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Doctor Who 50th Anniversary |OT| Splendid Chap, All Of Them

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Borman

Member
I think Donna's adventure ending how it did was more tragic than most. She really was a nobody for all of her life, but finally, she went on a grand journey. She went with the doctor, saved the world, and became something so much more than an ordinary human. Then to have to forget all of that, all of what she did, and go back to being just average old Donna who sleeps through every big event, is just so sad.

I rewatched Blink recently and would be pleased if Moffat brought Sally Sparrow back as a companion.

The actress that played Sally was scared by the fandom and doesn't want to return (I think...) Edit: Guess not? That was a rumor back after it aired anyway.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Watching An Adventure in Space and Time with my gf, and we talk about Hartnell's age.

Wikipedia reveals that he was 58 when he left the show, and 67 when he died.

Da fuck? He wasn't that old at all. He's younger than my parents now when he left the show. He looked ancient though! Damn.
 

maharg

idspispopd
It might not be true, but that was one of the leading rumors sometime after it aired.

Wasn't there an interview where she talked about the... enthusiasm... of the fans? I seem to recall there being one. That said I think it may have been blown out of proportion.
 
Watching An Adventure in Space and Time with my gf, and we talk about Hartnell's age.

Wikipedia reveals that he was 58 when he left the show, and 67 when he died.

Da fuck? He wasn't that old at all. He's younger than my parents now when he left the show. He looked ancient though! Damn.

The wig makes him look older, plus the tiring 48 week-schedule & the arteriosclerosis messing up his lines(plus the script often intentionally calling for him mess them up, making him seem doddery) give him the impression of being older then he actually is. I was shocked when I found out he was (relatively) so young.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Yo why are all these streaming services so terrible at having classic Doctor Who episodes?
 
Amazon Prime has SLIGHTLY more episodes than Netflix does.

But yeah - I know there's WAY more serials released to DVD than what's available on both Netflix and Amazon.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
it's terrible

there are like two or three serials per Doctor at most. Tom Baker maybe has six.

The Aztecs is literally the only thing Amazon has for the first Doctor, and it looks like hulu has the same selection of episodes. What is going ON?
 

Symphonia

Banned
I rewatched Blink recently and would be pleased if Moffat brought Sally Sparrow back as a companion.
Oh, god, yes.

Sally Sparrow would be the perfect companion. Cute, smart, can hold her own, has plenty of personality and the Who fans already love her - and that's after one episode. If they can bring her back as a companion for S9, I'll die of happiness. Or, if not as a companion, bring her in for another Sparrow-centric episode.
 
tumblr_mjf7bynkoL1rchttwo1_250.gif
I havent forgot about her too. All the motivations I need!
 

Tizoc

Member
Some quick questions:
Any updates on any missing episodes being found?
When will the X-Mas special air?
 
The wig makes him look older, plus the tiring 48 week-schedule & the arteriosclerosis messing up his lines(plus the script often intentionally calling for him mess them up, making him seem doddery) give him the impression of being older then he actually is. I was shocked when I found out he was (relatively) so young.

Also, 67 in the 60's is a lot different than 67 in the modern Western world.
 

maharg

idspispopd
Also, 67 in the 60's is a lot different than 67 in the modern Western world.

Eh? Not really. It's really weird to describe the 60s as not part of the modern world.

He looked old for his age at the time for sure. Hell, John Pertwee was only born ten years later and looked way younger than him when he started on Who.
 
Donna is the victim of the writers writing themselves into a corner and needing to get out of it damaging the titular character (in terms of plot/consistency) in any way.

She deserved better, so much better.

Journey's-end-donna-memory-wiped.jpg


447px-Manlytears3.jpg

God, don't remind me. I hated that shitty ending for such a great character.
 
Not as far as I am aware, and Christmas Day, lol.

Some quick questions:
Any updates on any missing episodes being found?
When will the X-Mas special air?

To expand a little bit - on the day before and of the 50th some stories were in the British newspapers claiming that more episodes had been found, and that they might be announced that night. They ultimately weren't, but the stories were so clean-cut sounding that perhaps they were found and some people at the BBC blabbed to the papers in 50th excitement.

