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[Blader]

I really doubt this, tbh. There's no way at any point that they'd have been expecting to be able to get Eccleston back for a full role like this given history. And it's entirely possible that part of the reason he turned it down is because the only thing they asked him to do was the regeneration scene at the end.

Well I'm not saying the part was explicitly Ninth Doctor, it could have been slightly more vague at the time where it could have gone either way. And has been said a couple times before, Hurt was only hired less than a week before filming began.

My thought on it is that it was originally conceived as a Ninth/Tenth/Eleventh story, with the former being changed somewhat from Ninth to War after Eccleston turned Moffat down. It's hard to imagine that Moffat would have deliberately shot for a Ten/Eleven/new guy story right off the bat.

 

[Slowdive]

Is there a Christmas thread yet?

This popped up on Twitter, not sure if it's legit:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZ7HDBBCEAA8IIm.jpg:large

Looks pretty legit to me. I thought

Spoiler

"Handles" was wooden though?

 

[twobear]

How would someone like the Doctor even count his age. He probably has to ask the Tardis or check the age of his screwdriver and offset some value to get a vague idea of how long he's been alive.

With non-linear time and especially considering that he seems to talk about Earth years even though he spends a lot of time in places with variable length days/years it'd be a nightmare to work out how much time has passed over you.

Your own personal clock ticks at the same speed no matter what you're doing. It's not outside of the realms of imagination that Time Lords might be able to tell how long that clock's been ticking without having to consult their watch.

 

[Symphonia]

Looks pretty legit to me. I thought

Spoiler

"Handles" was wooden though?

Spoiler

I don't recall anything being mentioned about Handles being wooden. I only remember something about the Doctor having a Cyberman's head as a pet, and that's it.

 

[maharg]

Well I'm not saying the part was explicitly Ninth Doctor, it could have been slightly more vague at the time where it could have gone either way. And has been said a couple times before, Hurt was only hired less than a week before filming began.

My thought on it is that it was originally conceived as a Ninth/Tenth/Eleventh story, with the former being changed somewhat from Ninth to War after Eccleston turned Moffat down. It's hard to imagine that Moffat would have deliberately shot for a Ten/Eleven/new guy story right off the bat.

I dunno, that seems to be exactly the sort of thing Moffat might do. At this point, Eccleston is basically the only person involved in Who who's more of a primadonna than he is, so it's not a stretch to think he avoided the confrontation.

Also he seems super keen to tackle

Spoiler

the regeneration limit

before his tenure's up for some reason.

 

[twobear]

Christmas special:

Spoiler

Blurg, so, Trenzalore is going to happen/be explained? But we only learned about it at the end of the last series. Stop ruining all the sense of mystery and wonder by explaining every little thing on the show please Moffat.

Or if you are going to do it, at least stop setting every single one up in a row and then knocking them down immediately.

 

[infiniteloop]

Looks pretty legit to me. I thought

Spoiler

"Handles" was wooden though?

Yup, seems like it is.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

How would someone like the Doctor even count his age. He probably has to ask the Tardis or check the age of his screwdriver and offset some value to get a vague idea of how long he's been alive.

With non-linear time and especially considering that he seems to talk about Earth years even though he spends a lot of time in places with variable length days/years it'd be a nightmare to work out how much time has passed over you.

Well the Doctor does need to sleep, so technically it shouldn't be impossible for him to keep track of days in his "subjective" timeline. But he clearly doesn't care anyway, lol

 

[Zeppu]

Your own personal clock ticks at the same speed no matter what you're doing. It's not outside of the realms of imagination that Time Lords might be able to tell how long that clock's been ticking without having to consult their watch.

That is most certainly true. And being Time Lords it would make sense for them to be able to do so. Tennant was always oddly specific about his age (even the special he says he's 906 years old) but Smith was almost much more ambiguous about it (again he says he's lost count in the special) so I'm thinking he may have reached a point where even though he would've/could've been capable of knowing instinctively, he's sort of lost count and never bothered to confirm the exact age. It could also be his current state of exhaustion and dread he's going through, so he'll probably feel revitalized if he discovers Gallifray is 'okay' and after the whole Fall of the Eleventh is behind him.

Well the Doctor does need to sleep, so technically it shouldn't be impossible for him to keep track of days in his "subjective" timeline. But he clearly doesn't care anyway, lol

Does he? In the Bad/Good/First/Last night minisodes it's implied that he doesn't need to sleep so he does other stuff while Rory and Amy were asleep.

 

[Slowdive]

Spoiler

I don't recall anything being mentioned about Handles being wooden. I only remember something about the Doctor having a Cyberman's head as a pet, and that's it.

I just checked, you're right, I got confused, he does

Spoiler

fight wooden Cybermen though.

The guy that's posted basically the whole plot on GB said the picture is real.

