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PoliGAF 2015-2016 |OT3| If someone named PhoenixDark leaves your party, call the cops

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Jebmentum is good because (if he was the nominee) he'll depress Republican turnout because he's not "conservative enough," Democrats will turnout against him due to the truly horrifying things he's endorsed (ending food stamps, etc), independents will vote against him because of the W-era, and hate crimes will likely decrease because Jeb doesn't have the rhetoric or the speaking skills to encourage people to attack Muslims like Trump or Cruz can.
 
And the DNC has noticed! Congratulations! Now go out and ACTUALLY vote for Sanders. This is how Hillary wins. Because people like you don't vote


I was so hoping that you'd write that. Thank you. Thank you so much.


We'll know if the dnc has taken proper notice in 2018, fwiw
 
The modern presidency has many powers that can be used without Congressional approval. Particularly in administrative discretion. And murdering Americans without due process.

Sure and... oh wait no one gives a shit. People are wondering why Obama hasn't tackled gun control. why we don't have single payer, why big banks are still around.

Public perception is the only thing that matters in these times. Doing isn't enough, but saying you CAN do it in the other hand...
 

Angry Fork

Member
Ah, so radical is better then. So Donald Trump, the most radical of all, must appeal most to the stupid poor/working class people... oh wait.

Poor/working class white people who are racist/fascist are voting for their own interest when they go for Trump, he's more likely to deliver what they want than someone like Jeb. For them it's the right choice sure. Poor/unemployed who aren't racist however are more likely to go radical in the left direction because they have less to lose and need immediate changes.
 
I'd sell you my vote but apparently that's "illegal" when it's a transaction between two private individuals without the state as a middleman.

Trump attack ad: Hillary voters are calling for foreigners to vote in the Dem Primary!

Gods, im laughing way too much for such a simple joke.

Well Cory kinda.. Can't vote due to not being an American.

Venezuela Cory? Is that where you are from?

I'm American, just not United Statian.
(south american pet peeve)
Brazil.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Sure and... oh wait no one gives a shit. People are wondering why Obama hasn't tackled gun control. why we don't have single payer, why big banks are still around.
I'd trust a self-proclaimed socialist from Vermont to rock the boat more than someone who came up through the Chicago political machine and Ivy League establishment and immediately handed his car keys to Rahm Emanuel after having signed off on a multi-trillion dollar crony giveaway.
 
I'd trust a self-proclaimed socialist from Vermont to rock the boat more than someone who came up through the Chicago political machine and Ivy League establishment and immediately handed his car keys to Rahm Emanuel.

Rock the boat too much and the boat capsizes. Now everyone drowns.
 
Only the weak, fat bourgeoise will drown. Then we'll use their bodies as flotation devices and their fat as nourishment while we continue on our glorious journey towards revolution.
 

kess

Member
So I'm watching This Week and George's interview with Trump and holy fucking shit did he just unload on Cruz. Headshot after headshot.

He's making me feel very unsure about myself. I despise his positions but love the man for slaying Cruz.

It's amazing how easily Cruz let Trump set the narrative on this.
 
Poor/working class white people who are racist/fascist are voting for their own interest when they go for Trump, he's more likely to deliver what they want than someone like Jeb. For them it's the right choice sure. Poor/unemployed who aren't racist however are more likely to go radical in the left direction because they have less to lose and need immediate changes.

You're approaching this from the wrong angle. Those of us who are most vulnerable are, out of necessity, more pragmatic than a (typically) well off, white liberal. As a partially disabled gay man, I can't afford to roll the dice on someone like Sanders. Vulnerable minorities, especially racial and sexual ones, realize we cannot let the good be the enemy of the perfect. (Although I don't think Bernie is the perfect whatsoever).
 

Bowdz

Member
In a completely unsurprising twist...

