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[Kai Dracon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcOgwJ9uAMQ

...I think I miss George W. Bush.

There was never much wrong with W. Bush. He was goofy yet reasonably principled, and basically used as a front man for the schemers behind the scenes actually running things. The hate and mockery aimed at his personal self was probably mostly undeserved, but expected since he literally was a decoy to distract people's attention.

 

[Balphon]

There was never much wrong with W. Bush. He was goofy yet reasonably principled, and basically used as a front man for the schemers behind the scenes actually running things. The hate and mockery aimed at his personal self was probably mostly undeserved, but expected since he literally was a decoy to distract people's attention.

Yeah, it's easy to lose track of the man behind the caricature.

Even if his policy didn't back up the rhetoric, it's still incredibly jarring to look at the GOP where it is today and yet remember that the last Republican President came out and said Islam is peace less than a week after 9/11.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Yeah, it's easy to lose track of the man behind the caricature.

Even if his policy didn't back up the rhetoric, it's still incredibly jarring to look at the GOP where it is today and yet remember that the last Republican President came out and said Islam is peace less than a week after 9/11.

Yeah, sure, and then he proceeded to invade Iraq under false pretenses and commit war crimes, fucking everything up. He doesn't get to play the puppet card, no matter who was behind the curtain. (He also supported an amendment to the Constitution that would ban gay marriage)

 

[i_am_ben]

Yeah, sure, and then he proceeded to invade Iraq under false pretenses and commit war crimes, fucking everything up. He doesn't get to play the puppet card, no matter who was behind the curtain. (He also supported an amendment to the Constitution that would ban gay marriage)

Well to be fair he never said Christianity was the religion of peace.

 

[Cipherr]

My camp is to have the democratic party represent everyone, not to try and win over white folks with bullshit rhetoric with a left tilt. I don't like where we are going. But I'm willing to see how it unfolds.

Amen.

 

[Pixieking]

Experts Urge Clinton Campaign to Challenge Election Results in 3 Swing States

Hillary Clinton is being urged by a group of prominent computer scientists and election lawyers to call for a recount in three swing states won by Donald Trump, New York has learned. The group, which includes voting-rights attorney John Bonifaz and J. Alex Halderman, the director of the University of Michigan Center for Computer Security and Society, believes they’ve found persuasive evidence that results in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania may have been manipulated or hacked. The group is so far not speaking on the record about their findings and is focused on lobbying the Clinton team in private.

 

[chadskin]

Sad that the UN ambassador post is about to become an internship for a SC governor with no foreign policy expertise and no experience in international diplomacy whatsoever.

This ought to be an interesting grilling in the Senate.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Experts Urge Clinton Campaign to Challenge Election Results in 3 Swing States

Can the left stop with the rigging claims

 

[Aaron Strife]

http://professorwatchlist.org/index.php/about-us

Cool so this is a thing

 

[chadskin]

Can the left stop with the rigging claims

Halderman is a highly respected computer security researcher, I certainly wouldn't dismiss this so easily.

 

[Pixieking]

Can the left stop with the rigging claims

Generic rigging claims should be given no quarter. But a group that includes a voting rights lawyer and computer security researcher should be wholly supported in attempting to ascertain questionable activity. I have no doubt that Hillary has lost the states in question, but any irregularities ought to be checked, both for the legitimacy of this election, and for future elections.

 

[Plinko]

She's a lady. America ain't ready for that shit.

Except Oprah Winfrey would absolutely nail it. It's not a lady thing.

 

[nature boy]

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

She's a lady. America ain't ready for that shit.

We magically will be one or two terms from now, trust that. Thanks for taking one for the team, Hil.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Halderman is a highly respected computer security researcher, I certainly wouldn't dismiss this so easily.

Generic rigging claims should be given no quarter. But a group that includes a voting rights lawyer and computer security researcher should be wholly supported in attempting to ascertain questionable activity. I have no doubt that Hillary has lost the states in question, but any irregularities ought to be checked, both for the legitimacy of this election, and for future elections.