 

[infiniteloop]

yeah, i feel like I've seen the Christmas episode already lol.

 

[Slowdive]

yeah, i feel like I've seen the Christmas episode already lol.

Haha. I'm kinda surprised so much has leaked to be honest. While they had a tight lid on the 50th.

 

[Blader]

Christmas special:

Spoiler

Or if you are going to do it, at least stop setting every single one up in a row and then knocking them down immediately.

If there's one thing Moffat is definitely not guilty of, it's immediately explaining his own plot points. :lol

 

[RetroMG]

Can someone PM me a link with these GB Christmas spoilers, please? Thanks.

 

[infiniteloop]

Can someone PM me a link with these GB Christmas spoilers, please? Thanks.

done

 

[Jest Chillin]

That is most certainly true. And being Time Lords it would make sense for them to be able to do so. Tennant was always oddly specific about his age (even the special he says he's 906 years old) but Smith was almost much more ambiguous about it (again he says he's lost count in the special) so I'm thinking he may have reached a point where even though he would've/could've been capable of knowing instinctively, he's sort of lost count and never bothered to confirm the exact age. It could also be his current state of exhaustion and dread he's going through, so he'll probably feel revitalized if he discovers Gallifray is 'okay' and after the whole Fall of the Eleventh is behind him.

Eleven seems to lose track after The Ponds. Moffat seems fond of skipping large swaths of time with Eleven and between The Angels take Manhattan and The Snowmen it seems Eleven has just been moping around Victorian era London, not really caring about anything. He probably lost track there.

 

[mclem]

Haha. I'm kinda surprised so much has leaked to be honest. While they had a tight lid on the 50th.

...which particularly surprises me given that they had to distribute it to a bazillion cinemas around the world. HOW did so little leak?

 

[maharg]

...which particularly surprises me given that they had to distribute it to a bazillion cinemas around the world. HOW did so little leak?

Wasn't it a live stream? I don't think there were physical copies being distributed. Same tech they use to stream operas and stuff.

 

[Wilbur]

done

I'd love them too if that's okay

 

[mclem]

Eleven seems to lose track after The Ponds. Moffat seems fond of skipping large swaths of time with Eleven and between The Angels take Manhattan and The Snowmen it seems Eleven has just been moping around Victorian era London, not really caring about anything. He probably lost track there.

There's also the point that from about The Big Bang onwards the stories have been more about dropping in on his companions' lives, rather than them being together constantly as they flit from adventure to adventure. Changes the vibe somewhat, despite having little actual impact on the storylines. And - possibly consciously - leaves a *ton* of gaps for Big Finish to insert whatever they want.

As an aside, I wonder who'll be first to be nabbed by BF: Tennant or Smith. Tennant's more of a fan, but my god he's busy lately.

 

[mclem]

Wasn't it a live stream? I don't think there were physical copies being distributed. Same tech they use to stream operas and stuff.

Possible - I'd forgotten about that tech - but it also had unique tie-in videos, which wouldn't have been the BBC stream.

It's a bit of a missed opportunity, actually, I'd quite have liked the preshow to have been the end of Strictly

 

[infiniteloop]

I'd love them too if that's okay

Here's the GB link, you will need an account:

http://gallifreybase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7510919&postcount=25

 

[Zeppu]

Eleven seems to lose track after The Ponds. Moffat seems fond of skipping large swaths of time with Eleven and between The Angels take Manhattan and The Snowmen it seems Eleven has just been moping around Victorian era London, not really caring about anything. He probably lost track there.

Yep, that sounds about right. In the Impossible Astronaut he says he's 1103 when he's killed. 909 when the meet him again with the blue envelopes.

So at the end of S6 is the oldest where we know his age. He then sort of stops giving a fuck and starts moping around Victorian London. It's both because of the Ponds, and also because after spending 200 years dreading his death at Lake Silencio he then finds out about his fall in Trenzalore, which he has been running away from as well. I find it to make sense.

 

[Slowdive]

...which particularly surprises me given that they had to distribute it to a bazillion cinemas around the world. HOW did so little leak?

Yep, apparently that one guy on here saw it early, have no idea if that's true or not. But it did leak somehow because someone posted the Capaldi gif on GB before it aired which at the time I thought was fan made.

Wasn't it a live stream? I don't think there were physical copies being distributed. Same tech they use to stream operas and stuff.

I'm pretty sure they sent it out on encrypted hard drives.

 

[mclem]

And one other thing:

We knew we were attempting something unprecedented in broadcast history, not only because Doctor Who is a drama, unlike a live feed event such as a World Cup football match or a royal wedding, but because we had to deliver the episode in advance to the four corners of the world so that it could be dubbed and subtitled into 15 different languages.

Forgot about the subtitles and dubbing side of things, plus that implies that it's all predistributed.

