Support NeoGAF

[Agnostic2020]

Imagine if ps5 is 9.2 TFs and actual has more power than the Xbox with its supposed 12 like all the insiders are stating and ms is just perpetrating the fanboy message that it's 12 rnda flops when in fact it's 9.

There has to be a reason Phil didn't confirm when asked directly by a shilling partner if it was 12 tflops given he said twice the GPU power of Xbox one X.

Obviously this is just one scenario that could play out. That is if you believe people commenting from a position of knowledge is sourced from people actually writing games on both machines rather than people putting all there stock in twitter fame hunters and leaked documents they have absolutely no context for.

I don’t believe that scenario . Why would he want that type of backlash around the time console would launch ? ( when spec data is put out )

No company wants such negative press around their brand new hardware launch.

Xsx is 12 RDna tf

book it

they r not mentioning numbers because that would make XSS look bad next to XSx . They don’t want to devalue their best selling version

 

[R600]

Keep it in mind that SOC containing Zen2 and Navi with RT at 9.2TF will EASILY push 200W. Thats more then any console released (bigger then PS3, 360 and even X).

So I wouldnt exactly say 9.2TF is small number. Its high and more optimistic then any they released, but the fact is people are comparing it to 2nd SKU Xbox, and that SKU is more of a PC then console.

I said it months ago, if they come out with 9-10TF Navis and RT I would be super impressed. And here we are, even rumor of that one makes people disappointed.

 

[XcloudTimdog]

Imagine if ps5 is 9.2 TFs and actual has more power than the Xbox with its supposed 12 like all the insiders are stating and ms is just perpetrating the fanboy message that it's 12 rnda flops when in fact it's 9.

There has to be a reason Phil didn't confirm when asked directly by a shilling partner if it was 12 tflops given he said twice the GPU power of Xbox one X.

Obviously this is just one scenario that could play out. That is if you believe people commenting from a position of knowledge is sourced from people actually writing games on both machines rather than people putting all there stock in twitter fame hunters and leaked documents they have absolutely no context for.

All you can do is imagine, xbox is rdna 12 tflops, not this gcn theory. If mod of war wants more evidence i have it. I think this is silly this is being suggested

 

[Agnostic2020]

All you can do is imagine, xbox is rdna 12 tflops, not this gcn theory. If mod of war wants more evidence i have it. I think this is silly this is being suggested

Haha Forget it man . People will keep saying that even if u show it to them lol . Let them be but anyone who thinks about it knows it’s 12 Navi TF.

Again no company wants backlash around their launchof new product . Phil would not re tweet the gamespot article where it mentions 12 Navi tf if it wasn’t correct.

he just doesn’t want to say it cause then he has to say the TF for xss and that would devalue the better selling version (12 vs 4) . It’s a marketing tactic.

 

[Bryank75]

All you can do is imagine, xbox is rdna 12 tflops, not this gcn theory. If mod of war wants more evidence i have it. I think this is silly this is being suggested

I hope it is, it would be great for gaming and to push Sony and Nintendo forward!

 

[DJ12]

All you can do is imagine, xbox is rdna 12 tflops, not this gcn theory. If mod of war wants more evidence i have it. I think this is silly this is being suggested

I'm just thinking of situations where everyone can be right. Because ps5 being 9+ TFs and also having better performance than Xbox with its 12 tflops isn't really possible which is what all commentators are saying actual Devs are telling them not just one spec sheet of one of the consoles and hopes and dreams about the other. We all like to believe in special sauce but no way has any of it ever made up that kind of deficit in power.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Its questionable if Sony designed PS4 OS and PS4 hardware with future BC in mind. Xbox Consoles and Xbox OS were designed with future BC in mind. Sony's solution to BC sounds very complicated and not standard.

I think PS4 changed the tide on that.

 

[XcloudTimdog]

I'm just thinking of situations where everyone can be right. Because ps5 being 9+ TFs and also having better performance than Xbox with its 12 tflops isn't really possible which is what all commentators are saying actual Devs are telling them not just one spec sheet of one of the consoles and hopes and dreams about the other. We all like to believe in special sauce but no way has any of it ever made up that kind of deficit in power.

Xbox could be 599 for all we know

 

[PocoJoe]

Maybe something on there for PS 1/2/3 compatibility?

Highly unlikely that they would fuck up ps5 performance because of ps1/2/3/4.

