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PoliGAF 2015-2016 |OT3| If someone named PhoenixDark leaves your party, call the cops
- Thread starter Diablos
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Roland_Gunner
Member
Well in the 90's a Democratic President signed legislation that lead to millions of citizens, including a disproportionate number of minorities, spending years and even decades in federal prison for non-violent crimes. These laws were also pushed through the Senate by the current, highly popular, Democratic VP. That seems slightly worse than DWS as the party chair, buts thats just me.
This is actually what my brother believes. I keep trying to tell him people representing Bernie burned this bridge. Bernie, unfortunately, sided himself with the usual folks of the political snake system.
Then again, he believes my mother watching sports makes the team he wants to win end up losing. He ain't arguing for reason sometimes.
If she was a game platform, would be she be the Vita? It represents great potential, but it's run by someone with incredibly backwards ideas, and an almost disinterest in hype and prosperity for what it's supposed to represent.
Someone so uncharismatic and bad at her job is representing a side that has to fight with people impassioned that because snow exists, the biosphere isn't changing? That's dangerous.
User 463088
Banned
Virtual Boy had one good game. Who would be that game? Warren?
Elizabeth "Wario Land VB" Warren.
She actively uses her power in Florida politics to help keep her Republican friends in office. Ever wondered why Ileana Ros-Lehtinen gets token opposition every year even though she's in a district prime for Democrats to challenge? Because you'll get on Debbie's bad side if you dare think about trying to remove her good friend from office.
But no she's not just corrupt. She's also self-professed liberal who refused to back Obama on reopening negations with Cuba, waffled back and forth on Iran for days, and actively campaigned against medical marijuana in Florida.
I'm not even going to get into the disaster she's been as DNC chair because everyone knows that already.
This woman represents me and I will gladly tell you I have never once voted for her and never will. Even if she challenged for governor or Senate I'd rather abstain and be stuck with Voldemort for another 4 years.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Her job requires a certain level of PR which hurts because she simply doesn't sound like a bright person. Lots of Washington talk, focused entirely on her talking points, etc. In terms of performance I think a lot of political democrat initiatives have been corny or inefficient in terms of advancing the party. She is also pretty corrupt in Florida from what I've heard. Lots of jobs for buddies, be they democrat or republican.
But as I've said before, even if she was great a her job I don't think she'd be effective due to Obama, who has crashed the party's relevance in entire regions of the country. The dismantling of coal jobs has devastated democrats in the south. All in the name of the religion of climate change, which most Americans couldn't care less about.
JesseEwiak
Member
The coal jobs were already gone. I forget the actual numbers, but the number of coal jobs in those states were already hilariously low. This wasn't Detroit that Obama killed. We were always going to finally lose those Southern legislatures. A black guy being elected just accrlaeated things.
Plus, I guess some jobs were lost because we actually have any environmental regulation. Guess we should scrap that too.
BertramCooper
Banned
Cheap natural gas has killed off more coal jobs than Obama has or ever will.
He was just a convenient scapegoat for asswipes like Bob Murray.
He was just a convenient scapegoat for asswipes like Bob Murray.
TheLaughingStock
Member
The Federal Reserve System is elite and monopolistic in the sense that it helped put a stop to widespread insolvency of businesses and banks. Clearing, settling, and processing hundreds of millions of payments worth hundreds of trillions of US dollars annually isn't a small thing either. Maybe governments should stop shifting burdens off the shoulders of the private sector when they lobby for help like the US Congress did in 1913. Apparently, some people don't like to leverage a safe, flexible, and stable banking system that enables you to raise living standards and become a global force.
You said it, and she totally represents all the Democratic candidates, equally:
And, Jeff Weaver, Bernie's campaign manager, has confirmed, in a statement, what I mentioned previously, that the firewall between campaigns data, had gone down before, and they reported it to the DNC:
For anyone who now wants to check out the debate, it's tomorrow at 8pm ET (7pm CT, 5pm PT), on ABC News
User 463088
Banned
The hubris in that Sanders' campaign statement is adorable. Looks like Weaver went full conspiracy theorist too.
