• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2015 |OT2| Pls print

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Daniel B·

Banned
adam387 said:
Daniel B·;183221219 said:
Even if so, Bernie's also having some good press coverage with the Jake Tapper, CNN and Charlie Rose interviews, not to mention his warm reception on The View.

I'm not exactly sure what expression Jake Tapper was going for there (worried or bad burrito, perhaps ;) ), but Bernie was in good spirits.
Click to expand...
This is a legit question, and I'm not sure how to pose it without sounding like I'm being rude. So let me preface this by saying I'm not.

What would it take, in your estimation, for Bernie to have a bad week? I mean, from as neutral a perspective as I can muster, this has not been a good two weeks for him. He lost the first debate. His opponent cleared a major hurdle in her campaign and came out appearing far stronger. Polls have moved away from him. The reception to his JJ speech was not good among party activists. He's had a very, very bad polling day (even though I don't believe Hillary is 40 points up in Iowa). Like, I guess my question is, what do you perceive would actually be a bad week for Bernie?
Click to expand...

A sincere question: why aren't you a Bernie supporter?

On whether you can get married. my view has always been, "Who the hell am I to say, that a gay couple can't get married?", when your sexuality is hardwired at birth? The fact the British establishment forced Alan Turing to endure a chemical castration, which resulted in him taking his own life, the guy that made a huge contribution in defeating Nazi Germany in WW2, just because he was homosexual, makes me fucking furious! They couldn't even make an exception, in this one case. Absolutely fucking disgraceful and a horrible reflection on human society. Thankfully, society has evolved, for the better, but Bernie has always been for your right to marry, just like every other straight couple.

On protecting our truly wonderous planet and all its life, for ourselves and future generations, we need a President, now, who will, if necessary, guide us through the quite possibly, tough transition to a truly sustainable existence, where Humankind's inherent shortcomings are kept in check, and their stranglehold on our democracy is forever lifted. Hand on heart, does that person really, really, sound like Hillary Clinton? If the American people, from all walks of life, awaken for a true peoples President, Bernie Sanders could be that very person.

If, as expected, the Republicans maintain their zero compromise stance, following their inevitable loss in the Presidential election (I hope one of the reasons you support Hillary isn't because you seriously believe Bernie could lose against these Republican candidates, when the people are willing to fund almost anything on Kickstarter?), all it would take for Bernie to enact his policies, would be for the people to stand up, once again, in the mid-term elections, and I strongly believe Bernie and his policies would provide ample motivation for that to happen.

There's more, if you're willing to hear me, but it's time for lunch ;), but I am of course eager to get your comments so far.
 
O

Outdoor Miner

Member
Watched the 1st Repub debate and some of the 2nd. I don't have it in me to continue watching the clown show anymore.

Sanders campaign RIP. Don't go negative my man, I don't regret donating to you but I might if you start to fuck up the Dems chances in 2016.
 
H

Hilbert

Deep into his 30th decade
Daniel B·;183268547 said:
, but Bernie has always been for your right to marry, just like every other straight couple..
Click to expand...

This isn't actually true, in 2006 he opposed gay marriage in Vermont.

It's on record and has been in the news recently. It's part of why he is having a bad week this week.
 
B

Bowdz

Member
NeoXChaos said:
Exactly:



Bernie is really going to feel this Bern:

Congressman for 2nd District of California
Click to expand...

Yep. I think that thought process describes what most Democrats are thinking. We love Bernie, but also have a lot of respect for Clinton and view her as the instrument to deliver the biggest wave in the election.

Also, this stood out to me in this Politico piece this morning:

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/leaked-memo-hillary-clinton-still-concerned-jeb-bush-21523

Politico/Robby Mook said:
“There are 712 total superdelegates in the Democratic nomination process and Hillary has enjoyed historical levels of support from them,” writes Mook, outlining the front-runner’s lead among party leaders. “Today, Hillary has more support from superdelegates than all the pledged delegates awarded in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina, and a third of delegates awarded on Super Tuesday combined."
Click to expand...
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
YouGov

CSavdvoXIAEi7nu.png
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Daniel B·;183268547 said:
A sincere question: why aren't you a Bernie supporter?
Click to expand...

