I'm actually pretty indifferent to her. I actually think shed be a great president, but kind think the complaints about her being opportunistic and shitty in some ways are also true- just not sure that stuff matters.
PoliGAF 2015-2016 |OT3| If someone named PhoenixDark leaves your party, call the cops
- Thread starter Diablos
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Speaking against single payer shouldn't make her more likeable anyhow. It confirms the idea that she's not very progressive and dishonest.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Missed nothing, dramatis and NeoXChaos are literally just willing to buy into the fairly despicable Clinton messaging right now despite it being palpably untrue.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
This is sarcasm, right? I'll come back later.
disastermouse
Banned
True, many are regressive. Surprised to see so many of them unable to get off the fence and backing Hillary.
RustyNails
Member
Looks like Hillary was privy to this bit of news regarding her stance on Iran sanctions
So this is an altogether different sanction category related to Iran's ballistic missile program, not related to the lifting of sanctions related to nuclear enrichment. So, her stance is still in line with Obama admin.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Why are people pretending healthcare legislation is going to happen in the next 20 years?
I don't even know why the Clinton's went there.
I don't even know why the Clinton's went there.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Why are people pretending things will happen in the future if we don't fight for them now?
Black Republican
Member
The scholonging is about to begin thats why
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Nm. Looked it up
http://data.desmoinesregister.com/iowa-caucus/history/index.php#2008/dem/co/johnson
nice interactive on vote history by counties in IA.
nice interactive on vote history by counties in IA.
Jake Tapper on CNN was really pushing for the "ethnic" angle interpretation of Cruz's New York values comment. And even if Dinald Trump didn't go in that direction, and he could have... It's still showing that Ted really messed up even for the fact that people are saying it's possible he was being anti-Semitic.
Black Republican
Member
not once did i get an ethnic feeling from that line
i just thought it was a uppity liberal diss, straight up
SNL made a joke about it too. "If I could get away with saying "liberal Jews", I would".
Angry Fork
Member
The Clinton's appeal to people who are in comfortable situations, that's why she gets support from "middle class" and hollywood liberals. They can afford to care more about "slow progress" because they're not feeling the negative force of this country in the present like the poor/working class is. They don't need to support someone like Sanders who wants to fight for more radical/substantial changes asap.
Ogrekiller
Member
You mean the other way.
Sanders appeal is to the angry short term thinking people that ignore the consequences if they were to fail, since they were comfortable enough under the previous system. Maybe the true reformers realize that you can't force things in this environment because Congress isn't controlled by the Democrats and the President doesn't have the ability to write laws.
Would Sanders people vote for Democrat house/ senate members even knowing they aren't fully in agreement with Sanders? Something tells me they won't. Maybe because they are part of the crony establishment... which Sanders conveniently joined.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
... This is kind of counter to all forms of reality:
/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/5906075/Clinton-sanders_poll2.0.png)
/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/5906077/Clinton-sanders_poll1.0.png)
Black women are some of the poorest, most fucked-over people in this nation and they are the Hillary supporter.
Coriolanus
Banned
Cuz if one takes a realistic view of what will happen, then all that is left to argue is who would be the sanders/clinton SC candidates.
tldr cuz boredom
Indeed he did, and democrats should always have a very dear place in their hearts for the man for that.
Four_Chamber
Member
I like Bernie and will vote for him in the unlikely event that he wins the nomination. However, not that this means much, but I find the online presence of his supporters to almost dissuade me from doing so. Reading through the Hillary thread had me gagging.
We see lots of flowery rhetoric about ideals, etc.. but when it comes to the nitty-gritty detail of actually governing? Avoidance.
And thus far, the only counters I've seen to the SCOTUS point are:
- "We'll lobby SCOTUS."
- "We can pack the courts."
- "Who cares? We need a revolution/collapse for REAL change to happen."
Yeah.
===
And Trump apparently called Ted Cruz "a nasty guy" this morning on ABC.
Trump: "Nobody likes him. Nobody in Congress likes him. Nobody likes him anywhere once they get to know him. He's a very -- he's got an edge that's not good. "
I was wondering if there was a chance for a big, dramatic reunion.. but this doesn't seem likely. A pity. It would've been a fun ticket.
