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[terrdactycalsrock]

How you gonna take a stab at Martha? I mean c'mon, man.

I saw someone else taking a shot at Martha today. I thought she was an excellent companion

 

[Fiktion]

I felt that Martha was ruined by the writers. She could have been great, but instead they cast her as Rose's rebound and then kind of just made her the companion that gets shit on all the time.

 

[Ithil]

How you gonna take a stab at Martha? I mean c'mon, man.



I'm not super big on Rose, but having recently rewatched the whole show, I think a lot of Rose's time is just the show struggling to find its footing. She's not bad with Tennant, but the whole Eccleston era is a bit wonky, with farting aliens and stuff.

I think Series 3 would have been much stronger if Piper was there with Tennant instead. Would have eliminated the main problems of the Doctor moping and the weak companion.

 

[BocoDragon]

It's interesting that the War Doctor regenerated as a young man, and it wasn't until he was aged that he decided to go to the drastic step of totally destroying the Time Lords/Daleks. He was presumably focused on ending the Time War that entire lifetime. I guess Big Finish will have an entirely new era to play in apart from McGann's.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I'm not super big on Rose, but having recently rewatched the whole show, I think a lot of Rose's time is just the show struggling to find its footing. She's not bad with Tennant, but the whole Eccleston era is a bit wonky, with farting aliens and stuff.

I feel the exact opposite about Rose. She works great with Eccleston, but with Tennant in Series 2 she really comes off as obnoxious.

The 9/Rose dynamic worked wonders.

 

[DrForester]

9 and Rose is really the only doctor/companion relationship in new Who that feels like old who.

 

[Lynd7]

Yeah, I think the characters are more grounded and realistic in S1.

 

[sturmdogg]

Five-ish Doctors Reboot is freaking hilarious. Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy and Peter Davison had great chemistry together.

 

[CorvoSol]

I saw someone else taking a shot at Martha today. I thought she was an excellent companion

I don't deny that I started the show with Martha, so I'm biased, but I thought she did a great job. She's still the only companion since the reboot to avoid a horrible fate.

I feel the exact opposite about Rose. She works great with Eccleston, but with Tennant in Series 2 she really comes off as obnoxious.

The 9/Rose dynamic worked wonders.

I was not a fan of the abusive undertones going on between 9 and Rose. Like the episode where they argue and he storms off and she's all "You'll be back!" Their relationship was not positive to me.

 

[LordGouda]

Five-ish Doctors Reboot is freaking hilarious. Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy and Peter Davison had great chemistry together.

They were amazing together and I loved the scene where Peter was holding up a sign by himself, turned to see McCoy and Baker lounging, and he waves at them to which they waved back.

I found that hilarious.

I was not a fan of the abusive undertones going on between 9 and Rose. Like the episode where they argue and he storms off and she's all "You'll be back!" Their relationship was not positive to me.

Wait, what? Abusive undertones? And that was only like one episode though. They fought over the fact he felt she used him and she was being a brat about it.

 

[PaulloDEC]

I was not a fan of the abusive undertones going on between 9 and Rose. Like the episode where they argue and he storms off and she's all "You'll be back!" Their relationship was not positive to me.

For every moment like that one there's a dozen positive moments, from the straight-up sappy (like the "I'm so glad I met you" scene from Unquiet Dead) to the more powerful stuff (like the "Rose? I'm coming to get you" scene from Bad Wolf).

Their relationship was occasionally rocky, but for the most part they got on really well. Also, what LordGouda said.

 

[Trike]

That's all well and good, but:

Spoiler

The stuff on Trenzalore is real... The TARDIS is real (and it's proven to be "his" TARDIS), there's even a "body". How can 12 exist if 1-11 are stuck in that timestream on Trenzalore? If he regenerates instead of dying, then everything that happened on Trenzalore in "The Name of the Doctor" ceases to be, because he'll take the TARDIS and his body with him when he leaves that place. No, there's going to be something else going on, not just a misunderstanding on his part. Probably something that we can't even fathom, that will allow him to both "die" there, leaving behind both his body and the TARDIS, and still allow the Twelfth to walk away.

