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[Abinash117]

I wouldn't write this off so quickly. He wouldn't need to steal many to tip the scales in his favor. For example, if 6% of college educated whites switched their vote last election, Romney would have won. TPP will drastically lower the quality of life for many people within a short timeframe (see NAFTA). If he can snake oil people into saying he'd stop it, which wouldn't be out of the questions because Bill Clinton was the one who signed the last massive trade agreement into law, people may swallow the bigotry in hopes of stopping more corporatism.



He was also massively unfavored among Republicans when he started his campaign, those numbers have completely flipped.

That assumes if those college educated are single issue voters or prioritize that over other things, and that those people even know what TPP even is or care about. I don't have any evidence that people know what that is , care about it, or are against in large numbers it.

The liberal parts of the internet is an echo chamber. I do not think that anyone real cares that much about trade deals or know much about them. The people that do are some liberals ( that don't vote or fall in line anyway ) and conservatives who are protectionist and/or don't trust the democratic president. Anyone else is fringe or close to it.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I do have to think that between now and 2024, a young candidate as far left or more left than Bernie Sanders economically will be voted into the House and will end up being a serious contender for 2024 in the primary. There's too much evidence that Dems under 30 like Socialism for someone not to try to make Socialism their campaign backbone in the future.

Pretty much. The Dem candidate in 2032 will be a socialist.

 

[B-Dubs]

Posted the Iowa thread.

Didn't include the video since there was too much going on, going to save it for Super Tuesday and hope I can cut it down a bit when people drop out.

 

[Jack Remington]

Anyone know why rpolitics hates Hillary so much?

Some of the vitriol over there seriously reads like a Free Republic thread about Hillary. Additionally, they really seem to think the emails are a huge deal, and anything arguing that the emails really aren't that important gets downvoted extensively.

 

[Armaros]

Anyone know why rpolitics hates Hillary so much?

Some of the vitriol over there seriously reads like a Free Republic thread about Hillary. Additionally, they really seem to think the emails are a huge deal, and anything arguing that the emails really aren't that important gets downvoted extensively.

Because it's the second SandersForPresident sub, the cross over is pretty easy to see and the mods do nothing to stem the tide.

 

[Yoda]

That assumes if those college educated are single issue voters or prioritize that over other things, and that those people even know what TPP even is or care about. I don't have any evidence that people know what that is , care about it, or are against in large numbers it.

The liberal parts of the internet is an echo chamber. I do not think that anyone real cares that much about trade deals or know much about them. The people that do are some liberals ( that don't vote or fall in line anyway ) and conservatives who are protectionist and/or don't trust the democratic president. Anyone else is fringe or close to it.

People who lost their jobs and/or watched their community become impoverished will know what it is. In presidential elections large numbers aren't everything, if the votes are in the "right places", think rural PA (a democratic state) or Ohio (rust belt), said message would be very powerful in these areas and could swing the electoral map which is insanely friendly to democrats toward the republicans.

It also is going to hurt HRC when she does her inevitable reversal on TPP after flip flopping and claiming she wasn't OK with it.

 

[Suikoguy]

If Sanders is making a last minute move into near Republican talking points territory, he must be more worried than I thought:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ders_clinton_email_scandal_very_serious_.html

Edit: Then again, has anyone actually asked him about it before?

Nevermind, that's basically been his 'line' so to speak since that debate where he famously said he was tired of them.

 

[ivysaur12]

Yeah.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/30/business/donald-trump-unions.html

Romney got also 40% of the union household vote, so it's not like it's a monolith group to begin with.

 

[East Lake]

Sure but I think it's possible Trump could pull more with his opinions on trade which could drag in people that worry about jobs shipped overseas.

 

[Third Strike]

Anyone know why rpolitics hates Hillary so much?

Some of the vitriol over there seriously reads like a Free Republic thread about Hillary. Additionally, they really seem to think the emails are a huge deal, and anything arguing that the emails really aren't that important gets downvoted extensively.