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/donald-trump-2016-authoritarian-213533

Politico said:
If I asked you what most defines Donald Trump supporters, what would you say? They’re white? They’re poor? They’re uneducated?
You’d be wrong.

In fact, I’ve found a single statistically significant variable predicts whether a voter supports Trump—and it’s not race, income or education levels: It’s authoritarianism.
That’s right, Trump’s electoral strength—and his staying power—have been buoyed, above all, by Americans with authoritarian inclinations. And because of the prevalence of authoritarians in the American electorate, among Democrats as well as Republicans, it’s very possible that Trump’s fan base will continue to grow.

My finding is the result of a national poll I conducted in the last five days of December under the auspices of the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, sampling 1,800 registered voters across the country and the political spectrum. Running a standard statistical analysis, I found that education, income, gender, age, ideology and religiosity had no significant bearing on a Republican voter’s preferred candidate. Only two of the variables I looked at were statistically significant: authoritarianism, followed by fear of terrorism, though the former was far more significant than the latter.
 
Pretty good articles on the massive political difficulties single-payer will face in America:

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/16/10778350/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-single-payer
http://www.vox.com/2016/1/16/10779270/pollack-single-payer-in-america

(They'll need House control with 218+ liberal Dems, they'll need 60+ liberal Senators, they'll need to go to war with the AMA and prove that cutting doctors' wages is good for America, they'll need to go war with Big Pharma, they'll need to deal with a great many people being laid off due to the administrative staffs of the current medical system becoming redundant, they'll need to prove to the American middle class that they'll get as good of health care as before and that they'll be coming out ahead even with a massive payroll tax increase which will be difficult after "if you like your plan, you can keep it")
 

dabig2

Member
Bernie appeals to people who can afford a presidential generation of nothing particular happening in the name of "getting a democratic socialist into office", Hillary appeals to people who want to see compromised progress because at least compromised progress helps more people than idealistic grandstanding

Maybe, but this is still dangerous thinking. Compromised progress leads to things like "the era of big government is over!" and "I'm going to be really tough on crime!" which has done legitimate harm to impoverished communities in this country. I'm talking entire generations have been negatively impacted and that harm cannot be undone; not to mention that it's still happening. Or Obama offering up social security on a silver platter to Conservatives and almost letting them achieve a decades-long dream of theirs.

I rather we start to have some adult conversations with the American electorate instead of taking them for advantage. If you feel the greater public is too stupid to accept progressive positions you agree with, then maybe work better on convincing them instead of shitting on these progressive ideas and taking advantage of their basic misunderstanding. We all laugh when old people hold signs like "socialism is evil, don't let government take over my medicare" when we should be disappointed on why that sentiment even exists in the first place.

The country has moved to the right because liberals stood by and let it.
 
Running a standard statistical analysis, I found that education, income, gender, age, ideology and religiosity had no significant bearing on a Republican voter’s preferred candidate. Only two of the variables I looked at were statistically significant: authoritarianism, followed by fear of terrorism, though the former was far more significant than the latter.

... I like how he tried to say race wasn't a factor, but he can't actually measure it because there are almost no non-white Republicans.
 
Bless NBC's heart. That national poll doesn't fit the narrative they've been trying to sell to drum up interest in the debate tonight. So, god love em, they try and pull shit out of their ass to make it look closer than it is. Gotta have that horse race.

Oh, and I hate Andrea MItchell.
 
Americans, especially those without health insurance, are sicker than most people globally so yes switching to single payer would require more revenue. Even advocates of something like Medicare for all grant that it would cost $5 trillion dollars over 10 years after savings. Others think it would be much more. The Sanders campaign had said they would lay a plan for all this before Iowa but now seem to be backtracking.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gerald-friedman/the-wall-street-journal-k_b_8143062.html

It would require the health care sector to draw more GDP as a share of the economy relative to other universal health care systems. Which law says a single payer system requires more revenue? Congress recently cranked out major trillion $ legislation that does not require more revenue.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-114hr2029enr/html/BILLS-114hr2029enr.htm

I'm not sure what relevance forecasts by advocates or critics has? Does the estimated cost of $5 trillion or much more mean the US cannot attempt to implement single payer?
 