Right, but all I am saying is that it is weird that he is afraid of permanent death when he knows that it is not possible due to future incarnations visiting him. I expect them to explain how he is able to regenerate and how the timestream and such is there in The Name of the Doctor, but I have my doubts they will explain that fear. But who knows, Moffat can certainly still surprise us.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Did the Doctor change history or was the ending what actually always happened? Wasn't clear if they actually broke the time lock or is it another impossible astronaut situation.

It's not explicitly stated. I think however that John Hurt being regretful in the Doctor's timestream in Name of the Doctor points to they changed history.

It's what always happened. It's written in such a way that it's a reveal, not a retcon. It's always happened that way but memory loss and the aftermath led the Doctor (and whoever else would've looked into it) into thinking it happened the old way.


Unrelated: Alice X. Zhang's artwork is phenomenal! She's the artist who did the Tardis painting that everyone's been amazed by over the past page or two. She's got a ton of work that I was sort of sifting though and it's all pretty amazing.

 

[maharg]

It's what always happened. It's written in such a way that it's a reveal, not a retcon. It's always happened that way but memory loss and the aftermath led the Doctor (and whoever else would've looked into it) into thinking it happened the old way.

Basically the same as the doctor's "dying" at Lake Silencio.

 

[BocoDragon]

I missed the explanation... but are all the Doctors not going to remember the events of DotD?

 

[Jest Chillin]

Basically the same as the doctor's "dying" at Lake Silencio.

Sort of? The way they undid it, then did it, then undid doing it to undo it again.. I'm not entirely sure if it really was supposed to always be that way at Lake Silencio. At least this movie didn't get THAT timey wimey.

 

[terrdactycalsrock]

I guess this is as good of a time as any to ask. What is Time Lord weaponry like? I've wondered about it for a while now, but of course the Doctor has no need for such things. In the 50th we saw what looked like a rocket launcher and laser guns. Of course theres the moment. Is that all there is? Certainly their army has more than rockets and lasers

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Tennants clone doctor?

EDIT: Post above me

He doesn't have a TARDIS, so he can't be there.

 

[odiin]

Sort of? The way they undid it, then did it, then undid doing it to undo it again.. I'm not entirely sure if it really was supposed to always be that way at Lake Silencio. At least this movie didn't get THAT timey wimey.

Timey what? Timey WIMEY? Do you have to talk like children? what is that makes you so ashamed of being a grown up?

 

[Bluth54]

I guess this is as good of a time as any to ask. What is Time Lord weaponry like? I've wondered about it for a while now, but of course the Doctor has no need for such things. In the 50th we saw what looked like a rocket launcher and laser guns. Of course theres the moment. Is that all there is? Certainly their army has more than rockets and lasers

Well they did say the Moment was the last of the forbidden weapons so it sounds like the time lords had basically thrown everything they had at the Daleks before the events of the 50th.

 

[Mariolee]

It's what always happened. It's written in such a way that it's a reveal, not a retcon. It's always happened that way but memory loss and the aftermath led the Doctor (and whoever else would've looked into it) into thinking it happened the old way.

Huh. So then I'm confused by what happened in Name of the Doctor. When they were in the timeline, a phsyical representative of the War Doctor appeared, not from the Doctor's memories, but from the actual timeline. I thought this meant that the Hurt Doctor indeed did do it.

 

[BocoDragon]

Huh. So then I'm confused by what happened in Name of the Doctor. When they were in the timeline, a phsyical representative of the War Doctor appeared, not from the Doctor's memories, but from the actual timeline. I thought this meant that the Hurt Doctor indeed did do it.

They implied something about the other Doctors forgetting what they had changed in Day of the Doctor... specifically mentioning that Hurt would think he did detonate the moment, I believe.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Huh. So then I'm confused by what happened in Name of the Doctor. When they were in the timeline, a phsyical representative of the War Doctor appeared, not from the Doctor's memories, but from the actual timeline. I thought this meant that the Hurt Doctor indeed did do it.

