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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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Averon

Member
For as much as conservatives loves to project how powerful, strong, and tough they are, they sure do love to bitch and whine whenever anything doesn't go their way. Sometimes even the mildest criticism can set off their persecution complex.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Oh FFS. Sure, let's just keep on sliding down the slippery slope.

I guess I can take comfort in the fact that this campaign, at least, is unlikely to gain any traction. Since no one gives a shit about wiretapping and privacy violations.
This. Rice appointment seems totally tone deaf to me. But I doubt anyone else will care :(
 
For as much as conservatives loves to project how powerful, strong, and tough they are, they sure do love to bitch and whine whenever anything doesn't go their way. Sometimes even the mildest criticism can set off their persecution complex.

This reminds me of this Movie criticism of Captain America by John Podhoretz.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/fear-and-loathsome_786752.html

The thesis of the piece is that by subverting the good guy/bad guy tropes and attacking the powers that be, comic book movies are promoting 'far-left radicalism'.

The subtext to me is Podhoretz, who has supported the polices people are roundly rejecting, is frustrated that people view him as a 'bad guy' and is flabbergasted that screenwriters could even insinuate such a thing (Don't they know I'm the good guy!??!) and blames them for 'confusing/distracting the people' from the 'real enemy' (Which to Podhoretz is always Islam, always). They can't deal with the fact that they're not always 'good' that many times they are the enemies of the things they claim to protect .

Also, Podhoretz, if your gonna write about a movies story get it right. Hydra isn't the Nazis.

Edit:
Bk8-38CIUAAWAex.jpg
 
Note Sharpiro has a book detailing how to "destroy" liberals in debates. If you can destroy the views of those you disagree with, shouldn't you also be able to...mock them?

Rule #1: "Walk Toward the Fire." According to Shapiro, conservatives must learn to "embrace the fight" and know that they will be attacked, because this is war. His advice is simple: "You have to take the punch, you have to brush it off. You have to be willing to take the punch."

Rule #2: "Hit First. Don't take the punch first." Rule number two is: ignore rule number one, if their punch is coming first. Hit first, then brush it off. Just like Gandhi always said.

Rule #3: "Frame Your Opponent." Your leftist opponent will, according to Shapiro, call you a racist and a sexist, so in response call them a "liar and a hater." This third rule is described as "the vital first step. It is the only first step." That's why it comes third.

Rule #3: "Frame the debate." This is the second Rule #3, but who's counting?

Rule #4: "Spot Inconsistencies in the Left's Arguments." See: Both Rule #3s.

Rule #5: "Force Leftists to Answer Questions. This is really just a corollary of Rule #4." According to Shapiro, forcing the left to answer questions is like "trying to pin pudding to the wall - messy and near-impossible." If Ben Shapiro can teach us how to pin pudding to a wall even some of the time, liberals have no hope.

Rule #6: "Do Not Get Distracted." Just one page after the pudding analogy, Shapiro tells us that "Arguing with the left is like attempting to nail jello to the wall. It's slippery and messy and a waste of resources." If only he hadn't gotten distracted.

Rule #7: "You Don't Have To Defend People on Your Side." Here, Shapiro comes out in defense of not always defending your allies when you don't agree with them on everything, or when they get something wrong. Shapiro's friends were no doubt grateful for this rule back when he reported on the imaginary group "Friends of Hamas" in order to smear Chuck Hagel.

Rule #8: "If You Don't Know Something, Admit It." Unfortunately, Shapiro doesn't seem to have taken his own advice here: he still refuses to admit he has zero evidence "Friends of Hamas" ever existed.

Rule #9: "Let The Other Side Have Meaningless Victories." This "parlor trick" involves making it look like you're giving the other side space, while forcing them to define their terms. Terms like 'bullying' (the premise of Shapiro's book) and 'the number ten' are not listed as examples.

Rule #10: "Body Language Matters." According to Shapiro, McCain lost one of his 2008 debates because he was "angry-looking," and "Whomever looks angriest in debate loses. Immediately."

