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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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W

Wilsongt

Member
thezerofire said:
post those reactions
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"@exis10tial 28s

Obama: "The Affordable Care Act is here to stay." Democrats said the same thing about slavery.. Didn't work out back then either."

"@mermaid0214 2m

Congrats Mr. Pres.! Out of 319 million people only 7 million have signed up for the affordable care act! I for one am now paying more!!"

"@ClassClownKJL 5m

7 million signed up for the Affordable Care Act, but how many people actually paid is the million dollar question"

"@CBMonarch 9m

I'm sure the majority of the idiots that signed up for the affordable care act were able to watch his presser, conservatives were at work."

"@JCPopp88 10m

7.1 mil pple have signed up for the affordable care act? Its a good thin we don't have a pop of 330 mil"

"@willyz 11m

You're an unAmerican liar. MT @SenatorReid The Affordable Care Act is working..."

"@Whiskey_Words 12m

Obama celebrates 7.1 million people under the affordable care act. Flappy bird has over 50 million downloads. Flappy bird > Obamacare"

Oh God, I need to stop. I am starting to dry out due to all of this salt.

EDIT; yaaaaaaaas

" 2m

The affordable care act I want democrats to run on it. 7million signed up. cost of premiums an the business side cost will help republicans"

It keeps getting better!

"@JonathanRyrie1 39s

President Obama is a liar. The Affordable Care Act or #Obamacare is a swindle of an entire country. #7MillionAndCounting is a lie."

"@hireb 53s

#7MillionAndCounting - Mission Accomplished! How many have lost insurance! How many lost their doctors? How many have actually paid?"

"@lmahoneybee 53s

When #7MillionAndCounting Americans learn the truth, the #Democrats will be crushed in a landslide in the next 2 elections."

"@EF517_V2 1m

Alinsky Rule #17 Lie, lie, lie some more. We have some numbers, not others. Which ones would you like to choke on? #7MillionAndCounting"
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
JesseEwiak said:
Yup, even if Cubans were originally conservative leaning because those that escaped were largely the middle and upper middle class of the island, 50 years of living in America has ground that down. Your average 26 year old Cuban guy has far more in common with the black or Mexican guy living around the corner than his 70 year old uncle who talks about returning to Havana once Castro kicks the bucket.
Click to expand...

It is true that most Cubans who came here had money in Cuba thus were middle class or higher. Cuba is said to be up to 50% black yet almost all of the Cuban immigrants and refugees are white. However another big reason is that as the Cuban community integrated with the next generation they become more accustomed with their country. Older Cubans will never vote for a party that is known as the "left" party in the country, because to them left = closer to Communism = horrible. The younger generation however is more integrated and realizes how ridiculous this is as the Democrats are nothing like Castro. The same thing is happening with the Vietnamese.
 
W

WayneMorse

Banned
8zybcYb.jpg


This cannot be real.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Documents filed with the Department of Labor and dated December 2012—three months after the company's owners filed their lawsuit—show that the Hobby Lobby 401(k) employee retirement plan held more than $73 million in mutual funds with investments in companies that produce emergency contraceptive pills, intrauterine devices, and drugs commonly used in abortions. Hobby Lobby makes large matching contributions to this company-sponsored 401(k).

Several of the mutual funds in Hobby Lobby's retirement plan have holdings in companies that manufacture the specific drugs and devices that the Green family, which owns Hobby Lobby, is fighting to keep out of Hobby Lobby's health care policies: the emergency contraceptive pills Plan B and Ella, and copper and hormonal intrauterine devices.

These companies include Teva Pharmaceutical Industries, which makes Plan B and ParaGard, a copper IUD, and Actavis, which makes a generic version of Plan B and distributes Ella. Other holdings in the mutual funds selected by Hobby Lobby include Pfizer, the maker of Cytotec and Prostin E2, which are used to induce abortions; Bayer, which manufactures the hormonal IUDs Skyla and Mirena; AstraZeneca, which has an Indian subsidiary that manufactures Prostodin, Cerviprime, and Partocin, three drugs commonly used in abortions; and Forest Laboratories, which makes Cervidil, a drug used to induce abortions. Several funds in the Hobby Lobby retirement plan also invested in Aetna and Humana, two health insurance companies that cover surgical abortions, abortion drugs, and emergency contraception in many of the health care policies they sell.