The whole analysis here is that Clinton received less votes where electronic machines were used. That is simply because rural counties used electronic machines while urban centres used paper ballots.

 

[Tarkus]

Guys I need help. I came across this facebook group and I don't know what to do.

Tell them the hips don't lie

 

[Pixieking]

The whole analysis here is that Clinton received less votes where electronic machines were used. That is simply because rural counties used electronic machines while urban centres used paper ballots.

In which case, letting it play out like this does no harm - an official statement could be made by either the group, or the Clinton campaign saying the above. It closes off speculation about the irregularities, and the general public can't question a statement that comes from either the group concerned, or the campaign. *shrugs*

 

[CygnusXS]

That could look real stupid in history textbooks printed 60 years from now.

 

[The Chosen One]

When Obama was giving away the Medal of Freedoms, was he basically just riffing the whole time? I didn't see him reading from a teleprompter, reading notes, or anything. Looked like he was having fun. I though it was hilarious that he referenced the Michael Jordan crying meme. :lol

 

[Aaron Strife]

When Obama was giving away the Medal of Freedoms, was he basically just riffing the whole time? I didn't see him reading from a teleprompter, reading notes, or anything. Looked like he was having fun. I though it was hilarious that he referenced the Michael Jordan crying meme. :lol

I wonder how much interneting Obama does.

In fact he's probably on GAF. Fess up. Maybe he was PD the whole time.

 

[metalslimer]

I wonder how much interneting Obama does.

In fact he's probably on GAF. Fess up. Maybe he was PD the whole time.

Surprise he was huelen all along.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Surprise he was huelen all along.

"I base my decision on what benefits me the most"

The fix was in

 

[neurosisxeno]

If so why don't we just put him on ignore for a while? Things will change drastically by the time it's time for the next presidential campaign.

Because he's the most popular member of the Democratic Party (alongside Obama and Warren) right now. You can shit on Sanders all you want, but he didn't lose Hillary the election, and people want a reformed Democratic Party that isnt run by the same revolving door of insiders. Nobody who was buddy-buddy with Hillary is going to get taken seriously going forward, that's just the way it is.

Ideally what we need is an openly Liberal dedicated DNC chairman to focus on flipping some of these embarrassingly stacked state legislatures so the Republicans don't get to the point of being able to call a damn Constitutional Convention before Democrats stop being a bunch of pussies and fight back.

 

[kirblar]

Because he's the most popular member of the Democratic Party (alongside Obama and Warren) right now. You can shit on Sanders all you want, but he didn't lose Hillary the election, and people want a reformed Democratic Party that isnt run by the same revolving door of insiders. Nobody who was buddy-buddy with Hillary is going to get taken seriously going forward, that's just the way it is.

Ideally what we need is an openly Liberal dedicated DNC chairman to focus on flipping some of these embarrassingly stacked state legislatures so the Republicans don't get to the point of being able to call a damn Constitutional Convention before Democrats stop being a bunch of pussies and fight back.

These "people" are not the party base.

Change is needed, but Sanders is not the way forward.

 

[lyrick]

These "people" are not the party base.

Change is needed, but Sanders is not the way forward.

People seem to forget that Sanders is NOT part of the Democratic party. The point has been made a few times that Sanders will return to the senate as an independent.

 

[metalslimer]

To be quite frank it really doesn't matter what the next DNC chair's political ideology is.

Also let's not forget Sanders was rejected by the Democratic party. Just because Hilary lost does not mean that Bernie is now our leader by default.

 

[neurosisxeno]

These "people" are not the party base.

Change is needed, but Sanders is not the way forward.

Well the party base didn't win us jack shit so maybe stop depending on them so much and look to expand the base. I said the same thing during primaries and got shouted down, but it's the truth.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

People are going back into their bubbles with Sanders v. Clinton

STUPID

 

[dramatis]

Because he's the most popular member of the Democratic Party (alongside Obama and Warren) right now. You can shit on Sanders all you want, but he didn't lose Hillary the election, and people want a reformed Democratic Party that isnt run by the same revolving door of insiders. Nobody who was buddy-buddy with Hillary is going to get taken seriously going forward, that's just the way it is.