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/03/03/this-pundits-10-rules-for-right-wing-fight-club/198315

lol, people pay for this shit.
 
Hillary strikes me as the only democrat who can handily win. I don't believe the US would elect Biden president, and Cuomo is one of the most un-likable people in politics (not to mention he has a girlfriend). O'Malley is dull. Warren doesn't want to be president, and has no shot at winning (Wall Street and she's not a great politician, which is what you have to be to win with no experience - see Obama).

The best non-Hillary candidate will be Brian Schweitzer, and even he would run into base issues.

Republicans have a better bench in terms of firing up the base. Dems only have Hillary unless some dark horse magically arrives with Obama talent.
Too bad for them their base has gone off the fucking deep end and is liable to nominate someone too crazy to win a general election.

If they'd gone with the establishment candidates in Nevada, Delaware, Colorado (2010), Missouri and Indiana (2012) we'd have had a 50-50 Senate for the past three years and it would take nothing short of a miracle for Democrats to hold onto that in 2014.

There's a handful of "moderate" candidates who could win the nomination but will be pushed by the fringes like McCain and Romney were and all have their own baggage (Christie's is obvious, Bush is a Bush, etc)
 
On Thursday, a Senate committee in South Carolina voted to expand the state’s so-called “Stand Your Ground” law to approve the use of deadly force to protect a fetus. The proposal would grant pregnant women protection from prosecution if they were defending their “unborn children,” defined as “the offspring of human beings from conception until birth.”

.....

How the fuck can we be so goddamn stupid on this issue?
 

Averon

Member
I never understood why the right is obsessed with the unborn yet gives no shits about them after birth. Hell, they do everything they can to make their lives as hard as possible by gutting any sort of governmental assistance.
 
lol, people pay for this shit.

You know, cause EVERYTHING is war and a competition.

Mowing your lawn? WAR WITH YOUR NEIGHBORS.
Driving your kids to school? GOTTA BE IN FRONT. IM WINNING!
Conversation with another individual? I'M GOING TO DESTROY YOOOOOOU

It's really tiring to see people that are getting out-smarted due to their lack of education have to resort to acting like a big manly-man or a bully to pretend their point of view is better. It's funny that the last step is about getting angry, because most conservatives I've encountered that get out-maneuvered when they think they are going to "destroy their opponent" with this kind of self-help stuff are the first to get angry and want to say "I'll kick your ass!". So tough and strong!
 
You know, cause EVERYTHING is war and a competition.

Mowing your lawn? WAR WITH YOUR NEIGHBORS.
Driving your kids to school? GOTTA BE IN FRONT. IM WINNING!
Conversation with another individual? I'M GOING TO DESTROY YOOOOOOU

It's really tiring to see people that are getting out-smarted due to their lack of education have to resort to acting like a big manly-man or a bully to pretend their point of view is better. It's funny that the last step is about getting angry, because most conservatives I've encountered that get out-maneuvered when they think they are going to "destroy their opponent" with this kind of self-help stuff are the first to get angry and want to say "I'll kick your ass!". So tough and strong!
Society in general isn't forgiving of those who are wrong - so we get into the mentality that we have to be right at all times. This often leads to the mentality you point out or people loudly agreeing with each other. You can't both be right!
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
Dan Carlin went hard on Roberts in regards to McCutcheon v. FEC on his latest common sense podcast.
I don't always agree with him politically, and he can get quite hyperbolic, but I think he's spot on there.
Good listen too.

For what it's worth, Carlin's suggested campaign-finance scheme--where private spending by one candidate results in further government funding for another--has already been invalidated by the Supreme Court.
 
.....

How the fuck can we be so goddamn stupid on this issue?

I'm not following the purpose of this. It sounds like it's meant to give a shield to pregnant women if they are attacked by someone on the grounds that the attacker might harm the fetus? Well, problems with SYG aside, what problem is this supposed to address?
 

I mean...some of this is good stuff. You shouldn't have to defend every argument on your side. It's definitely good to stay focused on the issue at hand and not to get roped into defending things you didn't say. I'd say 6,7, and 8 are actually pretty good if you want to have a meaningful discussion. And hell, even 9 is effective if your goal is to "win" rather than have a discussion.

