller-friendly UI and all) and also play games from OG Xbox onward either through compatibility layers or emulation. But for both technical and financial reasons, that would be the end goal of their gaming division, as it'd also mean the death of Xbox OS and probably the end of Microsoft making specific gaming hardware that isn't peripherals, too. It'd also mean the end of a fortified hardware strategy of using their own hardware to push Game Pass and Xbox Store as market places in a closed/semi-closed environment.

Not sure how you made the leap from "Microsoft's making a next-gen handheld" to "this is the death of Microsoft gaming hardware". Basically, Xbox appears to be moving to leverage Microsoft's dominant Windows platform by expanding their hardware into a PC-console hybrid. They can't beat Sony, so they'll just make sure Sony's titles work on their platform. They don't need to "foster business relationships" with Sony or Nintendo because if either of them make a game for PC, then it'll be on Windows and on Steam, so it'll "just work" on Xbox's PC-console hybrid. If they can pull it off, Xbox will have one heck of a proposition.

 

[Fess]

Feel like a lot these "just build a hybrid PC device" takes are from people who have significant investment in their Steam libraries...probably moreso than even their Xbox libraries(if they even have much of one)

Microsoft trying to placate to an audience who can buy a multitude of devices/PC's to play their Steam library will certainly mean the death of Xbox.

PC gaming enthusiasts are not who Microsoft should be listening too imo...they are not the mainstream consumer.

What would they lose through such a device?

I’ve already left Xbox as a console, there is nothing there for me that isn’t better on PC, except maybe backwards compatibility and the living room experience.

They would get me back through a hybrid PC with a Steam OS like user experience but for both Xbox and multiple PC launchers.

Best way forward would be if they also made a new big screen Windows Xbox OS version that I could install on a PC with hardware of my choice. Locked hardware is always going to be a step back for me now that I’ve tasted PC gaming for about a decade.

As I see it, if you can still play their games there is nothing lost from better syncing it up with PC, there is only upsides from that. I think a Xbox without Steam at this point would be a historical failure. There has been too much talk about it now. There is no turning back.

 

[coffinbirth]

Sony puts their games on Steam now. If Microsoft is advertising their new Xbox hardware as Steam-compatible, there's little to prevent Microsoft from showing the Steam interface with PlayStation games present within that interface in their advertisements. I'm not talking TLOU Re-Remake Remastered in an Xbox sizzle reel, I'm talking "Here's Steam on XBox" and scrolling through a list of games, some of which are clearly PlayStation titles. Nature of the game, I'm afraid.

Not sure you're understanding my point there. I'm explaining that Microsoft's hardware would be capable of emulation, the same as the Steam deck. Valve doesn't advertise that - hey - install EmuDeck and play PlayStation 2 games, and neither would Microsoft. But the hardware can do it, and so would Microsoft's. Hence the point.

Not really. Microsoft is deprioritising their hardware, as we've already seen. It's no longer their central pillar. They won't loss lead on a side-hustle, they'll sell their hardware for a small profit. As a result, they can open it up to everyone and also sell their games everywhere else. They don't care if you buy an Xbox, only that you buy their games and services. That's been their direction for some time now.

Not sure how you made the leap from "Microsoft's making a next-gen handheld" to "this is the death of Microsoft gaming hardware". Basically, Xbox appears to be moving to leverage Microsoft's dominant Windows platform by expanding their hardware into a PC-console hybrid. They can't beat Sony, so they'll just make sure Sony's titles work on their platform. They don't need to "foster business relationships" with Sony or Nintendo because if either of them make a game for PC, then it'll be on Windows and on Steam, so it'll "just work" on Xbox's PC-console hybrid. If they can pull it off, Xbox will have one heck of a proposition.

 

[djjinx2]

I'll just remind everyone of the rumours of playing your Steam games being locked behind GP Ultimate.

A windows "lite" OS with only access to specific apps.

Maybe best of both worlds for those still wanting a full console experience with it being slightly more open.

Adding Steam and Geforce Now for it's handheld hmmmm.

Spoiler

HeisenbergFX4

did say there are loads more perks coming

 

[PatientGamer]

Microsoft knows deep down the only chance they have of superseding Sony in console sales is to release theirs before Sony does.

It worked for a while with the Xbox 2 (Xbox 360), and I can't see Sony releasing a PS6 in 2 years when PS5 has barely gotten out of 2nd gear.