That would not make any sense. Ps1+2+4 are the easiest, ps3 maybe harder to emulate but thry have their tricks

 

[Aceofspades]

When is CES 2020? Don't hold your breath on any PS5 info there, Sony usually reveals TVs and Phones at CES. They will mske a special grand event for PS5 later .

 

[Agnostic2020]

When is CES 2020? Don't hold your breath on any PS5 info there, Sony usually reveals TVs and Phones at CES. They will mske a special grand event for PS5 later .

Jan 6. No ?
And yes for sure nothing is related to ps5 . Otherwise PS tweeter and insta and blog would ask people to tune in to watch it .
In Jan They will give a teaser for the ps meeting in February with the date .

 

[cormack12]

When is CES 2020? Don't hold your breath on any PS5 info there, Sony usually reveals TVs and Phones at CES. They will mske a special grand event for PS5 later .

6th or 7th jan iirc - also from r/ps5



It's unlikely to get PS5 at CES, but Barlogs first CES in the same year as a new gen drop? Might be nothing, might be something

 

[henau212]

It is indeed clear that it was a 36CU chip used in that particular test, yup. Think about it, if Sony needed AMD to kitbash together a powerful devkit roughly 2 years out from launch and AMD's preparing their new Navi chips then why not use those in the devkit until they can get a proper APU up and running for the next revision? So in the early low speed kit we see a 5700 equivalent chip that's been clocked higher for use in the devkit and it gets up to 9.2 TF. For the next devkit they're able to get an APU going that's closer to the final product and we now have the V shaped devkits.

As I said, it seems to fit the timelines and the rumors absolutely perfectly. Anyways, I'm not going to try and convince you. It's a theory that I like and will continue to run with until we hear something that negates it.

But this is not how it works. Early devkits consist of off the shelf Hardware with a software SDK. No testing of the hardware required.
The first stepping of the APU is usually low power. Then they fix bugs etc and new steppings are evolving, which both amd and Sony are testing. Those APUs will be fix from a feature perspective (so no new CUs). Sony will even build kits around those components simulating the console. That could be the low performance devkit Cerny was talking about. Those kits will be Sony internal though. Some parts line RT might even be not working because of bugs etc.
In the end, when those APUs are near final, they will replace the off the shelf hardware.
I do not know if the document is legit. And I do not really care if the PS5 is 9 or 13 TF. In the end, there will be awesome first party games that justify buying the console and will look awesome either way. Same for the Xbox, which might be stronger. But why care?

 

[nowhat]

XSEX was confirmed to actually be two SKUs: XSEX Preliminary and XSEX Climax.

Will there be a XSEX I got work tomorrow, here's some cash for a cab?

 

[bitbydeath]

Yeah, so chances are it has nothing to do with video games because Sony & SIE sort of broke away from each other some time ago.

I dunno about that. PS4 having a similar tease is quite the coincidence.

 

[BattleScar]

I would just like to comment that I think it's unlikely Sony or Microsoft will be using TSMC's N7+, if anyone were getting their hopes up about that.

AMD will always prioritise their wafer allocation at N7+ towards Epyc Milan (and maybe towards Radeon Instinct). The CCDs are far smaller than any console APU and will be sold at way higher margins to data centres than console APU's.

It's certainly possible that AMD might have allocated the consoles, but it will be very very expensive.
I mean, I hope they do as it should offer nice power and area reduction, but I think it unlikely.

 

[Agnostic2020]

But this is not how it works. Early devkits consist of off the shelf Hardware with a software SDK. No testing of the hardware required.
The first stepping of the APU is usually low power. Then they fix bugs etc and new steppings are evolving, which both amd and Sony are testing. Those APUs will be fix from a feature perspective (so no new CUs). Sony will even build kits around those components simulating the console. That could be the low performance devkit Cerny was talking about. Those kits will be Sony internal though. Some parts line RT might even be not working because of bugs etc.
In the end, when those APUs are near final, they will replace the off the shelf hardware.
I do not know if the document is legit. And I do not really care if the PS5 is 9 or 13 TF. In the end, there will be awesome first party games that justify buying the console and will look awesome either way. Same for the Xbox, which might be stronger. But why care?

Well if they r clocking it this high they definitely need to test it before sending it out . Again 2 ghz for Navi 10 is not normal even for PC.

 

[Geki-D]

I dunno about that. PS4 having a similar tease is quite the coincidence.

I guess. It's just odd it isn't coming from Playstation or SIE. Does the PS brand usually have a presence at CES?

 

[bitbydeath]

I guess. It's just odd it isn't coming from Playstation or SIE. Does the PS brand usually have a presence at CES?