And, for the record, I'm still withholding judgement. My entire critique is of how Bernie's campaign has handled this, not what may or may not have happened. It certainly looks, based on the logs that are being reported, that the people who accessed the files were very surgical in their search of them, but that's neither here nor there.
And, for the record, I'm still withholding judgement. My entire critique is of how Bernie's campaign has handled this, not what may or may not have happened. It certainly looks, based on the logs that are being reported, that the people who accessed the files were very surgical in their search of them, but that's neither here nor there.
Yikes, thanks for the full rundown.
User 463088
Banned
He won't. He's not stupid. He would be completely marginalized in the Senate. He'd lose his position within the caucus. He knows a 3rd party run is the end of him having any impact whatsoever.
His grassroots campaign isn't just going to roll over for Hillary's. The fallout is going to be bad no matter what; third party run is worst case.
For fuck's sake, Sanders bluntly stated near the START of his campaign that he would not run third party because it would mean a Republican presidency. Bernie understands the math of a two party system.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bernie-sanders-explains-why-hell-never-run-as-third-party-candidate/
We've been over this before multiple times in this thread and others. He's not going third party.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bernie-sanders-explains-why-hell-never-run-as-third-party-candidate/
We've been over this before multiple times in this thread and others. He's not going third party.
DWS and Bernie's campaign manager were both on MSNBC tonight. I didn't care for either of them.
The interviewer actually asked if Bernie would run as a third party candidate; the campaign manager laughed it off. Seems pretty solid that Bernie isn't ever going to consider this course of action.
The interviewer actually asked if Bernie would run as a third party candidate; the campaign manager laughed it off. Seems pretty solid that Bernie isn't ever going to consider this course of action.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
I would only want Bernie to run independent if Trump did as well. A four way race would be exciting! He won't though and neither will Trump now.
Trump can't run third party, he's going to win the nomination.
Establishment Republican mouthpiece Politico is having a field day with the Bern-ghazi clusterfuck.
Establishment Republican mouthpiece Politico is having a field day with the Bern-ghazi clusterfuck.
I don't know, I think it's possible depending on how the circumstances play out. He has a passionate grassroots campaign. Listening to the presser from Jeff Weaver, if this block on the database goes on for too long unresolved that's really going to handicap them going into Iowa and New Hampshire. They would likely feel very cheated and angsty afterwards. It's certainly possible.
RustyNails
Member
I'm seeing crazy similarities to Obama conspiracy theories from Republicans. Obama is a bumbling fool but also really cunning in his desire to destroy America America by artificially inflating the job numbers and killing US soldiers (or something to that effect).
User 463088
Banned
Please, please, please tell me that Bernie's people weren't stupid enough to turn this into a fund raising thing. Do these people understand perception at all?
If Bernie Sanders can be undone by the incompetency of DWS, then what chance did he have to deal with climate change, ISIS and the millionaires and billionaire Sith Lords.
theprodigy
Member
Trump can be the first candidate to run as a Republican and as an independent at the same time! /s
In that scenario, I fear that leftist Democrats, moderate Democrats, and moderate Republicans would all be individually smaller than the Dixiecrat bloc. :/
Who really has a good enough chance to deal with the bolded in a sincere way? Nobody running clearly can.
I think that's the unfortunately pessimistic fact people overlook: no matter who we get, our issues will stay as issues and will be, at best, entertained with solutions, but never solved. The shit I give Hillary is because some of her solutions very clearly aren't solutions at all when it comes to health care and education. They're band aids for torn arteries.
Look at the fellatio jazz America gave with the recent climate talks. All smog, though China is one coming out as the beacon on this issue. I hope they make this country look like a joke on this front. And that's entertaining the weakly argued position we aren't one already. And for ISIS, which candidate has admitted the war is won by fighting belief, not the behavior that is driven from it? Has any candidate admitted that fact?
