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[Joe Shlabotnik]

Not even 100k peeps voted for nader.

Significant? o_ô

To be fair, one would have a hard time arguing that the system isn't corrupt. The conclusion is the problem.

Huh? Nader got almost 3 million votes:

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/2000/popular_vote.html

And WTF on that Trump story, my whole "holy shit he's actually serious and could be the nominee" belief was predicated on those stories he was really well organized in the early states, because I previously thought he could not possibly be assed to do that sort of organizational groundwork, especially for a caucus, so who gives a fuck about the polls.

 

[Coriolanus]

Huh? Nader got almost 3 million votes:

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/2000/popular_vote.html

Well, that's what i get for using wikipedia as a source and failing to notice that they were mentioning only his FL votes

 

[Republic of Ezo]

So much for having Santorum's Iowa guy. Fucking hell, my bet! Maybe I should just cash out...

The caucus states in general are going to be a millstone for Trump since his campaign is not as well organized as Cruz's. It'll be interesting though if Cruz wins Iowa and Trump wins NH and it becomes a Trump vs. Cruz two man show. Who would the establishment support?

 

[Poodlestrike]

#Notallsandersfans, but I do think there's a significant portion that are just anti-establishment, populists. Same group that has jumped from Nader, to Ron Paul, to Sanders, and some to Trump. Again, not all of Sander's supporters, nor even the majority, but this segment certainly exists and is very vocal on a couple of popular websites and forums.

It's basically the kind of people who believe, deep down, that all parties really are the same (even if they don't come out and say it because they'd be rightly ridiculed). So, since all of them have the same policy positions, why not vote for the guy whose rhetoric you most enjoy?

 

[Republic of Ezo]

It's basically the kind of people who believe, deep down, that all parties really are the same (even if they don't come out and say it because they'd be rightly ridiculed). So, since all of them have the same policy positions, why not vote for the guy whose rhetoric you most enjoy?

My only hope is that these Bernie supporters are "nontraditional" voters in the sense that they would not even vote democrat if not for Bernie in the first place. If they leave the party, so be it. It's not ideal but it's not fatal.

 

[Manmademan]

My only hope is that these Bernie supporters are "nontraditional" voters in the sense that they would not even vote democrat if not for Bernie in the first place. If they leave the party, so be it. It's not ideal but it's not fatal.

they're overwhelmingly white male college students in their twenties. they have a voting participation rate in the single digits. the vast majority complain online but never vote.

 

[Tarkus]

Who has the debate thread?

The debate is listed as 3 hours. Good grief.

 

[B-Dubs]

Who has the debate thread?

The debate is listed as 3 hours. Good grief.

It's already up, A Human did this one.

 

[Iolo]

The caucus states in general are going to be a millstone for Trump since his campaign is not as well organized as Cruz's. It'll be interesting though if Cruz wins Iowa and Trump wins NH and it becomes a Trump vs. Cruz two man show. Who would the establishment support?

If Rubio pulls off second in Iowa, after all the "not trying" stories, it could doom Trump in NH.

On the other hand if Cruz wins Iowa and Christie wins NH somehow, we are going to see some serious shit, because Christie has absolutely no presence in later states. Cruz could start racking up victories.

 

[Holmes]

It's already up, A Human did this one.

Compared to the other ones that were made by bots? Yeah I'm on to you guys.

 

[Manmademan]

If Rubio pulls off second in Iowa, after all the "not trying" stories, it could doom Trump in NH.

On the other hand if Cruz wins Iowa and Christie wins NH somehow, we are going to see some serious shit, because Christie has absolutely no presence in later states. Cruz could start racking up victories.

Rubio has even less of a ground game in Iowa than Trump does, and absolutely no pull with evangelicals or anti establishment, which iowa is full of.

Winning Iowa is out of the question for Rubio. it's going to be Trump or Cruz.

 

[Retromelon]

Glad you're cheering on a thief. I guess all that moral outrage at Clinton about her being corrupt expressed by Bernie supporters is just feigned since he's obviously just as corrupt.

Its sad to see bernie tarred by this scandal and his message compromised when its one the country sorely needs. Its up to hillary "cut it out" clinton now. Please be excite.