Ideally what we need is an openly Liberal dedicated DNC chairman to focus on flipping some of these embarrassingly stacked state legislatures so the Republicans don't get to the point of being able to call a damn Constitutional Convention before Democrats stop being a bunch of pussies and fight back.

You might disagree, but Sanders likely contributed to losing Hillary the election. The attacks he used were picked up by Trump to use against Hillary. The slow concession. His splitting of the Democratic party.

Compared to 2008, where Hillary conceded quite quickly as opposed to Sanders and where she did not attack the legitimacy of the party or the legitimacy of Barack Obama, I think Sanders was definitely a part of the problem. Particularly since Hillary 2016 was sealed for victory much earlier than Obama 2008 was in terms of pledged delegates.

There were months of negativity from Sanders supporters even after the DNC. They were actively contributing to the smears and negativity until election day. Even for the debates where Hillary performed admirably.

Post-election it was a complete abdication of responsibility of their part in smearing a woman. Sanders, and Sanders supporters.

Well the party base didn't win us jack shit so maybe stop depending on them so much and look to expand the base. I said the same thing during primaries and got shouted down, but it's the truth.

That party base is why Sanders lost the primary, so you need to do better than that.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Well the party base didn't win us jack shit so maybe stop depending on them so much and look to expand the base. I said the same thing during primaries and got shouted down, but it's the truth.

150,000 votes across three states is not a call for major realignment.

The merits of the DNC Chair should be in organisation and ... wait for it ... fundraising.

Because you still need people like Kev and stooge to fill the coffers to pay for things.

 

[neurosisxeno]

People are going back into their bubbles with Sanders v. Clinton

STUPID

I'm not going back to Sanders vs. Clinton, I'm advocating for listening to the guy who correctly predicted what issue would matter most on Election Day instead of just using the same failing strategy that gave us Republicans holding the WH, Senate, House, and a majority of State Legislatures. Or you know, just write him off as wacky old Bernie Sanders. His ideas are bad and he should feel bad!

150,000 votes across three states is not a call for major realignment.

A loss is a loss. The Democratic Party completely missed the mark on what mattered to voters.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I'm not going back to Sanders vs. Clinton, I'm advocating for listening to the guy who correctly predicted what issue would matter most on Election Day

Racial resentment and group threat stoked by Donald Trump's divisive rhetoric making white people think that immigrants and blacks were taking all their money? I don't remember that.

 

[kirblar]

People are going back into their bubbles with Sanders v. Clinton

STUPID

It's not Sanders v Clinton, it's Sanders vs the entire Democratic party.

 

[Wilsongt]

Augh. Now I am depressed all over again about Haley. Not that I liked her, but she is being replaced with an old, white man who vehemently supported Trump.

What a fucking disaster.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Racial resentment and group threat stoked by Donald Trump's divisive rhetoric making white people think that immigrants and blacks were taking all their money? I don't remember that.

I also don't buy that literally everyone who voted for Trump was a racist. A lot of them were, and Trump is not helping that with idiots like Bannon and Sessions by his side, but maybe, just maybe, 30 years of public attacks on Hillary had something to do with it. People thought so negatively of her that even the Trumpster Fire seemed better.

 

[neurosisxeno]

That party base is why Sanders lost the primary, so you need to do better than that.

Open up the primaries more. Get rid of Caucuses, stupidly early registration dates (looking at you NY), and run everything as a Semi-Closed/Open Primary. Embrace Democracy to shed the facade of a corrupt insiders club--because that's all people see the DNC/Democratic Party as after this election cycle.

EDIT: Thought I was in edit, sorry for the double post, can't see anywhere that allows me to delete it :x

 

[kirblar]

I also don't buy that literally everyone who voted for Trump was a racist. A lot of them were, and Trump is not helping that with idiots like Bannon and Sessions by his side, but maybe, just maybe, 30 years of public attacks on Hillary had something to do with it. People thought so negatively of her that even the Trumpster Fire seemed better.