Checkout the r/Political Discussion sub. Less circle-jerking, less of an echo chamber, and actual conservatives, moderates, libertarians, and liberals participate in political discourse. Avoid the r/Politics sub like the plague.

 

[docbon]

If Sanders is making a last minute move into near Republican talking points territory, he must be more worried than I thought:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ders_clinton_email_scandal_very_serious_.html

Edit: Then again, has anyone actually asked him about it before?

Nevermind, that's basically been his 'line' so to speak since that debate where he famously said he was tired of them.

Yeah, he gave Tapper the same response that he gave Cuomo on October 13th after the debate. I don't understand why they keep bringing it up. It's weird seeing it get framed differently each time he answers.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Dick Cheney says the e-mails should make people question Clinton's judgement. Surely Cheney won't be quoted by Sanders supports too right?

 

[User 463088]

Someone pointed out a moderately interesting point to me today, which is that because students were back at home for the caucus last year, registration had to be organised far in advance. The Sanders campaign is doing it on campus more or less now. So it's plausible there could be a spike not picked up by the last batch of numbers. Unlikely but there you go.

Whoever pointed this out to you is wrong.

You can register at the caucus, not just switch party affiliation.If the Sanders camp was registering people, regardless of where they were, those numbers would be showing up in the data we have.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Dan Merica ‏@danmericaCNN 18m18 minutes ago
Mike Gronstal, the Iowa Senate Majority Leader, has endorsed Hillary Clinton today at her event in Council Bluffs.

Dan Merica ‏@danmericaCNN 16m16 minutes ago
Gronstal did not endorse in 08. Says he doesn't usually endorse but feels this is "incredibly important" to do now.

.

 

[RustyNails]

Dick Cheney says the e-mails should make people question Clinton's judgement. Surely Cheney won't be quoted by Sanders supports too right?

Cheney is a human garbage that is responsible for millions of dead in Iraq and the entire region being destabilized, the effects of which we still reap today. He should be the last one to talk about judgement.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Ted Cruz is a real piece of shit.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

“I’m crippled, so I can’t go to the caucus,” says Iowa voter unhappy with being shamed in Cruz mailer.

Once Cruz become the leader in Iowa his campaign started backfiring 24 / 7. I think this phony mailer is the worst yet.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...lers-are-more-fraudulent-than-everyone-thinks

 

[User 463088]

Ted Cruz is a real piece of shit.

We all know what the GOP's plan for that man would have been:

Same as it ever was

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Ted Cruz is a real piece of shit.

Its clear that we could create a separate OT just to discuss how horrible Ted Cruz is but really he's not going to be relevant long enough to justify it.

 

[B-Dubs]

Ted Cruz is a real piece of shit.

What an utter piece of shit.

 

[Tamanon]

I like how he pretended that the guy could've afforded healthcare before.

 

[pigeon]

Once Cruz become the leader in Iowa his campaign started backfiring 24 / 7. I think this phony mailer is the worst yet.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...lers-are-more-fraudulent-than-everyone-thinks

It's not just his campaign -- it's kind of amazing, but basically it seems like the GOP establishment would rather have Trump, who they hate and fear abstractly, than Ted Cruz, who they agree with on most things but actually detest personally.

Basically, Ted Cruz's presidential run is a valuable lesson in retail politics and how it scales.

 

[The Technomancer]

Ted Cruz is a real piece of shit.

How is someone this awful possible?

 

[pigeon]

How is someone this awful possible?

It's just what happens when politicians have neither a personal nor an electoral motivation towards good policy. They just aren't exposed at all to the consequences of their actions until town halls like these.

 

[Abinash117]

People who lost their jobs and/or watched their community become impoverished will know what it is. In presidential elections large numbers aren't everything, if the votes are in the "right places", think rural PA (a democratic state) or Ohio (rust belt), said message would be very powerful in these areas and could swing the electoral map which is insanely friendly to democrats toward the republicans.

