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PoliGAF 2015-2016 |OT3| If someone named PhoenixDark leaves your party, call the cops

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A Human Becoming

More than a Member
What's the argument that gun manufacturers should be held liable if a person who uses their gun hurts someone else? Of course in cases where the gun malfunctions I get, but not when the shooter was just violent. I can understand it for a seller if there are signs of violent tendencies.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
Alex Seitz-Wald ‏@aseitzwald 1h1 hour ago
New: Sanders team says they raised $250K tonight off David Brock healthcare story. "Once again, thanks team Clinton," Michael Briggs says.

Alex Seitz-Wald ‏@aseitzwald 2h2 hours ago
Also: Bernie Sanders has raised $3 million since Tuesday.

Save some of that money for the general. Sheesh.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
What's the argument that gun manufacturers should be held liable if a person who uses their gun hurts someone else? Of course in cases where the gun malfunctions I get, but now when the shooter was just violent. I can understand it for a seller if there are signs of violent tendencies.

Here's a NYTimes article from back then explaining the issue

SINCE the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, Connecticut has been a leading producer of guns, the birthplace of the Colt revolver that tamed the West. But now the state's cities are turning against the industry and joining a wave of lawsuits aimed at taming handguns at the expense of their manufacturers.

The Mayor of Bridgeport, Joseph P. Ganim -- saying that the manufacturers fail to employ new technology that could make their products safer and that the failure constitutes negligence -- announced last week that his city had filed suit in State Superior Court under Connecticut's product liability laws. Mr. Ganim also said that officials in Hartford and New Haven are studying whether to join him. ''We're very interested in what he's doing,'' said Hartford Mayor Mike Peters. New Haven has begun to research the legal issues, and will probably file a lawsuit as well, says the city's Corporation Counsel, Thayer Baldwin. He expected that New Haven would extend an invitation to gun manufacturers to negotiate before filing a such a suit.

The Bridgeport suit named 12 American firearms manufacturers, three handgun trade associations, and a dozen southwestern Connecticut gun dealers, and asked for damages ''in excess of $100 million.''

Robert R. Simpson, a lawyer who is helping represent Bridgeport, said the gun shops were included for being part of the ''stream of commerce'' in the gun industry, and the trade associations for promoting the idea -- which he labeled as false -- that handgun ownership is an effective means of personal protection.

Mr. Ganim has offered to negotiate a settlement if the companies will agree to improve the design of their handguns to prevent their misuse. ''We're saying to the handgun manufacturers that from now on you are responsible for the cost of handgun violence, not Bridgeport families,'' Mr. Ganim said at a news conference last Wednesday.

The action adds Bridgeport to a growing number of cities across the country that have taken the suggestion of the United States Conference of Mayors, on whose advisory board Mr. Ganim sits, to seek stricter controls on handguns through litigation, a goal that has proved elusive through legislation.

The idea was inspired by state lawsuits against the tobacco industry that claimed that cigarette makers marketed a product that they knew caused disease, and that activity cost the states billions of dollars in increased Medicaid costs.

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/01/31/nyregion/after-tobacco-handgun-lawsuits.html?pagewanted=all

They were going after handguns and were having some success, hence the law putting a stop to it.
 

Hexa

Member
Great video. thread that

Eh. I don't think its worth a thread. Whoever making the OT for the primaries should probably throw it in though. You would think it would be a common thing but I don't think any other candidates have done it yet surprisingly. I personally think that he'll win in a land slide in both Iowa and NH and that his polls aren't accurate since no one wants to admit they support him but they'll come in and vote when it counts and then tell other people they voted for Cruz or something.

Also, y'all see this yet?

https://youtu.be/V-NaN1ujo_0?t=84

For those that can't watch, he read out the lyrics of a song during a rally:

Snake by Al Wilson

On her way to work one morning
Down the path along side the lake
A tender hearted woman saw a poor half frozen snake
His pretty colored skin had been all frosted with the dew
"Oh well," she cried, "I'll take you in and I'll take care of you"
"Take me in oh tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in oh tender woman, " sighed the snake

She wrapped him up all cozy in a curvature of silk
And then laid him by the fireside with some honey and some milk
Now she hurried home from work that night as soon as she arrived
She found that pretty snake she'd taking in had been revived
"Take me in, oh tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in oh tender woman, " sighed the snake

