• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2015 |OT2| Pls print

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Cerium

Member
Makai said:
5fJrw4T.png
Click to expand...

fV0hUik.gif
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Un-named man got a bit too big for his britches

I love this. This shows that Hillary's campaign is not full of idiots this time around. This is how you can adequately punch down without looking like a total jerk. Plus, it's a nice, subtle way of hitting back against the "disgraceful" stuff he's being saying on the news shows. (Not what he said was disgraceful, but calling Hillary that.)

What, apart from the petition and the outrage?

The good news is that although the union management, and superdelegates, may well endorse Hillary, the millions upon millions of union members are still free to vote for Bernie in the primaries :).
Click to expand...

A Change.org petition that anyone can sign that has less than 1000 signatures from a Union that has over 500,000 members.

I have a legit question for you:

If, when this is all over, Hillary wins the primary decisively, will you admit that we Democrats just didn't feel the Bern the same way you did? Or will there be some other explanation. Perhaps ACORN stole it for her? Once the votes are counted, will you be ready to admit that all of these things aren't some big. huge conspiracy to stop Bernie Sanders?

Also, Kasich can shut all the way the hell up. I have no idea why he's even bothering anymore. I really don't.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Daniel B·;185843630 said:
What, apart from the petition and the outrage?

The good news is that although the union management, and superdelegates, may well endorse Hillary, the millions upon millions of union members are still free to vote for Bernie in the primaries :).
Click to expand...

Yes, apart from the petition and the outrage. Like actual numbers.

For all we know this could be a dozen guys.

I'm not saying it is-- but I don't see anything to suggest that the union members would go for Bernie more than the overall well-polled Democratic electorate.
 
C

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
The one good thing about climate change is that it might finally end this stupid clash of civilizations stuff once 95% of the population has gone extinct.
 
U

User 406

Banned
Bam Bam Baklava said:
I thought Kasich was supposed to be the reasonable compassionate moderate or whatever angle he was pushing.
Click to expand...

I told you about Kasich bro!

I TOLD you dog!


adam387 said:
If, when this is all over, Hillary wins the primary decisively, will you admit that we Democrats just didn't feel the Bern the same way you did? Or will there be some other explanation. Perhaps ACORN stole it for her? Once the votes are counted, will you be ready to admit that all of these things aren't some big. huge conspiracy to stop Bernie Sanders?
Click to expand...

Even more to the point, if Bernie is indeed a purehearted soul who genuinely wants what is best for the country, and that he's smart enough and experienced enough in office to make the right decisions in that regard, then when he endorses Hillary after dropping out of the primary, will his voters listen to him? After all, he does have our best interests at heart, and he wouldn't endorse her if it was a bad idea. He's clearly thought this through, since he did rule out right at the start that he would not be running third party because he would not want to spoil the Democratic nominee's chances in the general election.

So, if Hillary gets the nomination and Bernie endorses her, will all of his "$hillary is pure evil" fans listen to him? Or will his magic aura of being right about everything wear off?
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Ignatz Mouse said:
Yes, apart from the petition and the outrage. Like actual numbers.

For all we know this could be a dozen guys.

I'm not saying it is-- but I don't see anything to suggest that the union members would go for Bernie more than the overall well-polled Democratic electorate.
Click to expand...

In the case of SEIU, they had three different town halls and polled their members at least 3 times. In each, she received over 2/3 of the vote.

And to Daniel:

You don't expect every single union member to vote the exact same way, right? I have no doubt that some SEIU will vote for Bernie. Some may vote for O'Malley. Some of the postal worker people will vote for Hillary. There doesn't have to be pure uniformity within a union for it to endorse a candidate.
 
L

Lucky Forward

Member
Gawker to Retool as Politics Site

Gawker.com, a site that pioneered the knowing, sarcastic tone that has come to define web journalism, will switch from covering New York and the media world, as it has done since its founding in 2003, to focus on politics.