Depending on what source, it couple be one complete serial or multiples. The most common thing that every source seems to 'agree' on is that all seven episodes of Marco Polo, a missing 1st Doctor story, have been found. Not found in the traditional sense, though - allegedly the media fuss over Enemy of the World and The Web of Fear made an old fan check their collection, and they found a copy of Marco Polo they'd recorded off the TV on original airing by pointing a camera at the TV screen directly. The BBC has the original audio for Marco Polo, so allegedly they're cleaning up the visuals from the fan's recording and attaching the original version of the soundtrack to it.

Some other, more shaky rumours suggest that other stories, such as Power of the Daleks, have also been found but will take time to trickle through.

God, don't remind me. I hated that shitty ending for such a great character.

Is it really shitty? I don't know. Like, she never would have left, like Rose, like Amy - that's the point of her character. The 'stranded' line was played out with Rose already, and Donna's character was such that she never would have left of her own volition. They could've played a different take of the stranded card - this is what they did with Amy - but even that was less convincing, plot-wise, mechanics, wise, than it was with Rose. The only thing I could've seen her leaving for was Wilf or her mother dying, which would've been even more fucking dark.

In the end, the RTD companions all lose that which is most dear to them. Rose chooses the Doctor over her own family - even one with her parents reunited - multiple times. So they take him from her in the most painful way possible. Martha is shown in her very first scene to be the glue that holds her family together, and while she loves travelling with the Doctor, the first thing she thinks about on multiple occasions is her family (42, for instance) - and so her family end up torn to pieces, emotionally and physically scarred as the only few who remember life under The Master. Donna's life was given meaning by all the things she and the Doctor did together, and so memory of all those things was taken away, leaving her as the awful, vapid woman we first meet. RTD's universe is crueller (Amy may have lost her imaginary friend, but she still has the thing she consistently chose and marked as the most important - Rory) but it's also nicely circular with each of them.

There's only so many ways companions can leave, really. They can die - which is really too traumatic for a much-loved regular on a kids show, and I'll be surprised if they ever do an Adric again - they can be forcibly separated from the Doctor, or they can choose to leave. The middle one was the correct one for Donna. Amy had a few potential exit-points, really. She could've left of her own volition twice - at the end of Series 5, having rescued the Doctor and started her life with Rory - and at the end of The God Complex, where he drops them off to "save them." Once she and Rory came back again after that,t hey really reached the point where the only way they could go was forcibly, as they'd back-and-forthed too much on it at that point, it was clear they'd never really let go unless forced to.

The really sad thing is that Catherine Tate turned around after she'd filmed the end of Series 4 and said to RTD/Julie Gardner "I wish I could do more!" and also begged them to find a way to get her into Sarah Jane Adventures, as it was her kids' favourite show. RTD later cursed this, and said he assumed that after a year she wouldn't want to do any more as compared to all the other New Who companions (even Karen who now has all her roots going down in the US) Catherine is by far the most successful on her own terms - massive-rating comedy sketch shows of her own that she writes & produces as well as stars in and so on, plus kids to care for. He said flat-out if he'd known he'd have kept her for the specials year and found a way to write her out in the Tenth Doctor's final episode instead. It was her saying she'd come back that led to the thought process of having Wilf instead of a one-off companion, though.

I rewatched Blink recently and would be pleased if Moffat brought Sally Sparrow back as a companion.

Her comments on the fandom aside, they'd probably never get her back now anyway, I guess. She's got that big old Hollywood career - she hasn't done a single piece of TV since 2007, the year she did Blink, and most of the productions she's doing now are American. She's too big for the show, I reckon. Who does get the odd Hollywood get, but they tend to be older actors who have less to lose by doing smaller TV projects for fun. Like Hurt, in fact! But, eh. Sally had her story and it had a wonderful finite end. She got her life with Larry and it's nice sometimes to let those characters live in the world that was given to them without revisiting them again.