Now she clutched him to her bosom, "You're so beautiful," she cried
"But if I hadn't brought you in by now you might have died"
Now she stroked his pretty skin and then she kissed and held him tight
But instead of saying thanks, that snake gave her a vicious bite
"Take me in, oh tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in oh tender woman, " sighed the snake

"I saved you," cried that woman
"And you've bit me even, why?
You know your bite is poisonous and now I'm going to die"
"Oh shut up, silly woman," said the reptile with a grin
"You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in

Actual song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULx9k2QkL94

I need to start watching these again. They're getting crazier and crazier
and more entertaining
 
isidewith has some shitty categories that lead to ridiculous results.

I got a quiz from them where the "science" category had one question "do you support funding space travel?" I voted no so it says that the only thing I agree with the Republicans on is science questions, lmao. "I side the most with Donald Trump on science questions." I'm fucking dead, oh god.

I'm still at 92% for Bernie and 90% for Hillary.
 

Hexa

Member
isidewith has some shitty categories that lead to ridiculous results.

I got a quiz from them where the "science" category had one question "do you support funding space travel?" I voted no so it says that the only thing I agree with the Republicans on is science questions, lmao.

I'm still at 92% for Bernie and 90% for Hillary.

Isidewith is absolute bullshit.

NLXQHbZ.png
 

Iolo

Member
Secret ballot helps Trump's chances. I thought you had to raise your hand or something for a caucus.

Democratic caucuses yes, it is all in the open and nonviable candidates may have their votes move to viable candidates.

I don't know what the point of Republican caucuses vs a primary is, except for 1) doing party business; 2) getting a speech from each precinct captain; and 3) depressing turnout (so activists have a large say). I suspect 3) is the primary motivation.
 

dabig2

Member
Isidewith is absolute bullshit.

https://i.imgur.com/NLXQHbZ.png[IMG][/QUOTE]

I seriously don't understand how results like this can happen. Did you not go to the "more choices" options on a lot of those, which is basically just the actual opinion of a candidate? Or not fiddle around with the "how important is this topic to you"?

My results since it's been a little while since my last go:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/8sMrv75.png
jroMWBR.png


See, that makes sense.
 

benjipwns

Banned
A top surrogate for Hillary Clinton is prepping a new attack in an intensifying and increasingly personal war against rival Bernie Sanders — calling on the 74-year-old to release his medical records before the Iowa caucuses on Feb. 1.

Clinton defender David Brock — founder of the Correct the Record PAC, which coordinates directly with Clinton’s campaign — is expected to hit the airwaves this weekend from Charleston, the scene of the third Democratic debate on Sunday night, and challenge Sanders to cough up a clean bill of health and doctor’s note in the next 16 days, according to a Democrat familiar with his thinking who was not authorized to preview any strategy.
Well, that's not illegal or anything.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Also ironic that Bernie won't tell us about his health that he gets checked for free by being a Senator but at the same time wants to dismantle the ACA and Medicare and Medicaid.
 
isidewith has some shitty categories that lead to ridiculous results.

I got a quiz from them where the "science" category had one question "do you support funding space travel?" I voted no so it says that the only thing I agree with the Republicans on is science questions, lmao. "I side the most with Donald Trump on science questions." I'm fucking dead, oh god.

I'm still at 92% for Bernie and 90% for Hillary.

I've found that iSidewith doesn't do enough to differentiate the results from picking different answers. For example, on an environmental question about increasing regulations of carbon emissions, I answered "no, tax carbon instead", and it matched me up with Republicans that only have "no" answers. That's a fundamental difference that isidewith just doesn't recognize.
 
Also ironic that Bernie won't tell us about his health that he gets checked for free by being a Senator but at the same time wants to dismantle the ACA and Medicare and Medicaid.
If dismantling ACA I favor of single payer is really a problem for you, then you are a problem. It's a shit system that fails to cover everyone and leaves in place the extortion of private insurance companies that have no business directing or controlling health care.
 

dramatis

Member
But Yellowtail, everybody hates Hillary

If dismantling ACA I favor of single payer is really a problem for you, then you are a problem. It's a shit system that fails to cover everyone and leaves in place the extortion of private insurance companies that have no business directing or controlling health care.
Sorry, but there's no "right" or "wrong" when it comes to a case like the ACA. I could just as easily say you are a problem, because all you care about is your ideals and not about people who will suffer. If you can't jive with reality, your problem is probably not us or the ACA.
 