Society in general isn't forgiving of those who are wrong - so we get into the mentality that we have to be right at all times. This often leads to the mentality you point out or people loudly agreeing with each other. You can't both be right!

And you can see this mentality in the article itself. When good points come up, like 6,7, and 8, the author of the article just attacks dumb things that Shapiro has said in the past.
 
For what it's worth, Carlin's suggested campaign-finance scheme--where private spending by one candidate results in further government funding for another--has already been invalidated by the Supreme Court.
Its not worth anything to be honest, its by the same stupid majority which decided this. The problem is the court.

I hope a future court invalidates this horrible and intentionally naive decisions.

Edit: that's not an attack on your personally. I'm saying Roberts decisions have no value.
 
Of course it is not going to pass. But how come that budget which won't pass doesn't even get discussed at all.

Cause liberal media.

I do agree it sucks it gets no airtime. Though the pessimist in me assumes it would just be attacked for overspending and leaving our children with uncontrollable debt. Think of the children spec.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
Its not worth anything to be honest, its by the same stupid majority which decided this. The problem is the court.

I hope a future court invalidates this horrible and intentionally naive decisions.

Edit: that's not an attack on your personally. I'm saying Roberts decisions have no value.

Oh, I didn't take it as an attack on me.

Personally, I'm skeptical of the conservative majority's reasoning in many of their campaign finance decisions--though open to persuasion. I wasn't persuaded by the reasoning in McCutcheon, though I also don't expect the consequences to be the catastrophe that many commenters here are predicting.
 
To be fair, the progressive budget wouldn't pass the senate, and it might not even have passed the house back when dems controlled it. Ryan's budget actually passed in the house, so it's not directly comparable.

And perhaps more importantly, Obama has nothing to say about it whereas every republican talks up Ryan's budgets.
 
I'm not following the purpose of this. It sounds like it's meant to give a shield to pregnant women if they are attacked by someone on the grounds that the attacker might harm the fetus? Well, problems with SYG aside, what problem is this supposed to address?

The purpose is to make laws that state that life begins at conception.
The excuse is the pregnant woman scenario.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
I'd say Biden but I think the "frat boy Biden" personality makes it hard for people to take him seriously.

Cuomo or O'Malley are names that keep coming up, and they certainly have pedigree but I don't think either of them are particularly inspiring. And fuck Cuomo.

I think if Hillary announced that she weren't running you'd see many more good, progressive candidates coming out but right now no one wants to go up against the Clinton machine.

I'd personally like to see Amy Klobuchar give it a shot.

If Bush could get elected twice, then Biden can also get past the frat boy thing to be elected as well. It's easy to make fun of, but I really don't know if I'd say that negatively effects votes. Even if it does hurt him some, I bet it's not enough to make him lose to an ass like cuomo or any of the idiots they end up choosing on the other side.
 
Cause liberal media.

I do agree it sucks it gets no airtime. Though the pessimist in me assumes it would just be attacked for overspending and leaving our children with uncontrollable debt. Think of the children spec.

That's the problem right there . . . that's wrong. These budgets actually close the deficit. Of course they do it with taxes and reduced military spending but they are generally not fiscally irresponsible budgets. Often times they are far more fiscally conservative than the conservative budgets.
 
Oh, I didn't take it as an attack on me.

Personally, I'm skeptical of the conservative majority's reasoning in many of their campaign finance decisions--though open to persuasion. I wasn't persuaded by the reasoning in McCutcheon, though I also don't expect the consequences to be the catastrophe that many commenters here are predicting.
I think there is some hyperbole in the "end of democracy". But I don't know how one doubts the influence money has on democracy. And how these decisions make it worse. It corrodes it slowly but surely.

You'll never 'see' the catastrophe. One day we'll just look back and realize it was happening in slow motion.