But alas, stranger things have happened in gaming.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Microsoft knows deep down the only chance they have of superseding Sony in console sales is to release theirs before Sony does.

It worked for a while with the Xbox 2 (Xbox 360), and I can't see Sony releasing a PS6 in 2 years when PS5 has barely gotten out of 2nd gear.

But alas, stranger things have happened in gaming.

Without next-gen exclusives this thing will basically be an Xbox Series Pro Pro

Remember Series X launched with no exclusives whatsoever, and Microsoft didn’t drop cross-gen until at least a year later.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I just hope they somehow do something with the Xbox OS to make games run on PC. So you can have a hybrid console/PC. I'm dreaming here and I bet MS fuck it up.

 

[AW_CL]

Either something changes in that regard to the exclusives or it doesn't make sense.

One of the biggest business problems she wants to address is the fact that the Xbox console has been number three in console sales for years. "The last console we built was, by many measures, the best console of that generation," she says. "But that didn't change our market position." Bond wants her team to realize greater success and says that starts by helping them all imagine a different way forward. "I get to help people see that whatever paradigm they think they're living in isn't true—that you can bend solid steel."

Next Level

How Sarah Bond (MBA 2006) is taking on the culture—and the future success—of the gaming industry

www.alumni.hbs.edu

Sounds like they’ve changed their minds

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Microsoft knows deep down the only chance they have of superseding Sony in console sales is to release theirs before Sony does.

It worked for a while with the Xbox 2 (Xbox 360), and I can't see Sony releasing a PS6 in 2 years when PS5 has barely gotten out of 2nd gear.

But alas, stranger things have happened in gaming.

Without next-gen exclusives this thing will basically be an Xbox Series Pro Pro

Remember Series X launched with no exclusives whatsoever, and Microsoft didn’t drop cross-gen until at least a year later.

RetrogamingUK beat me to it in replying the obvious.

The issue is that no one in gaming can afford to launch consoles EARLY anymore, because at this point you can only launch when you have launch titles ready. You would need to stick to planned launch because there is no way the software developers were going to play ball with the moving timeline.

Xbox Series X launch is unusually embarrassing, because they all had giant box art of Halo Infinite on it when the damn game was being rebuilt and missed the launch window.

There is nothing wrong with Series X as a piece of hardware. But Series S held it back on what games can do on it. I have said it many times by now, the only real benefit to an early Nextbox launch, is for Microsoft to cut the Series S loose. But i am not sure Series S owners are going to enjoy being back-stabbed.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

RetrogamingUK beat me to it in replying the obvious.

The issue is that no one in gaming can afford to launch consoles EARLY anymore, because at this point you can only launch when you have launch titles ready. You would need to stick to planned launch because there is no way the software developers were going to play ball with the moving timeline.

Xbox Series X launch is unusually embarrassing, because they all had giant box art of Halo Infinite on it when the damn game was being rebuilt and missed the launch window.

There is nothing wrong with Series X as a piece of hardware. But Series S held it back on what games can do on it. I have said it many times by now, the only real benefit to an early Nextbox launch, is for Microsoft to cut the Series S loose. But i am not sure Series S owners are going to enjoy being back-stabbed.

Not to mention diminishing returns and the perceived slow down of graphical progress.

Wait until 2028, then release something with more power and modern tech for a big enough jump that will create excitement.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Without next-gen exclusives this thing will basically be an Xbox Series Pro Pro

Remember Series X launched with no exclusives whatsoever, and Microsoft didn’t drop cross-gen until at least a year later.

I will repeat something I said a couple of weeks ago

The whispers believe MS is waiting to see if the new COD moves the Gamepass needle and if it doesn't they are looking at some possible big time changes

 

[Ebrietas]

Who exactly is the market for all of the fantastical devices being brainstormed in this thread? Maybe you guys should start from there.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Not to mention diminishing returns and the perceived slow down of graphical progress.

Wait until 2028, then release something with more power and modern tech for a big enough jump that will create excitement.

I believe Nintendo could have launched Switch 2 much sooner if they wanted. But clearly they would be smart to make sure they have games ready to go with it, so any kind of delay is justified to make sure there is launch titles people would buy. I still remember the silly fact that BotW was being sold at larger quantities than the Switch at launch, as in people were buying the game before they managed to secure a console and thus there was more than 100% attachment rate. People were hanging on to a useless game cartridge knowing that they will buy the handheld later. That's what Nintendo hope to replicate.