The change, which is part of a broad reorganization of the site’s parent company, Gawker Media, was announced in a memo to the staff on Tuesday. The site, wrote Gawker’s founder, Nick Denton, “will ride the circus of the 2016 campaign cycle, seizing the opportunity to reorient its editorial scope on political news, commentary and satire.”
Click to expand...
 
J

j_k_redtail

Member
Black Mamba said:
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/201...agency-promote-judeo-christian-values-n465101
As part of a broad national security plan to defeat ISIS, Republican Presidential candidate John Kasich proposed creating a new government agency to push Judeo-Christian values around the world.

The new agency, which he hasn't yet named, would promote a Jewish- and Christian-based belief system to four regions of the world: China, Iran, Russia and the Middle East.

"We need to beam messages around the world" about the freedoms Americans enjoy, Kasich said in an interview with NBC News Tuesday.

He defended creating a new government agency at a time when fellow Republican presidential candidates discuss eliminating government agencies to making the government smaller.
Click to expand...

The GOP becoming more and more like ISIS II by the day.
Click to expand...

Well to be fair, it really does depend on which values he's referring to. There were certain ideas introduced/adopted/amplified by early Christianity that changed our culture (in the West) so radically that we're barely able to recognize it today. The concept that "children have rights" is a good example. Dr. Paul Offitt (yes, the MMR vaccine inventor) explains this beautifully in his book Bad Faith. That particular value is sorely needed in places like Afghanistan today, where pederasty is rampant. But I'm not sure why he Gov Kaisch thinks the federal government should be projecting a particular value system, particularly since his party is so wedded to the idea that government is ineffective at... just about everything.


Black Mamba said:
PS: This Ben Carson stuff makes no much sense. I'm not joking when I say idiot savant.
Click to expand...

On that note:

Report: Carson's top advisers question his foreign policy grasp
“Nobody has been able to sit down with him and have him get one iota of intelligent information about the Middle East,” said Duane Clarridge, a top adviser to Carson on terrorism and national security. Carson needs weekly foreign policy briefings to “make him smart,” added Clarridge, a longtime CIA agent who is seen as a colorful figure.
Click to expand...
 
D

Daniel B·

Banned
adam387 said:
In the case of SEIU, they had three different town halls and polled their members at least 3 times. In each, she received over 2/3 of the vote.

And to Daniel:

You don't expect every single union member to vote the exact same way, right? I have no doubt that some SEIU will vote for Bernie. Some may vote for O'Malley. Some of the postal worker people will vote for Hillary. There doesn't have to be pure uniformity within a union for it to endorse a candidate.
Click to expand...

If Bernie's campaign is successful, in getting his message out to the overwhelming majority of Americans, including counteracting the misinformation put out by Hillary, her army of lobbyists and ardent GAF supporters (that long list of union endorsements isn't looking so rosy now, and just further strengthens our resolve), I have little doubt the American people will vote for Bernie in droves.

If Bernie wins the nomination, given that no one questions his integrity, and you possibly couldn't meet a more down to Earth and affable politician, do you think that Democrats will not get fully behind his presidential bid? It's not as if their positions in the party are going to disappear, unless they just can't live with his policies, such as granting a college education to any dedicated student, regardless of their families income?
 
T

Third Strike

Member
RustyNails said:
Bye marco. Hope you enjoyed your (short) time trailing Ben Carson by 10 points. Not many can make that proud claim.
Click to expand...

It's really starting to hit me that Trump is going to be the nominee. If this was just a race between Rubio and Trump, then I would say Rubio would likely be the nominee. But having to compete with Bush and Cruz, along with Carson holding the bulk of the Religious Right's votes, is going to make this very difficult for Rubio. Jeb will also be there to the very end, so there's that.

I guess there's always 2020.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
j_k_redtail said:
I'll bet his supporters will go to Carson.

Not that it'll make much difference, because at < 1% he was polling at the level of a rounding error.
Click to expand...

By Supporters you mean his wife, right? Pretty sure it's his only supporter..