But Yellowtail, everybody hates Hillary


Sorry, but there's no "right" or "wrong" when it comes to a case like the ACA. I could just as easily say you are a problem, because all you care about is your ideals and not about people who will suffer. If you can't jive with reality, your problem is probably not us or the ACA.
The ACA is shit. Devoted Obama folken won't admit it, but it should be a step TOWARD single payer, not a system that stays in place. It's flaws are legion. If you give up on single payer to keep ACA, you are wrong-headed.

The only people that would suffer under single payer are private insurance companies and their investors. Pardon me if I don't cry about that.
 

FiggyCal

Banned
If dismantling ACA I favor of single payer is really a problem for you, then you are a problem. It's a shit system that fails to cover everyone and leaves in place the extortion of private insurance companies that have no business directing or controlling health care.

But Yellowtail, everybody hates Hillary


Sorry, but there's no "right" or "wrong" when it comes to a case like the ACA. I could just as easily say you are a problem, because all you care about is your ideals and not about people who will suffer. If you can't jive with reality, your problem is probably not us or the ACA.

I don't understand how either of these comments respond to each other. Like what does the first response have to do with benji's obvious troll? And why would replacing the ACA with single payer cause more people to suffer?!
 
If dismantling ACA I favor of single payer is really a problem for you, then you are a problem. It's a shit system that fails to cover everyone and leaves in place the extortion of private insurance companies that have no business directing or controlling health care.

Today I learned: wanting to keep the only program in place that's going to be keeping me insured after 26 and before my kidneys fail makes me a "problem"
 
Today I learned: wanting to keep the only program in place that's going to be keeping me insured after 26 and before my kidneys fail makes me a "problem"
Do you just not understand what single payer is, or....? Single payer covers everyone. Before 26, after 26, regardless of pre-existing conditions. You're basically saying, "You can't replace my shit sandwich with a ham sandwich because I'll starve."
 

benjipwns

Banned
If dismantling ACA I favor of single payer is really a problem for you, then you are a problem. It's a shit system that fails to cover everyone and leaves in place the extortion of private insurance companies that have no business directing or controlling health care.
And in the mean time what helps me when I get shot up by all the psychopaths gun fanatic Bernie wants to send out into the streets with semi-automatics with shoulder things that go up?
 

dramatis

Member
The ACA is shit. Devoted Obama folken won't admit it, but it should be a step TOWARD single payer, not a system that stays in place. It's flaws are legion. If you give up on single payer to keep ACA, you are wrong-headed.

The only people that would suffer under single payer are private insurance companies and their investors. Pardon me if I don't cry about that.
Who said they were giving up on single payer? If we can use ACA to Trojan horse single payer, why not keep it?

All you have is lofty "I'm better than this" shit, then go ahead and come up with a viable solution in the current political environment to repeal ACA and get single payer passed. Notably, you will probably get the repeal ACA part, but you certainly won't get the single payer part, so all you got for your ideals is harm to the individuals that benefited from ACA.

Pardon me if I see you as the wrong-headed one here, because what I see is what will happen under your impatient desires. It's so easy to point out flaws, so hard to fix them. Equally easy to flap your mouth on top of a pedestal looking down at all the other people who are willing to work things out below. Did you forget the basic moral of the tortoise and the hare?

Yeah, you don't have to cry because you don't actually suffer if ACA is repealed. We get it. Good on you for having the option to be high and mighty.
 
Do you just not understand what single payer is, or....? Single payer covers everyone. Before 26, after 26, regardless of pre-existing conditions. You're basically saying, "You can't replace my shit sandwich with a ham sandwich because I'll starve."
And people keep claiming Clinton supporters are the condescending ones.

Guess what happens in the event of implementation lag in my state (i.e. the GOP supermajorities in both chambers of the Statehouse throw a shitfit like they initially did with Medicaid before Kasich did an end around) under the 2013 plan?

Guess what happens if you get ACA repeal but not the single-payer, which is extremely likely given that the best conditions for Democrats since 1964 couldn't even get a "public option"?

Guess what generally happens outside of Depression-Era conditions when you assume you're going to get absolutely everything you want?
 