 

[Sooner]

A handheld and the biggest technical leap ever? So, MS still is blowing smoke up our ass?

 

[Zacfoldor]

I keep asking myself who's their target market for these... other than a handful of 40-year-olds on an enthusiast gaming forum.

Is it just hardware for hardware's sake to keep up appearances?

Do they realize their market is tiny and only make enough to satisfy 20-30 million people?

What's their real strategy here?

Edit: are they really gonna punt the European market? LMAO

I think they realize that PC players will never buy gamepass at scale and stick to it unless they get more value than their money's worth(which means no profit for MS). They need "traditional console gamers" to buy a box and subscribe on that box.

However, the problem is that(I believe as Phil knows) digital libraries are already on other platforms.

I think the two big questions I have are:

1. Will this be platform agnostic(ie can we play steam games?)
2. What is the price(will this be subsidized)?

Either way, I think MS has made clear to a lot of current Xbox owners not to buy another Xbox.

...and considering how much they value Xcloud and how much trouble they have had getting people to care, I don't believe they will pass up the opportunity to make their handheld a primarily Xcloud device, basically just hardware for Xcloud. We'll see though, but if they askew streaming to create a high end handheld like steam deck with local play as the main gaming option, I'd be very surprised.

It would be almost like MS decided to completely reverse course, which I don't believe. They will screw this up no matter how good it sounds because they haven't reversed course and that is just what they do on this course. Screw up traditional gaming in order to promote some new way of gaming where Xbox is relevant.

 

[XXL]

The whispers believe MS is waiting to see if the new COD moves the Gamepass needle and if it doesn't they are looking at some possible big time changes.

Yeah, it only makes sense.

If COD can't move the needle, nothing will.

I could see some major changes, as in Game Pass being terminated, if COD doesn't do something substantial for them.

 

[akira__]

Playstation and AMD have reported signed the contracts for the ps6 already. If the idea of a traditional and handheld consoles are still being discussed it might come in hot.

The rumors have been they might use ARM, is that still a option? Are they building it around upscaling?

If the plans are finalised to late, it will become very difficult for technical departments to get it done the right way, and instead will start from a failing point.

 

[AndrewRyan]

PC handhelds are a commodity. If it plays my Steam games I'm a potential customer.

 

[mckmas8808]

Steam Deck has sold like ~10% of what Xbox Series X/S has sold....so this argument literally makes no sense.

Again so much of online gaming enthusiast discourse is braindead because it's either reasoning_by_brand_favouritism or reasoning_by_hardware_elitism

You are so right. I HATE this discourse because it's exactly what you stated. It's so annoying. The Steam Deck is great. Again, it's GREAT! But people are acting as if the Steam Deck sells 10 million units a year. It doesn't guys! It's a compliment to console and PC gaming. Its not a replacement.

Yeah, people suddenly think that handhelds is what will save Xbox hardware. It won't.

The answer is clear if anyone thinks with even a little bit of logic ... Xbox already has a very small userbase (~35 million), and they are accustomed to under-the-tv consoles.

If they are given an option to either buy (1) an under-the-tv PS6 console, which will play Xbox + PS games, or (2) a handheld Xbox device (which will only play Xbox games, what would they choose? Which device is closer to what they are familiar with?

And if the counter-argument is that the "Xbox" device will play Xbox + PC games (and that's the USP), then by that logic, Xbox users would have already abandoned Xbox Series X|S and instead bought an Asus Rog Ally X as it literally plays Xbox + PC games and comes with a 3-month free Game Pass coupon.

I actually think Xbox has a solid 50 million userbase if it does an average job per generation. The Series generation is just displaying how horrible MS is at this game. They refuse to actually be a good platform holder for many reasons.

I think Xbox games would be a bonus. Like here is Surface Xbox handheld AND it can also play your Xbox game library so you don’t have to rebuy it on Steam, EGS, etc…

GamePass argument doesn’t work here since you can play GamePass games on any Windows handheld.

The minimum price for a handheld device like that would be $600 though.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yeah I don't get it from a business standpoint. Once you are agnostic when it comes to what digital stores can operate and run on your device you are just a hardware maker at that point. That's cool but there are tons of PC devices out there so what's radically setting your hardware apart?

Also once an "Xbox" can play games PC games...you've just incentivized every developer to stop making an Xbox version of the game imo.

This seems like a great way for Microsoft to take it's current ~30M traditional console market....to I dunno 5M at best?