Not him, but I'm not a Bernie supporter because I have zero trust in the average voter, don't think Bernie is all that great a campaigner even if he did somehow get the nomination, and I have a firm belief that the only way positive change ever happens in America is slowly, with a lot of blood (physical and metaphorical) being spilled, inch by inch.
 
R

Retromelon

Member
EskimoJoe said:
Hahaha, that's really not bad. He got me.

Also, the fact the he's making fun of himself for the water bottle stuff is good, considering it's the stupidest fucking thing for people to still be hanging on to.
Click to expand...
I would wager there have been at least twenty rubio water jokes made here since the first gop debate. Shots fired? (I kept making the dean scream parallel every time it came up but people don't care)
Furthermore, I would approve of his own water jokes if they were any good, but they are so milquetoast, corny, and panderingly self deprecating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzyzoFZP-tk
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
I love the water jokes.

Well.. not the jokes themselves. I like the cringey, awkward *THUD!* that we get to hear after each joke's stilted delivery.

ThwompCrushesDinoguy.gif
 
M

Maledict

Member
I sometimes forget how truly evil Fox news and the right wing of American politics is.

After watching the link above, I decided I'd go watch something involving Cruz to remind myself of what a shitbag he is. Top link, an interview he did on Hannity a few weeks ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rHrVUaghC4

They hit all the buttons. Obama hates Christians, but defends Muslims. Obama sat in Jeremiah Wrights church for 20 years (HOW CAN THEY NOT SEE THE CONTRADICTION HERE?). Christians are persecuted (with the tag line Obama's anti-christian rhetoric).

I mean, I hate to sound like I'm against free speech but Christ alive Fox is just pure, condensed evil piped into people's front rooms.

(Also, I think I'm betraying my euro-lefty communist tenancy or something, but when they show a clip of Reverand Wright saying that 9/11 was American's chickens coming home to roost because of their foreign policy - I agree with him!).
 
B

brainchild

Banned
teiresias said:
Why does this whole "Bernie hired a pollster" get so much play? I mean, shouldn't a campaign have one regardless? Not a good look for the ability you actually run a national general election campaign if you ask me.
Click to expand...

Bernie's the one making a big fuss about it. It's literally part of his strategy for snagging the minority vote.
 
O

Outdoor Miner

Member
Gerrymandering is a huge part of why politics in this country are so screwed up right now, but how did Republicans come to control the process?

Was it back in 2010 where we had the combination of a typical non-Presidential Dem showing (bad) + the national census that is conducted every 10 years? If so, does that give one hope that 2020 would see something of a balancing in the process?
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
Outdoor Miner said:
Gerrymandering is a huge part of why politics in this country are so screwed up right now, but how did Republicans come to control the process?

Was it back in 2010 where we had the combination of a typical non-Presidential Dem showing (bad) + the national census that is conducted every 10 years? If so, does that give one hope that 2020 would see something of a balancing in the process?
Click to expand...

Read this: http://blogs.rollcall.com/rothenblog/dont-blame-gerrymandering-gop-fighting-hill/?dcz=


tdr: Part of it is because of Gerrymandering but part of it is also because of Geography.

But there is no guarantee that taking map-drawing responsibilities out of partisan hands will result in more moderate members. Four out of five Republican members of the Arizona delegation are part of the House Freedom Caucus, even though the state’s lines were drawn by an independent redistricting commission. In Iowa, congressional lines are drawn by a nonpartisan agency, yet freshman GOP Rep. Rob Blum is part of the Freedom Caucus and Rep. Steve King is regarded as one of the chamber’s most conservative members.

