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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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White nationalist group says gay marriage will lead to pedophilia and zoophilia.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...iage_n_5071346.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

It's not like we haven't heard THAT one before.
Of course this line of thinking is pure bullshit but under these terms wouldn't marriage between a man and woman actually be the start of the slippery marriage slope? I know, I know, no use trying to apply any sense here but it has always bothered me a bit.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Of course this line of thinking is pure bullshit but under these terms wouldn't marriage between a man and woman actually be the start of the slippery marriage slope? I know, I know, no use trying to apply any sense here but it has always bothered me a bit.

Yeah but THE BIBLE says marriage is only between one HUMAN man and one HUMAN woman. Animals and gays need not apply.
 
These midterms will be mostly a wash.
If that means the 4 red state incumbents (Pryor, Landrieu, Hagan, Begich) manage to hold on I'll be ok with that.

I still think Democrats could win the House majority but it's like a 5% chance and even if they did their majority would be too small to accomplish anything significant. There'd be enough blue dogs to torpedo major legislation like immigration or cap and trade and Republicans would take advantage of being in the minority by voting no on everything and then complaining about nothing getting done.
 
Breaking news on my phone says the SCOTUS struck down overall campaign finance limits btw...

When I woke up this morning, I said to myself "Gee, you know what our political system needs? More private money!"

When some people get things so wrong that they're publicly embarrassed when reality hits, they take that opportunity to rethink or reconsider their methods, ideas, beliefs, details, and/or premises. Other people learn nothing from the ordeal and continue to peddle the same junk as before. We generally call the latter "insane."
 
Is it wrong I'm not as despondent as most of GAF is? I don't know if I read too much history but I don't get the "Its so much worse" "democracy is over" responses to so many things.
 
Is it wrong I'm not as despondent as most of GAF is? I don't know if I read too much history but I don't get the "Its so much worse" "democracy is over" responses to so many things.

I recall GAF's average age is 25. It is common for twenty-something to be very hyperbolic about their nation's situation. America is certainly under some clouds currently but I find it ridiculous to pretend that it is currently under one thousand years of darkness or something.

The baby boomer will die, minorities will hold a bigger percentage of the country's population, and the slightly less conservative Generation X and top end Millennials will be the "normal" adult population. The country will eventually move to the left.
 
I recall GAF's average age is 25. It is common for twenty-something to be very hyperbolic about their nation's situation. America is certainly under some clouds currently but I find it ridiculous to pretend that it is currently under one thousand years of darkness or something.

The baby boomer will die, minorities will hold a bigger percentage of the country's population, and the slightly less conservative Generation X and top end Millennials will be the "normal" adult population. The country will eventually move to the left.

I'm around that age too.

Its not even the left right divide is just the general pessimism about society and politics. I don't think today is any different than general trends we've seen in the past and which we've constantly improved on.

I'm a optimist about the future because our history on the long term shows that to be the almost universal trend. Which is funny because I'm a pessimist about my own life.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
If that means the 4 red state incumbents (Pryor, Landrieu, Hagan, Begich) manage to hold on I'll be ok with that.

I still think Democrats could win the House majority but it's like a 5% chance and even if they did their majority would be too small to accomplish anything significant. There'd be enough blue dogs to torpedo major legislation like immigration or cap and trade and Republicans would take advantage of being in the minority by voting no on everything and then complaining about nothing getting done.

I think mostly things will remain the same. The Dems may lose a Senate seat or two and may gain a House seat or two, but nothing drastic.
 
I recall GAF's average age is 25. It is common for twenty-something to be very hyperbolic about their nation's situation. America is certainly under some clouds currently but I find it ridiculous to pretend that it is currently under one thousand years of darkness or something.

The baby boomer will die, minorities will hold a bigger percentage of the country's population, and the slightly less conservative Generation X and top end Millennials will be the "normal" adult population. The country will eventually move to the left.

