Fess
Member
Okay that's just plain depressing
They look empty, drained of joy, is it because of the plagiarism chat or negative gameplay feedback or both?
Forbes: Marathon Info - Bungie's "Morale is in “free-fall” - “The vibes have never been worse.”
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
Okay that's just plain depressing
They look empty, drained of joy, is it because of the plagiarism chat or negative gameplay feedback or both?
Negotiator101
Member
I'd say they haven't even got that luxury and if Marathon fails they're in big trouble.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Oh they are just dead insideOkay that's just plain depressing
kevboard
Member
Okay that's just plain depressing
it's a perfect storm of bad news for them I guess.
first you had the alpha, which bled players extremely fast.
then Arc Raiders completely stole their show and people couldn't get enough of it.
then the art theft...
I didn't think so a few weeks ago, but now I wouldn't discount the possibility that Marathon will indeed be a complete financial failure for them, and I think they have come to the same realisation.
Fess
Member
Arc Raiders looked good even for me who don't play online. But as always, no single player campaign, no real interest.
As for Marathon it's the same there. They need a sp campaign. They're fully capable of doing it, unless they've lost all sold Halo devs. But they would need to delay it. Which is needed either way if the hype bubble has popped during the alpha.
both have a good chance lmao
kevboard
Member
having single player missions would have been a decent differentiating factor. but I'm not sure if that's a change that's within the scope of even a long delay.
but such a differentiating factor is something the needs. the only real concept behind Marathon that makes it different so far is that it is extremely simplified, and I'm not sure that's a good thing in this genre.
I don't think a full "classic" campaign would work in this genre, but PvE missions with some narrative structure would totally be a great idea I think... but it might be too late for that now
Fess
Member
New "Hello darkness my old friend" meme basically. Especially the art director. Total apathy on display.
I hope they can pick themselves up somehow, and that Sony allow them to do it. They need to delay the game.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Access to info and tech analysis has done such a number on game dev. They're worried about the most minute details impacting sales. Probably because of dumb shit like puddle gate
cripterion
Member
No problem here , like what you want, more of a generational gap with you guys liking console FPS.
Nothing wrong with that.
And hey if they're headed in the right direction with that tight gameplay from Halo and Destiny that is oh so praised, the studio has nothing to worry about, right?
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StreetsofBeige
Member
Schmendrick
Banned
With what Bungie has become that`s a
from me.
from me.
MrCunningham
Member
Hopefully their bungee cord doesn't snap on their descension...
Honey Bunny
Member
The difference in quality between this and arc raiders is astonishing
Bernardougf
Member
Pudde gate ... thats genius
64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
can it, use some of the resources and animations to make a new single player/co-op shooter. I think that would be fun- if you want some gaas money maybe you can tack on a multiplayer shooter element later
you can ask Sony for some bailout money
you can ask Sony for some bailout money
Hollywood Hitman
Gold Member
They only have themselves to blame. Imo bungie is one of the most stupid studios out there, in a genre that is tough as nails to sustain and break into, they had the golden goose of live service games in which any company would kill to have. A game series that could've went another 10 years or more, with a fanbase clamoring for more and would've absolutely devoured a Destiny 3 myself included. But not only did they pass on imo one of the greatest live service games, they put d2 on auto pilot and abandoned a huge portion of the game all in favor of putting a huge portion onto a super niche genre that is not really what people are asking for, not to the degree they think.
If D3 was on its way people would be absolutely pumped. Marathon is imo already dead in the water, the whole plagerism is just icing on the cake, I personally think Sony eventually let's them go one day, bungie of old is gone.. They aren't who they used to be.
If D3 was on its way people would be absolutely pumped. Marathon is imo already dead in the water, the whole plagerism is just icing on the cake, I personally think Sony eventually let's them go one day, bungie of old is gone.. They aren't who they used to be.
LavitzSlambert
Member
More fallout from the Jimbo era. It took a while, but we are seeing the full extent of bone headed decisions he and his management team made, and that Hurst is complacent with.
Marathon is done for. I don't see any sustained interest for this going forward if they delay, and releasing now is basically suicide for the game. They arrived too late, with little to no substance, and the only competitive advantage they have is stolen visuals.