Daniel B·;185853788 said:
If Bernie's campaign is successful, in getting his message out to the overwhelming majority of Americans, including counteracting the misinformation put out by Hillary, her army of lobbyists and ardent GAF supporters (that long list of union endorsements isn't looking so rosy now, and just further strengthens our resolve), I have little doubt the American people will vote for Bernie in droves.
Click to expand...

So the people who voted for McCain and Romney will turn out for Bernie too? Cuz that is what is required for "droves."

If Bernie wins the nomination, given that no one questions his integrity, and you possibly couldn't meet a more down to Earth and affable politician, do you think that Democrats will not get fully behind his presidential bid? It's not as if their positions in the party are going to disappear, unless they just can't live with his policies, such as granting a college education to any dedicated student, regardless of their families income?
Click to expand...

The issue isn't whether long time democrats will vote for him. They will. Everyone here that is a Democrat will. The problem is he won't bring in as many swing voters and soft voters. And swing voters are generally morons, so don't act like Bernie can magically convince them.

And yes, a huge chunk of our population are against granting free college education regardless of income. For fuck suck's, many Republicans think Obama is a Muslim. Do you not realize how illiterate our voters are?
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Daniel B·;185853788 said:
If Bernie's campaign is successful, in getting his message out to the overwhelming majority of Americans, including counteracting the misinformation put out by Hillary, her army of lobbyists and ardent GAF supporters (that long list of union endorsements isn't looking so rosy now, and just further strengthens our resolve), I have little doubt the American people will vote for Bernie in droves.
Click to expand...

Holllly....So, now Unions who don't endorse Bernie Sanders are part of the corporate, neo-liberal wing of the Democratic Party!? Unions? We've now reached the point where Unions are part of the problem. In a Democratic Primary. Is this real life? Is this just fantasy?

So, basically, the only people who aren't corporate shrills are the people who have endorsed Bernie Sanders. Everyone else is part of the problem. If Bernie has this huge majority of people supporting him....how come he doesn't have a majority of the Progressives in Congress? How about a single governor? A single Senator? A single state party chair? A majority of unions?

If Bernie wins the nomination, given that no one questions his integrity, and you possibly couldn't meet a more down to Earth and affable politician, do you think that Democrats will not get fully behind his presidential bid? It's not as if their positions in the party are going to disappear, unless they just can't live with his policies, such as granting a college education to any dedicated student, regardless of their families income?
Click to expand...

I have never seen anyone question Bernie's integrity. However, an election isn't a "Lets all hold hands and love each other" thing. If you think any criticisms of Sanders are attacks on his integrity....you're in for a world of hurt should he make it into the General. Pointing out that Bernie is wrong on something is not an attack on him as a person. It's showing that, and I know this may be surprising.....he's human. It's totally possible he's completely wrong on something. And it's okay! Hillary's wrong on things sometimes, too.

And, no, I don't think the Democratic party will be fully behind him.Will I vote for him? Absolutely. I also think it's funny that you think Bernie Sanders could "do" anything to someone in the party. He caucuses with us because we want him to. He has no power or say within the party at all. Zero. (Which is part of the reason he has so many issues trying to win.)

But, again, that's not what I asked you. What I asked you was that when the election is over, and IF Hillary wins will you admit that Democrats did not agree that Bernie Sanders was the best choice for President? Will you admit that they just didn't Feel the Bern.

I will, right now, unequivocally say that if Hillary loses, then I was wrong. I was completely wrong.

whipihguh said:
Jindal just dropped out of the race live on Fox News.
Click to expand...

Oh, no. Poor Piyush!
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Black Mamba said:
By Supporters you mean his wife, right? Pretty sure it's his only supporter..



So the people who voted for McCain and Romney will turn out for Bernie too? Cuz that is what is required for "droves."



The issue isn't whether long time democrats will vote for him. They will. Everyone here that is a Democrat will. The problem is he won't bring in as many swing voters and soft voters. And swing voters are generally morons, so don't act like Bernie can magically convince them.