In terms of concentration of economic power and elite control over policy, I'd say we're at a low point looking back over the last 80 years. It's nothing to be sanguine about.
 
But hey at least they're socially progressive eg for gay marriage despite the fact they want to screw us all over with their backwards economics :)

If they were for gay marriage then they would actually support the legislation and court decisions that favor marriage equality.

Instead they go off on this ideological rant that government should not be involved in the say of who can and cannot marry.

They often say, "Get the government out of marriage".
And that's pretty much the only way many of them will support gay marriage.
Whether we like it or not, the government is always going to have a say in recognizing a marriage.

We are far past the point of just making marriage a private contract. We have alimony laws, citizenship laws, divorce and custody laws, power of attorney laws, tax laws, and a whole slew of other things.

I've argued this with a couple of Libertarians now and they pretty much want the entire institution of civil marriage to go. (Why? Who the fuck knows, really.)

Libertarians are far too ideological to debate with. They don't care that it would be a complete waste of political capital to try and convince the American public and other politicians to complete just wipe marriage laws off the books. They don't care that the idea will completely unpopular.

Maybe this isn't every Libertarian. But I've heard this argument all too many times:
Joe Libertarian said:
I'm not going to support bills and rulings that allow gays to get married because that means polygamists are still being discriminated against. If you care about equality than you would want the government out of marriage to let people do as they consensually please.

I just sort of shake my head, face palm myself, and then realize I'm debating a Libertarian and should probably go home.
 
In terms of concentration of economic power and elite control over policy, I'd say we're at a low point looking back over the last 80 years. It's nothing to be sanguine about.

I agree that things are a far cry to what they should be. However I do feel that there is a sort of exaggeration of how people refer to today's world. There is a imbalance of inequality and power but living in America isn't like living in a modern Les Miserables for the Average American™. That isn't to say that there are a share of Americans who really are struggling.

Libertarians are far too ideological to debate with. They don't care that it would be a complete waste of political capital to try and convince the American public and other politicians to complete just wipe marriage laws off the books. They don't care that the idea will completely unpopular.
And this is why they are so dangerous. I would ten times out of ten have to deal with a voting group Mississippian bible thumpers rather than one composed of Harvard Law elites and George Mason University graduates.
 
I agree that things are a far cry to what they should be. However I do feel that there is a sort of exaggeration of how people refer to today's world. There is a imbalance of inequality and power but living in America isn't like living in a modern Les Miserables for most or even the average American™. That isn't to say that there are a share of Americans who really are struggling.

Yes, but we can't underestimate how hard a good chunk of people have it. When you have large imbalances in income and wealth and little social welfare services, the people at the lower end are going to be closer to living in a modern Les Miserable than people in industrialized countries with more equitable distributions of income and better social supports. And that should be considered unacceptable for a wealthy country in the 21st century. People in parts of the US probably have more in common with people in developing nations than they do with, say, somebody in Norway.
 
Is it wrong I'm not as despondent as most of GAF is? I don't know if I read too much history but I don't get the "Its so much worse" "democracy is over" responses to so many things.

Idk. It's not hard to feel out of control and entirely pessimistic with the system as a whole.

But I do know we're not too far off from a decent upheaval when the boomers start to go and others start to lose elections to the younger crowds as the minorities get a bigger say in the country.

If we don't seem to get more Elizabeth Warren's or Bernie Sanders' elected on a national scale in the next 2 decades then I may start to worry. Also Thomas and Scalia retiring (or dying but I wouldn't hope that on anyone) should make things a bit better as long as we elect someone more progressive to nominate people in their spots.
 
In the midst of my two hour wait for some meds at a military pharmacy two retired gentleman proceed to get into an argument over Medicare, Tricare, and Obamacare. After confusing and conflating terms, in addition to generally knowing fuck all about any of the three programs, one of the men concluded at the end that his wait time was the result of...Obamacare. At a military pharmacy. Watching the wife of one of the nitwit's just roll her eyes and drag her husband away from the other confused old man was the highlight of my day.
 