It also is going to hurt HRC when she does her inevitable reversal on TPP after flip flopping and claiming she wasn't OK with it.

Assuming that it was something to do with trade and that they were educated about.
Rural areas already vote for the GOP mostly anyway, it is the urban areas that carry the win. Again most Americans either support TPP, don't care, or it isn't a priority most likely.
Trade isn't a big issue in elections, it is mostly the domestic economy and terrorism that is usually the big issues generally. I don't think you will find trade up there on the biggest issues at all.

 

[disastermouse]

Seems to me she's saying it's not going to happen as it is being proposed now. She wants something to be done, because something is better than nothing. And nothing is exactly what is going to happen if you focus entirely on single payer in this political climate.

I don't think she's suggesting America will never have single payer. I think her argument is we need to start moving in that direction as opposed to skipping ahead to the finish line.

For the record, I'm not a big fan of Obamacare as it is, but, it's still better than not having it if that makes sense. It's a step. Hopefully step 2 gets us closer to single payer whatever and whenever that will be.

I agree though she shouldn't have used those words never. Especially considering her past record on this issue.

According to Hillary, any 'step 2' is a 'total dismantling of the ACA'. It's so infuriating to see progress equated to an attack. And it's yet another reason I cannot vote for her.

 

[disastermouse]

Doesn't Germany have multi-payer? They do alright.

Healthcare doesn't have to be single-player to be fair and reasonable. The problem is underregulation, out of control costs, and a lack of legitimate competition. ACA addresses the last one and does some solid work on the first. Adding a public option and cost controls would take us most of the way to where we need to be.

I'm pretty sure that the third party payers in Germany are non-profit companies. That would make a huge difference.

To be totally honest, my assessment is that it's because people are not aware of the universal healthcare systems in the world that aren't single-payer. The countries diplomatically closest to America (Canada, UK) have single-payer systemse.

I dunno, maybe get some international friends? My Austrian friend likes his 3rd party, non-profit system. My Swedish friend is proud of their single-payer system. My Canadian friend was floored when he learned that someone can't just get mental health care or counseling in America.

 

[User 463088]

According to Hillary, any 'step 2' is a 'total dismantling of the ACA'. It's so infuriating to see progress equated to an attack. And it's yet another reason I cannot vote for her.

Come on, don't be disingenuous. She wants universal coverage. She thinks we should attain that through the ACA. She does not believe we should start over from scratch like Bernie wants to do.

 

[Y2Kev]

I think everybody needs to learn from Ted Cruz. Surely he has the most to teach. Don't be an asshole. Even when you disagree with people, perhaps even fundamentally, your differences can't be so great that you can make even people who purportedly agree and support the things you want hate you!

 

[danm999]

We all know what the GOP's plan for that man would have been:

Same as it ever was

Christ that audience.

 

[CCS]

Checkout the r/Political Discussion sub. Less circle-jerking, less of an echo chamber, and actual conservatives, moderates, libertarians, and liberals participate in political discourse. Avoid the r/Politics sub like the plague.

Cheers for this, it's a much better place to discuss actual politics rather than "DAE think Hillary is a witch who deserves to burn in hell forever?"

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Possible job losses are one thing, and a fair drawback of the ACA to point out, but how Cruz or any other Republican can compare having to get a different plan or having to change doctors with not having access to health care at all is beyond me. God forbid if fixing the aspects of health care that are broken require some people to make some adjustments. The ACA isn't great, but it's weird how people assume that the ACA has created all these problems out of thin air, rather than flushed out problems already inherent to the health care system that were tucked under the rug before.

 

[CCS]

Incidentally, I've just been reminded of how mind-bogglingly stupid Sanders' plan for the Fed is.

 

[disastermouse]

Come on, don't be disingenuous. She wants universal coverage. She thinks we should attain that through the ACA. She does not believe we should start over from scratch like Bernie wants to do.

"Never, ever."