As Suddes pointed out, most House seats are filled not in November general elections but in Republican or Democratic primaries by voters on the edges of the ideological spectrum. But that has at least as much, if not more, to do with sorting — people living in proximity to like-minded people — than partisan redistricting.
Click to expand...

but:

There is no question Republicans took advantage of their legislative majorities to draw redraw congressional maps to boost their House majority. And the party may be suffering from expectations of that large majority. But it’s important to understand that maximizing gains through redistricting means drawing less safe districts, not more. And there are a number of factors that help explain the infighting on the Republican side beyond partisan map drawing.
Click to expand...
 
T

teiresias

Member
brainchild said:
Bernie's the one making a big fuss about it. It's literally part of his strategy for snagging the minority vote.
Click to expand...

Well, that's why I'm asking. I mean, it's not unusual for a campaign to have a damn pollster, right? Why call attention to the fact that he's just now getting around to hiring for something anyone competent at running a national campaign would have already done?
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Outdoor Miner said:
Gerrymandering is a huge part of why politics in this country are so screwed up right now, but how did Republicans come to control the process?

Was it back in 2010 where we had the combination of a typical non-Presidential Dem showing (bad) + the national census that is conducted every 10 years? If so, does that give one hope that 2020 would see something of a balancing in the process?
Click to expand...

Gerrymandering is unfortunately not that huge a part of GOP control. You can just look at the Senate for evidence here, where there's no gerrymandering because everything is statewide and yet the GOP still control it. The problem is mainly about Democrats clustering into urban areas and the American system in general being designed to protect the interests of rural communities and smaller states.

But yes, the national census happening in 2010 wasn't great, and 2020 will probably improve things. By then things should already have improved, though, because gerrymandering decays over time due to natural population migration.
 
B

brainchild

Banned
teiresias said:
Well, that's why I'm asking. I mean, it's not unusual for a campaign to have a damn pollster, right? Why call attention to the fact that he's just now getting around to hiring for something anyone competent at running a national campaign would have already done?
Click to expand...


Because it proves that Bernie is going the more traditional route, which is the opposite of his typical campaigning style. That kind of dramatic shift in political strategizing is certainly newsworthy when you consider the context and implications.
 
B

BertramCooper

Banned
Bowdz said:
Start tweeting the article at Trump. The man is always on his twitter account and will probably see it if he hasn't already.
Click to expand...

Pretty much every major paper has reported on that that editorial. It's everywhere today. I can't imagine that Trump hasn't seen it, and I'll be very disappointed if he doesn't bring it up.
 
M

Makai

Member
"If Marco Rubio doesn't think voting is worth his time, he's not worth your vote."

I expect something like that from Jeb.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
It's fun to see that it's not just Trump with a target on his back, but Carson and Rubio as well.
 
M

Makai

Member
brainchild said:
Honestly, I thought that was a short and sweet, yet very effective ad. I also think he came across much better than he normally does.

He's a terrible candidate, but I can't hate on that ad.
Click to expand...
It reinforces the perception that he has no idea what's going on. "There must be a good idea in there somewhere."

This dude said he would abolish Medicare, which as Joe said, is "one of the more successful government programs."
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Daniel B·;183268547 said:
A sincere question: why aren't you a Bernie supporter?

On whether you can get married. my view has always been, "Who the hell am I to say, that a gay couple can't get married?", when your sexuality is hardwired at birth? The fact the British establishment forced Alan Turing to endure a chemical castration, which resulted in him taking his own life, the guy that made a huge contribution in defeating Nazi Germany in WW2, just because he was homosexual, makes me fucking furious! They couldn't even make an exception, in this one case. Absolutely fucking disgraceful and a horrible reflection on human society. Thankfully, society has evolved, for the better, but Bernie has always been for your right to marry, just like every other straight couple.