Someone mentioned PS3 was at CES but these releases don’t happen very often to make a trend.

 

[TLZ]

Haha Forget it man . People will keep saying that even if u show it to them lol . Let them be but anyone who thinks about it knows it’s 12 Navi TF.

Again no company wants backlash around their launchof new product . Phil would not re tweet the gamespot article where it mentions 12 Navi tf if it wasn’t correct.

he just doesn’t want to say it cause then he has to say the TF for xss and that would devalue the better selling version (12 vs 4) . It’s a marketing tactic.

Or maybe he doesn't want to say a specific number now in case PS5 tf were increased and MS pushed the speed further just to get that power edge, even if slight. Why lock things down now when the competition is trying to edge you out? Keep it as late as you possibly can.

 

[R600]

Well if they r clocking it this high they definitely need to test it before sending it out . Again 2 ghz for Navi 10 is not normal even for PC.

Its very high yea, but not impossible (node will be more mature). I can see them hitting that freq, but cooling will have to be exceptional.

DF said something I agree with last week. Console manufacturers want most bang for a buck as Moors law is slowing down, and they want higher frequency since transistor count is not getting higher at required speed. Smaller chip with higher clocks is better then wide at lower.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Its very high yea, but not impossible (node will be more mature). I can see them hitting that freq, but cooling will have to be exceptional.

DF said something I agree with last week. Console manufacturers want most bang for a buck as Moors law is slowing down, and they want higher frequency since transistor count is not getting higher at required speed. Smaller chip with higher clocks is better then wide at lower.

yes but there are limits. narrow and high clocked GPU has its big challenges . there is so much heat complexities you have to deal with in retail unit . so it needs a premium cooling solution which is kinda weird as these boxes will already be expensive to produce given the tech inside them

 

[henau212]

Well if they r clocking it this high they definitely need to test it before sending it out . Again 2 ghz for Navi 10 is not normal even for PC.

Sure, but not under a Codename Oberon. That is a semi custom chip and not a binned Navi 10. Sony would never spend hundreds of millions for a devkit only APU..

 

[R600]

yes but there are limits. narrow and high clocked GPU has its big challenges . there is so much heat complexities you have to deal with in retail unit . so it needs a premium cooling solution which is kinda weird as these boxes will already be expensive to produce given the tech inside them

I think 36CU at 2.0GHz 9.2TF will probably emit similar amount of heat as 56CU 1.5GHZ 10.7TF one.

If you are designing console, which one would you pick?

 

[Agnostic2020]

Or maybe he doesn't want to say a specific number now in case PS5 tf were increased and MS pushed the speed further just to get that power edge, even if slight. Why lock things down now when the competition is trying to edge you out? Keep it as late as you possibly can.

that can also be.why commit now?but for X1 they up clocked the gpu even though they had given hard numbers. so if they say it doesn't mean they cant up clock it

 

[Agnostic2020]

I think 36CU at 2.0GHz 9.2TF will probably emit similar amount of heat as 56CU 1.5GHZ 10.7TF one.

If you are designing console, which one would you pick?

i m really interested to see the heat chart for navi under different clocks. is there any chart i could look up?

 

[saintjules]

Why does anyone think that Sony will be launching a 12+ tflop console at $499 when Lockhart is said to be at $299 or $349? This will be a massive loss for Sony when it comes to casual market. I think a 9 tflop machine at $399 makes too much sense to stay price competetive. Sony won't care too much about power, they will let their games do the talking and they have the mindshare. Sony first party games will still look killer and that's all most Sony fans care about anyway.

People just need to save up to $600 to cover any unexpected extra expenses. Taxes, games, etc. We have 1 year to come up with that money. It should be more than feasible for the average working Consumer.

 

[Ar¢tos]

..

56 vs 36.

My personal interpretation is that Sony is hampered by their BC situation. I predict the PS5 Pro would be 72CUs 128ROPs.

40CUs was there to use easily but they limited themselves to 36.

This makes no sense. Yes it's the same x86 architecture, but Zen is different from Jaguar and RDNA is different from GCN, you will never have true hw BC, neither with 36cus or 50 or 60 or whatever. A virtualization layer is always required, and that can be achieved regardless of CU count.
Sony would never hamper a next-gen console, its potential sales and limit the console "duration" in the gen just to satisfy the 5% that want BC.

 

[DJ12]

Xbox could be 599 for all we know

That still doesn't tackle the issue that all reports coming from Devs are saying the ps5 has a slight performance advantage.