In a brief filed with the Supreme Court, the Greens object to covering Plan B, Ella, and IUDs because they claim that these products can prevent a fertilized egg from implanting in a woman's uterus—a process the Greens consider abortion. But researchers reject the notion that emergency contraceptive pills prevent implantation the implantation of a fertilized egg. Instead, they work by delaying ovulation or making it harder for sperm to swim to the egg. (Copper IUDs, which are also a form of birth control, can prevent implantation.) The Green's contention that the pills cause abortions is a central pillar of their argument for gutting the contraception mandate. Yet, for years, Hobby Lobby's health insurance plans did cover Plan B and Ella. It was only in 2012, when the Greens considered filing a lawsuit against the Affordable Care Act, that they dropped these drugs from the plan.

A website Hobby Lobby set up to answer questions about the Supreme Court case states that its 401(k) plan comes with "a generous company match." In 2012, Hobby Lobby contributed $3.8 million to its employee savings plans, which had 13,400 employee participants at the beginning of that year.

The information on Hobby Lobby's 401(k) investments is included in the company's 2013 annual disclosure to the Department of Labor. The records contain a list, dated December 31, 2012, of 24 funds that were included in its employer-sponsored retirement plan. MorningStar, an investment research firm, provided Mother Jones with the names of the companies in nine of those funds as of December 31, 2012. Each fund's portfolio consists of at least dozens if not hundreds of different holdings.

All nine funds—which have assets of $73 million, or three-quarters of the Hobby Lobby retirement plan's total assets—contained holdings that clashed with the Greens' stated religious principles.

Hobby Lobby and the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, the conservative group that provided Hobby Lobby with legal representation, did not respond to questions about these investments or whether Hobby Lobby has changed its retirement plan.
Click to expand...

http://www.motherjones.com/politics...rgency-contraception-and-abortion-drug-makers

Hobby Lobby invests in abortions (by their definition). But I was told the case is about religious freedom!
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Black Mamba said:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics...rgency-contraception-and-abortion-drug-makers

Hobby Lobby invests in abortions (by their definition). But I was told the case is about religious freedom!
Click to expand...

You don't even have to look that hard. Before Obamacare came along, Hobby Lobby just had generic healthcare that already covered many of the things that suddenly became abhorrent when the black guy said you had to cover them.

Yeah, I said black guy. I can't help but think racism always lurks behind many of these cases a bit because how come they and God were not offended about covering Plan B until Obama came along?

On many levels, the Hobby Lobby case is a mess of bad facts, political opportunism, and questionable legal theories that might be laughable had some federal courts not taken them seriously. Take for instance Hobby Lobby's argument that providing coverage for Plan B and Ella substantially limits its religious freedom. The company admits in its complaint that until it considered filing the suit in 2012, its generous health insurance plan actually covered Plan B and Ella (though not IUDs). The burden of this coverage was apparently so insignificant that God, and Hobby Lobby executives, never noticed it until the mandate became a political issue.
Click to expand...
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/hobby-lobby-supreme-court-obamacare
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
speculawyer said:
You don't even have to look that hard. Before Obamacare came along, Hobby Lobby just had generic healthcare that already covered many of the things that suddenly became abhorrent when the black guy said you had to cover them.

Yeah, I said black guy. I can't help but think racism always lurks behind many of these cases a bit because how come they and God were not offended about covering Plan B until Obama came along?


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/hobby-lobby-supreme-court-obamacare
Click to expand...

Yup, twas aware of this as well.

Even more hilarious, was Hobby Lobby's response that the Greens had no idea about it and became enraged when they found out!

yeah, like we're buying that one.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
PhoenixDark said:
the latest thing spreading on the far right
http://tinyurl.com/mczq7ep
(the daily mail)
Click to expand...

The right really has an amazing capacity to believe whatever they want to believe. The article mentions some report saying that only ~800K of the sign-ups have actually paid. If true, that would be a big scandal. But there is no way that can be true. The administration would not crow about all the sign-ups if only 800K paid up . . . that would be setting themselves up for a HUGE fall. But if you want to believe something so badly, you'll believe it. They do it over and over and over again. WMDs, Romney winning, birth certificate, climate change, FEMA death camps, death panels, etc.
 
M

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
speculawyer said:
Yeah, I said black guy. I can't help but think racism always lurks behind many of these cases a bit because how come they and God were not offended about covering Plan B until Obama came along?
Click to expand...

Having a black guy telling you what to do is the core of what helped make it "offensive" to them, I'm sure. Certain demographics in America in general seem to have become more vocal about keeping government out of their lives now it is a "black guy's" government.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
speculawyer said:
The right really has an amazing capacity to believe whatever they want to believe. The article mentions some report saying that only ~800K of the sign-ups have actually paid. If true, that would be a big scandal. But there is no way that can be true. The administration would not crow about all the sign-ups if only 800K paid up . . . that would be setting themselves up for a HUGE fall. But if you want to believe something so badly, you'll believe it. They do it over and over and over again. WMDs, Romney winning, birth certificate, climate change, FEMA death camps, death panels, etc.
Click to expand...

