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PoliGAF 2015-2016 |OT3| If someone named PhoenixDark leaves your party, call the cops

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U

User 406

Banned
NYCmetsfan said:
Anybody who went to school more than 20 years ago was taught that.

And let's not pretend all Nazis were tarred and feathered.

It was a bad answer.
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I went to school more than 20 years ago, and the entirety of what we were taught in this area was that there was the Civil War, Lincoln freed the slaves, then Martin Luther King Jr. ended racism. This from well funded private schools.

Maybe if you were a history major in college you'd get more perspective, but man the whitewashing in primary education is just crazy.

And yeah, our biggest mistake was taking the boot off the Confederacy's neck after the war was won. The Compromise of 1877 was a disgrace.
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Sea Manky said:
I went to school more than 20 years ago, and the entirety of what we were taught in this area was that there was the Civil War, Lincoln freed the slaves, then Martin Luther King Jr. ended racism. This from well funded private schools.

Maybe if you were a history major in college you'd get more perspective, but man the whitewashing in primary education is just crazy.

And yeah, our biggest mistake was taking the boot off the Confederacy's neck after the war was won. The Compromise of 1877 was a disgrace.
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The ending of WWI leading to WWII would end up proving that taking the boot off might have been the only thing that saved the country from another war. There's a reason the Marshall Plan is held in as high esteem as it is.
 
Metaphoreus

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
disastermouse said:
LOL, no. Not ever and for good reason. Does anyone in their right mind reasonably believe that Hillary did anything unethical or irresponsible here?
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Does anybody in their right mind reasonably believe she didn't? The only open question at this point is whether what she did was criminal.

disastermouse said:
I know...I just can't believe that they don't realize that they are, at best, whining about technicalities. At best!
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The people whining about technicalities are the ones attempting to leverage a defense against the charge of criminality (did she know the materials were classified?) into a defense against every charge of malfeasance. I would very much like to see you try to make the case that what she did was responsible, for instance.
 
U

ugaboga232

Member
disastermouse said:
I know...I just can't believe that they don't realize that they are, at best, whining about technicalities. At best!
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You would be amazed at the stupidity humanity is capable of. Our brains were never meant to be critical or debate ideas or have rational discussions like this and the fact we even have system of this complexity is a large miracle.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Cybit said:
The ending of WWI leading to WWII would end up proving that taking the boot off might have been the only thing that saved the country from another war. There's a reason the Marshall Plan is held in as high esteem as it is.
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The south did go to war against black people for fucking forever afterward...
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
The south did go to war against black people for fucking forever afterward...
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No.

That is not what a war is. That is oppression. That is injustice. That is resentment and hatred and fear and an unwillingness to admit being on the wrong side of history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_wars_and_conflicts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_War_of_Independence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_of_Scottish_Independence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Civil_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Africa

Those.

Those are wars. Those are civil wars. The scale is on a completely different scale.

The fact that Americans, AMERICANS, of all people, can have lived through the Civil War, watched the aftermath of WWI lead to a near apocalyptic war 30 years later, watch civil wars in Asia claim the lives of millions, see 1.2 billion people staring at each other across a border with nuclear weapons...watch Africa and the Middle East currently tear itself apart, and then decide that, naw, we should have done what all those other people did and not done what we did? We should have gone for the full boot? Even after watching what happened when we didn't with Germany and Japan after WWII?

That's a failure of history.

Plus, we already know what happens when America actually declares war on a minority. Remember - the Great Sioux War happened 10+ years after the US Civil War.
 
T

Teggy

Member
Tom Delay claims he has friends in the FBI that are ready to indict Hillary and if the Justice Dept doesn't do so they'll leak what they have. This is from a Newsmax interview, so not even Fox News is touching it, but I wonder if he's just lying or what.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
disastermouse said:
LOL, no. Not ever and for good reason. Does anyone in their right mind reasonably believe that Hillary did anything unethical or irresponsible here?
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Mmhhm.

Not me, really, but yes, there are people who post here who believe that she did something unethical and irresponsible and illegal. I've kind of come around to not caring ever since every smoking gun has turned out to be something innocuous.

Oh, never mind, missed Meta's post. Him.
 
Metaphoreus

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
ivysaur12 said:
Mmhhm.

Not me, really, but yes, there are people who post here who believe that she did something unethical and irresponsible and illegal. I've kind of come around to not caring ever since every smoking gun has turned out to be something innocuous.

Oh, never mind, missed Meta's post. Him.
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That's right. ivysaur12 just said I'm in my right mind.

Suck it, haters.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
Cybit said:
The fact that Americans, AMERICANS, of all people, can have lived through the Civil War, watched the aftermath of WWI lead to a near apocalyptic war 30 years later, watch civil wars in Asia claim the lives of millions, see 1.2 billion people staring at each other across a border with nuclear weapons...watch Africa and the Middle East currently tear itself apart, and then decide that, naw, we should have done what all those other people did and not done what we did? We should have gone for the full boot? Even after watching what happened when we didn't with Germany and Japan after WWII?

