Ghost of Yotei creative director says "the cognitive overload of all of the systems and all the buttons on the controller can be quite intense"

LectureMaster

LectureMaster

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Ghost of Yotei creative director says "the cognitive overload of all of the systems and all the buttons on the controller can be quite intense"

Sucker Punch's Jason Connell says "this is actually a real challenge when you're making the game"
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Developers need to strike the right balance to not overwhelm players (and controllers) with too many buttons and verbs when making combat-heavy games because, as Ghost of Yotei's creative director Jason Connell explains, you run the risk of "cognitive overload."

Speaking to GamesRadar+ about how to manage the complexity of combat as you unlock more weapons and abilities, Connell admitted "the cognitive overload of all of the systems and all the buttons on the controller can be quite intense, and honestly, this is actually a real challenge when you're making the game."

Connell went on to say that "when you're making [a feature], you're working on the thing" and "you don't have the play experience of somebody... like 60 hours [in]." So when it comes time to playtest something, the experience can get pretty overwhelming.

"But you have to remember that somebody started off with just the katana, and then maybe they got dual katanas, and then maybe they skipped the odachi, and then went a while without getting a weapon, and then they got the Kusarigama. It's many hours sometimes in between these, and they have a lot of time to be like, 'OK, I'm gonna switch between one weapon, OK, now I'm gonna switch between two weapons.' It's not typically the case, what we find when making it, like you go from one to five, and suddenly you're just like, doing the pretzel hands, trying to figure out exactly what to do and how to do it under intense combat," Connell continued.


How does Sucker Punch get over this hurdle? Naturally, they playtest a ton and think of it like a pressure cooker: "'Do we need a pressure relief valve? Do we need to create interesting curveballs?' Being disarmed is like the ultimate curve ball, right?... So we're constantly monitoring 'are we overloaded, are we not overloaded, do we need to actually add some excitement into the mix?'"

The whole process "goes through many years of thoughtful consideration by a very specific team that only focuses on this," according to Connell, perhaps explaining why Yotei doesn't feel unmanageable, even when you have more weapons than Atsu could realistically fit in her pocket.
 
all this can be mitigated by having intuitive design.

and I saw they still have that stupid rock-paper-scissors combat design, and I also already saw twitter posts of people getting annoyed by the text popup ordering you to change the combat style if you dare to use the wrong one too often 🤣

maybe, you know... don't do that? it's crap design in the best of days. just let people use the weapons they like, and don't balance everything around constant brain-dead weapon switching. same crap that DmC did with its red and blue enemies 😖

not having that constant weapon switching would instantly make the game less overwhelming... and also better... for free!
 
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LectureMaster said:
Developers need to strike the right balance to not overwhelm players (and controllers) with too many buttons and verbs when making combat-heavy games because, as Ghost of Yotei's creative director Jason Connell explains, you run the risk of "cognitive overload."
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Too many verbs!

I can relate. I've got enough to think about without having to "master" a set of complicated controls. It's one reason I avoid the more fast-paced and complex action games. I just don't want to devote the cognitive resources necessary to memorizing all the different prompts and combos. I appreciate devs who keep things relatively simple.
 
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To be honest... Generally speaking, he is right. Since the number of actions are limited by the number of fingers a human being has (obvious, but the obvious must be written sometimes) companies must rely on button combinations that... sometimes make ' simple' actions a chore and simply to confusing.
 
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I swear articles like these exist for AAA devs to self-glaze how hard their job is, with the journo as the backup fluffer.

Ghost of Tsushima is a fun game, but nothing they've showcased for this new entry added much complexity to an already pretty simple combat system. It's controls well, it feels good to use, and it has enough challenge to be interesting...but the weapons are simple, the combo complexity is below average character action games, and the controls are very forgiving of user error.

There aren't enough systems to even overload the player.
 
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PauloRoberto said:
To be honest... Generally speaking, he is right. Since the number of actions are limited by the number of fingers a human being has (obvious, but the obvious must be written sometimes) companies must rely on button combinations that... sometimes make ' simple' actions a chore and simply to confusing.
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I disagree. Number of actions are limited by developer imagination and talent.
 
Hero_Select said:
Isn't it reviewing and selling better than the original? Lol
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no and no

GoT has 92 users score and GoY has 86, consumer prefers the first game, also, GoT has 97% on critics recommend on Open critic while GoY has 94%, critics also prefer GoT.

Also, sales wise, Tsushima sold 2.4M in the first 3 days, GoY 2M in the first 3 days.

Lol at you
 
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Lokaum D+ said:
no and no

GoT has 92 users score on Meta, GoY has 86, consumer prefer the first game, also, GoT has 97% on critics recommend on Open critic while GoY has 94%.