Marathon is done for. I don't see any sustained interest for this going forward if they delay, and releasing now is basically suicide for the game. They arrived too late, with little to no substance, and the only competitive advantage they have is stolen visuals.
Liopleurodon
Member
I wonder if they have some other Concords ready for announcement when the time is just right.
You know before the Concord release Herman was hyping up Sony's GAAS roadmap to board members
"We are releasing a tour de force of genre defining live service games. First a Concord, then Marathin, and finally Fairgame$. We are projecting sales records being broken with each release."
"We are releasing a tour de force of genre defining live service games. First a Concord, then Marathin, and finally Fairgame$. We are projecting sales records being broken with each release."
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Boss Mog
Member
When this game fails, they will try to use the plagiarism controversy as an excuse but I guarantee you that most gamers couldn't care less about it. They only look at the game itself and on that front the game looks bad and is not fun at all to play, and that's why it will fail.
StreetsofBeige
Member
They did the same thing during the PS3 generation when they went hard on shooters.
Resistance, KZ, Socoms, Warhawk/Starhawk, MAG. Probaly some more I missed. And there were also sequels in the there too.
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bighugeguns
Member
Anyone familiar with French sci-fi artistic legend Moebius would never have been impressed with Destiny or Bungie, it was practically wholesale just a straight up cheap ripoff of his works. Only thing Bungie does is steal from actual talent alive or dead to create soulless microtransaction vehicles propped up by marketing money. They aren't creative, they're pretty dishonest money sharks.
I really don't get the reverence for that studio; Halo was a very long time ago.
It's like Blizzard, so okay the guys from way back then did some cool shit, but both Blizzard and Bungie would be entirely incapable today of creating anything remotely as impressive as their best legacy projects. It seems that only a few key people within groups of hundreds or thousands absolutely carry these companies and soon as they leave due to retirement or whatever the output immediately goes to shit, it's actually fascinating.
I really don't get the reverence for that studio; Halo was a very long time ago.
It's like Blizzard, so okay the guys from way back then did some cool shit, but both Blizzard and Bungie would be entirely incapable today of creating anything remotely as impressive as their best legacy projects. It seems that only a few key people within groups of hundreds or thousands absolutely carry these companies and soon as they leave due to retirement or whatever the output immediately goes to shit, it's actually fascinating.
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StreetsofBeige
Member
If I was Bungie people wanting to keep a job, I'd be talking to Sony SIE management for a studio transfer. Things will hit the shitter soon.
Morale might be in free-fall now, but it'll bounce back. That's Bungie.
One of those head Concord guys did that. I dont remember if the game servers were still going or if the game was just shut down, but one Firewalk head announced he got a job transfer to SIE even writing a farewell tweet. Guy bailed on his own studio while everyone else was in limbo.
And then a month later, Firewalk was totally shut down.
So Bungie people be proactive. Start nosing around for new jobs internal or external. Your call where, but dont wait unless you want to do the severance package route and then look for a job after.
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bighugeguns
Member
It's pretty lame that Sony would be willing to re-absorb resources responsible for producing bombs. I'd get it if it were non creative resources, but shuffling around awful decision makers who make shit means you're just eternally loading whatever else the corporation is working on with the same suckiness.
StreetsofBeige
Member
The guy was Ryan Ellis too. Firewalk Creative Director. SIE took him in. Crazy, since the first thing everyone thinks about being bad about concord were the lousy characters and colour pallette.
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bighugeguns
Member
Maybe it's nepotism, got a friend high up in the company to bail him out out of a garbage/DOA project, that sucks for Sony's fanbase, you're just kicking the can down the road, he'll be sending emails up the chain to be transferred from the next project he helps fuck up.
That's a hell of a lot of prolonged and sustained unknown financial damage to Playstation just to keep your buddies around.
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Killjoy-NL
Member
And in hindsight, people demand those franchises again because "they were amazing".
But at the time people were bitching all the time as well and largely ignored most of those games, leading to Sony moving away from KZ and Resistance and shutting down Zipper and Icognito.
StreetsofBeige
Member
They ignored them because there were too many to focus on. Similar to their recent GAAS strategy, instead of shotgunning a ton of games and studios, how about focus on making 1 or 2 really good ones with a focus. Back then, MS, EA and Activision only had a couple big shooter IPs. I think Activision was just COD until Overwatch came.