 

[Makai]

REPLY ALL

Dammit, Hillary!

 

[Plinko]

Ted Cruz is a real piece of shit.

I try my absolute best not to hate people.

This gets me really, REALLY close.

The facts are out there--this anti-regulation BS is what almost completely destroyed our economy a few years back. The GOP insists on just reverting back to where we were before Obama, which was a bad place.

 

[Butts-a-plenty]

According to Hillary, any 'step 2' is a 'total dismantling of the ACA'. It's so infuriating to see progress equated to an attack. And it's yet another reason I cannot vote for her.

The point is that the ACA contains the infrastructure to build a system similar to what a county like Switzerland has. It's easier to expand the system within the institutional framework than to try to change the entire system to make a single payer system that isn't even necessary to create affordable universal care. It's like ripping out a perfectly good foundation to replace the house on top when replacing the foundation is unnecessary.

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

I'm so anxiety us and excited for tomorrow. Do y'all have any special snacks or meals planned for tomorrow? I've been getting Taco Bell after every Republican debate, so I might go with that.

 

[Makai]

I'm so anxiety us and excited for tomorrow. Do y'all have any special snacks or meals planned for tomorrow? I've been getting Taco Bell after every Republican debate, so I might go with that.

Probably not watching this live and will just look at the results afterwards.

 

[kingkitty]

I'm so anxiety us and excited for tomorrow. Do y'all have any special snacks or meals planned for tomorrow? I've been getting Taco Bell after every Republican debate, so I might go with that.

i'm gonna eat some mandu

 

[CCS]

Roughly when do we get results tomorrow?

 

[HylianTom]

I'm so anxiety us and excited for tomorrow. Do y'all have any special snacks or meals planned for tomorrow? I've been getting Taco Bell after every Republican debate, so I might go with that.

- Chinese delivery
- donuts for dessert!

 

[NeoXChaos]

Roughly when do we get results tomorrow?

9-10 PM CST

 

[CCS]

9-10 PM CST

Sweet, looks like I'm doing an all-nighter here then in the Glorious People's Socialist United Kingdom

 

[Tamanon]

I'll just be happy we can stop caring about Iowa, and the GOP field will be cut in half.

 

[NeoXChaos]

I'll just be happy we can stop caring about Iowa, and the GOP field will be cut in half.

until the fall.

 

[disastermouse]

The point is that the ACA contains the infrastructure to build a system similar to what a county like Switzerland has. It's easier to expand the system within the institutional framework than to try to change the entire system to make a single payer system that isn't even necessary to create affordable universal care. It's like ripping out a perfectly good foundation to replace the house on top when replacing the foundation is unnecessary.

As long as for-profit insurance companies exist, the foundation needs to be destroyed. The ACA is built on sand, under the constraints of costs it cannot control as long as it leaves for-profit insurance companies in the picture.

 

[Makai]

YouGov National

Trump 43
Cruz 18
Rubio 14
Kasich 5
Bush 4
Carson 4
Rand 4
Christie 2
Fiorina 2
Huckabee 2
Gilmore 1
Santorum 1

 

[CCS]

As long as for-profit insurance companies exist, the foundation needs to be destroyed. The ACA is built on sand, under the constraints of costs it cannot control as long as it leaves for-profit insurance companies in the picture.

Most countries with universal healthcare also have for-profit insurance companies. It's not either/or.

 

[User 463088]

I was invited to go to a party to watch the results, but I declined. I prefer to watch them alone this year. I mentioned this before, but its the first time I've ever watched the Iowa results without my dad. So, it's kinda important that I be alone to chill and just go with it. I'll still be refreshing and posting on Gaf like an idiot.

I'm going to order my favorite Chinese food and just bask in the warmth that is MSNBC.

In related news, what does one wear on a date with a Berniebro? I figure Birkenstocks are a given....I suppose it doesn't matter I'll just be putting it on and taking it off. Then putting it on again, go home and take it off again.