Also, sales wise, Tsushima sold 2.4M in the first 3 days, GoY 2M in the first 3 days is the information we have atm

Lol at you
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I'm not a fan of either game. Only played the first one and barely put 10 hrs in.

Ya'll just can't wait to jump on someone lmfao
 
Complication is never the problem, tediousness is the real problem.

That's why Nioh 2 is the Goat even if it has an overwhelming set of subsystems. But none of them feel forced, all organically integrated into the combat with insane depth.

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CentralScrutinizer said:
I disagree. Number of actions are limited by developer imagination and talent.
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We both know this is lie. If your game has lots of actions, or you use with with context and curse the devs because you wanted to do something and did other thing completely different (Tears of the Kingdom had this problem) or get confused by pressiong the buttons on the wrong order (Elden Ring had this problem with the 'grab weapon or shield with two hands'). Simple examples.
 
Angry_Megalodon said:
Nope. Which doesn't mean it's a failure, but it's less sucessful than GoT, by quite the margin. Scores mean nothing.

As for the "many buttons", it is nonsense. This game is very basic compared to Death Stranding, RDR 2 or BOTW, let alone the upcoming Crimson Desert. Those are complex games.
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Who's the girl in your profile pic 🤔
 
Angry_Megalodon said:
As for the "many buttons", it is nonsense. This game is very basic compared to Death Stranding, RDR 2 or BOTW, let alone the upcoming Crimson Desert. Those are complex games.
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That's the point he's making though. The game has 5 melee weapons - that you can switch between on the fly mid combat, mid combo -, the ability to pick up and throw enemy weapons, and a bunch of "throwables", ranged weapons, etc.

They managed to make it all work flawlessly with - for the most part - 2 buttons.

Durin said:
I swear articles like these exist for AAA devs to self-glaze how hard their job is, with the journo as the backup fluffer.

Ghost of Tsushima is a fun game, but nothing they've showcased for this new entry added much complexity to an already pretty simple combat system. It's controls well, it feels good to use, and it has enough challenge to be interesting...but the weapons are simple, the combo complexity is below average character action games, and the controls are very forgiving of user error.

There aren't enough systems to even overload the player.
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Yes, they avoided the pitfall of potentially overloading users. Anyone can pick up this game, mash some buttons and come away feeling like a badass for parrying countering, etc. And if you've played the game and done the Takezo fight, you know how challenging it can b for those who want the challenge.

They did a very good job with this game, and they deserve to brag a little bit if they want to.
 
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PauloRoberto said:
We both know this is lie. If your game has lots of actions, or you use with with context and curse the devs because you wanted to do something and did other thing completely different (Tears of the Kingdom had this problem) or get confused by pressiong the buttons on the wrong order (Elden Ring had this problem with the 'grab weapon or shield with two hands'). Simple examples.
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This no is lie. Agree disagree.
 
LectureMaster said:
That's why Nioh 2 is the Goat even if it has an overwhelming set of subsystems. But none of them feel forced, all organically integrated into the combat with insane depth.
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Oh Yeah GIF by Jesse Ling


Once you learn the systems...usually through practice and playing the game it all flows together nicely. Though I think it's a bit overkill to compare Nioh 2 to GoY.

Especially with a combat system where any boss that bullies you, you can bully them back since both bosses and the Player use the same system.

Tecmo Koei action games are a different ballgame.
 
Loomy said:
Yes, they avoided the pitfall of potentially overloading users. Anyone can pick up this game, mash some buttons and come away feeling like a badass for parrying countering, etc. And if you've played the game and done the Takezo fight, you know how challenging it can b for those who want the challenge.

They did a very good job with this game, and they deserve to brag a little bit if they want to.
Click to expand...

Eh, I just don't think it was that hard a pitfall to avoid. The combat is polished and serviceable to the fantasy, more than the systems themselves are deep and/or numerous enough to put much of a burden on the player even if the controls were bad.

I bulldozed through the first game on its hardest difficulty without feeling like I needed to master or use quite a few of its systems, because most enemy types have pretty limited, predictable and easy to counter move-sets...and duels + boss fights only added a few tricks. This new entry iterates more than it transforms the combat, substituting stance switching with weapon switching.
 
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I mean they are absolutely right, there is a reason that games such as Nintendo games and indie games are so popular among expanded gaming populations, and that is because they deliberately and explicitly try to address this very issue. Even a game as "difficult" as Hollow Knight keeps things very simple in terms of active verbs in game, and the buttons that map to them.

It's nice to see Ghost of Yotei take this into account. I have not yet played much of the game so I am not sure how good a job it does with it, but even awareness and acknowledgment of the problem is a gigantic step that most developers (and gamers) fail to take.
 
Sony/Ubisoft games are probably the best at streamlining systems and gameplay. This is why it's relatively easy to pick up and play them well. But sometimes too much focus/play testing makes evrething feel the same
 
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