Price points aren't really proof of anything.

Ps5 and Xbox could be identical and sell for vastly different prices.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Why does anyone think that Sony will be launching a 12+ tflop console at $499 when Lockhart is said to be at $299 or $349? This will be a massive loss for Sony when it comes to casual market. I think a 9 tflop machine at $399 makes too much sense to stay price competetive. Sony won't care too much about power, they will let their games do the talking and they have the mindshare. Sony first party games will still look killer and that's all most Sony fans care about anyway.

dont forget that PS4 is selling great at $299 so maybe sony wants to position PS4 at $199 for price sensitive casual buyers against lockhart(i understand one is next gen and one is not but casual do not care as long as the games will be playable on PS4 which is till 2023 minimum )

thats one tactic

 

[bitbydeath]

i m really interested to see the heat chart for navi under different clocks. is there any chart i could look up?

Just wait for CES, just one more week!

 

[saintjules]

6th or 7th jan iirc - also from r/ps5



It's unlikely to get PS5 at CES, but Barlogs first CES in the same year as a new gen drop? Might be nothing, might be something

I wouldn't completely rule it out. It's a new decade and a new way of doing things. Xbox put their Series X reveal at the Game Awards instead of at their own event and/or at E3. Sony used wired articles and Twitter to talk about next-gen. Unconventional ways this time around.

I predict Sony to do a move of their own at CES. Maybe not an actual reveal of the box, but something to talk about next-gen. Plus AMD is there obviously. It would just be a bit funny to not talk about the biggest Consoles in history at a stage that talks about the future of technology. Just thoughts of course.

 

[R600]

i m really interested to see the heat chart for navi under different clocks. is there any chart i could look up?

There was "Simulating Gonzalo" in this thread. For 40CU part, sweetspot seemed to be 1.8GHZ. below that you lose more perf then you gain in power efficiency, and above that its opposite.

Can Sony ship 2.0GHz Navi in 2020? I think so, yea, although that is not an easy target for normal console design.

 

[BattleScar]

I think 36CU at 2.0GHz 9.2TF will probably emit similar amount of heat as 56CU 1.5GHZ 10.7TF one.

If you are designing console, which one would you pick?

The larger chip, as there is lower thermal density.
The same amount of heat being dissipated from a smaller chip introduces some cooling challenges.

 

[xool]

Sony devkits before V shaped was Vega 64, as was told to me by someone I trust.

this could explain a lot of the 12.x TF leaks from summer 2019 and earlier ...

 

[R600]

The larger chip, as there is lower thermal density.
The same amount of heat being dissipated from a smaller chip introduces some cooling challenges.

But its 55% bigger chip (without taking into account bus width) that emits similar amount of heat, gives you worse yields and while it does have 18% more TF, it also has 30% lower pixel fillrate.

It would also require wider bus as well. Its not as simple as people assume.

 

[R600]

this could explain a lot of the 12.x TF leaks from summer 2019 and earlier ...

From Era just now

Saw this on the Ariel_Native sheet:

/proj/gfxip_vega20_pv_02/junyingz/Ariel_BC_ex/CL3134324_4/out/linux_2.6.32_64.VCS/ariel/config/gc/run/block/tgltp_tc4_tcp_hit_tfRGBA8888_tfilterBilin_noitrace @CYB

gfxip_vega20?

Don't know what to make of it, either they used Vega 20 (Radeon VII) at some point in time for Ariel as early test version, or maybe it's another indication that the information isn't all that accurate, because they might have copy/pasted stuff from old projects to save time.

Vega 20 - Radeon 7 13TF.

 

[-kb-]

But its 55% bigger chip (without taking into account bus width) that emits similar amount of heat, gives you worse yields and while it does have 18% more TF, it also has 30% lower pixel fillrate.

It would also require wider bus as well. Its not as simple as people assume.

Its not just filtrate, anything that doesn't scale with the CU's but instead scales with the GFXCLK will run faster on the PS5.

 

[pawel86ck]

Haha Forget it man . People will keep saying that even if u show it to them lol . Let them be but anyone who thinks about it knows it’s 12 Navi TF.

Again no company wants backlash around their launchof new product . Phil would not re tweet the gamespot article where it mentions 12 Navi tf if it wasn’t correct.

he just doesn’t want to say it cause then he has to say the TF for xss and that would devalue the better selling version (12 vs 4) . It’s a marketing tactic.