Sony's recent approach is so bad, they got more cancelled GAAS games and studios then launched. And even for Concord (which was supposed to be their big budget flagship GAAS) they didn't have a SP mode or all that background lore stuff ready that was supposed to get gamers into it. The just rushed it out.
The best thing Bungie/Sony can do at this point is just cancel Marathon altogether. There's pretty much no hype or positive buzz left for this game. It's obvious to everyone the game's DOA.
Sega did the right thing when they cancelled Hyenas two years ago. Yes it lead to bad layoffs at Creative Assembly, but it would've been far worse if they stuck to that game. CA might've gone under completely, and as a big fan of Total War I'd be devastated by that.
But is Bungie willing to make such a drastic decision? We'll see...
Sega did the right thing when they cancelled Hyenas two years ago. Yes it lead to bad layoffs at Creative Assembly, but it would've been far worse if they stuck to that game. CA might've gone under completely, and as a big fan of Total War I'd be devastated by that.
But is Bungie willing to make such a drastic decision? We'll see...
Killjoy-NL
Member
But the thing is, Sony is likely aiming for 1 or 2 successfull ones, hence why they have multiple projects in the works.
I have no idea why people keep ignoring statements like the one from Jim Ryan when he said that Sony isn't so naive to think everything will be a success and that the distinction between a hit and flop isn't a binary one.
Jim Ryan: Narrative Rich Games Will Remain the Bedrock of PlayStation's 1st-Party Lineup
PlayStation CEO Jim Ryan in a Q&A session with analysts from 2022 that were included with the recent [...]
www.vgchartz.com
No doubt that Sony realized from the start that there would be cancellations and flops.
bighugeguns
Member
The implication of Concord itself is still very disturbing. The fact that Playstation, a group of professional paid people, thought it was hot shit is an even bigger emerging loss than the game itself bombing, it means Playstaiton itself has run out of talented decision makers almost entirely.
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StreetsofBeige
Member
Well, then how come in history MS, EA, Activision dont make a million shooter IPs hoping 1 wins out? During that era, Sony made more shooter IPs than I think EA, MS, Activision combined.But the thing is, Sony is likely aiming for 1 or 2 successfull ones, hence why they have multiple projects in the works.
I have no idea why people keep ignoring statements like the one from Jim Ryan when he said that Sony isn't so naive to think everything will be a success and that the distinction between a hit and flop isn't a binary one.
Jim Ryan: Narrative Rich Games Will Remain the Bedrock of PlayStation's 1st-Party Lineup
PlayStation CEO Jim Ryan in a Q&A session with analysts from 2022 that were included with the recent [...]
No doubt that Sony realized from the start that there would be cancellations and flops.
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Killjoy-NL
Member
That was on Shuhei Yoshida, who is no longer at Sony.
He also thought Demon's Souls had shit gameplay and nobody would want to play that kind of game.
bighugeguns
Member
I'm sure it's not just one source, it's like any catastrophe, there's normally a cascade of failures that align to create a disaster. I think there's a lot of senior people at Playstation who really shouldn't be doing what they're doing because it's very evident in the products they produce and it's not pretty at all.
There has been no evidence Playstation is turning away from this either, it's not just the GAAS thing, they suck creatively, they aren't cool anymore. The dorks in charge of Playstation have no idea what they're doing, or they do? Whatever, it's not my job to care.
Think the macro consequences of all of this stupid bullshit is Nintendo crushing Sony's nuts entirely in the Switch 2 gen.
Sony needs to do some kind of talent scouting program to find these mythical unicorn people out there who actually instinctively know if something is cool and not gay and lame, that seems to be a critical missing component these days across a lot of these businesses.
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StreetsofBeige
Member
The dumb thing wasnt even just a bad game that was pulled.
But the way they handled the surrounding parts like not telling or showing gamers what it was till late, no beta test till 2 weeks before launch, and it's supposed to be a big story driven shooter like SW or GOTG lore, yet didnt have that shit ready or even a SP campaign to get people into it.
It was so odd, they even had an Amazon video. I didnt watch it, but I think people said it didnt even involve the current cast of characters in the game. So how would that even link up for gamers to care about that video.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Different times.