 

[Teggy]

I will be curious to see Trumps response if he loses Iowa. The amount of whining will be epic.

 

[Manmademan]

I will be curious to see Trumps response if he loses Iowa. The amount of whining will be epic.

when has trump ever admitted defeat about anything? He'll just say he wasn't really putting his best effort in iowa, iowa hasn't been predictive of a winner (santorum, huckabee), and point to how well his polls are doing in new hampshire.

 

[Yellowtail]

Ready for Hilldawg to go ham tonight.

"SHAME ON YOU BERNIE SANDERS".

"MEET ME IN OHIO".

 

[120v]

dude goes apeshit over any random poll knocking him down a notch. i'd imagine losing iowa will be a pretty big tantrum

 

[Republic of Ezo]

If Rubio pulls off second in Iowa, after all the "not trying" stories, it could doom Trump in NH.

On the other hand if Cruz wins Iowa and Christie wins NH somehow, we are going to see some serious shit, because Christie has absolutely no presence in later states. Cruz could start racking up victories.

I don't think Rubio will pull into second in Iowa given that most of his problems are the same as Trump's (no ground game) and Trump has double Rubio's support in Iowa according to RCP. I'm pretty certain Cruz will end up winning the state just because of his operation and evangelical appeal, but I don't see Trump falling below second.

 

[Republic of Ezo]

I will be curious to see Trumps response if he loses Iowa. The amount of whining will be epic.

I would rather Trump steamroll through the primaries and then get curb stomped like 400-138 in the general. Or get Goldwater'd and lose like 500-38. I think his ego would shatter.

 

[ivysaur12]

Looks like Trump's Iowa ground game might be as full of bluster as the man himself:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/2...gn-lags-in-mobilizing-iowa-caucus-voters.html

Sorry no excerpt I'm on mobile.

Noooooooooooo

 

[Yellowtail]

Time to jump off the luxurious and classy but very leaky Trump Yahgt and jump aboard the winning Cruz Cruise.

 

[Holmes]

lol @ people jumping on the Cruz bandwagon because of a worthless state like Iowa.

 

[Iolo]

lol @ people jumping on the Cruz bandwagon because of a worthless state like Iowa.

Not because of Iowa but because of the SEC primary. Now, the second half of the calendar is totally stacked against Cruz. (I also think he will lose, hate to say it, because of his looks.)

 

[120v]

lol @ people jumping on the Cruz bandwagon because of a worthless state like Iowa.

he arguably has the best ground game. haven't been keeping a tally on financing but he's the only one competitive with rubio (and jeb, lol... but jeb)

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Alright, Clinton. Just... do it quickly, yeah? Make sure he doesn't suffer. Tell him about the rabbits.

;_;

 

[RustyNails]

Rubio has even less of a ground game in Iowa than Trump does, and absolutely no pull with evangelicals or anti establishment, which iowa is full of.

Winning Iowa is out of the question for Rubio. it's going to be Trump or Cruz.

Yea I could see Carson and Rand winning Iowa before Rubio. My prediction for Iowa caucuses:

1. Cruz
2. Carson
3. Trump
4. Rand
5. Rubio

he arguably has the best ground game. haven't been keeping a tally on financing but he's the only one competitive with rubio (and jeb, lol... but jeb)

Plus, Cruz' dad is a fire and brimstone church preacher man and is likely secretly campaigning for him there.

 

[ivysaur12]

The first thing I'll do if Trump or Cruz is the nominee is give to Ann Kirkpatrick, Deborah Ross, Josh Kandor, and fucking Baron Hill.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Looks like Trump's Iowa ground game might be as full of bluster as the man himself:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/2...gn-lags-in-mobilizing-iowa-caucus-voters.html

Sorry no excerpt I'm on mobile.

Homophobia/shit tweets aside, Steve Deace is a great person to follow regarding tea party politics with an Iowa focus
https://twitter.com/SteveDeaceShow

(he's also a pretty good sports fan if you're into football)

His argument for months has been that while Trump has hired the right people in Iowa, he turns off Evangelical caucus voters too much to win; and while his overall Iowa numbers are good there's little reason to believe most of his supporters will show up to vote.