RustyNails
Member
Those are not even the worst offenses by DWS. She threatened to play anti-semitic and anti-woman card against Obama when he was thinking of replacing her. I mean, he's the leader of the party. She was willing to take the sitting president down with her.
User 463088
Banned
Well, obviously, I think Hillary is the best bet we have or I wouldn't be supporting her. I don't think that some problems can every truly be 100% solved. We can never stop extremism, but we can make it harder for people to become radicalized. We can never fully stop income inequality, but we can sure as hell make it harder for the rich to keep getting richer. So, when I look at a candidate, I am looking for solutions. I'm not looking for someone to wave a magic wand and make everything go away (or go like it should.) That's never going to happen. And, to be truthful, is one of my issues with some Sander's supporters.
And you disagree with Hillary's education plan. I'm cool with that. We can engage on that. We can debate why I find it a more likely solution than Sander's. And that's great. That's what this is supposed to be about. And, hell, maybe you'll convince me that I'm wrong. Because, I think my candidate can be wrong and, by extension, my understanding of a particular issue.
But when every single issue is nothing but a war between Bernie's immaculate rightness on every thing in the history of the world and everyone else...then I just have to roll my eyes. Some Berniestans are at war with every single person who doesn't worship at his alter. Those are the people that are driving this "Hillary had her own data stolen because she's Satan incarnate" thing.
I mentioned this a month or so ago, in Bernieland there can be no bad days. Because his light and love are always shining forever and ever, amen. At some point, regardless of who you support, you have to admit when your candidate screws up. As a Hillary 2008 supporter, I had to do it. It was a crappy day for me, but I had to put on my big boy pants and realize it.
This entire thing could have been dealt with easily and in a way that didn't make his entire organization look like a babbling band of buffoons. But it wasn't because it wasn't scripted ahead of time for them. That's the shit that gets me all riled up.
Retromelon
Member
this is news to me. Neo's only ever been the most honorable of knights in the queens service. Your shared love of hillary was the only apparent link.
I'm gonna head to a popeye's organization in a few to partake in their delicious chickens and pray for some good carson polls
User 463088
Banned
According toIowa Starting Line's Twitter this is what was searched and done:
(And I don't know how to share Tweets like all you computer wizards here...)
(And I don't know how to share Tweets like all you computer wizards here...)
Let me make it clear Bernie is right on the issues being spoke about, and I agree with most of his approaches. I think his health care solution - the one even Obama agrees with - is better than Hillary's about face against single-payer. Anything less than that will be a disaster, for it's still a have/have not game of social assimilation and ascription. Think, for merely a moment, the type of racket an American has to be beguiled into buying to see health care as insurance packages. For a society of products, perhaps one is numb to the fact their health is being delegated to the same vapidity of consumerism. His education plan is simply better in promise, for Hillary's answer is literally indebted servitude. It's literally bootstraps to get into college. Both of these are failed approaches, for no developed nation on earth aims that low for solutions. Why must we, the supposed number one developed nation (somehow) actively avoid this general perspective people have had for decades? Hillary doesn't even talk about the states Bernie wants as an endgame, and if she did, I'd be down. It seems like her answers are being promised as the solutions we need. Well, we're working in a metastasized body: her patchwork does not deal with the illnesses produced in an absolute sense. It's why I criticize American culture for settling for less, because that's what she promotes on those two very direct fronts. If you accept then as stopgaps, that's fine. If you accept them as answers, I question your depths of reason.
That said, is Bernie a saint? No. I consider him the issues guy, but like all people, they're not on point with everything. His explanation on democratic socialism is bullshit. It's about a we, and it's trying to change America's egocentricity of division, of I vs you to I and you. Bringing nondualism back to mainstream consciousness. Of course there's great parody there, but I'll leave the non-political jazz aside.