That's a failure of history.
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I think comparing the compromise of 1877 to the US occupation of Japan and Germany is a failure of history.
The US pretty much dictated the constitutions of Japan and Germany, both were signed while the countries were still under military occupation and both were part of a big and mostly successful effort to make sure that the type of regimes that were just toppled and their policies will be very hard to re-enact.
The compromise of 1877 is the US government giving up on trying to do the same with the south.

I'm not saying the north should've crushed the south economically, those things a rarely get you good results, but it should have followed up, forcefully if necessary, on ensuring that the basic civil rights of black American in the south are protected, it failed to do so and in doing so it failed millions of its citizens.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
N

neurosisxeno

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Putin outsmarting Obama at every turn!
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Isn't the same thing happening in Venezuela? It's also going to get worse because I believe part of the sanctions that are being lifted from Iran allows them to start exporting Oil. I love how Republicans were shitting on Obama for not getting aggressive with Putin, when he clearly knew sanctioning them would probably ruin their Economy.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
neurosisxeno said:
Isn't the same thing happening in Venezuela? It's also going to get worse because I believe part of the sanctions that are being lifted from Iran allows them to start exporting Oil.
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Sure is.

Saudi Arabia is getting close to dangerous territory economically also.

On one hand, I fucking hate those three countries and I hope their leaders suffer immensely. On the other hand, it may not be good to have one of those countries collapse to the point of revolution.
 
D

disastermouse

Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Russia is going through economic collapse and it might be getting worse:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres...414.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=tw
http://www.euronews.com/2016/01/25/...in-2015-inflation-up-13-percent-retail-sales/

Putin outsmarting Obama at every turn!

Does Putin have a plan for Russia's economy? I honestly don't know. Not sure oil will ever be that expensive again since renewables will be pretty cheap in like 10-20 years.
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Russia gave up planning around 1989.

Budump-tizz! Tip your waitresses, I'll be here all week.
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Chichikov said:
I think comparing the compromise of 1877 to the US occupation of Japan and Germany is a failure of history.
The US pretty much dictated the constitutions of Japan and Germany, both were signed while the countries were still under military occupation and both were part of a big and mostly successful effort to make sure that the type of regimes that were just toppled and their policies will be very hard to re-enact.
The compromise of 1877 is the US government giving up on trying to do the same with the south.

I'm not saying the north should've crushed the south economically, those things a rarely get you good results, but it should have followed up, forcefully if necessary, on ensuring that the basic civil rights of black American in the south are protected, it failed to do so and in doing so it failed millions of its citizens.
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I guess when I see someone say "the boot"; I'm thinking crushing the South economically. Hence my comment about Versailles - that was a situation where we also had complete military control - but because of all of the various groups trying to get their retribution and own aims into the treaty, it ended up becoming ineffective and starting WWII.

As for Reconstruction - the political will of the Republicans / Northern voters just completely died out. I don't really think there was much of a choice for Grant. The country foolishly believed that now that it was all over, they didn't have to worry about it any more.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Cybit said:
I guess when I see someone say "the boot"; I'm thinking crushing the South economically. Hence my comment about Versailles - that was a situation where we also had complete military control - but because of all of the various groups trying to get their retribution and own aims into the treaty, it ended up becoming ineffective and starting WWII.

As for Reconstruction - the political will of the Republicans / Northern voters just completely died out. I don't really think there was much of a choice for Grant. The country foolishly believed that now that it was all over, they didn't have to worry about it any more.
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The political will nor means of enforcing a drastic Reconstruction never really existed. The Union Army dwindled back to peacetime levels within a few years of Appomattox. What remained were usually in urban areas, far from the countryside where most of the terror took place. How do you push through a social revolution with forces as limited as that? More military force was needed, but the political will was not there. For most people in the North, racial equality was never an end in itself. For Democrats, of course (roughly 45% of Northerners) it was never an end at all. As for Republicans, their main concern was to stop the Southern states being governed by elements disloyal to the Union, who might raise another rebellion. However, it soon became evident that this wasn't a serious problem - that most ex-rebels were willing to accept the failure of secession, as long as they were left alone to run their states as they wished, especially where race relations was concerned. Once this was recognized, black rights became at best an irrelevance, at worst an obstacle to sectional reconciliation, and it didn't take too long for them to be abandoned. The Radical Republicans weren't going to exist forever, and the nation as a whole, despite disagreements on slavery, were pretty united in the idea that blacks were inferior. A longer military occupation was just going to make Southerners angrier. Eventually the North would have to withdraw and things would boil over. The tragic truth is that Reconstruction, as a top-down process, was probably doomed to failure.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
So I was watching Colbert and he said Ted Cruz looks like a melted G.I. Joe toy and now it is forever tattooed onto my brain because it is so fucking true.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Watch Chris Christie's campaign end in flames:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qSMDgieA3o&feature=youtu.be
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Am I missing something here? I thought Christie's answer to the question was very good and would make me more favorable to him if I agreed with his/the party's policies.