If anyone from that sort of era, it'll end up being Georgia Moffet (or as she's now being credited, Georgia Tennant!), Jenny. Moffat was the one who asked RTD to change that script so that she lives at the end, and I do slightly wonder if plans to use her in his run were scuppered when against his own plans he ended up casting Matt, because he's only three years older than her and that'd be a weird Father/Daughter relationship no matter how old Matt plays it. She would've made a great third pillar with him and River. Anyway, Capaldi is only a few years younger than Georgia's actual father, so if he wants to revisit that he now can.
 

Tizoc

Member
To expand a little bit - on the day before and of the 50th some stories were in the British newspapers claiming that more episodes had been found, and that they might be announced that night. They ultimately weren't, but the stories were so clean-cut sounding that perhaps they were found and some people at the BBC blabbed to the papers in 50th excitement.

Depending on what source, it couple be one complete serial or multiples. The most common thing that every source seems to 'agree' on is that all seven episodes of Marco Polo, a missing 1st Doctor story, have been found. Not found in the traditional sense, though - allegedly the media fuss over Enemy of the World and The Web of Fear made an old fan check their collection, and they found a copy of Marco Polo they'd recorded off the TV on original airing by pointing a camera at the TV screen directly. The BBC has the original audio for Marco Polo, so allegedly they're cleaning up the visuals from the fan's recording and attaching the original version of the soundtrack to it.

Some other, more shaky rumours suggest that other stories, such as Power of the Daleks, have also been found but will take time to trickle through.

I see, thanks. On the one hand it's possible they found someone or a location that has the missing episodes, but the BBC is in the process or has yet to officially acquire them.
 
Is it really shitty? I don't know. Like, she never would have left, like Rose, like Amy - that's the point of her character. The 'stranded' line was played out with Rose already, and Donna's character was such that she never would have left of her own volition. They could've played a different take of the stranded card - this is what they did with Amy - but even that was less convincing, plot-wise, mechanics, wise, than it was with Rose. The only thing I could've seen her leaving for was Wilf or her mother dying, which would've been even more fucking dark.

While I totally agree that Donna's ending is tragically beautiful I'd disagree with the idea that she wouldn't have left of her own volition. I've always thought Donna begins using the Doctor as a crutch; she doesn't believe she's worth anything or of any import so she hangs around him in the hopes of making herself better. If you think about DoctorDonna its just a big metaphor for the idea of the Doctor slowly taking over her life and making her addicted to this breadth of knowledge.

I think if instead of the whole DoctorDonna part in the finale you'd seen Donna taking charge and looking after people - maybe Wilf gets mildly hurt which affects her decision. And why not use Sarah Jane to verbalise the idea that her life didn't start until she stopped travelling with the Doctor. I can imagine them agreeing to meet again two months down the line but they both know the Doctor will probably miss it by two years. That would also make her whole presence/weird mini arc in The End of Time make more sense.
 
I thought the solution quite tidy myself, with both sides having to negotiate a truce that was totally fair.

Also it's nice to see humans come to terms with another species instead of blowing them up every now and then
 

Nicktendo86

Member
Watching An Adventure in Space and Time with my gf, and we talk about Hartnell's age.

Wikipedia reveals that he was 58 when he left the show, and 67 when he died.

Da fuck? He wasn't that old at all. He's younger than my parents now when he left the show. He looked ancient though! Damn.
An adventure in time and space was magnificent, the best part of the 50th anniversary celebrations IMHO.
 
it's terrible

there are like two or three serials per Doctor at most. Tom Baker maybe has six.

The Aztecs is literally the only thing Amazon has for the first Doctor, and it looks like hulu has the same selection of episodes. What is going ON?

I don't even think that there are any serials for the 6th Doctor.

Final 7 day viewing figures for Day of the Doctor should be out Sunday morning GMT, likely to be around 12.6 million.

1. Voyage of the Damned - Tue 25 Dec 2007 - 13.31 million
2. The Next Doctor - Thu 25 Dec 2008 - 13.10 million
3. The Day of the Doctor - Sat 23 Nov 2013 - 12.6(?) million

4. The End of Time: Part Two - Fri 1 Jan 2010 - 12.27 million
5. A Christmas Carol - Sat 25 Dec 2010 12.11 million
6. The End of Time: Part One - Fri 25 Dec 2009 - 12.04 million
7. Rose - Sat 26 Mar 2005 - 10.81 million
8. The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe - Sun 25 Dec 2011 - 10.77 million
9. Journey's End - Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 10.57 million
10. The Waters of Mars - Sun 15 Nov 2009 - 10.32 million

Voyage of the Damned is near unbeatable for 21st Century Who.