And yes, a huge chunk of our population are against granting free college education regardless of income. For fuck suck's, many Republicans think Obama is a Muslim. Do you not realize how illiterate our voters are?
Click to expand...

hmm
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
proof voters are morons:


BOONEVILLE — The 66 percent of Owsley County that gets health coverage through Medicaid now must reconcile itself with the 70 percent that voted for Republican Governor-elect Matt Bevin, who pledged to cut the state's Medicaid program and close the state-run Kynect health insurance exchange.

...

"If anything changed with our insurance to make it more expensive for us, that would be a big problem," Botner, a community college student, said Friday at the Owsley County Public Library, where she works. "Just with the blood tests, you're talking maybe $1,000 a year without insurance."

Yet two weeks earlier, despite his much-discussed plans to repeal Kynect and toughen eligibility requirements for Medicaid, she voted for Bevin.

"I'm just a die-hard Republican," she said.

...

The trend seemed to hold across the state. At Transylvania University, political scientist Andrea Malji said she has crunched state data and found a "99 percent confidence level" between the counties' Medicaid enrollment levels and their gubernatorial choices. The larger the Medicaid numbers, the more likely they were to back Bevin, she said. The lower the Medicaid numbers, the more likely they were to favor the Democratic nominee, Attorney General Jack Conway.
Click to expand...

http://www.kentucky.com/news/politics-government/article45093165.html


edit: This should be a lesson to Dems.

1. Medicaid/Obamacare is not driving these votes.

2. What is driving these votes are the social policies of this country moving left and it's a protest vote.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Black Mamba said:
The trend seemed to hold across the state. At Transylvania University, political scientist Andrea Malji said she has crunched state data and found a "99 percent confidence level" between the counties' Medicaid enrollment levels and their gubernatorial choices. The larger the Medicaid numbers, the more likely they were to back Bevin, she said. The lower the Medicaid numbers, the more likely they were to favor the Democratic nominee, Attorney General Jack Conway.
Click to expand...

Holy shit.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
RDreamer said:
Holy shit.
Click to expand...

It makes sense, though.

In the south, poor whites overshadow any other group of poor people.

in the south, poor whites vote for social issues or don't vote at all. Even issues that who they vote for has no control over.

The notion that the 'moocher" is a single black woman with 8 kids is incorrect. The average poor southerner is a white family with 2-3 children struggling to pay their bills despite working 1 or 2 jobs each. And they harm themselves with these votes.

There's no solution other than to hope over time they soften their social positions as things change...or their kids care less about it.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Black Mamba said:
It makes sense, though.

In the south, poor whites overshadow any other group of poor people.

in the south, poor whites vote for social issues or don't vote at all. Even issues that who they vote for has no control over.

The notion that the 'moocher" is a single black woman with 8 kids is incorrect. The average poor southerner is a white family with 2-3 children struggling to pay their bills despite working 1 or 2 jobs each. And they harm themselves with these votes.

There's no solution other than to hope over time they soften their social positions as things change...or their kids care less about it.
Click to expand...

It's definitely the conclusion I would have guessed, just not quite to that extent. I didn't think the correlation would hold quite as much.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
RDreamer said:
It's definitely the conclusion I would have guessed, just not quite to that extent. I didn't think the correlation would hold quite as much.
Click to expand...

From the article:

"I have always said I am willing to pay a little bit to keep these benefits," Botner said. "In order to keep health insurance for me and my son, I'd pay $20 a month if that's what they asked me. I'd pay $5 each time I went to the doctor. Of course, if you start to get up to $50 or $60 a month, in that range, that would be more than we could afford."
/QUOTE]

Without medicaid, expect it to be $700 a month for the two of you, buddy. Maybe you'll rethink your vote in 4 years.
Click to expand...
 
S

Snake

Member
Black Mamba said:
proof voters are morons:
Click to expand...