Don't be fooled by Bernie Sanders-he's a die hard communist

Just putting this here. I know it's the NY Post, However, if you want a taste of what the GOP will throw at Bernie should he get the nomination, here's a nice look at what would be coming.

image.jpg


This isn't even well done. Wait until Trump or one of the bajillion SuperPACs get a hold of it. If the GOP was scared to run against him, we'd see this shit all over the air right now.
 
Hmm, it's interesting how much Hillary is focusing on autism and Alzheimer's in the primary and how little the media is talking about those things right now. I wonder if the focus on "horse race" "battle for the party's soul" stuff makes the media focus on the competition other than the ideas unless the ideas are the defining characteristic of the candidate.

edit:... But Reagan did spend millions sponsoring terror in Nicaragua, lol.
 
Yep, Cruz deserves to be called out on that shit.

Head must be blowing up right around now.

Cruz dissed NY
NY is part of the USA
Cruz dissed the USA
Wait isn't Cruz Canadian?
And one of those horrible Latinos?
And he took $$$ from NY!
His wife works for NY bankers!
And he shut down the government!
Flip flops!
He hates the gays tho
He hates the government too.
He can shut down the government, that's a good thing.
But Medicare! And the army! Who's gonna stop the Mexicans! And the Latinos! And those Canadians with single payer, and terrorists from coming across the border!
Wait, isn't Ted Cruz a Canadian born Latino?
 

Holmes

Member
Hmm, it's interesting how much Hillary is focusing on autism and Alzheimer's in the primary and how little the media is talking about those things right now. I wonder if the focus on "horse race" "battle for the party's soul" stuff makes the media focus on the competition other than the ideas unless the ideas are the defining characteristic of the candidate.
Oh yeah. The media is all about this being a horse race, instead of it being about the actual issues. They're really the ones fuelling this, along with some... fired up people who will believe any misinformation they hear. That's why the tone has gotten nasty in the past week. But the thing is that both candidates are working towards the same goal. It's just the getting there that's different in some cases.
 

71-21 50+

My gosh that is huge.

The two most likely groups to vote. Add that her advantage among PoC and it's a really high hill for Bernie. There was a poll a few weeks ago that showed, while Bernie leads among the 18-45 year olds, it's only because he does so well with the 18-25 year olds. Hillary wins the groups over 25. So, Bernie wins the youngest of the young. I can't find that poll now, so maybe I made it up. It's possible.
 

Holmes

Member
Yeah, Sanders really needs to get the younguns and the indies to the polls for him, or it's over. But we knew that. If those indies decide to instead caucus for Trump or vote for him in the Republican primary, Sanders will be at a disadvantage.
 
Dem Dinner in South Carolina

The senator from Vermont delivered a forceful speech and appealed to a predominantly African-American audience with calls to overhaul the nation’s criminal justice system and cure chronic minority unemployment.

But it was Hillary Clinton who owned the room at a South Carolina Democratic Party dinner. In contrast to her two opponents, Clinton received boisterous, standing ovations at the start and finish of her speech. She offered herself as a steely protector of President Obama’s legacy who would preserve and extending his policies.

"If a kid today gets caught with some marijuana, that kid will get a police record,” Sanders said. “But when the heads of one of the largest financial institutions in this country, whose greed and recklessness destroyed the lives of millions of people, they can agree to a $5 billion settlement but no police records for any of them.”

Does...does he have a condition in which he simply cannot go more than 30 seconds without using the word "billion" or "billionaire"?

O’Malley also delivered a number of sharp jabs mocking Donald Trump and other Republican candidates.

“I’d like to say that Donald Trump is the most outrageous and unqualified person to run for president, but that’s not fair to Ted Cruz, is it?” O’Malley said, drawing hoots and applause from throughout the ballroom.