He believes he did. The memory of what actually happened didn't resurface until the most recent Doctor (Smith) completed his role in it. The other Doctors (Hurt and Tennant) forgot what happened as soon as they returned to their own times. All that Hurt would remember would be standing over the button, ready to press it, and then later being in his TARDIS, regenerated into Eccleston, with Gallifrey gone.

 

[Mariolee]

They implied something about the other Doctors forgetting what they had changed in Day of the Doctor... specifically mentioning that Hurt would think he did detonate the moment, I believe.

He believes he did. The memory of what actually happened didn't resurface until the most recent Doctor (Smith) completed his role in it. The other Doctors (Hurt and Tennant) forgot what happened as soon as they returned to their own times. All that Hurt would remember would be standing over the button, ready to press it, and then later being in his TARDIS, regenerated into Eccleston, with Gallifrey gone.

I get that, but Hurt already regenerated into Eccleston by the time he forgot what happened. Which means that at no point physically during his War Doctor form did he think he pushed the button.

 

[Fiktion]

Huh. So then I'm confused by what happened in Name of the Doctor. When they were in the timeline, a phsyical representative of the War Doctor appeared, not from the Doctor's memories, but from the actual timeline. I thought this meant that the Hurt Doctor indeed did do it.

Maybe that was how it really was and history was changed in Day of the Doctor.

 

[BocoDragon]

I get that, but Hurt already regenerated into Eccleston by the time he forgot what happened. Which means that at no point physically during his War Doctor form did he think he pushed the button.

Timey wimey.

(stop questioning!)

 

[Burai]

Right, but all I am saying is that it is weird that he is afraid of permanent death when he knows that it is not possible due to future incarnations visiting him. I expect them to explain how he is able to regenerate and how the timestream and such is there in The Name of the Doctor, but I have my doubts they will explain that fear. But who knows, Moffat can certainly still surprise us.

All he knows is that he will die on Trenzalor. For all he knows it's the Curator that befalls that fate, maybe another incarnation after that. And he doesn't know how soon that will be, how many more regenerations he'll go through, how long each will last, etc.

He's seen his own grave but he doesn't know when or how it happens, just that it will. That's enough to put fear in anyone.

 

[Mariolee]

Timey wimey.

(stop questioning!)

"I have no idea where he gets that from."

lol fine. Moffat pulls out too many plot twists for his own good.

 

[Jest Chillin]

"I have no idea where he gets that from."

lol fine. Moffat pulls out too many plot twists for his own good.

Uh.. Ok.. so you said in The Name of the Doctor, a physical representation of War Doctor shows up.. but I just watched it and it doesn't appear so. When he shows up, they're still inside the 11's timeline. And though 11 and War speak, there's nothing to suggest that War is any different than the other Doctors that Clara saw running around before 11 started speaking to her.

So what we saw in The Name of the Doctor still fits with the movie because he retains the memory of standing over the button and then would see the aftermath of the Daleks destroying themselves. The only thing missing from any of the Doctors memories would be the events in the barn from the moment that 10 and 11 enter with their Tardis' up until the moment they leave the gallery in their Tardis'.

That's how I understand it anyways.

Edit: To be more clear.. the War Doctor form doesn't have to remember anything because the 9th would remember War's standing over the button. The fact that War regenerated immediately after the memory of standing over the button would further convince 9 that he had used The Moment and likely lost a life in it's use.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

On Eleven seeing Capaldi; if the timelines are fixing themselves, he'd forget Capaldi as Ten forgot him.

 

[Symphonia]

A lot of people (and I mean a lot) seem to be certain on the fact it was Capaldi who said "No, sir, all thirteen..." when the Doctors were giving that little speech at the end, and not the High Councilor.

 

[mclem]

It's not explicitly stated. I think however that John Hurt being regretful in the Doctor's timestream in Name of the Doctor points to they changed history.