 

[Teggy]

I would rather Trump steamroll through the primaries and then get curb stomped like 400-138 in the general. Or get Goldwater'd and lose like 500-38. I think his ego would shatter.

I'm in the same boat, but I don't think it has ever been likely for him to win Iowa based on its history.

 

[Iolo]

Maybe I was wrong about Sanders downplaying the data breach during the debate tonight.

According to people familiar with his plans, Sanders' central theme tonight will be about his disagreement with the Democratic infrastructure — neatly crystalized on Friday by the DNC’s decision to block Sanders from critical voter data, threatening to cripple his campaign, before it was resolved around midnight. It’s a point Sanders’ camp sees as especially potent among his supporters, who rally around the idea of a populist “political revolution.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/sanders-gets-the-fight-he-wanted-216965

I understand he's trying to motivate his base, but I thought his goal was to expand it.

 

[Diablos]

Ready for Hilldawg to go ham tonight.

"SHAME ON YOU BERNIE SANDERS".

"MEET ME IN OHIO".

Oh man, that was some shit. I remember those days.

 

[RustyNails]

Oh man, that was some shit. I remember those days.

I know right? Back when PD was a paid Hillary shill. Those were the days.

 

[Republic of Ezo]

Maybe I was wrong about Sanders downplaying the data breach during the debate tonight.



http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/sanders-gets-the-fight-he-wanted-216965

I understand he's trying to motivate his base, but I thought his goal was to expand it.

Bernie's last stand. This issue is so potentially crippling that he effectively has to turn it around politically for him to have any chance at this thing. It's a similar situation to McGovern's dropping Eagleton in 1972 - a guy seen as an "anti-politician" losing his outsider credibility and seeming like just another politician. The data theft is so brazenly political that it could completely sink whatever momentum he had (not that he was going to win this thing anyway...)

 

[Manmademan]

Yea I could see Carson and Rand winning Iowa before Rubio. My prediction for Iowa caucuses:

1. Cruz
2. Carson
3. Trump
4. Rand
5. Rubio

Plus, Cruz' dad is a fire and brimstone church preacher man and is likely secretly campaigning for him there.

Carson has collapsed in iowa just like he has nationally. Cruz is up because he took Carson's support, Carson isn't doing any better than Rubio is. Neither has a realistic shot.

It's basically

1.) Cruz/Trump

2.) Nobody

at this point.

 

[ivysaur12]

.

 

[Mike M]

Looks like Trump's Iowa ground game might be as full of bluster as the man himself:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/2...gn-lags-in-mobilizing-iowa-caucus-voters.html

Sorry no excerpt I'm on mobile.

Crazy, the only thing we'd been hearing up til this point was that Trump was taking Iowa seriously and had legions of people armed with cards explaining the caucus process and such.

Cruz has IA on lockdown.

 

[Kusagari]

Maybe I was wrong about Sanders downplaying the data breach during the debate tonight.



http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/sanders-gets-the-fight-he-wanted-216965

I understand he's trying to motivate his base, but I thought his goal was to expand it.

Maybe he'll shit on Debbie during the debate.

Only net positive out of this.

 

[And_Gignac]

See, Sanders backed Hillary on E-mails at the debate, hurting himself, and then she threw him under the bus (but failed). Disloyal person!

One step closer to the Trump/Sanders golden ticket. Run for ya life, Hillary.

Yeah, I know you're joking, but the Sanders fans who genuinely feel like that don't care or understand anything about the relevant issues facing the country today.


They just subscribe to a viewpoint that the "system is corrupt," and must be destroyed.

A big majority of voters are like this. Low info voters / one issue voters prevail every single election, thats why politicians appeal to emotions and have image advisors in the first place. This is not something exclusive to Sanders voters.

Glad you're cheering on a thief. I guess all that moral outrage at Clinton about her being corrupt expressed by Bernie supporters is just feigned since he's obviously just as corrupt.

Bernie giving the order to screencap all the Clinton data was an amazing display of political savyness, no doubt.

 

[B-Dubs]

Maybe I was wrong about Sanders downplaying the data breach during the debate tonight.



http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/sanders-gets-the-fight-he-wanted-216965

I understand he's trying to motivate his base, but I thought his goal was to expand it.

