disastermouse
Banned
I'm in a swing state, too! Wisconsin could be tight.538 more Gore voters in 2000 in Florida would have stopped the Bush presidency.
But it's just one vote right.
I'm in a swing state, too! Wisconsin could be tight.538 more Gore voters in 2000 in Florida would have stopped the Bush presidency.
But it's just one vote right.
I don't think that's much of a counterpoint. Gore and the establishment failed pretty hard if he couldn't manage an extra 600 votes.538 more Gore voters in 2000 in Florida would have stopped the Bush presidency.
But it's just one vote right.
Haha. Hillary fans are too easily goaded. Relax, guys!I'm in a swing state, too! Wisconsin could be tight.
I keep hearing "I'm voting for Bernie" when I know a majority of these people most definitely aren't going to vote in the primaries.Being a Hillary supporter in college is hard. Everyone trying to shame me into voting Sanders in the primary. :S
Keep your head high, and be cordial. That's really most of what can be done.Being a Hillary supporter in college is hard. Everyone trying to shame me into voting Sanders in the primary. :S
I don't think that's much of a counterpoint. Gore and the establishment failed pretty hard if he couldn't manage an extra 600 votes.
You can vote your actual views and conscience (or not vote) but in United States it will funnel into the two party system. A vote for Jill Stein is effectively a lost Hillary vote. Meaning, it favors Republican candidate. Similarly if Rand were to run third party, a vote for Rand is a lost GOP vote, meaning, it favors the Democratic candidate. This sad reality is the face of a two-party system in America. A conscience vote like the one you wish to cast is more apropos to a European or Indian parliamentary style election. In that election, you will vote for the party closest to your views (not cadidates). The party with the majority of MPs will form the government and select their PM. If not, they will form a governing coalition that aligns close to a majority ruling party.What's the point of voting if you're not expressing your actual views? Is it selfish because I'm not voting in favor of your preferences? It's not my job as a citizen or a voter to represent your views.
What's also odd is this argument is paired with the argument that it's actually in my best interests to vote for the Democrat candidate 'no matter what' because it'll best advance my interests. You appeal to my self interest but repudiate it when it doesn't align with yours. Who's selfish here? I think it's selfish to tell someone they need to vote for your candidate even though that candidate is woefully inadequate in advancing my interests - all of my interests, moral, financial, and civic. I'm not 'taking one for the team' because I'm not on your team anymore. Your team sucks.
No. Bernie is not my great white (red?) hope. And I'm not voting for my opposition. Jill Stein is more aligned to my views than Hillary.They're referencing Erasure, something to that effect about the SC was said in the OT poll thread.
I'm honestly not trying to malign you, I consider not voting quite different from voting for your opposition out of spite (although I might disagree about differences in strategic efficacy between the two given our first past the post system, the intentions are quite different). I also don't think you're the type of person who sees a Bernie victory as a magic threshold for change (although I haven't been following this thread or your posts very closely as of late).
No. Bernie is not my great white (red?) hope. And I'm not voting for my opposition. Jill Stein is more aligned to my views than Hillary.
It takes more than a presidency to turn things around, I just think a presidency is a good start. Even though Bernie's not a real socialist, I'm thrilled to see the label applied to good ideas even if they don't go far enough. Heck, liberal reforms might actually save capitalism until the next crisis, which, as a socialist, isn't necessarily the best thing either, it's just far more likely to make lives easier for the working class.
If I honestly thought that Hillary would do more good than harm, I'd vote for her. I don't think she would. Conservatives are winning because they're voting to win their issues. Liberals are voting to 'not lose as quickly' and that just doesn't work for me. I need more than not losing as quickly. ACA wasn't a win. Gay marriage was, but that wasn't a presidential push - if anything, Obama followed. He was able to remove some road blocks, but he wasn't part of the push. I'm grateful for that, but I don't think his participation was required.
Oh, Bernie's plan is federalist? Wow. That's ummm. Yeah. That's where my vote is going.
Hillary is on his right, but pulling him left
I said wow
I know how the system works. I know that it sucks. I'm not willing to vote against my conscience simply because the system sucks. What's the point of having a conscience if you never listen to it? Without doing that, how do we ever change the system to one that doesn't suck? Any candidate elected in the shitty system is unlikely to advocate for changing it - though there may be rare exceptions. Kshama participates in the system, but I don't doubt for a second that she'd work towards dismantling it and building something better even if it allowed some other candidate to beat her. I don't think power is her primary focus. Similarly, I don't think power is Bernie's primary focus either.You can vote your actual views and conscience (or not vote) but in United States it will funnel into the two party system. A vote for Jill Stein is effectively a lost Hillary vote. Meaning, it favors Republican candidate. Similarly if Rand were to run third party, a vote for Rand is a lost GOP vote, meaning, it favors the Democratic candidate. This sad reality is the face of a two-party system in America. A conscience vote like the one you wish to cast is more apropos to a European or Indian parliamentary style election. In that election, you will vote for the party closest to your views (not cadidates). The party with the majority of MPs will form the government and select their PM. If not, they will form a governing coalition that aligns close to a majority ruling party.