The final ratings for the Day of The Doctor in the UK was 12.8 Million. So slightly higher than expected.
 
[didn't see the above sorry!]

Final rating is 12.8 million

1. Voyage of the Damned - Tue 25 Dec 2007 - 13.31 million
2. The Next Doctor - Thu 25 Dec 2008 - 13.10 million
3. The Day of the Doctor - Sat 23 Nov 2013 - 12.8 million

4. The End of Time: Part Two - Fri 1 Jan 2010 - 12.27 million
5. A Christmas Carol - Sat 25 Dec 2010 12.11 million
6. The End of Time: Part One - Fri 25 Dec 2009 - 12.04 million
7. Rose - Sat 26 Mar 2005 - 10.81 million
8. The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe - Sun 25 Dec 2011 - 10.77 million
9. Journey's End - Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 10.57 million
10. The Waters of Mars - Sun 15 Nov 2009 - 10.32 million

Voyage of the Damned is near unbeatable for 21st Century Who.

The No 1 TV show of the week

16th biggest rating Doctor Who has ever had out of 799 episodes. It's the highest DW rating since 2008.

No 2 show of 2013 so far, behind only the launch of I'm a Celebrity (not inc repeats).
 

Blader

Member
Five years ago I would have been down for a full-time Sally Sparrow, but I'm really tired of Carey Mulligan now.

Depending on what source, it couple be one complete serial or multiples. The most common thing that every source seems to 'agree' on is that all seven episodes of Marco Polo, a missing 1st Doctor story, have been found. Not found in the traditional sense, though - allegedly the media fuss over Enemy of the World and The Web of Fear made an old fan check their collection, and they found a copy of Marco Polo they'd recorded off the TV on original airing by pointing a camera at the TV screen directly. The BBC has the original audio for Marco Polo, so allegedly they're cleaning up the visuals from the fan's recording and attaching the original version of the soundtrack to it.

That's absolutely insane :lol
 
Final rating is 12.8 million

For a show to get nearly 13 million viewers in it's 8th year is amazing.
For a show to get nearly 13 million viewers in its 50th year is incredible.
For a sci-fi drama that was taken off the air and regarded as 'cult' and 'for geeks' to come back and have three episodes around 13 million is pure craziness.
 
That's absolutely insane :lol

I also don't think it's true. I think that story only came about from some reporter not really understanding what they heard. It's more likely that Marco Polo was discovered in the same way as the others (assuming it has been, which sounds likely), and someone misunderstood what telerecorded meant.
 
So in the anniversary special, when the Eleventh says
he has forgotten how many children died on Gallifrey
, that's because
Akhaten ate his memories of the Time War in "The Rings of Akhaten"
, right?
 

Blader

Member
Does Akhaten eating memories actually take away the person's own memories? It's not like the Doctor or Clara suddenly became complete amnesiacs afterward.
 

gabbo

Member
So in the anniversary special, when the Eleventh says
he has forgotten how many children died on Gallifrey
, that's because
Akhaten ate his memories of the Time War in "The Rings of Akhaten"
, right?

You can tell by his agitation during that conversation he's lying to himself, literally and figuratively.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
I don't even think that there are any serials for the 6th Doctor.
It's not quite as bad as I thought, but still not good. Tom Baker is the only classic Doctor they give a crap about

I present to you the entire set of classic Who episodes on Amazon Prime

Hartnell - The Aztecs
Troughton - Tomb of the Cybermen, The Mind Robber
Pertwee - Spearhead from Space, The Three Doctors, Carnival of Monsters
Tom Baker - The Ark in Space, Pyramids of Mars, The Robots of Death, the Talons of Weng-Chiang, Horror of Fang Rock, The Ribos Operation, The Pirate Planet, The Power of Kroll, the Armaggedon Factor, City of Death, Leisure Hive
Davison - Earthshock, The Visitation, The Caves of Androzani
Colin Baker - Vengeance on Varos
McCoy - Ghost Light, the Curse of Fenric

Ugh. UGH.
 