Yes, but we can't underestimate how hard a good chunk of people have it. When you have large imbalances in income and wealth and little social welfare services, the people at the lower end are going to be closer to living in a modern Les Miserable than people in industrialized countries with more equitable distributions of income and better social supports. And that should be considered unacceptable for a wealthy country in the 21st century. People in parts of the US probably have more in common with people in developing nations than they do with, say, somebody in Norway.

I agree with this. It is accelerating and is a problem. The only thing that bothers me is that people on here well over estimate the amount living in the impoverished class (surprising because it is as you said much larger than it should be) and make living in the middle class far worse than it really is. It doesn't mean that we should fight to improve things because otherwise that will soon be a reality. I just feel that some people on here need to get more in touch with reality. You don't need to exaggerate things to know that we need to make some changes in the country.

Our grid too. Our current set up couldn't handle every American coming home to plug in their car.

Good point.
 

FLEABttn

Banned
If they were for gay marriage then they would actually support the legislation and court decisions that favor marriage equality.

Instead they go off on this ideological rant that government should not be involved in the say of who can and cannot marry.

They often say, "Get the government out of marriage".
And that's pretty much the only way many of them will support gay marriage.
Whether we like it or not, the government is always going to have a say in recognizing a marriage.

We are far past the point of just making marriage a private contract. We have alimony laws, citizenship laws, divorce and custody laws, power of attorney laws, tax laws, and a whole slew of other things.

I've argued this with a couple of Libertarians now and they pretty much want the entire institution of civil marriage to go. (Why? Who the fuck knows, really.)

It's an entirely nonsensical position to even hold unless you're an AnCap, at that. Who enforces contracts? The state...oops.
 
In the midst of my two hour wait for some meds at a military pharmacy two retired gentleman proceed to get into an argument over Medicare, Tricare, and Obamacare. After confusing and conflating terms, in addition to generally knowing fuck all about any of the three programs, one of the men concluded at the end that his wait time was the result of...Obamacare. At a military pharmacy. Watching the wife of one of the nitwit's just roll her eyes and drag her husband away from the other confused old man was the highlight of my day.
So is this a pharmacy run by the VA? Thus, it is a pharmacy that has nothing to do with Obamacare . . . but they blame Obamacare? Go Figure.

BTW, the VA pharmacy is a model system that should have been copied . . . they actually bargain for good prices on drugs. But the GOP couldn't stand to have that in Medicare Part D because of all the pharma donations they got.
 
Our grid too. Our current set up couldn't handle every American coming home to plug in their car.

Actually, as long as you program EVs to wait until midnight or so before charging, the grid could handle some 73 million EVs without a single new power plant.
http://energytech.pnnl.gov/publications/pdf/PHEV_Feasibility_Analysis_Part1.pdf

I'm sure you'd have to beef up some local transformers in places. But in reality, the grid would probably get BETTER with lots of EVs if they did a V2G system and used EVs to help with frequency regulation.

And electricity could theoretically be CHEAPER because you'd would have more paying customers such that CAPEX costs would be paid down much faster with all that electricity being purchased at night.

It is really the price of batteries and consumer acceptance that are the big stumbling blocks with EVs. But both will change over time.
 
And to be fair the Democrats passed on it too. These are pretty blatant examples of political power siding with corporate power against people, but in the US politicians aren't held accountable for such attacks on the people. Until they are they will continue to flock to the money, because that's what's needed to stay in political power in a free market electoral system.
 
https://twitter.com/PatDollard/status/451488153468010496



This guy is a contributing writer for Breitbart,
baEyt8O.png
 

Wilsongt

Member
What an idiot. Only Republicans can get away with allowing someone like that to stay employed, yet a minor "racist" segment or a badmouth of a former presidents sends people to a call for heads if they are Democrats.
 