I mean, look at just the last two weeks:
http://www.vox.com/2014/4/11/5581272/doom-loop-oligarchy

1) Let's begin with the economics. A new study by economists Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman shows that the richest one percent of US households have almost doubled their share of the nation's wealth since the 1960s. One percent of the country owns more than 40 percent of the wealth — and that share is rising.

2) In contrast, the bottom 90 percent of the country owns less than 30 percent of the nation's wealth.

3) If you look closely, the rise of the one percent is actually the rise of the 0.1 percent. In the 1960s, this group owned about 10 percent of the nation's wealth. By 2012, they owned more than 20 percent.

4) It's well known that as the rich have gotten richer, the top income tax rate has gone down. In 1960, the top marginal tax rate was 91 percent. It's now 39.6 percent.

5) Similarly, as the wealthy have gotten wealthier, the estate tax — which taxes inheritances — has been declawed. In 1960, the tax began at estates of $60,000, and the top rate, which hit estates above $10,000,000, was 77 percent. Today the estate tax doesn't even begin until the estate is worth $5,340,000 — and after that, the top tax rate is just 40 percent.

6) On Thursday, the House passed Paul Ryan's 2015 budget. In order to get near balance, the budget contains $5.1 trillion in spending cuts — roughly two-thirds of which come from programs for poor Americans. Those cuts need to be so deep because Ryan has pledged not to raise even a dollar in taxes.

7) As a very simple rule, rich people pay more in taxes and poor people benefit more from services. So if you pledge to balance the budget without raising taxes, you're going to end up making the rich richer and the poor poorer. But Ryan goes further than that: he actually cuts taxes on the rich.

8) Ryan specifically promises to take the highest marginal income tax rate down from its current 39.6 percent to 25 percent. He also says he'll pay for it. But he doesn't say how he'll pay for it.

9) It's a safe bet that policies like, say, the estate tax — which taxes large inheritances — would disappear under Ryan-led tax reform. His 2010 budget roadmap, which included more details than his more recent budgets, eliminated the estate tax — which Ryan, like many Republicans, calls "the death tax" — entirely.

10) Mitt Romney proposed a similar plan and offered a similar lack of detail about how to pay for it. When the Tax Policy Center ran the numbers it quickly came clear why Republican politicians are so loathe to get specific: even under ridiculous favorable assumptions, they found the plan cut taxes on the rich and raised them on the middle class.

11) So the Ryan budget, as close as the details allows us to tell, cuts spending on programs that benefit poor people in order to cut taxes on rich people. It is easier for heirs to build great wealth if their inheritance isn't heavily taxes and it's harder for the poor to build wealth if they're kicked off Medicaid and need to spend that money on health insurance. So the wealthy will get wealthier and the poor will get poorer.

12) Less than a week before the Ryan budget passed the House, the conservative majority on the Supreme Court made the wealthy even more powerful in American politics. Prior to the McCutcheon v. FEC decision, no matter how rich you were, you could only donate $48,600 to political candidates in any one election cycle. Now there's no cap on total donations (though you can only give $2,400 to any individual candidate).

13) This comes just a couple of years after Citizens United and related decisions made it easy for rich Americans to spend unlimited sums on SuperPACs and other independent political organizations.

14) Wealthy people will be even better poised to influence the 2014 and 2016 elections than they were to influence the 2010 and 2012 elections. Now, wealthy people are not a single voting bloc, but most wealthy people would like to continue being wealthy. And so you see bipartisan movement towards policies that protect their wealth, most recently with the Democratic legislature in Maryland voting to eliminate the state's estate tax.
 
I'm not following the purpose of this. It sounds like it's meant to give a shield to pregnant women if they are attacked by someone on the grounds that the attacker might harm the fetus? Well, problems with SYG aside, what problem is this supposed to address?
If I remember the supposed strategy from a decade ago (if not longer) the general idea is to create a precedent where a fetus is considered a life, thereby setting up conflict with abortion laws.

I'm still seething from Texas' abortion laws being upheld when it's obvious they have zero concern about the health of women in closing all these abortion clinics. Its just a flat-out lie.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
People said that about the original Ryan budget, yet it's somehow become the political center since. See: the murray-Ryan compromise.