Bingo. It's like a lot of analytics, where you find correlations and try to figure out whether they are a) predictive, and b) causative. I get what Silver is doing, and it makes sense. I'm curious to see how this all plays out, though. More data is generally a good thing.
Yep.
Single Payer is my preferred system, but it would require functionally a 10% tax on everyone (via payroll tax, which will be passed onto workers). But you would need to probably also have price caps ala Europe on medical equipment in order to stop medical prices from inflating like crazy. Single Payer only works if you have a lot of other legislation to support it / cover up the holes it creates.
EDIT: I like this article on Trump supporters, it explains why Sanders / Trump have weird overlaps on supporters
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/donald-trump-2016-authoritarian-213533
Butts-a-plenty
Banned
Why do you endlessly harp on single payer when a move towards a Swiss system would make more institutional sense while still providing universal coverage? It would be easier while causing less disruption. It annoys me to no end that self-described liberals focus so heavily on single payer as the only option when it is clearly not the only viable solution to universal coverage and debatably not the best option.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Bernie appeals to people who can afford a presidential generation of nothing particular happening in the name of "getting a democratic socialist into office", Hillary appeals to people who want to see compromised progress because at least compromised progress helps more people than idealistic grandstanding
Quick notes on Nevada polling before any potential poll releases:
1. It can be very unreliable. Nevada (and Hawaii) seem to be the most difficult states to poll. Older Spanish speaking latinos (as well as Hawaii natives and Japanese-Americans) don't feel comfortable answering English questions to strangers or robots on the phone, but they do go out to vote.
2. And it's a caucus state, so it's all about ground game and organization, more so than a normal primary. So it's best to look at who's better organized to see who has the leg up.
1. It can be very unreliable. Nevada (and Hawaii) seem to be the most difficult states to poll. Older Spanish speaking latinos (as well as Hawaii natives and Japanese-Americans) don't feel comfortable answering English questions to strangers or robots on the phone, but they do go out to vote.
2. And it's a caucus state, so it's all about ground game and organization, more so than a normal primary. So it's best to look at who's better organized to see who has the leg up.
Lucky Forward
Member
One typical theory is that, for many minorities - especially those residing in states where the GOP has free rein - perceived electability takes heightened consideration because the only thing protecting them from the execesses of GOP rule is a strong federal judiciary.
Maybe Trump tried to work out a deal with Cruz and he refused.
South Carolina post-debate poll:
Trump: 32
Cruz: 18
Bush: 13
Rubio: 11
http://www.thestate.com/news/politi...s-columns-blogs/the-buzz/article55176940.html
--
There have been a few signs that we may be having a small case of Jebmentum, and here's another. If this momentum is true, this might be where Rubio's Starbucks-tier organizing might screw him over against Jeb's sunk-costs behemoth.
Trump: 32
Cruz: 18
Bush: 13
Rubio: 11
http://www.thestate.com/news/politi...s-columns-blogs/the-buzz/article55176940.html
--
There have been a few signs that we may be having a small case of Jebmentum, and here's another. If this momentum is true, this might be where Rubio's Starbucks-tier organizing might screw him over against Jeb's sunk-costs behemoth.
Coriolanus
Banned
This...assumption that public health care would increase costs is what i don't quite get, given that your country is often stated to have the highest spending in health care amongst developed countries (and google seems to back that up).
Like, the price should go down, not up.
As for legislation, it's a matter of straight lifting the best parts of systems already in place in other countries and adapting/mixing and matching. One would be very... ahm.. arrogant to try and make this sort of thing from scratch.
This is all aside from the fact that lolrepublicancongress, obv
Nothing will get done either way. There is absolutely no reason to think that republicans will stop blocking nearly everything once hills takes the wh
benjipwns
Banned
The Party Decides' major flaw is that it doesn't account for the modern information cycle provided by mainstreaming of the internet and even 24/7 partisan cable news. Let alone 527/SuperPACs.
The modern political information infrastructure and capability looks nothing like the one in 2000 or even 2004. To try and draw out patterns from the 1980s and earlier is even sillier.