Also, people have been discussing how competitive the gaas-scene is, so it's much harder to get a foot in there.
And Sony also has non-shooter gaas in development, so it's not like they're only focussing on that genre.
Games like KZ and Resistance also were about singleplayer as well.
But I don't work at Sony, so I don't know what they discuss behind closed doors.
I'm mostly going by statements they've put out over the years
Killjoy-NL
Member
That's an industry-wide problem though.
bighugeguns
Member
Yep, kept thinking about Xbox while writing too. Lots of parties big and small are guilty of this terrible shit. Maybe the money involved in AAA just constantly attracts complete and utter creatively useless opportunistic dickheads, in Sony's case these cliques seem to be so embedded in structures that you see incidents like that creative director guy just bailing on the project and starting again on something else WITHIN THE SAME UMBRELLA COMPANY! It just looks so bad.
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StreetsofBeige
Member
In gaming, you got a combo of successful games that are tried and true, and also innovative ones. Just comes down to which kind of game they want to make.
Any time a studio wants to be edgy, follow a hot topic, or inject politics, it may work or it may be doomed. Making it tougher is by the time the game comes out in 4 or 5 years the fad might be over.
But some kind of games/settings seem to forever be accepted..... sports, medieval dragon and skeleton kinds of RPGs, I dont think 2D plane fighting games have really been that innovative (heck half the character roster is probably the same ones from the 90s), more grounded shooter games, any core Nintendo franchises, more realistic sim-cade racers etc....
So there are some kinds of games or genres that have holding power among the masses across decades.
But once a studio tries to get a little wacky or edgy, it's high risk, high reward. And it doesn't even have to involve big budgets. Balatro is a weird game made by a handful of people I think. By the way it looks, plays and sounds, it looks like whomever made it was stoned half the time. It looks like something that could be made on Windows 3.1. But a hit indie game at a budget price.
Nydius
Member
I have no idea why people keep ignoring statements like the one from Jim Ryan when he said that Sony isn't so naive to think everything will be a success and that the distinction between a hit and flop isn't a binary one.
No doubt that Sony realized from the start that there would be cancellations and flops.Jim Ryan: Narrative Rich Games Will Remain the Bedrock of PlayStation's 1st-Party Lineup
PlayStation CEO Jim Ryan in a Q&A session with analysts from 2022 that were included with the recent [...]
I've said it before and I'll say it again: This behavior of "we only need one live service to hit" is a degenerate gambler mindset, not good business strategy.
Spending hundreds of millions of dollars on live service IPs hoping one will eventually be a billion dollar success that wipes out all the past failures is the same kind of bad strategy as a guy spending his entire paycheck on video poker machines because "just one jackpot and I'm set for life". In reality, he loses his entire paycheck and can't make his bills.
(This isn't really directed at you Killjoy, just quoting you for ease of reference.)
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Killjoy-NL
Member
I don't think they are after one major hit. They're probably fine with a few decent successes.
Seems to me that their main goal is keeping people engaged within the Playstation eco-system, reducing their reliance on 3rd party, as well as extra continuous revenue.
Seeing how they just had their most profitable FY ever, these recent cancellations and Concord-disaster doesn't really seem to have much of a negative impact.
Not yet anyway.
I didn't take it as directed at me.
solidus12
Member
I hope for Sony ditching Bungie altogether.
StreetsofBeige
Member
The funny thing is they did get a recent hit. Helldivers 2 has sold something 15M copies.
But because they've spent so much money on bungie, concord and whatever other games and studios cancelled the past few years, one big hit isn't even enough.
They need probably 3 or 4 Helldivers 2 success stories just to break even.
But not surprisingly, when they said one hit game, they meant a Fortnite level kind of game.
Out of all the big money games out there, there's only so many big shooter ones out of the 20 years of shooter games. Some of the big gaas games aren't even shooters. But Sonys focus on new gaas games are almost all shooters. So even though they want to gung ho on gaas, they are putting almost all their eggs into one genre too.
Crazy.
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Killjoy-NL
Member
Going by this, Sony generated ~$865M in sales on non-PS platforms alone in 2024.
It doesn't seem like these cancellations and Concord cause the situation for Playstation to be dire at all.
Probably going to be a few setbacks at worst.
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