One of my biggest issues with him is that his views on poverty and basic income are fucking ass. Basic income, to him, is the last bullet in the chamber to end poverty, if all other programs fail. What's the problems? All programs have failed, and will fail; basic income is the only bullet in the chamber to end poverty, and this isn't even considering the second machine age bugbear that's coming. Even Steven Hawking said the disruption we will see from machines in a capitalist society will be a disaster, so a new course is demanded, or the house of cards will burn. Both he and Hillary say status quo nonsense, that the point of human life is jobs, money, and growth. You do not need to be a Zen monk to see the absurdity and danger of those concepts being held so seriously. This is a problem our generation will be directly inheriting and answering. Why is it that our country is silent in a developed world talking more honestly about basic income being a solution? Even the American banks that ruined the economy say it must be done. Are the politics too toxic for "free" stuff? How about we acknowledge our society is based on double-binds, ultimatums, and assimilation or one suffers, and use that fact to justify we have an unjust system of social evocations? Or is that taboo like Big Boss in the sky, for shitty reasons? Most countries acting on it aren't even doing so for the automation concerns: if we want poverty eliminated in major ways by 2030, basic income is still the only answer on the table capable of doing it. It's an idea proposed by the left and the right. It's a forward thinking approach.
Hillary spoke about UBI too. But like her Neo skills, she found a way to spin that about mothers getting equal pay, because that was the talking point on a Q&A on Facebook she wanted to make. A total political nonsense answer.
As for his faults, if you're assuming today's issue, I agree. I spoke very clearly in the other thread shade was done. Even if Sanders did not personally know or approve, those who represent him did it, and that's just as bad as if he did it himself in the world of politics.
this is news to me. Neo's only ever been the most honorable of knights in the queens service. Your shared love of hillary was the only apparent link.
I'm gonna head to a popeye's organization in a few to partake in their delicious chickens and pray for some good carson polls
Their love of Hillary is all they had in common. One used it and argued against crazies, and one assumes all dissenters are crazies. It should be obvious who is who, and why comparing the two is disingenuous. And I didn't start that, for the record.
I even told Cerium in PM I actually gave him shit for his attitude because I expected better. Of course, I probably did it in the holier than thou attitude more users are giving him shit for, and that's probably why he blocked me. I feel pretty bad if I offended him so. Most people know me for automation, nondualism, and arguing against the self. Is all of that so unbearable?
I'll leave it at that, though. I hold no malice to him. But there's a reason people keep avatar quoting him, and it has less to do with who he favors and more in how he expresses himself.
Poodlestrike
Banned
According toIowa Starting Line's Twitter this is what was searched and done:
(And I don't know how to share Tweets like all you computer wizards here...)
Yeah, screenshots are the only way to share tweets on GAF sadly :/
It's pretty damning but Sanders supporters don't care. My husband actually doesn't care that the Sanders campaign stole Clinton data. This whole thing is actually making him hate Clinton, and he said he wouldn't even vote for Clinton in the general anymore. Even though she's not involved in this at all. So... that's a thing.According toIowa Starting Line's Twitter this is what was searched and done:
(And I don't know how to share Tweets like all you computer wizards here...)
User 463088
Banned
Does Sanders still support leaving it up to the states as one of his most recent proposals? Because, while I support single payer, I will never, ever agree with a system in which each state is responsible for crafting and implementing the program. Again, though, single payer is not happening right now. It's just not going to. We couldn't even get a public option through Congress. I think we can use the ACA to help make progress towards universal single-payer, but I don't think it's within the realm of possibility of a Clinton or Sander's Presidency.
It's not servitude. It's actually a common theme. I was a Bright Futures Scholarship winner. I had to have community service to even qualify for it. 10 hours a week is not servitude any more than working a job for money is servitude. You give 10 hours a week, you get debt free college. If you don't want to do the 10 hours, feel free to take out private loans or whatever other means you have to pay for it. If I could work 10 hours a week and be debt free, I'd have jumped at the chance. As it is, I'm still not done with college, but managed to get a lot of debt. I also feel Hillary's plan is far more practical than Bernie's.