It *is* explicitly stated that he'll forget the precise events, and him forgetting is pretty consistent with how the new series played out. They don't have to have changed anything.

Edit:

I get that, but Hurt already regenerated into Eccleston by the time he forgot what happened. Which means that at no point physically during his War Doctor form did he think he pushed the button.

Oh, I see! I took it as the 'other selves' in the lowest level of his timeline - Clara's final destination where 11 saves her - aren't - for want a better word - 'snapshots' of that Doctor at a point in time, but instead 11's recollection of them at that point. In other words, if 11 were to re-enter the timeline *now*, he'd meet a different War Doctor.

Fanwank, perhaps, but it fits.

 

[mclem]

Five-ish Doctors Reboot is freaking hilarious. Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy and Peter Davison had great chemistry together.

I'd watch a sitcom based on that premise. That said, I'm not sure there's many plots other than the one we saw.



Edit:

Occasionally over on Gallifrey Base they get daily timeshift figures. I thought there might be a reasonable timeshift on Sunday, and they're right: the total viewing is now up to 11.8M. It'll probably slow down through the week, now, but I think 13M might be on the edge of feasibility.

 

[Zeppu]

So I watched it twice. And I loved it both times. This is amazing.

I love the time travel stuff. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. The Doctor has chosen to change or tweak the past multiple times and isn't that what time travel is all about? To go back and correct a mistake you've one?

The amazing bit is that the implication is that the Doctor never did actually destroy Gallifray. He's been living with the guilt for four centuries. A great, grand sacrifice the Doctor does for the universe and to keep his promise.

Then of course wonderful way in which centuries worth of calculations are started by earlier doctors and completed by the later ones.

Amazing. An absolute joy to watch and it's great to see that the Doctor has been redeemed of the guilt in his past.

 

[BocoDragon]

So I watched it twice. And I loved it both times. This is amazing.

I love the time travel stuff. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. The Doctor has chosen to change or tweak the past multiple times and isn't that what time travel is all about? To go back and correct a mistake you've one?

The amazing bit is that the implication is that the Doctor never did actually destroy Gallifray. He's been living with the guilt for four centuries. A great, grand sacrifice the Doctor does for the universe and to keep his promise.

Then of course wonderful way in which centuries worth of calculations are started by earlier doctors and completed by the later ones.

Amazing. An absolute joy to watch and it's great to see that the Doctor has been redeemed of the guilt in his past.

It is interesting that the character will be able to evolve from this point. The post-War "guilt Doctor" era is well and over.

 

[Zeppu]

It is interesting that the character will be able to evolve from this point. The post-War "guilt Doctor" era is well and over.

We've had 3 guilty doctors. 11 has slightly replaced his guilt with the dread of Trenzalore but that means that since Trenzalore is the 'Fall of the Eleventh' and since the 'Eleventh' has sort of realized that Gallifray hasn't fallen it could mean that 'Twelve' will have a clean slate to work on. No guilt. No Silence. No Trenzalore.

A proper rebirth. Woo!

 

[BocoDragon]

We've had 3 guilty doctors. 11 has slightly replaced his guilt with the dread of Trenzalore but that means that since Trenzalore is the 'Fall of the Eleventh' and since the 'Eleventh' has sort of realized that Gallifray hasn't fallen it could mean that 'Twelve' will have a clean slate to work on. No guilt. No Silence. No Trenzalore.

A proper rebirth. Woo!

Trenzalore is an interesting plot thread for the future anyway. That and Gallifrey. I think in some way they've resolved the Time War (though it will probably be a sandbox for Big Finish writers), so they need to add new something new to the lore at this point.



On another note... That Tom Baker cameo was so great. Amazingly acted.. and contained so much of his personality in a few minutes. It hit me hard because it tapped into some deep-set memories of first watching Tom Baker reruns as a child at the beginning of the 90s.

 

[mclem]

Then of course wonderful way in which centuries worth of calculations are started by earlier doctors and completed by the later ones.