I mean if you only focus on the mop line completely devoid of context, then yeah I guess...but that's just as egregious as "you didn't build that" line.

What did Christie do wrong here? At no point was he mean/upset, he explained very thoroughly everything he did, and explained why that question was both factually incorrect and even if it wasn't, a stupid question (without using that word).

Let us not become what we mock the GOP for being, man!
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Black Mamba said:
Am I missing something here? I thought Christie's answer to the question was very good and would make me more favorable to him if I agreed with his/the party's policies.

I mean if you only focus on the mop line completely devoid of context, then yeah I guess...but that's just as egregious as "you didn't build that" line.

What did Christie do wrong here? At no point was he mean/upset, he explained very thoroughly everything he did, and explained why that question was both factually incorrect and even if it wasn't, a stupid question (without using that word).

Let us not become what we mock the GOP for being, man!
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He lied, there's flood damage outside of Cape May county. And it's part of a larger story that been going on this week about how Christie has handled the storm. He also made other dismissive comments about the flooding that's taken place in NJ that pissed a ton of people off. The local papers have been tearing him apart. Unsurprisingly people don't like it when their governor leaves the state during a crisis and downplays and dismisses the damage that's been done to their homes to justify why he's free to leave to pursue his personal ambitions, especially when he did the exact opposite with Sandy when it was politically expedient for him to play up his heroism.
 
TheLaughingStock

TheLaughingStock

Member
campfireweekend said:
You do understand that monetary policy has a lag, correct? You think that the economists at the Fed decided to raise rates for no reason?What is your theory on why they did it? It doesn't benefit wall street.

What number is full employment to you, because by most estimates we are there, and inflation is slightly trending toward 2%.

I don't understand. Are you suggesting that lowering rates does not help people at all? Then why does raising rates hurt them? Why are you railing against a 50bps increase if the work they did during the recession did nothing? By most estimates, QE had a quantitative impact on mortgage rates, which directly impacts a lot of people.

Why did they do these things if people on Wall Street constantly railed against them for doing them?

This article from the NYT provides plenty of graphs that display exactly the impact QE had on people.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/3...arts.html?ref=economy&abt=0002&abg=1&referer=

Of course we should have had more counter cyclical fiscal policy during the recession, but counter cyclical monetary policy doesn't only help the rich, and it's quite odd that you'd suggest that, and even go so far to say that permanent damage followed what they did.
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Lowering and raising the funds rate affects multiple stakeholders. Institutions and individuals in interest rate sensitive sectors benefit from a rate hike as one example by receiving interest income. I didn't say anything about countercyclical monetary policy or rail. Full employment is employment that corresponds with maximum sustainable output and is assumed above 0%.

Wells Fargo's team provided their theory on the collective opinion to hike rates in the bitly link I provided and also created a few similar graphs to your NYT link. To clarify, I think policy preference and gov't assistance explains how people have fared coming out of the recession. QE is ineffective and SVAR analysis along with other a few other methodologies supporting its effects have been reviewed. (See Section 4.2)

https://research.stlouisfed.org/wp/2015/2015-015.pdf

It has nothing to do with lag. The fundamental premise is likely false and impact similarly dubious.

It's not odd to say rich folks have experienced a disproportionate share of gains. Additionally, I think it's beyond a reasonable doubt that economies around the world have been damaged permanently. Trillions in lost output and ruined lives cannot be changed...the damage can only be mitigated. Partial blame lies with preference for monetary policy as the main tool of governments and reliance on QE despite its lack of causational effect on variables like unemployment, inflation, and growth. Or alternatively, a sustained increase in one of the four variables within Y=C+I+G+NX which can only come financed by bank credit or gov't deficits.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Basileus777 said:
He lied, there's flood damage outside of Cape May county. And it's part of a larger story that been going on this week about how Christie has handled the storm. He also made other dismissive comments about the flooding that's taken place in NJ that pissed a ton of people off. The local papers have been tearing him apart. Unsurprisingly people don't like it when their governor leaves the state during a crisis and downplays and dismisses the damage that's been done to their homes to justify why he's free to leave to pursue his personal ambitions, especially when he did the exact opposite with Sandy when it was politically expedient for him to play up his heroism.
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It's gotta be even more frustrating when those ambitions at this point seem pointless since the chances are so slim.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
New quinnipiac IA poll:

Trump 31%
Cruz 29%
Young Marco whatever

"Likely voters"

Just dropped on morning joe yo
 
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