That may well be true in many cases, but Owsley County, Kentucky is one of those counties in southeastern Kentucky and eastern Tennessee that voted Republican in every single Presidential election in the last 100+ years, including when FDR and LBJ scored massive landslides. There was never any realistic hope of winning those voters over.

The overall trend may just be that extremely conservative local governance led to higher poverty and uninsurance rates, and those who disproportionately benefited from the ACA as a result in those regions were never going to vote Democratic.
 
T

timetokill

Banned
PantherLotus said:
Hillary's Wall Street donations comments are troublesome for three reasons, neither of which have anything to do with Sanders:

-- One, she dismissed them completely as if Wall Street wasn't at the heart of the economic collapse from which we have only barely recovered.

-- Two, her positions IRT Wall Street certainly leave some worried about it happening again.

-- Three, her dismissal under the cloak of 9/11 felt so much like Cheney / Bush / Giuliani that I'm certain it makes her supporters and her left flank queasy AS FUCK.
Click to expand...

Agreed. But for as corporate-friendly as Hillary is I don't see why anybody would be surprised.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
As promised, I'm calling-in sick to work for tomorrow so that I can stay up late and celebrate.

(Sorry Retro! To be honest, you were the first person I thought of when I saw the news. We'll always have memories..)
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Snake said:
That may well be true in many cases, but Owsley County, Kentucky is one of those counties in southeastern Kentucky and eastern Tennessee that voted Republican in every single Presidential election in the last 100+ years, including when FDR and LBJ scored massive landslides. There was never any realistic hope of winning those voters over.

The overall trend may just be that extremely conservative local governance led to higher poverty and uninsurance rates, and those who disproportionately benefited from the ACA as a result in those regions were never going to vote Democratic.
Click to expand...

That they were never going to vote Democratic despite such important matters doesn't make them not morons.
 
T

thefro

Member
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/17/politics/catholics-evangelicals-refugees/index.html

Big pushback coming from religious groups on the scapegoating of Syrian refugees for political gain.

Two of the country's largest and most influential religious groups, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and the National Association of Evangelicals, are urging the United States not to halt the resettlement of Syrian refugees after the deadly terrorist attack in Paris last Friday.

"Of course we want to keep terrorists out of our country, but let's not punish the victims of ISIS for the sins of ISIS," Leith Anderson, NAE president, said on Tuesday.

House Speaker Paul Ryan has called for a "pause" in the U.S. program accepting Syrian refugees and 27 governors have said they will not welcome them, though they have little legal authority to bar the federal government from settling refugees in their states.

Meanwhile, almost every GOP presidential candidate has said the United States should stop admitting Syrian refugees. Ted Cruz told CNN that the country should deny entry to Muslims from Syria, but leave the door open to fleeing Christians. Jeb Bush said refugee resettlement should "focus" on Christians.

Tuesday's announcements from the Catholic bishops and evangelical association, which represents some 45,000 churches, put several candidates squarely at odds with their religious leaders. Sen. Marco Rubio, Bush and Chris Christie are Catholic. Cruz and Mike Huckabee are evangelicals.

"I am disturbed ... by calls from both federal and state officials for an end to the resettlement of Syrian refugees in the United States," Bishop Eusebio Elizondo, Chairman of the Catholic bishops' committee on migration, said on Tuesday.

"These refugees are fleeing terror themselves -- violence like we have witnessed in Paris. They are extremely vulnerable families, women, and children who are fleeing for their lives. We cannot and should not blame them for the actions of a terrorist organization."
Click to expand...

Catholic Relief Services (ran by US Bishops) has a pretty good article here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT6| Made this thread during Harvey because the ratings would be higher
338 339 340 341 342
17K
2M
UselessNapkin replied
GAF Museum - The Greatest OTs of All Time (or at least, some of the great ones)
|OT|
4
2K
Komatsu replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair
395 396 397 398 399
20K
2M
RDreamer replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house
396 397 398 399 400
20K
2M
ShironRedshift replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why
393 394 395 396 397
20K
2M
Zaraki_Kenpachi replied
Top Bottom