Like I said, it's because it won't pass even harder. At least the Paul Ryan budget made it through the house with complete republican support, while this one wouldn't even get a majority of Democrat's support in either chamber.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the Democrats.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Like clockwork. They are becoming so predictable.

Fox News gave Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) the opportunity Friday to say that he would use the confirmation of the next Health and Human Services Secretary as an instrument in his quixotic quest to repeal Obamacare.

He didn't exactly say he would try to block the confirmation of Office of Management and Budget Director Sylvia Mathews Burwell, who was nominated to replace Kathleen Sebelius -- but he didn't exactly pass on it either.

"I think Burwell presents an ideal opportunity to examine the failures that are Obamacare. And four years ago, reasonable minds could have differed over whether this thing might work," Cruz said. "Today, seeing the disaster, seeing the trainwreck that is Obamacare, in my view, it is the essence of pragmatism to acknowledge this thing isn't working. We need to start over, repeal every word of it. Start over."


Cruz's options would appear limited, though, after Senate Democrats detonated the nuclear option on filibusters for confirmation votes.
 
To be fair, the progressive budget wouldn't pass the senate, and it might not even have passed the house back when dems controlled it. Ryan's budget actually passed in the house, so it's not directly comparable.

And perhaps more importantly, Obama has nothing to say about it whereas every republican talks up Ryan's budgets.
There is a budget that was passed by Senate Democrats though - and would probably resemble what a Democratic House majority could pass.
 
Like clockwork. They are becoming so predictable.

When I read stuff like this, I just hold my head in my hands and contemplate how such an individual could exist. 7+ million Americans now have health care and can live potentially better, more secure lives now than they could before. What justice is there in the world that allows this man to still have an elected position when he can look at that and still say "disaster, trainwreck that is Obamacare".

I know echo chamber and all that but it's just sickening. Almost as sickening as that Paul Ryan budget that guts the poor to reward the wealthy.
 
I made this joke yesterday

Jay Carney russian/soviet plant confirmed!!!

drudge-siren.gif

WdCgpHY.jpg

drudge-siren.gif


He was Time's Moscow bureau chief

I saw this on Twitter today:
@charlescwcooke
Why does it surprise anyone that the White House press secretary would hang a piece of Soviet government propaganda on his wall?

@charlescwcooke 7m
I don’t understand why Soviet propaganda is more tasteful than the propaganda of any other totalitarian death cult. Maybe it’s just me.

this guy is supposed to be the National Reviews more "Serious Writers"
Edit: Said writers magazines cover

080712krugman1-blog480.jpg



Which will raise the ire of the conservative side for ignoring the precedent set by the Supreme Court...

Which is exactly what the Court is doing now.
 

Retro

Member
If they'd gone with the establishment candidates in Nevada, Delaware, Colorado (2010)

Fuck that noise. Christine "I'm not a witch!" O'Donnell was the gift that just kept on fuckin' givin' and that whole election cycle was wall-to-wall entertainment. She had a snowball's chance in hell from day one (Delaware has been pretty firmly blue since the 80s) so there wasn't any of that "What if she actually wins?" going on in the background. Just pure, unadulterated fun, she couldn't set one foot forward without putting the other in her mouth.

True Popcorn politics.
 
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Basically, moderate Republicans who were fed fear of the ACA for years have now seen it come and go and are looking around saying "hm...nothing changed for me," and aren't buying the fear anymore.

That is a huge drop in the poll number. That's not insignificant. This goes exactly with what i've been arguing that come October, rallying against the ACA won't be the boon the GOP believes it will be.

Like clockwork. They are becoming so predictable.

Texas Ted = Baghdad Bob!
 
Fuck that noise. Christine "I'm not a witch!" O'Donnell was the gift that just kept on fuckin' givin' and that whole election cycle was wall-to-wall entertainment. She had a snowball's chance in hell from day one (Delaware has been pretty firmly blue since the 80s) so there wasn't any of that "What if she actually wins?" going on in the background. Just pure, unadulterated fun, she couldn't set one foot forward without putting the other in her mouth.