VERY well said! There's this lack of thinking and understanding what the gaming industry is and how it works. On paper this Xbox handheld that plays all Steam games sounds cool, but it just doesn't make business sense for Microsoft as a corporation. Will it come with 2 free years of GamePass or something? Like I don't get this.

They're getting positioned for the future in 10-15 years. No one knows how fast it will arrive. In that future, lots of people will play on cloud, mobile / handheld, and a shrinking number of people will have dedicated local hardware. They'll make it and sell it for a profit if you want it, but if people don't want to buy it, they're not losing money on it anyway. It'll be a niche market. Most people can't really even imagine what a PS7 will look like, or even confidently say it will for sure exist.

We heard all this before. In 2012 people were confident the PS5\Xbox Series generation wouldn't exist. Yet here we are with the full understanding that a PS6 will release around 2028. That's 16 full years AFTER people said the PS4 would be the last console generation.

Think about that for a second and ask yourself why consoles are still in demand and being made. And ask yourself why the "media" was so wrong in 2012.

 

[StereoVsn]

The minimum price for a handheld device like that would be $600 though.

Yep, it would be somewhere between $550 and $700 depending on MS willingness to live with very low or non existent profit margins.

If Surface team is involved, $600-700 (or higher) seems very likely. Thing is there is no point in the device otherwise since it’s either going to be super underpowered or people would just buy the Deck or next Ally/Lenovo.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yep, it would be somewhere between $550 and $700 depending on MS willingness to live with very low or non existent profit margins.

If Surface team is involved, $600-700 (or higher) seems very likely. Thing is there is no point in the device otherwise since it’s either going to be super underpowered or people would just buy the Deck or next Ally/Lenovo.

And imagine if they include a dock to support TV gaming? That'll probably raise the price another $50-100 depending on MS.

 

[NickFire]

I think it makes sense to keep handheld completely separate from a more traditional console (or pc-console hybrid). I don't think the Switch model will translate well for the COD, Madden, 2k, GTA crowds very well, and MS needs to keep those crowds invested.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

And imagine if they include a dock to support TV gaming? That'll probably raise the price another $50-100 depending on MS.

The dockable will be the affordable one

 

[StereoVsn]

And imagine if they include a dock to support TV gaming? That'll probably raise the price another $50-100 depending on MS.

Have you seen prices for Surface docks? . If it’s only $100, that would be on the cheap side.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

Release a good halo game everyone will come along.

That's a lot to ask from 343i...

 

[AJUMP23]

That's a lot to ask from 343i...

I probably would not ask them

 

[mckmas8808]

The dockable will be the affordable one

The affordable handheld?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

The affordable handheld?

It will be more affordable than the other one thats coming

 

[demigod]

I will repeat something I said a couple of weeks ago

The whispers believe MS is waiting to see if the new COD moves the Gamepass needle and if it doesn't they are looking at some possible big time changes

How big of a needle?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

How big of a needle?

 

[Three]

Yeah, it only makes sense.

If COD can't move the needle, nothing will.

I could see some major changes, as in Game Pass being terminated, if COD doesn't do something substantial for them.

There is no way they terminate gamepass. It's more likely that they make the library shit slowly and remove games they think they can sell while still charging $15-20 per month. They kind of already did this this year anyway. They wouldn't get rid of reoccurring payments to them just on COD not moving the needle. They'd want you to make that decision to stop payments and to put it off for as long as possible, why would they make that decision for you?

 

[Brucey]

The affordable handheld?

Here's what the Surface team have been up to:

But Surface sales and revenue have been dropping significantly over the last couple years as well:

Is Microsoft's Surface lineup in danger of being discontinued altogether?

Sales for Microsoft Surface are dipping, and the passionate leader behind the brand left Microsoft. Is it time to start worrying about the future?

www.xda-developers.com

A high end portable and halo "Xbox PC" type product could well try and leverage the Surface branding and give it a little last gasp boost as it isn't as toxic as Xbox. $750 and $1500?

 

[XXL]

There is no way they terminate gamepass. It's more likely that they make the library shit slowly and remove games they think they can sell while still charging $15-20 per month. They kind of already did this this year anyway. They wouldn't get rid of reoccurring payments to them just on COD not moving the needle. They'd want you to make that decision to stop payments and to put it off for as long as possible, why would they make that decision for you?

Sorry I should have clarified.

I meant the termination of its current form, as in no Day 1 games after COD.

I will say...if they aren't making another console, I could see them stopping it entirely.