Feel free to question anything you like. However, our country was designed to not allow for radical sweeping changes due to the current political winds. Change in this country is, of necessity, slow and incremental. You want to get rid of everything and start over with how you think it should be. That's never, ever going to happen. Obama promised a lot of things too, thinking that everything would be different. It won't be. Governing is hard. It's not easy solutions and unwavering conviction in the sea of ultimate rightness.
And, again, that's fine and I respect your opinion. I disagree with a few points you've made, but I agree with a few of them as well. My main issue with Bernie the Candidate is his inability to understand basic intersectionality. As a white, gay man, my issues in life are not tied to income inequality (although I'm unemployed af right now, but had my 2nd interview today so who knows). This idea that every single thing in the known universe is a result of millionaire and billionaires is just laughable. It's not a winning strategy in this country. It's not a winning position. It's factually wrong.
But, yes, this is my main criticism of his campaign. Not his issues. Not his personality. I agree with him and Hillary on just about everything. (I was like 97% Hillary, 95% Sanders). I have issue with how he is allowing his campaign to be run. Because I see how he does inspire some people, and he's, flopping around like a chicken with its head cut off. These are rookie mistakes his campaign is making. I mean, I know Devine is used to losing. Maybe he just enjoys it at this point.
User 463088
Banned
I also want Fallon to shut up for the same reasons I want Bernie's campaign to sit down and be quiet.
Retromelon
Member
I misunderstood then. Cerium's posts have occasionally struck me for their strident and self assured tone, so i see it. Just an observation, not a battlecry.Their love of Hillary is all they had in common. One used it and argued against crazies, and one assumes all dissenters are crazies. It should be obvious who is who, and why comparing the two is disingenuous. And I didn't start that, for the record.
I even told Cerium in PM I actually gave him shit for his attitude because I expected better. Of course, I probably did it in the holier than thou attitude more users are giving him shit for, and that's probably why he blocked me. I feel pretty bad if I offended him so. Most people know me for automation, nondualism, and arguing against the self. Is all of that so unbearable?
I'll leave it at that, though. I hold no malice to him. But there's a reason people keep avatar quoting him, and it has less to do with who he favors and more in how he expresses himself.
The chicken was good
RustyNails
Member
If indeed DNC screwed Bernie over by not giving them access to the files which they were entitled to, then for the sake of the party DWS must step down. Otherwise, DNC being dragged to court during election year is the biggest dream republicans can hope for and just might lead us to Trump being sworn in on Jan 17th.
DWS won't step down. She will destroy the party, the candidates and the election. So hoping cooler heads at Bernie HQ prevails.
DWS won't step down. She will destroy the party, the candidates and the election. So hoping cooler heads at Bernie HQ prevails.
AnotherNils
Member
Even if DWS is in the right, it's in the parties best interest not to make this the spectacle its becoming; Just further proof she sucks
Please stop quoting him.
Just to set the record straight he never sent me any PMs lmao what the fuck. He just wouldn't stop following me from thread to thread so I blocked his ass.
AnotherNils
Member
This is where Jon Stewart would insert two minutes of GOP slobbering over Putin compared to Obama.
I'm not sure if it's state or federal, but if you leave it to states it still creates the have/have not problem of offering health care as an innate feature set of society. In that sense, it must be all encompassing. That said, I agree we aren't getting it right now, but we should make it clear what to aim for by making sure it stays in the consciousness and talking points moving forward. I have not seen Hillary do this. Her answer has been simply ACA, forget the notion of everything else. That is unacceptable. I call her out often for this very reason.
I still find it nonsense. In a world where many countries pay their students to go to college across the developed world, why must one offer their time? You see, this gets into the issue of desires and necessities. Having someone give their time to get something society says they need is not even a choice: that's an ultimatum. You must do X, it's only acceptable if you wish to do X, but you are a have not by not accepting the assimilation. That's a double-bind, and I, personally, stand against almost all notions of double-binding people. Guide people through sincerity, not shackles. Her system still has shackles, as far as I can judge it. I am of the opinion a government should realize if its people are empowered, its society is empowered. Why must America start every action under the guise it must be done from the individual alone, almost with their actions promising to put them in a negative out of the gate? Even community service should be seen as an act of unity, not some bullshit to get done to get a goody. We need to stop using the ends to justify the means. The natural world does not roll this way: only our twisted thought does.