True Popcorn politics.
Her opponent in the primary was Mike Castle, a moderate Republican who was Delaware's sole representative in the House forever. No Democrat in the state wanted to run against him (Beau Biden notably backed down) and he was crushing all of his opponents by double digits in polling. No one expected O'Donnell to actually win the primary until PPP did a poll a couple weeks before the election.

The GOP pissed away a pickup, full stop. They only topped themselves in 2012 when Richard Mourdock edged out Dick Lugar,
 
Like clockwork. They are becoming so predictable.
Why is no one pushing back against words like disaster and trainweck Ted Cruz is using to describe Obamacare? I mean we hit the goal AND beyond despite a month's loss. That is a complete opposite of trainwreck/disaster/failure by any metric imaginable. If he were describing the launch then I dont care. But he is saying 9.1 million people having insurance due to Obamacare is a trainwreck. Deadheat.gif, but Sunday talking heads should be holding these assclowns accountable for their words.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Saw a billboard on the way home today that just said

BENGHAZI

IRS SCANDAL

HEALTHCARE

CLASS WARFARE

and then

LIARS

in an American flag typeface

*sigh*
 

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
Why is no one pushing back against words like disaster and trainweck Ted Cruz is using to describe Obamacare? I mean we hit the goal AND beyond despite a month's loss. That is a complete opposite of trainwreck/disaster/failure by any metric imaginable.

He is obviously referring to the Republican trainwreck.
 

Hige

Member
I was looking at the #dropdropbox hashtag on twitter, and there are conservatives tweeting at the CEO to not give into "liberal demands!!1!" by getting rid of Condi. Also, "progressives trying to chase a woman from the boardroom" like they care about female representation all of a sudden.

I thought there would be more Paulites outraged by this, but it's just more contrarian bullshit from the right.
 
Her opponent in the primary was Mike Castle, a moderate Republican who was Delaware's sole representative in the House forever. No Democrat in the state wanted to run against him (Beau Biden notably backed down) and he was crushing all of his opponents by double digits in polling. No one expected O'Donnell to actually win the primary until PPP did a poll a couple weeks before the election.

The GOP pissed away a pickup, full stop. They only topped themselves in 2012 when Richard Mourdock edged out Dick Lugar,

Let's not forget about Todd Akin either.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Was this posted? Obamacare causes health clinic to shut down:

Announcing that 9th Street Ministries, sponsored by the First Baptist Church in Mena, will offer its last clinic later this month, Nurse Stacey Bowser, the clinical director at 9th Street Ministries, said, “We’ve done our mission.” The clinic has offered free medical services once a month to the uninsured in Mena since 1998. For years, they were seeing hundreds of people a month desperate for care (the clinic only served people with no insurance of their own). But now folks in Mena are signing up with the private option and other coverage options via the ACA. “This complete dropoff of numbers of people coming to the clinic is a result of all those who have successfully enrolled in an insurance policy now,” Bowser said.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/closing-arkansas-clinic-weve-done-our

Obama's America.
 

Retro

Member
Her opponent in the primary was Mike Castle, a moderate Republican who was Delaware's sole representative in the House forever. No Democrat in the state wanted to run against him (Beau Biden notably backed down) and he was crushing all of his opponents by double digits in polling. No one expected O'Donnell to actually win the primary until PPP did a poll a couple weeks before the election.

Yep, been a Delaware resident since '07. Castle was well-liked and respected even amongst Democrats (quite a few of whom voted for him) and seeing the Tea Party pound a wildly-popular candidate like him into the dirt just to get one of their wild-eyed fanatics on the ticket was like watching a train wreck in slow motion. It made it all the more entertaining to watch her spin out of control as the weeks went on and the crazy started to pile up, knowing the Tea Party had cost the right an easy win.

I hope we see more of that.

They only topped themselves in 2012 when Richard Mourdock edged out Dick Lugar,

Ironically, the state I used to live in.
 
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