By all means cast your vote for Jill Stein. At least you will have the peace of mind that you voted your conscience.
Chris Matthews thinks his home state Pennsylvania will be a swing state because Reagan Democrats are foaming at the mouth to vote Trump.
MATTHEWS: Let`s talk about how this is important. Chairman Burn,
you`re chairman of the whole political party of Pennsylvania. I want you
to look at this number here right now about how close Pennsylvania is. I
actually think it`s closer than this.
Quinnipiac has it as 46-40 for Obama. I think that`s getting very
close to the margin of error. And my sense is there`s some people in there
that aren`t being square right now. I think it`s a tough-as-hell election.
[...]
Let me ask you about how close Pennsylvania -- could they grab
Pennsylvania, like this guy just said, Turzai? That was the main port (ph)
of his statement. With this new voter ID card, a big state like
Pennsylvania with 20 electoral votes can be snagged, poached, if you will,
by the Republicans.
Has Hillary really not proposed a plan for UHC? That's a pretty big deal to me.
Has Hillary really not proposed a plan for UHC? That's a pretty big deal to me.
I don't believe this, and it's a cynical, pessimistic, prevent-defense tactic.I hate to say it, but there's not going to any more movement on healthcare for at least 20 years. At this point we're stuck with the ACA and trying to protect it, the best we can hope for is a public option.
That's called PacMan-ingShe's gone so far right, she's gone around the corner.
Definitely MSNBC for my main coverage.. but I'll be flipping back and forth to CNN for Carville/Brazille goodness.The NBC election theme is still the GOAT of all time. What coverage is everyone going to watch for these primaries? I dont like CNN. Fox is garbage. MSNBC I am biased for.
On second thought Fox News would be good to watch the Karl Rove like meltdowns to Trump winning.
Definitely MSNBC for my main coverage.. but I'll be flipping back and forth to CNN for Carville/Brazille goodness.
This sounds suspiciously like fighting game speak. What tiers?Definitely MSNBC for my main coverage.. but I'll be flipping back and forth to CNN for Carville/Brazille goodness.
Crap. I just googled - looks like now he's on Fox News.CNN's got Carville back? I love me some Ragin' Cajun!
Im drawing a blank there.. the last fighting game I've played was Brawl. 😋This sounds suspiciously like fighting game speak. What tiers?
Definitely MSNBC for my main coverage.. but I'll be flipping back and forth to CNN for Carville/Brazille goodness.
me tooCrap. I just googled - looks like now he's on Fox News.
So I guess I'll see him on General Election night.
Im drawing a blank there.. the last fighting game I've played was Brawl. 😋
Crap. I just googled - looks like now he's on Fox News.
So I guess I'll see him on General Election night.
Sanders is completely wrong on how politics works. That's my major reason for not supporting him.
He's completely naive for being in politics for decades.
where in the world did you get your avatar lol.
Sanders is completely wrong on how politics works. That's my major reason for not supporting him.
He's completely naive for being in politics for decades.
ted cruz's fundraising lol
Larry Sabato ‏@LarrySabato 7m7 minutes ago
It is naive to the Nth degree to believe any new POTUS will reverse the multi-decade trend of intense party polarization. .
Kyle Kondik ‏@kkondik 44m44 minutes ago
Always worth remembering - it's likely that if a Democrat is elected in 2016 that Dem will be first Dem ever to never control the House
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He is not wrong, politics can work the way he would like to. This may the end of Sanders, but of his brand of polittics. Maybe one day the US will be ready for its very own Podemos.
He is not wrong, politics can work the way he would like to. This may the end of Sanders, but of his brand of polittics. Maybe one day the US will be ready for its very own Podemos.
So Bernie's really going to pin his hope on "Yes you're going to pay more taxes, but it will save you in the long run."
Ya, good luck with that.
I mean yeah, it doesn't do him any favors but it shows he actually has a formulated plan.
Hildawg doesn't have any outlined plans...
The RNC is sending reporters multiple rapid response emails defending Bernie Sanders from Clinton's attacks. Very unusual.
I mean yeah, it doesn't do him any favors but it shows he actually has a formulated plan.
Hildawg doesn't have any outlined plans...
Someone feeling the Bern.
She has plans for health care. She just doesn't believe in getting rid of the ACA and fighting the whole thing over. Her plans are incremental. They are there, though.