On protecting our truly wonderous planet and all its life, for ourselves and future generations, we need a President, now, who will, if necessary, guide us through the quite possibly, tough transition to a truly sustainable existence, where Humankind's inherent shortcomings are kept in check, and their stranglehold on our democracy is forever lifted. Hand on heart, does that person really, really, sound like Hillary Clinton? If the American people, from all walks of life, awaken for a true peoples President, Bernie Sanders could be that very person.

If, as expected, the Republicans maintain their zero compromise stance, following their inevitable loss in the Presidential election (I hope one of the reasons you support Hillary isn't because you seriously believe Bernie could lose against these Republican candidates, when the people are willing to fund almost anything on Kickstarter?), all it would take for Bernie to enact his policies, would be for the people to stand up, once again, in the mid-term elections, and I strongly believe Bernie and his policies would provide ample motivation for that to happen.

There's more, if you're willing to hear me, but it's time for lunch ;), but I am of course eager to get your comments so far.
Click to expand...

Well, to begin with, Bernie has not always been in favor of same sex marriage. He voted against DOMA because he said marriage was a state's issue. In 2006, he was for civil unions and agreed with Vermont's law creating them. When he was major, he said that gay rights weren't a priority for him, and that he probably wouldn't support a bill protecting gays from discrimination. He evolved on the issue just like everyone else. If you're a member of a minority group, I think you often support people based on their current positions. If I was pissed at everyone who, at some point, didn't support gay marriage, I'd be a bitter old queen. Well, more of a bitter queen than I am now. A Time's Article about it posted today.

As far as campaign finances, while I certainly do not like Citizens United, I'm not a single issue voter. Hillary has said a litmus test for her nominee for Supreme Court would be if they would want to overturn it. She's been consistent on this, and I believe her.

This call, that Americans will just magically wake up, throw away decades of beliefs, and embrace the great liberal savior Bernie Sanders is just, in my opinion, the epitome of wishful thinking. He can't even get a majority within the liberal party of this country, but he's going to magically fix everything. These are the same things that have been promised by far left candidates before. They never, ever achieve them.

I do believe, very firmly, that Sanders could lose to some of the GOP wack jobs, yes. This is the country that voted for Shrub twice. Sanders' campaign has showed that they are, at best, inept and at worse completely tone deaf and incompetent. I do not trust them to lead a General election campaign. The moment someone doesn't bow down and worship him, he gets entirely off message and seems to have no clue how to proceed.

Why I support Clinton over Bernie boils down to a few things:

1) Sanders is entirely wrong on guns. While I'm not a single issue voter, his positions are not acceptable to me.

2) I do not trust Sanders when it comes to anything other than his economic populism. I do not trust him on foreign policy. I fundamentally disagree that every single one of life's ills results from income inequality. It's part of the problem, but it's far deeper than that.

3) I do not believe in protectionism.

4) I also don't agree with him on the way in which he wants to enact certain policies. They are based on the idea that you need not compromise with anyone, and that you can create a system (be it educational or health care) from scratch, ignoring what we have in place here already.

5) On a personal level, I like Hillary Clinton better than I like Bernie Sanders. I'll be honest, the longer this campaign goes, the less I like him. I still think he's a good person. He's principled. He and I agree on a lot of the issues, but I can't say I personally care for him.

6) Hillary Clinton is actually a Democrat. Sanders has never stumped for a candidate outside of his state. He is not a member of the party. He owes the party nothing. He's never had a leadership position within it, yet now he wants to be the standard bearer? No. That's not how this works. You don't get to be an Independent when it suits you, then decide you want to be a Democrat when you decide you want to do something else.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT6| Made this thread during Harvey because the ratings would be higher
338 339 340 341 342
17K
2M
UselessNapkin replied
GAF Museum - The Greatest OTs of All Time (or at least, some of the great ones)
|OT|
4
2K
Komatsu replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair
395 396 397 398 399
20K
2M
RDreamer replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house
396 397 398 399 400
20K
2M
ShironRedshift replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why
393 394 395 396 397
20K
2M
Zaraki_Kenpachi replied
Top Bottom