RetroMG

Member
And I'm pretty sure there is only that much of Tom Baker because someone decided to put up the entire Key to Time story.
 
It's not quite as bad as I thought, but still not good. Tom Baker is the only classic Doctor they give a crap about

I present to you the entire set of classic Who episodes on Amazon Prime

Hartnell - The Aztecs
Troughton - Tomb of the Cybermen, The Mind Robber
Pertwee - Spearhead from Space, The Three Doctors, Carnival of Monsters
Tom Baker - The Ark in Space, Pyramids of Mars, The Robots of Death, the Talons of Weng-Chiang, Horror of Fang Rock, The Ribos Operation, The Pirate Planet, The Power of Kroll, the Armaggedon Factor, City of Death, Leisure Hive
Davison - Earthshock, The Visitation, The Caves of Androzani
Colin Baker - Vengeance on Varos
McCoy - Ghost Light, the Curse of Fenric

Ugh. UGH.

A lot of those used to be on Netflix, but they were taken down. It's a shame really. The 50th year of the show, there should be more of those on Netflix, not less.
 
most of the classic episodes on the streaming services are not remastered like the DVDs are, so they look pretty bad.

Oooh, I didn't know the DVDs were remastered -- how noticeable is the difference? I hadn't seen / bought any and just relied on the (pathetic) offerings of the streaming services for my Dr. Who nostalgia fix.
 

Horse Detective

Why the long case?
I was going to make a stupid comment about wishing for a legal method to watch this online, but apparently it will be available in the US on the 10th? Neat.

Forgive me for I am an idiot.
 
Oooh, I didn't know the DVDs were remastered -- how noticeable is the difference? I hadn't seen / bought any and just relied on the (pathetic) offerings of the streaming services for my Dr. Who nostalgia fix.

Difference is very noticeable, especially on the 60s stuff. I haven't watched the stuff on Netflix/Amazon for a while, but was pretty bad last time I looked.


I was going to make a stupid comment about wishing for a legal method to watch this online, but apparently it will be available in the US on the 10th? Neat.

It's been on iTunes since Sunday, probably on Amazon too.
 
Oooh, I didn't know the DVDs were remastered -- how noticeable is the difference? I hadn't seen / bought any and just relied on the (pathetic) offerings of the streaming services for my Dr. Who nostalgia fix.

I don't know what the streaming services offer, but the restoration work needed on some of the older eps (especially ones recovered) was very extensive. A team of people have been restoring eps for over twenty years now, sometimes doing the same episode multiple times as new technology has been invented that would lead to a substantial improvement in video/audio.

They have notes on every release they've done up until a few months ago here:

http://www.restoration-team.co.uk/
 
So yeah, I stopped watching the new series after Smith second season. Giving it up as never reaching any semblance of quality. I thought that with Moffat in the head chair his series would be much better than the RTD era stuff.

I kept watching it hoping it would get "good" because with the premise as unique as Doctor Who it had to at some point. It turns out when gifted the head writing duty Moffat's stuff is even worse. His one-off episodes during RTD's run stood out as being passable but it turns out that was only the case because the rest of the stuff was dross.

I tuned into the 50th to see how things have changed since my departure. On the surface it seemed okay: big props to Hurt for actually resembling someone who could act, a pleasant change from the freshfaced buffoons whom he had to play off. Hell I even enjoyed some of the doctor interplay - trite as it was. That is really all I have to say that was positive about it though. Where to begin on the rest...

First off the main point of the story, undoing the "Moment" This for me is exactly what is wrong with the logic of the new who stuff. Doesn't that mean that the timelord couldn't come back through the Master's actions in Tennant's last story? (Don't get me started on that load) And mean that Tennant couldn't then go through with his regeneration. The Moment had to used otherwise that story wouldn't happen. It's this disrespect for what narrative come before (no matter how stupid) that makes me hate the new stuff. It's like how they play fast and loose with fixed points in time - a concept that makes no sense anyway - there shouldn't be any and saying that there are things that can't be changed adds peril to situation what shouldn't have any.