Piecake

Member
Is it wrong I'm not as despondent as most of GAF is? I don't know if I read too much history but I don't get the "Its so much worse" "democracy is over" responses to so many things.

Pretty much my feelings. A good portion of the people in every era think that their problems are unique, and that the current climate and social forces/problems will doom society and democracy.

I also don't get the whole politicians are so much worse now argument. A quick look at American history will tell you that politicians were always intriguing, backstabbing partisans. The only difference now is that certain norms that governed behavior have eroded. The simple solution is to put in place a structural solution to fix the problem, and not bemoan the 'moral failings' of our politicians.
 

benjipwns

Banned
The only difference now is that certain norms that governed behavior have eroded.
Like duels because somebody wrote a bad column about you in the newspaper and almost beating people to death with canes on the Senate floor for opposing slavery.
 

Tamanon

Banned
So there's this minor controversy about a Congressional race down in Florida.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/florida-gop-candidate-vampire-role-player

An attorney challenging first-term Rep. Ted Yoho (R-FL) moonlights as a live-action vampire role-player, according to a Florida political news site.

SaintPetersBlog on Tuesday detailed Jake Rush's involvement in the Mind's Eye Society, a national community of live-action role-players. Rush played a host of supernatural characters -- “Chazz Darling" and “Staas van der Winst" were just two of his alter-egos -- and kept up an active presence on the Camarilla Wiki Project, a Wikipedia-like website that allowed role-players to share content.

Basically a GOP guy who used to LARP, so that's sent the religious right down there into a tizzy.

When I first saw the story, I remembered my brother still LARPs. He just called me to tell me he was the one who revealed this guy's past. Small world, guess there'll be an interview with my bro in the Gainesville paper tomorrow about it.
 

Piecake

Member
Like duels because somebody wrote a bad column about you in the newspaper and almost beating people to death with canes on the Senate floor for opposing slavery.

I was thinking more along the lines of practices that gum up the government like the filibuster, secret holds and the like. Duels and beatings really don't hinder the government from getting shit done ;)
 

Wilsongt

Member
So there's this minor controversy about a Congressional race down in Florida.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/florida-gop-candidate-vampire-role-player



Basically a GOP guy who used to LARP, so that's sent the religious right down there into a tizzy.

When I first saw the story, I remembered my brother still LARPs. He just called me to tell me he was the one who revealed this guy's past. Small world, guess there'll be an interview with my bro in the Gainesville paper tomorrow about it.

Modern day witchhunt. BURN THE HERETIC!
 

benjipwns

Banned
I was thinking more along the lines of practices that gum up the government like the filibuster, secret holds and the like. Duels and beatings really don't hinder the government from getting shit done ;)
I don't know, they hindered Hamilton's plans for the government.
 

Chumly

Member
LINK

By 4 p.m. Tuesday, 11,848 applications had been received, and 4,152 had been automatically approved, according to the Department of Community Health. The state expects 320,000 residents to sign up in the first 12 months. The number could grow as high as 470,000 over time.
12 thousand people for start of Michigan Medicaid expansion
 

Piecake

Member
I don't know, they hindered Hamilton's plans for the government.

Well, death does do that. Not sure how that has to do anything with government norms since that was a disagreement between individuals, albeit mostly about politics, that they determined to settle through a duel. Seems more like a aristocratic societal norm that was still somewhat in place.

Not really sure how much juice Hamilton had as a politician anymore anyways after his sex scandal and destroying his own party with that article against Adams.
 

Hop

That girl in the bunny hat
What ever happened with Oregon's state exchange, by the way? Did they get the website working, or is it all still paper/phone? (Ghaleon?)

Still all paper and phone, far as I can tell. Haven't actually tried to go through. (I don't know what my insurance status is after being laid off, but they bumped the deadline to April 30th because of all the fuckups, so I'm stalling until I figure out my work status first.)
 
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