I have noticed some people bought lately new GPU thinking their PC will be still superior when next gen consoles will launch. These people just cant accept XSX can be even faster than their own PC, so they will rather twist what Phil Spencer has said just to feel better. But the problem is, even if you assume Phil Spencer was talking about GCN TFLOPS then it only takes 6.5-7TF Navi to match 8x xbox one consoles when it comes to game performance. That's because Navi architecture is 40-50% faster than GCN Tahiti, so MS dont need 9-10TF Navi to match 8x xbox one consoles.

Can anyone imagine XSX with only 6.5-7TF GPU ? That's totally unrealistic scenario in Q4 2020, therefore personally I'm sure Phil Spencer wasnt thinking about game performance but TFLOPS metric alone, because only TFLOPS metric can explain what he said in regards to XSX power (over 8x xbox one, and 2x xbox x), 12TF GPU fits perfectly. With Windows Central and eurogamer article on top of there's really nothing that could suggest XSX will use 9TF Navi.

 

[Neofire]

No fucking chance.

A 9.2TF PS5 at $399 will do just fine. Pricing any higher than $399 will be a huge gamble.

Perhaps Sony is confident in their SSD tech should give potential buyers something to think about instead of just raw graphical power.

Sony will be making a big mistake in my opinion and people will think they are milking money to release a "mid Gen" refresh 2 years later only to maybe match Microsofts launch console, for more money.

 

[Agnostic2020]

I have noticed some people bought lately new GPU thinking their PC will be still superior when next gen consoles will launch. These people just cant accept XSX can be even faster than their own PC, so they will rather twist what Phil Spencer has said just to feel better. But the problem is, even if you assume Phil Spencer was talking about GCN TFLOPS then it only takes 6.5-7TF Navi to match 8x xbox one consoles when it comes to game performance. That's because Navi architecture is 40-50% faster than GCN Tahiti, so MS dont need 9-10TF Navi to match 8x xbox one consoles.

Can anyone imagine XSX with only 6.5-7TF GPU ? That's totally unrealistic scenario in Q4 2020, therefore personally I'm sure Phil Spencer wasnt thinking about game performance but TFLOPS metric alone, because only TFLOPS metric can explain what he said in regards to XSX power (over 8x xbox one, and 2x xbox x), 12TF GPU fits perfectly. With Windows Central and eurogamer article on top of there's really nothing that could suggest XSX will use 9TF Navi.

not only that , he retweeted an article where it specifically said 12 navi TF. he wouldn't do that if it wasn't true .

 

[xool]

i m really interested to see the heat chart for navi under different clocks. is there any chart i could look up?

Simulating Gonzalo (Rumoured NextGen/PS5 leak)

This thread is work in progress First things first: I'm not saying Gonzalo is PS5, it might be! I'm not suggesting this simulated Gonzalo is equivalent to PS5's power in games, this thread is about how much computational power you can put in a console size box and not how efficient you can...

www.neogaf.com

From the thread :

(this is for a 5700XT)

Power (and benchmark) vs frequency (Green is power = heat)

Same graph (as %)

Table :

Other power stuff

(all in first 2 posts)

DemonCleaner scaled the clocks back to minimum for each frequency, so the results are as legit as they come imho ..

I'll just say that if next gen is on "Gen 2" 7nm clocks may be increased by ~<10% relative to this

 

[Fake]

Even if CES 2020 don't reveal PS5 I'll watch anyways as I do every year. Bravia news its what I looking for.

But what really reforcing the PS5 news are their focus on 8K.

 

[Von Hugh]

Sony might as well do a soft reveal of PS5 during CES. Catch the attention of all the business-y people and the world-wide audience that are the consumers. Then do a proper reveal and a showcase of games in March or February. Even out the hype and manage expectations that way.

 

[Agnostic2020]

i feel PS is too valuable to sony to just randomly reveal PS5 without hyping it up

 

[quest]

Sony might as well do a soft reveal of PS5 during CES. Catch the attention of all the business-y people and the world-wide audience that are the consumers. Then do a proper reveal and a showcase of games in March or February. Even out the hype and manage expectations that way.

Games would not be in any state yet. It would be more tech demos and a deeper dive like the PS4 and maybe 1 level from a first party game. Games will come at E3.

 

[BattleScar]

From Era just now



Vega 20 - Radeon 7 13TF.

Interesting, but Radeon VII is faster than the 5700(XT) in pretty much all situations regardless of clockspeeds.

But its 55% bigger chip (without taking into account bus width) that emits similar amount of heat, gives you worse yields and while it does have 18% more TF, it also has 30% lower pixel fillrate.