 

[Joqu]

done

Me too if that's okay?

 

[Symphonia]

done

Fuck it, whisk a PM my way, if you'd be so kind.

 

[paradox121]

...which particularly surprises me given that they had to distribute it to a bazillion cinemas around the world. HOW did so little leak?

The ironic thing being that what little we did know about the episode came from the actors themselves ( I remember John Hurt pretty much spelled out he'd be the War Doctor months ago, and then obviously the Tom Baker interview last week)

 

[Zeppu]

Wait, so is the Valeyard really technically an amalgamation of Tennant #2 and Smith?

 

[The Elite]

Wait, so is the Valeyard really technically an amalgamation of Tennant #2 and Smith?

...wat!?

 

[Hellers]

Hmm, interesting. So we still don't know where real Rose got the name"Bad Wolf," .

Rose got the name from herself. That's the paradox of Bad Wolf. She creates herself.

 

[Zeppu]

...wat!?

Well counting Tennant's extra regeneration then Smith is really 13. There never really was a 12.

 

[Exterminieren]

Wait, so is the Valeyard really technically an amalgamation of Tennant #2 and Smith?

The extraordinary timey-wimey circumstances of The Stolen Earth knocked the Doctor's timeline all askew, eliminating the Valeyard from history

Spoiler

hopefully.

Or, how's this for an idea... The Doctor was lying when he said that Donna would burn up with the Time Lord memories in her head. He actually did wiped her mind to stop her becoming the Valeyard (between 12 and 13!) and going all evil.

 

[APZonerunner]

Different trousers (very first Doctor), coat and waistcoat in that Christmas promo pic. Surprised he's going to spend his last episode in a one-off costume!

 

[Famassu]

Well counting Tennant's extra regeneration then Smith is really 13. There never really was a 12.

I don't remember the explanation, but I thought Tennant's first regen didn't count? So Smith is still 12.

 

[APZonerunner]

I'm not even going to paste this in spoiler tags as it's that potentially volatile. One of the guys who provided correct spoilers for NOTD and clearly knows about Christmas (he mentioned the Cyberman head last month, and... lo, there it is in the promo pic) has posted a straight-up synopsis of Christmas. For those without Outpost Gallifrey accounts, here it is on Pastebin. Spoilers, SPOILERS, click at your own risk.

Spoiler

http://pastebin.com/NKSeqHgV

 

[mclem]

Well counting Tennant's extra regeneration then Smith is really 13. There never really was a 12.

Personal fanwank theory: Waters of Mars Tennant is Valeyard Tennant. The timing works out! After he has his breakdown when Adelaide commits suicide, the darkness leaves him and manifests as Michael Jayston.

 

[Zeppu]

The extraordinary timey-wimey circumstances of The Stolen Earth knocked the Doctor's timeline all askew, eliminating the Valeyard from history

Spoiler

hopefully.

Or, how's this for an idea... The Doctor was lying when he said that Donna would burn up with the Time Lord memories in her head. He actually did wiped her mind to stop her becoming the Valeyard (between 12 and 13!) and going all evil.

:O

Maybe metacrisis doctor is hella pissed that he got stuck single-hearted, Tardis-less in a parallel universe with Rose and Jackie who have driven him completely nuts by now and just wants to stop himself from existing.

I don't remember the explanation, but I thought Tennant's first regen didn't count? So Smith is still 12.

Eh, I'm mostly being an idiot. Smith is still the 12th incarnation even though he used 12 regens to get there.

 

[Blader]

I don't remember the explanation, but I thought Tennant's first regen didn't count? So Smith is still 12.

Why wouldn't it count? It's a full regeneration cycle that created another body.

In any event, Moffat is apparently counting it, so that makes Smith the 13th regeneration.

 

[mclem]

I don't remember the explanation, but I thought Tennant's first regen didn't count? So Smith is still 12.

The exact phrasing is "between his 12th and final incarnation". He's still only on his 12th incarnation, even though he's used up all 12 regenerations.

 

[Boem]

Why wouldn't it count? It's a full regeneration cycle that created another body.

In any event, Moffat is apparently counting it, so that makes Smith the 13th regeneration.

Where did Moffat say that he counts that first semi-regeneration? I really don't think that will ever come up again, except for maybe a Big Finish episode. It's too long ago, and really not that noteworthy in the grand scheme of things.

In fact, here's what Moffat has to say on the numbering of the Doctors:

“He has no more ever called himself the 11th Doctor than he would call himself Matt Smith. The Doctor doesn’t know off the top of his head.

“If you worry about such things, and I do, then I specifically said John Hurt’s Doctor doesn’t use the title. Smith’s Doctor is in his 12th body but he’s the 11th Doctor, however there is no such character as the 11th Doctor – he’s just the Doctor, that’s what he calls himself.