The modern political information infrastructure and capability looks nothing like the one in 2000 or even 2004. To try and draw out patterns from the 1980s and earlier is even sillier.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Rubio with some thoughts on guns:
Probability that you will be shot to death by ISIS given that you die from a gunshot=15/30000=1/2000 (using 2015 rates)
Maybe it's the Graham-bump for Jeb.
Kasich got some endorsements in NH over the last few days so there's another state where Rubio will probably fall.
Probability that you will be shot to death by ISIS given that you die from a gunshot=15/30000=1/2000 (using 2015 rates)
Maybe it's the Graham-bump for Jeb.
Kasich got some endorsements in NH over the last few days so there's another state where Rubio will probably fall.
Roland_Gunner
Member
Americans, especially those without health insurance, are sicker than most people globally so yes switching to single payer would require more revenue. Even advocates of something like Medicare for all grant that it would cost $5 trillion dollars over 10 years after savings. Others think it would be much more. The Sanders campaign had said they would lay a plan for all this before Iowa but now seem to be backtracking.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gerald-friedman/the-wall-street-journal-k_b_8143062.html
Ogrekiller
Member
They won't but Clinton also carries with her the off chance that due to the extreme unfavorable ratings of the two front runners on the Republican side, with the Democratic Party machine and base behind her she might just be able to flip the House.
Oh, and SCOTUS. Nothing getting done will be worth that and along with no chance from the Repubs of a repeal of the accomplishments Obama has made over the past 8 years.
See, Bernie's appeal is that he is the best man to get things done. Take that away and now he has no platform to stand on. His followers, who see him as the all powerful man that can force Washington to its knees at the mere sight of Bernie's righteous fury, will all abandon him once it becomes transparent that he cannot get any of his promises passed. That the SCOTUS or ACA will fall doesn't matter to the most extremist of them, because they were all corrupt establishments before, and they weren't really affected by them anyway.
The only problem is that the disenchantment becomes ever more bitter, the insulation from the world ever greater. That's where the danger is.
Angry Fork
Member
Poor/working class people have almost always supported the more radical politicians throughout history. "Middle class" people often portray the poor as too stupid for their own good so not surprised by that kinda statement.
I didn't say middle class people were the only ones who support Clinton, just that Clinton is more likely to appeal to them than Sanders.
A republican congress would treat Hilary the same as they would Sanders, this is obvious. They might be even worse towards Hilary because she's a woman and more infamous. They're both equally incapable of achieving much on their own, but at least Sanders would use power of the pulpit to move the overton window to the left, and perhaps galvanize grassroots support to vote for dems during congressional elections.
Coriolanus
Banned
The odds of that actually happening are about as good as those of Bernie pulling off his revolution and doing the same.
By which i mean they're close to zero.
Basileus777
Member
Nate Silver is finally endorsing Trump.
It's Omarosa. This is happening.
Ogrekiller
Member
Yeah hence off chance. No one expects that to happen, but if it were, who would be better positioned, and who has the better odds of pulling it off?
In any case it was the best case scenario. The main aim is winning the presidency just to prevent the Republicans from controlling every branch of government.
But if you know nothing is going to get done, why vote for Sanders then?
Coriolanus
Banned
FoPo.
Also forcing the DNC to notice that why yes, there is a considerable number of folks in the left that wants Left, and not Left of Center, candidates.
(also, i kinda dont vote in primaries)
QuiteWhittle
Member
Warren endorsement incoming.
Jebmentum is interesting, because the party would prefer him to Rubio, but I also think he's the most imperfect candidate to stop either Trump or Cruz.
Ogrekiller
Member
And the DNC has noticed! Congratulations! Now go out and ACTUALLY vote for Sanders. This is how Hillary wins. Because people like you don't vote.
Ah, so radical is better then. So Donald Trump, the most radical of all, must appeal most to the stupid poor/working class people... oh wait.
A) There is lolrepublicancongress, that is a concern.
B) No one knows if the system can be scaled to the size of the US.
benjipwns
Banned
The modern presidency has many powers that can be used without Congressional approval. Particularly in administrative discretion. And murdering Americans without due process.
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