THAT'S MY BAE.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
The two most likely groups to vote. Add that her advantage among PoC and it's a really high hill for Bernie. There was a poll a few weeks ago that showed, while Bernie leads among the 18-45 year olds, it's only because he does so well with the 18-25 year olds. Hillary wins the groups over 25. So, Bernie wins the youngest of the young. I can't find that poll now, so maybe I made it up. It's possible.

She can win NH by winning IA + enough Independents vote in the R primary for who would otherwise have voted for Bernie.
 
She can win NH by winning IA + enough Independents vote in the R primary for who would otherwise have voted for Bernie.

I still think NH is out of reach. I'd like to be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Interestingly, I think that Bernie's people have failed at the expectations game. If Hillary had lost Iowa a few weeks ago, it would have been a big freaking deal. Now, though, they've pushed the meme that they're going to win it too hard. If she wins it now, instead of winning it as the front runner, she can say she won it by fighting her way towards it. It erases the coronation idea, because it gives her the appearance of having to work extra hard for it. If Bernie wins it now, well, that's what we've been hearing for days now. A loss is a blow to his campaign, I would argue, even more now.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
I still think NH is out of reach. I'd like to be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Interestingly, I think that Bernie's people have failed at the expectations game. If Hillary had lost Iowa a few weeks ago, it would have been a big freaking deal. Now, though, they've pushed the meme that they're going to win it too hard. If she wins it now, instead of winning it as the front runner, she can say she won it by fighting her way towards it. It erases the coronation idea, because it gives her the appearance of having to work extra hard for it. If Bernie wins it now, well, that's what we've been hearing for days now. A loss is a blow to his campaign, I would argue, even more now.

The only reason he's up in NH is due to Independents. Enough of them vote in the R primary instead and he's toast. Don't be surprised by either winning the first 2 states however.
 
I feel bad for O'Malley, I think he'd be a good candidate if he wasn't up against the Clinton juggernaut. I'd be ok with offering him a VP slot if there weren't any political calculations to that, but there totally are and Castro (energizing youth + Latino turnout) or Kaine (locking down Virginia) would both be much better options.
 

Angry Fork

Member
Don't be fooled by Bernie Sanders-he's a die hard communist

Just putting this here. I know it's the NY Post, However, if you want a taste of what the GOP will throw at Bernie should he get the nomination, here's a nice look at what would be coming.

This isn't even well done. Wait until Trump or one of the bajillion SuperPACs get a hold of it. If the GOP was scared to run against him, we'd see this shit all over the air right now.

When a fascist like Trump calls Sanders a communist, it doesn't make Sanders look bad, it legitimizes communism and rehabilitates the word in the eyes of the general public. Most people in the US aren't fascists and recognize Sanders isn't a scary evil guy. If they begin to associate left wing politics with someone like him it will be an overall positive thing. If Sanders gets the nomination I hope they do call him tons of left wing names, so those names gain a positive image again when people see it associated with a peaceful/reasonable guy like Bernie.
 
When a fascist like Trump calls Sanders a communist, it doesn't make Sanders look bad, it legitimizes communism and rehabilitates the word in the eyes of the general public. Most people in the US aren't fascists and recognize Sanders isn't a scary evil guy. If they begin to associate left wing politics with someone like him it will be an overall positive thing.

If people are seriously suggesting that Americans won't have negative connotations towards the word communist in the near future we should probably go ahead and close this thread. As has been posted pointed here numerous times US voters are more willing to vote for Muslims or atheists than socialists, much less communists.
 

PBY

Banned
If people are seriously suggesting that Americans won't have negative connotations towards the word communist in the near future we should probably go ahead and close this thread. As has been posted pointed here numerous times US voters are more willing to vote for Muslims or atheists than socialists, much less communists.
Pretty much this
 
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