With all this tripping over canon why not just reboot it and create a new story with a more modern understand of what time interference would cause. What have currently is abstract nonsense and double talk. Timey Whimey bullshit. Timey Whimey isn't an explanation - it's lazy. If they can't think of a way to logically tie up a story don't tell that story.

On top of that Moffat doesn't seem to respect his own canon. The Screwdriver equation thing pissed me off because they say that the three different screwdrivers are the same device, just different shells. This isn't the case as the one Tennant is using was destroyed in Smith's first story. So they can't be the same thing running the same equation. It's sloppy careless writing, it could be cover by saving the tardis is working it out and the screwdriver can just connect with it on some digital cloud bullshit and that would be fine , lazy, but it would make sense. And using that same trick to bring all the other doctors in at the end when some of them didn't have screwdrivers as well! If he can't keep this stuff straight why the fuck is he writing a show about time travel.

On top of that if they are bring in the 12th doctor, why not the 13th and so on and so on. Don't open a can of worms like that unless you can explain why they decided that to save Gallifrey they only needed 13 tardis and doctors. Also you can't put another doctor in and not class him as a doctor I don't care what bullshit they tell interviewers. Hurt's doctor is a valid regeneration and so has to be counted as a canonical one. You can't keep calling Smith the 11th and Tennant the 10th. They should all move along or they shouldn't have done it.

Also why is a "time war" being fought on the ground with surprisingly earth-like soldiers and battle tatics? Timelords have tardis tech. All Timelords. They should be battling across time not in a strange ground assault where writing on walls with guns changes the coarse of a battle. With civilians running around like idiots. If you can't show this idea well, don't try. There is a reason we never saw the time war. It's hard to even conceive let alone depict. Isn't it canon that it was started by the Timelords sending the doctor to kill of the daleks in "Genesis of the daleks"?

Why are the timelord now sympathetic? I'll tell you why because the story dictated that they needed to be. They were locked away by the doctor for good reason or so we are told in Tennant's last run. but here it's all "How many Children, blah, blah, blah!"

How time travel is treated really pisses me off. Locking off areas or location of time for narrative reasons like cast members leaving or older incarnations of the doctor doesn't make any sense. Don't lose people in time if you can't find smart ways to keep the doctor from returning. When some writer wants to use that location the doctor can't travel to in another episodes they have to make up some more bullshit to make it so they can't visit the stranded companions.

I find as I'm reading over what I've put here I've writing something of a scattergun of what is wrong in my eyes with Doctor Who currently. My issue is I don't know where to start quite honestly with what doesn't work.

The music is too bombastic one moment and too twinkly the next and is a crutch the show limps on. Being used rather than performances to dictate how the audience should feel. Emotional moments as so rarely earned and feel forced and hokey. The acting is terrible, the effects vary from passable to downright awful.

There is now never any peril. In a show that is there on some level to be scary and adventurous there have to be risk and lose. When characters do die, we haven't known them long enough to care or they have outstayed their welcome.The messianic nature of the doctor and how people perceive him as deep and wise isn't earned or shown to happen, its based on action we haven't really seen.

And what is worst no one seems to notice. The show gets praise and ratings and an audience and a loyal fanbase. And I don't know why. I also hate how the main excuse for these issues is that it's a kid's show. I'm sorry but saying that is a disservice to children. That shouldn't be an excuse for bad writing or truncated plots or themes. There are plenty of kid's show that aim for more. This show doesn't it doesn't really have an aim as far as I can tell. It's mindless and dull.

What irks me more is that Moffat and Gatiss are good writers. Sherlock and An Adventure in Time and Space are examples of fantastic British television. Where casting, acting and writing is top notch and moments of growth and character are earned and rewarding for the audience. Why not turn that logic in narrative, skill in character interaction and subtle use of visual trickery to Who?

58b60830d26ef5b1f63fd4edb732fe5c220cba41465f207836d5bf861c5ece40.jpg
 
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