The 858k number came from Breitbart.

they took the McKinsey study that said only 27% of enrollees were previously uninsured. But this number was from both online AND offline numbers but breitbart applied it only to online. So instead of [at the time] 27% of like 14-15 million, they did it out of 5-6 million.

Then they claimed only 53% paid their first month premium because McKinsey said so since most hadn't even received a bill (remember, previously uninsured signed up later, not earlier).

So when you do that, you end up with like 14% of 5.5 million or so and you get to 800k.

So they started by multiplying the wrong number (5.5 or so mil instead of 14.5), they ignored that the paid rate is not that low by due date, and also the actual rate of previously uninsured has been rising fast since previously uninsured signed up late. Oh, and it ignored medicaid completely.

In other words, it was this all over again:

mathiydoasarepublicansdjsksjs.jpg




I think the RAND number is fairly accurate. If I had to bet, I'd argued somewhere between 10.5-11.5 million previously uninsured are now insured when previously they weren't. Furthermore, that number would be 5 million higher if not for a lack of medicaid expansion in red states.

Oh, and another thing, I'd venture to argue somewhere between 4-6 million underinsured are now better insured.
 
C

Chumly

Member
So the Ryan budget keeps all of the Obamacare tax increases but takes out all of the benefits? Not enough LOL's to be had.
 
Z

Zero-Crescent

Member
Konka said:
Bill O'Reilly is staunchly defending Telsa against some wacko Libertarian haha.
Click to expand...

Is this about the NJ law? I'd think that a libertarian would be against that law, since it indirectly subsidizes extraneous middlemen (car dealers) by forcing Tesla to deal with them. What is this person arguing?
EDIT: Irrelevant. It was about a different subject.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Mario said:
Having a black guy telling you what to do is the core of what helped make it "offensive" to them, I'm sure. Certain demographics in America in general seem to have become more vocal about keeping government out of their lives now it is a "black guy's" government.
Click to expand...

It is undeniable, IMHO. They gladly handed away their rights with the Patriot Act and many other intrusive things when Bush was in office. But when Obama took over, all of a sudden it becomes "Obama is trying to take away my guns, my bible, and put me in a FEMA camp! He's gonna gay marry me to an illegal alien terrorist!" The only time conservatives discover civil rights and fiscal responsibility is when they are kicked out of the white house.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Haha I thought the same thing. I love the way you think.

btw I was reading about the new Ryan budget which is really not new at all. But it is to my understanding if he got his way the ACA would not necessarily be completely gutted, but they'd eliminate all subsidies for policyholders?
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Diablos said:
Haha I thought the same thing. I love the way you think.

btw I was reading about the new Ryan budget which is really not new at all. But it is to my understanding if he got his way the ACA would not necessarily be completely gutted, but they'd eliminate all subsidies for policyholders?
Click to expand...
It just cuts out everything that might actually help people, so it leaves the cuts and tax increases in.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
StopMakingSense said:
DEADHEAT POLITICS WRITERS!!

We just got around to moving the wordpress.com blog onto my hosting, as a result, I believe while the writer accounts moved over, the passwords very most likely didn't. Writers please PM me with your email address your DHP account was under, and I'll send you the log in location (should be the exact same as before) and a temporary password (WHICH YOU SHOULD CHANGE IMMEDIATELY).
Click to expand...

Hey, I've never written for dead heat but is there anyway I could? I'd love to contribute a bit. I've been meaning to ask since forever.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Aaron Strife said:
It just cuts out everything that might actually help people, so it leaves the cuts and tax increases in.
Click to expand...
So that young adult who can finally get coverage for $90 a month would probably pay 3x that thanks to Paul Ryan if he got his shitty budget passed. Wow.

This is what concerns me about the future of the law. The instant the GOP can get their hands on it they are gonna fuck it up so hard. They won't outright repeal it because that is almost impossible but they could pull the rug out from underneath by nuking the subsidies. They they can say 'see, it did nothing to help and it is all the Dems' fault, now let's keep getting rid of it'.

The next two years are so critical for us Democrats. And the midterms aren't looking too pretty. 50/50 by default six years into a Democratic Presidency just sucks.
 