FiggyCal

Banned
And in the mean time what helps me when I get shot up by all the psychopaths gun fanatic Bernie wants to send out into the streets with semi-automatics with shoulder things that go up?

Can I get a book recommendation right quick? I'm looking for something making an argument in favor of gun ownership rights.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
And people keep claiming Clinton supporters are the condescending ones.

Guess what happens in the event of implementation lag in my state (i.e. the GOP supermajorities in both chambers of the Statehouse throw a shitfit like they initially did with Medicaid before Kasich did an end around) under the 2013 plan?

Guess what happens if you get ACA repeal but not the single-payer, which is extremely likely given that the best conditions for Democrats since 1964 couldn't even get a "public option"?

I notice a lot of Ohio Gaf in here.

Ohio
Sea Manky
Ebay Huckster
adam387
BertramCooper
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
I might've missed something, but is there any reason why anyone wouldnt make the same piece of legislation that implements SP be the same piece of legislation that revokes the ACA?

Like, why are yall arguing like this is a two step deal? It aint. You either manage to grab that horrendously hard to reach star, or keep the current deal going. No one would ever be stupid enough to go "hmm, better repeal this thing first before i pass that other thing that will replace it".

But i mightve missed something.
 

benjipwns

Banned
I might've missed something, but is there any reason why anyone wouldnt make the same piece of legislation that implements SP be the same piece of legislation that revokes the ACA?

Like, why are yall arguing like this is a two step deal? It aint. You either manage to grab that horrendously hard to reach star, or keep the current deal going. No one would ever be stupid enough to go "hmm, better repeal this thing first before i pass that other thing that will replace it".

But i mightve missed something.
2024 Presidential-frontrunner Chelsea Clinton and 2016 President-elect Hillary Clinton exposed Sanders hard-right neoliberal fascist agenda to strip health care from the working class and respond to any sick person by burning their house down. And that is wrong. That is just wrong.
Chelsea Clinton said in a stump speech in New Hampshire: “Sen. Sanders wants to dismantle Obamacare, dismantle the CHIP program, dismantle Medicare, dismantle private insurance. … I worry that if we give Republicans Democratic permission to do that, we’ll go back to an era — before we had the Affordable Care Act — that will strip millions and millions and millions of people of their health insurance.”
Hillary Clinton said at a campaign stop in Iowa that Sanders’ plan would “take Medicare and Medicaid and the Children’s Health Insurance Program and the Affordable Care Act health-care insurance and private employer health insurance and he would take that all together and send health insurance to the states, turning over your and my health insurance to governors.”
“You know, I adore my daughter and I know what she was saying,” Clinton told “Good Morning America” about Chelsea Clinton. “Because if you look at Senator Sanders’ proposals going back nine times in the Congress, that’s exactly what he’s proposed. To take everything we currently know as health care, Medicare, Medicaid, the CHIP Program, private insurance, now of the Affordable Care Act, and roll it together.”
 
Who said they were giving up on single payer? If we can use ACA to Trojan horse single payer, why not keep it?

All you have is lofty "I'm better than this" shit, then go ahead and come up with a viable solution in the current political environment to repeal ACA and get single payer passed. Notably, you will probably get the repeal ACA part, but you certainly won't get the single payer part, so all you got for your ideals is harm to the individuals that benefited from ACA.

Pardon me if I see you as the wrong-headed one here, because what I see is what will happen under your impatient desires. It's so easy to point out flaws, so hard to fix them. Equally easy to flap your mouth on top of a pedestal looking down at all the other people who are willing to work things out below. Did you forget the basic moral of the tortoise and the hare?

Yeah, you don't have to cry because you don't actually suffer if ACA is repealed. We get it. Good on you for having the option to be high and mighty.

Fuck the tortoise and the hare, it's been 40 years of slow backsliding, only recent half-turgid semi-successess withstanding.

No one is talking about repealing ACA, but if we can't replace it, then it's worse than not having it.
 
I might've missed something, but is there any reason why anyone wouldnt make the same piece of legislation that implements SP be the same piece of legislation that revokes the ACA?

Like, why are yall arguing like this is a two step deal? It aint. You either manage to grab that horrendously hard to reach star, or keep the current deal going. No one would ever be stupid enough to go "hmm, better repeal this thing first before i pass that other thing that will replace it".

But i mightve missed something.

No dude, don't you understand? You HAVE to repeal ACA completely to implement single payer. /s
 
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