It would also require wider bus as well. Its not as simple as people assume.

That all is certainly true. However purely from a thermal point of view, I want my heat spread over a larger surface area.

Additionally, based on the 5700(XT) performance on PC, Navi doesn't really seem to scale fantastically well with clockspeed. Not as well as Maxwell, Pascal or indeed Turing does. Don't know what the exact issue is, but some suspect it's a bandwidth limitation. So if they're clicking at 2GHz, they're still gonna need to find some more bandwidth to gain any meaningful performance.

 

[SportsFan581]

You're making waay to many presumptions. First, a $299 is speculative at best and in my opinion, unreasonable for what the console potentially contains. Compared to the Xbox One X which still contains an MSRP of $499 two years after launch, lockhart will contain a new generation RDNA GPU, a significant jump in CPU, a faster RAM setup that is only slightly less than Series X & an SSD for $299? That's wishful thinking & the price of the One X only proves that.

FYI, I don't believe a 9.2TF PS5 will result in a $399 price if all other components are in parity with Series X either. I don't claim to be an expert on the bills of materials but price cannot scale linear like that just based of GPU tflops alone. PS5 will have to be reduced in other areas compared to the series X (limited RT features, less ram. etc) for Sony to undercut MS $100.

And casuals don't only care about the entry level price of a console. Library matters as well & the first 1-2 years it is always limited. Cross gen will still be a thing for a couple years at least and big titles will release on current gen consoles. Not to mention Lockhart is rumored to be discless as well. You don't think casuals care about buying cheap/older titles at Wal Mart, trade or sell their games? It's easy to imagine a casual looking at lockhart with a limited library with all $60 full price titles & just wait for the Series X or PS5 to get cheaper so can have the option to buy their physical games if desired.

I don't think you've considered the actual pie chart of console build costs. LOL

MS has said that the APU alone amounts to over half the total build cost of the Xbone X, it's a big chip. It requires expensive (in the scheme of console design) cooling as well. Lockhart, in contrast will be using a small APU (much smaller than the Xbone and PS4 chips were at initial launch).

Work the numbers backwards and things come into clearer focus. The series X will have a much larger APU (much more expensive, typically lower yields), will undoubtedly need better cooling, have more RAM, include the BR drive, and probably have a better SSD (just because both have a NVMe does not necessarily equate to the performance being identical, there is a good range of NVMe drives on the market) Lockhart won't need to move as much data targeting 1080p or 1440p (both less than half of 4k resolution).

Even if you push the Series X to $600, when you start making these kind of deductions the price drops fast. The digital-only aspect also increases direct profit for MS, which may (or may not) influence pricing as well.

 

[Dargor]

Sony might as well do a soft reveal of PS5 during CES. Catch the attention of all the business-y people and the world-wide audience that are the consumers. Then do a proper reveal and a showcase of games in March or February. Even out the hype and manage expectations that way.

I see it like this, if the 9tf rumor is true, sony should start showing some information to lessen the blow, maybe people will be prepared to see beyond the power gap when they actually reveal the specs. It will be bad, but at least it won't be a "surprise".

If it isn't true, sony shouldn't say anything, in fact if they were planning on showing something, it would be better for them not to. They should let this fester (yes, fester) as much as possible. The relief alone will drive people crazy.

 

[R600]

Interesting, but Radeon VII is faster than the 5700(XT) in pretty much all situations regardless of clockspeeds.


That all is certainly true. However purely from a thermal point of view, I want my heat spread over a larger surface area.

Additionally, based on the 5700(XT) performance on PC, Navi doesn't really seem to scale fantastically well with clockspeed. Not as well as Maxwell, Pascal or indeed Turing does. Don't know what the exact issue is, but some suspect it's a bandwidth limitation. So if they're clicking at 2GHz, they're still gonna need to find some more bandwidth to gain any meaningful performance.

Radeon VII is faster then 5700XT by few percent (depending on a game). Certainly, if you had to deliver dev kits in late 2018 early 2019 you would do so with 13TF Vega card, no? Its pretty much a match.

And yes, Navi hits BW limit, but as per AMD repo leak, BW for Oberon is higher then PC counterpart (530GB/s vs 448GB/s). I think final PS5 will have 544-576GB/s on 256bit bus (with 18Gbps chips from Samsung)

This would explain 20k+ FS leak and this would explain why late 2018 and early 2019 Sony already sent dev kits and these were reported as 13TF ones.