Also, Sanders, who would have been eviscerated in a General by the right.

If Biden runs, he wins. If Comey doesn't send that letter, she wins.

The margins were tiny. Trump turned out a bunch of nonvoters that made up for the losses in the Rockefeller segment of the party.

Open up the primaries more. Get rid of Caucuses, stupidly early registration dates (looking at you NY), and run everything as a Semi-Closed/Open Primary. Embrace Democracy to shed the facade of a corrupt insiders club--because that's all people see the DNC/Democratic Party as after this election cycle.

Because Bernie Sanders and Wikileaks doubleteamed them to sell the same narrative.

This idea that the Dems are "corrupt" and need to be purged is so incredibly dangerous.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Just wanted to say...I'm so dang proud of my country. I was banned for a couple weeks (well it ended like a week ago but i didnt post) so I missed the election, but I've been walking on clouds ever since. First time in my life I've been so into politics.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I also don't buy that literally everyone who voted for Trump was a racist. A lot of them were, and Trump is not helping that with idiots like Bannon and Sessions by his side, but maybe, just maybe, 30 years of public attacks on Hillary had something to do with it. People thought so negatively of her that even the Trumpster Fire seemed better.

One doesn't need to think everyone is a card carrying Klansman to think that race was one of the major drivers of Trump's support. It was the hallmark of his campaign.
There's racial apathy, racial resentment, racial anxiety, white fragility, and plain old full blow racism, all the colours of the racialised rainbow.

There are also probably half a dozen theories of this election right now.
One of them simply being, this was like any other partisan driven election.
It was a change election.
It was a result that matched the fundamentals.
Rural revolt.
Poor electoral strategy.
Sexism, yes, that too.

What isn't a particularly strong takeaway, so far as I can tell is a need to lurch dramatically leftward. And trying to out-Trump Trump on poorly thought out protectionism isn't going to work either. Red Ocean.

 

[Wilsongt]

Just wanted to say...I'm so dang proud of my country. I was banned for a couple weeks (well it ended like a week ago but i didnt post) so I missed the election, but I've been walking on clouds ever since. First time in my life I've been so into politics.

 

[Big Baybee]

It's not Sanders v Clinton, it's Sanders vs the entire Democratic party.

This. Clinton is not a part of the equation. I think we (the left) are going to do some stupid shit. It's obvious we lost because some dems refused to vote for Clinton for whatever their issue may be. Our numbers were way down while republicans held their noses and voted for a reality tv star. She didn't excite people, but the actual platform she ran on was great. The answer isn't to swing dramatically more left, but to run a charismatic candidate that doesn't come with a ton of baggage, even if the baggage is bullshit. Bernie probably should have won the primaries. I forgot how fickle my side can be after 8 years of a democratic president.

 

[kirblar]

Just wanted to say...I'm so dang proud of my country. I was banned for a couple weeks (well it ended like a week ago but i didnt post) so I missed the election, but I've been walking on clouds ever since. First time in my life I've been so into politics.

Please explain how KKK and Neo-Nazi victory parties are making you proud to be an American.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Also, Sanders, who would have been eviscerated in a General by the right.

You mean like how everyone said Trump would be? I could go back to the previous PoliGAF threads and pull direct quotes, but everyone was so damn certain Hillary would crush Trump going back from just before the Comey letter all the way back to when she announced, probably even further back than that.

Because Bernie Sanders and Wikileaks doubleteamed them to sell the same narrative.

The same Sanders that said "America is sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails!"? The DNC openly talking shit about Bernie and then that information being released by Wikileaks did more damage than anything Bernie himself said or pointed out. Yea, he attacked her, but Obama was probably more vicious in his attacks back in 2008, the problem was an extra 7 years of baggage and political attacks.

One doesn't need to think everyone is a card carrying Klansman to think that race was one of the major drivers of Trump's support. It was the hallmark of his campaign.
There's racial apathy, racial resentment, racial anxiety, white fragility, and plain old full blow racism, all the colours of the racialised rainbow.