I do not say her proposal is less than what we have, but it's similar to the ACA; an improvement of the past, but of its own measures, simply mediocre and irrelevant to much of the developed world, so it must be improved upon. Accept it as a stopgap, not the closure to the problem. Again, if you do that, right on. Let us not forget what we should be aiming for. Life is a work-in-progress, and if we're going to bullshit ourselves that progress must be done, let's make it reasonable and compatible in genuine ways.
I never said start over, but it must be cultivated. The only way to grow a new direction is to accept the current one as insoluble. We do not do this. Instead, we think this one works and needs fixes. A sunken ship has no holes amiss with water, and that is a metaphor to describe much of our social arrangement.
The only way to cultivate it is for people to accept this doesn't work, and new models and approaches being raised. Again, consider for a moment in the mainstream political system, we still believe in indefinite growth on a physically finite planet. This is already being seen as nonsense to both our symbols and the real world, yet we don't accept this. "But more jobs! That's it!" Is the answer, failing to realize many of our problems can actually result from this line of thought, not the lack of its implementation. People can't even wrap their head around the potential risk of a technologically unemployable populous, for that goes against the whole shitbrained notion of full employment being possible, humanistic, and sustainable in many fronts.
Of course it's not all related to rich people. I would argue most of it all starts with ego, by defining oneself as a separated, isolated, standalone agent. Again, saving the nondualism jazz from this topic, this line of thought is factually unaccountable to reality, yet the confusion that this is so produces much conflict. We think in bootstraps, free will, us vs them jargon that only creates line of thought that feed this incorrect perception. We never get back to ground zero, to question our very notion of things. So long as we are a society in its very root where you and I are agents in combat, for jobs, for money, we will never be at peace or happy. We will be simply using sickle hammers to climb over one another in an illusion of superiority and well being in a decayed society.
Why are we of a society that defines us as separate agents fighting for the right to exist in the field of being when we already co-exist as is, innately? We value the former and ignore the latter, and almost all human problems of division begin. Let us create a social framework that blankets over the world as simply as it can and less of this stamping and scribbling bullshit.
I don't have much to say to this, other than I agree. I feel much of his campaign just today feels like a hydra-body.
I know he can't read this, but let me clear this up. I don't like liars. Does NeoGAF ban users for posting their own PMs? I can just post the names of the messages, but he and I in fact spoke. I will not post them as I'm assuming that breaks a rule, but even if a mod can vet into users PMs, I can be backed up in what I claim.
Furthermore, he blocked me when he was still a junior after I told him his smug attitude risks him becoming a caricature for attacking every Bernie fan, so he took it to PM to throw shade at me. In his words, and I quote: "You are already a known joke in PoliGAF." This was said, mind you, when he wasn't even posting here for two weeks, so he gave many users an impression very early on for being egoistic and an instigator. I happened to be the one calling him on it the most, so he decided to say something in private about it.
He can have an ego, but don't be a bullshit liar. Don't make up bullshit. You're looking like Bernie's campaign.
I am done on this for the time being. I wanted to be done before, but I wish to correct the air on his bullshit. Apologies if I am continuing drama with this post, but this is it from me in public. No need to feed even more pseudo-political diddle dicks.
There's nothing low road about calling out his campaign for lying, playing the victim and using this event for fundraising.
It's really made me reconsider my evaluation of Bernie as a person. I kind of actually fell for the honest, principled shtick, and allowed myself to forget that he's been a lifelong career politician. On the other hand I do appreciate that he is capable of being ruthlessly cynical in a way that I didn't think he could be.
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