He has to do it. His team just pulled the most blatantly political, and scummy, move of the whole Dem primary. If he lets it this would destroy his image, he's supposed to be the honest one yet his team pulled the most dishonest move of the process, he's got no choice but to try and re-frame the issue.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Would it be incorrect to call this act Nixonian? It certainly has all the hallmarks. It just happened in the virtual space because back then they had no internet.

 

[B-Dubs]

Would it be incorrect to call this act Nixonian? It certainly has all the hallmarks. It just happened in the virtual space because back then they had no internet.

I made that joke very early on in the thread about the issue and got pounced upon. If it turns out that Bernie ordered this, which I very much doubt, then hell yes it's straight up out of his playbook. More likely his team is just super scummy, on Nixon's level themselves, or completely incompetent, either of which would be a surprise to no one given how they've run his campaign. Had this been Hillary or anyone else they'd have been run out of the primary by now.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I made that joke very early on in the thread about the issue and got pounced upon. If it turns out that Bernie ordered this, which I very much doubt, then hell yes it's straight up out of his playbook. More likely his team is just super scummy, on Nixon's level themselves, or completely incompetent, either of which would be a surprise to no one given how they've run his campaign. Had this been Hillary or anyone else they'd have been run out of the primary by now.

I'm just talking about what happened itself. I doubt Sanders personally approved of it but his operatives were clearly taking things in their own hands and were acting pretty scummy.

I've been saying this for a while but his supporters and now some of the people in his campaign have not done justice to the man himself and what he preaches AT ALL. It's sickening to see a guy talk about one thing and then his supporters do another. At least with Trump he spews the hatred his followers practice.

 

[Cerium]

Sanders is a fucking crook. Trying to turn this shit to his advantage is seriously slimy. Probably gonna skip the debates cause he'll just piss me off.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Sanders is a fucking crook. Trying to turn this shit to his advantage is seriously slimy. Probably gonna skip the debates cause he'll just piss me off.

I don't think Sanders had a lot of control over the response to this either. His people were out in front of cameras talking different messages. I just think his campaign is screwing him over and doing what they think is best for him without listening to what he says. Or he's being manipulated by people advising him.

 

[Tarkus]

Sanders is a fucking crook. Trying to turn this shit to his advantage is seriously slimy. Probably gonna skip the debates cause he'll just piss me off.

Bernie for prison

 

[Wilsongt]

Sanders is a fucking crook. Trying to turn this shit to his advantage is seriously slimy. Probably gonna skip the debates cause he'll just piss me off.

You in danger, girl. They coming.

 

[Basileus777]

I don't think Sanders had a lot of control over the response to this either. His people were out in front of cameras talking different messages. I just think his campaign is screwing him over and doing what they think is best for him without listening to what he says. Or he's being manipulated by people advising him.

He's supposedly running for President of the United States, if he can't control his own campaign that speaks horribly of him.

 

[Holmes]

Hillary needs to throw DWS under the bus a little and then claim moral high ground tonight to win this issue, especially if Sanders is going to play the victim.

 

[East Lake]

I made that joke very early on in the thread about the issue and got pounced upon. If it turns out that Bernie ordered this, which I very much doubt, then hell yes it's straight up out of his playbook. More likely his team is just super scummy, on Nixon's level themselves, or completely incompetent, either of which would be a surprise to no one given how they've run his campaign. Had this been Hillary or anyone else they'd have been run out of the primary by now.

Talk about conspiracy theories!

 

[Diablos]

Sanders is throwing gas on the fire. Tired of this guy. I hope he goes away after he loses in Iowa and New Hampshire.

 

[User 463088]

The issue is, if he plays the victim, it's only going to help him with his base. He already has an issue with actual Democrats. Hillary beats the crap out of him in that demo. This does not help him win over a single voter. There are no longer enough undecideds for him to lure. He has to get people from Hillary's camp. He's going to do that by bitching that his campaign got caught stealing information?

His supporters area alreday happy as fuck with the result. His best bet would be to play it classy. I'm not sure that's the advice he's been given, because he's surrounded himself with idiots.