There are also probably half a dozen theories of this election right now.
One of them simply being, this was like any other partisan driven election.
It was a change election.
Rural revolt.
Poor electoral strategy.
Sexism, yes, that too.

What isn't a particularly strong takeaway, so far as I can tell is a need to lurch dramatically leftward. And trying to out-Trump Trump on poorly thought out protectionism isn't going to work either. Red Ocean.

I absolutely think Race played a part, but racists have generally always voted Republican anyway (since the 70's at least). I think the Republicans taking in the Alt Right is going to be the worst thing they could do--yet they still think phasing out Medicare is a good idea so who knows--and will inevitably weaken them. But just shouting other people down by saying Trump won because America is racist is a pretty weak argument consider a black man who got more votes than anyone in history is leaving office, and over 200 counties flipped from him to Trump. Yea, it probably shored up the Rural vote a lot, but Clinton even lost by worse margins in some urban counties.

 

[Wilsongt]

Please explain how KKK and Neo-Nazi victory parties are making you proud to be an American.

Don't take the bait.

 

[kirblar]

You mean like how everyone said Trump would be? I could go back to the previous PoliGAF threads and pull direct quotes, but everyone was so damn certain Hillary would crush Trump going back from just before the Comey letter all the way back to when she announced, probably even further back than that.


The same Sanders that said "America is sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails!"? The DNC openly talking shit about Bernie and then that information being released by Wikileaks did more damage than anything Bernie himself said or pointed out. Yea, he attacked her, but Obama was probably more vicious in his attacks back in 2008, the problem was an extra 7 years of baggage and political attacks.

Sanders describing things as rigged, corrupt, etc- if you don't think that hurt Clinton on election day by giving credence to the Right's attacks, you're blind.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Sanders describing things as rigged, corrupt, etc- if you don't think that hurt Clinton on election day by giving credence to the Right's attacks, you're blind.

Clinton was polling upwards of 8-10% ahead of Trump as late as 2 weeks before Election Day, so I doubt the Bernie attacks from months before were a huge part. From the Convention onward he did nothing but sing the praises of Clinton/Kaine. If you want to blame a single figure, blame James Comey. As far as I'm concerned he violated the Hatch Act and should be kicked out of the FBI.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Please explain how KKK and Neo-Nazi victory parties are making you proud to be an American.

This is one of those "gotcha" attempts of a post...
Every single time someone say they voted for Trump or support him you see people asking variations of that. I've explained why I voted and support the President-Elect several times in the past. I just wanted to say I'm happy he won as I was banned for the election and didn't get a chance to on Nov 8.

 

[kirblar]

Clinton was polling upwards of 8-10% ahead of Trump as late as 2 weeks before Election Day, so I doubt the Bernie attacks from months before were a huge part. From the DNC onward he did nothing but sing the praises of Clinton/Kaine. If you want to blame a single figure, blame James Comey. As far as I'm concerned he violated the Hatch Act and should be kicked out of the FBI.

Multiple things played a part to make the margins tight enough for that letter to be a killing blow.

Sanders taking on right-wing narratives and legitimizing them was one of them.

Barney Frank's assesment has been proven to be dead on: Sanders does not think he can lose legitimately. He thinks he's superman, that the voters really do secretly love his ideas, and that any reason he fails is due to cheating.

 

[metalslimer]

I think it's good that whatever fights happen, happen now. Trump will be a polarizing enough figure to unify democrats anyway. The Republican party is still an extremely dysfunctional party overall that basically have been an anti Obama party for 8 years.

Edit: Please stop giving heavy the attention he so desperately craves.

And Haley is the first pick I'm not sick to my stomach about.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

She's term limited and this is valuable foreign policy experience which is usually the achilles heel of governors running for president.

This seems like a very 20th century politics move from Haley. Modern voters don't care about qualifications or experience, it just makes you look like a Washington insider. I don't see how being associated with the hated UN is going to help Haley at all. Unless she spends the next four years withdrawing the US from various international bodies.