At some point, the earlier doctors need to be informed that this is necessary.

I choose to believe that that scene at the end of Adventure in Space and Time is part of that process. I don't care that it doesn't particularly make sense, the notion amuses me

 

[DieH@rd]

Another fantastic reaction video from two drunk girls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsp6XzaDj_4

They also made awesome vid for the Name of the Doctor

 

[nephilimdj]

Well, (small Christmas Special spoilers/rumors from GB)

Spoiler

The Doctor fully expects to die on Trenzalore, permanently.

Which doesn't seem to make sense, given what we were shown in the 50th. I have no doubt that the extra regenerations will be a mystery, but the fact that he knows he has a future makes it weird.

Spoiler

Power Ranger Daleks destory the tardis which destorys the old daleks, cybermen and angels, doctor survives

 

[Mindwipe]

Right, but all I am saying is that it is weird that he is afraid of permanent death when he knows that it is not possible due to future incarnations visiting him. I expect them to explain how he is able to regenerate and how the timestream and such is there in The Name of the Doctor, but I have my doubts they will explain that fear. But who knows, Moffat can certainly still surprise us.

Two things -

1) Going by the strict rules of how these things work, the 11th (12th?) Doctor shoudn't remember his encounter with the Curator afterwards anyway, as he's the younger Doctor in a multiple doctor encounter...

2) He also doesn't know that the Curator isn't the 13th Doctor, and Trenzalore isn't his death (though if you except one that should mean he's not afraid of going to Trenzalore as the 11th as he knows he isn't going to die on the specifc occassion).

 

[RetroMG]

The thing that amazes me about the curator scene is how YOUNG Smith looks during it. It really gives the impression that saving Gallifrey took this huge weight off his shoulders.

 

[Jintor]

Holy shit that was amazing.

 

[Jintor]

Damn you eccleston ;___;

why couldn't you just turn up, say 'fantastic' and leave again

 

[DieH@rd]

Its such a shame that Ecclestone did not appear for his regeneration

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Just watched the episode again, and man is that helicopter lift introduction terrible, and the Zygons are still a forgettable element.
But when all 13 doctors show up - next stop, chill town.

All these chills.

 

[mclem]

Its such a shame that Ecclestone did not appear for his regeneration

One interesting thing from Twitter:

Most interesting note to come from yesterday’s #DoctorWho panel at Excel was that a longer version of the Day of the Doctor regeneration…

…was made but Moffat chose not to use it because, he implied, he was not 100% happy with the SFX. Would love to see it though #DoctorWho

@KeefJudge The longer version used CGI but Moffat wasn’t satisfied

To clarify - CG was used beyond the yellow lights. The special effects guys were “surprised” to see how much was cut in the final edit

 

[BGBW]

So when will the Doctor get sonic eye beams?

 

[Ambient80]

So I have a question, and I'm gonna out it in spoilers just in case. They include spoilers from the 50th, and a bit of speculation.

Spoiler

So Rose/The Moment. At the end of S1, when she absorbs the time vortex, one of the first things she says is "I am the Bad Wolf. I create myself." Now, we see that The Moment's interface is The Big Bad Wolf, and taking Rose's form. So my question is, is the Rose Tyler that we saw in S1/2 something/someone who was created by The Moment in order to get hold of the Time Vortex for a short time, or did The Moment just take the real Rose Tyler's form for whatever reason? I know she said something about Rose Tyler when talking with Hurt, but I was still too WTF to follow it, lol. If it's the former theory, then it makes the "real" Rose's speech as the Bad Wolf at the end of S1 seem much more interesting and powerful. At that single point in time she was more powerful than just about anything in the universe, as she is The Moment and holding the entire Time Vortex in her mind.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

A lot of people (and I mean a lot) seem to be certain on the fact it was Capaldi who said "No, sir, all thirteen..." when the Doctors were giving that little speech at the end, and not the High Councilor.

Just checked. It's Capaldi