“The numbering doesn’t matter, except for those lists that you and I have been making for many years. So I’ve given you the option of not counting John Hurt numerically – he’s the War Doctor.”

On the regeneration issue, he said: “Paul McGann turns into John Hurt so they’re not the same incarnation. He used up another regeneration and I expect he’ll be in trouble shortly – you can’t break rules laid down in ‘The Deadly Assassin’.”

Source: http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/moffat-on-doctor-numbering-again-56147.htm

Edit: My bad, didn't catch the Mirror article. Oh well. Sounds weird to me though, never thought they'd do something with that old Tennant episode. Maybe that's because I really hated that episode when it aired.

 

[Mariolee]

I'm not even going to paste this in spoiler tags as it's that potentially volatile. One of the guys who provided correct spoilers for NOTD and clearly knows about Christmas (he mentioned the Cyberman head last month, and... lo, there it is in the promo pic) has posted a straight-up synopsis of Christmas. For those without Outpost Gallifrey accounts, here it is on Pastebin. Spoilers, SPOILERS, click at your own risk.

Spoiler

http://pastebin.com/NKSeqHgV

Holy moly.a

 

[Boem]

I just realized that at 0:24 Matt Smith flips One Direction the V. I might need to see if I can watch that entire show somewhere, we turned it off not too long after that happened. Angry Moffat is my favorite Moffat.

 

[Ein Bear]

“He has no more ever called himself the 11th Doctor than he would call himself Matt Smith. The Doctor doesn’t know off the top of his head.

That's not true, he specifically refers to himself as 'The Eleventh' in that episode where he moves in with James Cordon.

 

[Fred Norris]

I'm not sure I like how that sounds. Maybe it will play off better on tv but it just seems depressing and redundant. And it makes no sense

Spoiler

in regards to Kovarian and The Crack. The Doctor sealed the cracks.

 

[Blader]

Where did Moffat say that he counts that first semi-regeneration? I really don't think that will ever come up again, except for maybe a Big Finish episode. It's too long ago, and really not that noteworthy in the grand scheme of things.

In fact, here's what Moffat has to say on the numbering of the Doctors:



Source: http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/moffat-on-doctor-numbering-again-56147.htm

Edit: My bad, didn't catch the Mirror article. Oh well. Sounds weird to me though, never thought they'd do something with that old Tennant episode. Maybe that's because I really hated that episode when it aired.

The numbering of the Doctors isn't the same thing as the numbering of the regenerations. For one thing, Hurt's Doctor doesn't have a number. For another, one of the regenerations wasn't even used on the Doctor's own body.

So Matt is the Eleventh Doctor, the 12th incarnation on that body, and the 13th regeneration to get there.

 

[Zeppu]

So Matt is the Eleventh Doctor, the 12th incarnation on that body, and the 12th regeneration to get there.

Fixed. But yes, exactly.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Edit: For those that might have missed it: the afterparty liveshow on BBC3 was hilariously embarrasing. Here's a clip of possibly the worst part: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZYkuSto80k.
It's got everything: technical problems, a confused John Hurt, a trendy, factory-produced boyband that has nothing to do with Doctor Who getting angry at the producers, a panicked presenter who's close to tears, a confused (and ignored) collection of classic companions in the back, and Stephen Moffat cursing under his breath and sinking his head in his hands. I couldn't watch all of it, because we (probably wisely) decided not to spoil a perfect evening with a show like that. I love Who, but I could never stand the shouty, hectic presentation the BBC uses for productions like this. It's bad enough having to catch the last five minutes of Dancing with the Stars before every episode of Who.

I want to die. Fuck you, BBC.

 

[LiK]

Disappointed with the special. It was good but nothing amazing with it. Tennant didn't have much to do and seemed forced. Piper was pointless. The last 5 minutes was sweet but most of it was kinda meh.

Hurt was awesome in it tho.

 

[Boem]

The numbering of the Doctors isn't the same thing as the numbering of the regenerations. For one thing, Hurt's Doctor doesn't have a number. For another, one of the regenerations wasn't even used on the Doctor's own body.

So Matt is the Eleventh Doctor, the 12th incarnation on that body, and the 13th regeneration to get there.

That depends on how you count regenerations though. At one point, in the episode where Amy and Rory leave, the Doctor uses regeneration energy to heal River, which costs him a couple of hundred years or so. Of course, it's Doctor Who, so it's all rather wibbly-wobbly and up to the mood of the writer. I guess I'd just prefer only counting the actual regenerations from one Doctor to the next (including Hurt), and not the incidental stuff like fake Tennant. It's a bit cleaner that way.

So yeah, according to that new article they're not doing what I want. Oh well, it's not the end of the world. At least it seems like they aren't ignoring the Valeyard storyline, so that should be fun.