D

Diablos

Member
eBay Huckster said:
All I'm hoping for is for November to essentially be a push

because then 2016 is going to make 2008 look like 2004
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HEY ZORAK

6vOsaxY.jpg


Armoured Priest said:
Indeed...because the GOP are ok with tax increases so long as it doesn't inconvenience the ultra rich.
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Nah, they'd be legislating their revisionist history. That is to say, turn it into the inefficient tax wasting machine that they currently state that it is (which it isn't) -- but if they got their way then it basically would be and then they'd go around the country telling everyone how right they are.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
APKmetsfan said:
Dick Cheney's mouth opened again today. Not very intelligent stuff fell out
Click to expand...

"One to go" was an obvious reference to bombing Iran's nuclear program. The crowd responded approvingly with laughter and applause.
Click to expand...

Good lord. Are we sure these guys aren't super villains?

It's so weird how these people care so much about Israel, and it's just creepy how supporting any sort of violent military campaign can be met with laughter and applause. Even if it's something you agree we just have to do, you'd at least hope there'd be some amount of sobriety over it.
 
A

Armoured Priest

Member
speculawyer said:
No . . . they like tax increases that they can blame on Democrats.
Click to expand...

I figured that went without saying ;)

So...taxes that effect everybody except the ultra rich, that they can blame on the Democrats and then spin into ineffectiveness. Once all those layers of bureaucracy are built up (and a bunch of GOP yes-men are getting their cut) they funnel the remainder into boosting military spending.

I was suddenly reminded of an anime movie called Memories Its pretty good. Its made up of three shorts. the first, Magnetic Rose, is awesome (though unrelated to this conversation). The second, Stink Bomb, is tangentially related. Mainly, though, I was thinking of the third, Cannon Fodder.

I can't find an English version on youtube (sub or dub), but between the summary on wikipedia and the Spanish language version I did find (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifWwj_Jp86A) you can get the gist.

We have a ways to go, but at this point, that sort of society isn't so far fetched if we keep getting the ridiculousness we've been getting.
 
K

Konka

Banned
speculawyer said:
What was the Libertarian arguing?
Click to expand...

He was pissed that the government loaned money to Tesla or subsidized them because I quote "Apple didn't need the government to develop the iPhone". Bill was saying Tesla is good because electric cars would decrease dependence on Putin and cut emissions.
 
D

Drakeon

Member
Konka said:
He was pissed that the government loaned money to Tesla or subsidized them because I quote "Apple didn't need the government to develop the iPhone". Bill was saying Tesla is good because electric cars would decrease dependence on Putin and cut emissions.
Click to expand...

OReilly does have those rare moments of clarity on his show. Sometimes very rare...
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Konka said:
He was pissed that the government loaned money to Tesla or subsidized them because I quote "Apple didn't need the government to develop the iPhone". Bill was saying Tesla is good because electric cars would decrease dependence on Putin and cut emissions.
Click to expand...

They sure as hell use those tax breaks the government provides!
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Konka said:
He was pissed that the government loaned money to Tesla or subsidized them because I quote "Apple didn't need the government to develop the iPhone". Bill was saying Tesla is good because electric cars would decrease dependence on Putin and cut emissions.
Click to expand...
Wow. Idiots arguing but at least Bill had the better argument.
-Tesla paid back the government loan already (9 years early . . . has Ford, GM, or Nissan done that? No.)
-This was part of the stimulus during the financial meltdown. And it was money well spent . . . even the money that went to companies that failed at least put money into the economy but this money helped kickstart a multi-billion dollar company in a new industry.
-We don't directly import from Russia (AFAIK) but importing any oil supports world-wide oil prices and thus helps Putin.
-Cutting pollution and CO2 emissions is indeed awesome. The grid is only 40% coal and dropping. Wind & solar make up the vast majority of new electricity generating capacity being added to the grid these days. So over time, the clean electric cars get even cleaner.

I wonder if Bill has a Tesla. Perhaps he picked one up with his multi-millions as a toy and got a soft spot for them after appreciating the car.

Electric cars are the future. It will be a slow transition and involve plug-in hybrids more than pure electrics early on . . . but as gas prices rise over the years, they provide us with a way of driving without oil. As a person with a (cheap) electric car and a solar PV array that generates enough net electricity such that I pay nothing for electricity and nothing for gasoline, I feel like I'm living in the future.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Notrollious said:
no they don't shut up they did it all without help
Click to expand...

Sorry. They also don't benifit and take advantage of all those free trade agreements which reduced tariffs on imports. That didn't help greatly reduce the price of iPhones. Nor did all the port upgrades the government funds or the education programs that have educated their engineers.
Drakeon said:
OReilly does have those rare moments of clarity on his show. Sometimes very rare...
Click to expand...

OReilly is really consistent. He's a general baby boomer type. Likes things the government did before the '63, hates everything after, racially insecure and disgusted with liberalism acceptance of social change.
 
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