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[User 463088]

Yeah.

Checking my twitter, a lot of people are rushing to her defense on saying this.

I honestly think it's going to play well with liberals. This is the exact thing people expect
"authentic", and "telling it like it is" speakers to say.

Hell, I'm half tempted, if I'm Mook, to own the fuck out of this and call another speech on the alt-right. There's been new shit added to that fire. Own the fuck out of it. Why not? Go balls to the wall "Yup, this is what I said...and, again, here are the receipts." You can argue that these 50% of Trump supporters have taken over the Republican party. Recast it (again) as a referendum on Trump. Shit, why not.

 

[User 463088]

My only thing with it is how comparable it is to Romney's 47%.

That's entirely different for a lot of reasons. Like, number one, it was on video. There's no soundbite of this, so far as I know. Which, while it may be stupid that this makes a difference, I think it does.

The second difference is that Romney's 47% comment confirmed a narrative about him. This...doesn't. In fact, it cements an argument about Trump. That's why so many people are like "Well, ya...." or "It should be higher than that."

There is polling to back that up. A majority of voters believe that Trump is either a racist or a bigot. A majority of people believe that he uses racially charged language. These same polls confirm that only the hardcore Trump diehards actually think Hillary is either a racist or a bigot. So.....I don't feel this has the same bite, outside the fact that, like, "half" and 47% are kind of close?

 

[metalslimer]

My only thing with it is how comparable it is to Romney's 47%.

The bad thing for Romney was he literally called 47% of the entire country takers while she is calling out a segment of the people already supporting Trump

That's entirely different for a lot of reasons. Like, number one, it was on video. There's no soundbite of this, so far as I know. Which, while it may be stupid that this makes a difference, I think it does.

There's a video. Don Lemon played it. Luckily for her, she said it on a weekend. I sort of agree with royalan. I think she can clarify the comment, but she cannot back down from it.

 

[Effect]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/774451020768374784

Nick Merrill is the Clinton Campaign Spokes Person. So it doesn't look like they'll back away from it but once again talk about the alt right.

With that I need sleep and worry or just deal with this in the morning.

 

[royalan]

Hell, I'm half tempted, if I'm Mook, to own the fuck out of this and call another speech on the alt-right. There's been new shit added to that fire. Own the fuck out of it. Why not? Go balls to the wall "Yup, this is what I said...and, again, here are the receipts." You can argue that these 50% of Trump supporters have taken over the Republican party. Recast it (again) as a referendum on Trump. Shit, why not.

I absolutely agree.

Don't worry, sis. I'll tell him in the morning about your idea.

 

[JHoNNy1OoO]

That's entirely different for a lot of reasons. Like, number one, it was on video. There's no soundbite of this, so far as I know. Which, while it may be stupid that this makes a difference, I think it does.

The second difference is that Romney's 47% comment confirmed a narrative about him. This...doesn't. In fact, it cements an argument about Trump. That's why so many people are like "Well, ya...." or "It should be higher than that."

There is polling to back that up. A majority of voters believe that Trump is either a racist or a bigot. A majority of people believe that he uses racially charged language. These same polls confirm that only the hardcore Trump diehards actually think Hillary is either a racist or a bigot. So.....I don't feel this has the same bite, outside the fact that, like, "half" and 47% are kind of close?

There is video. I saw this first on Don Lemon, he said it was at a fundraiser.

 

[CygnusXS]

That's entirely different for a lot of reasons. Like, number one, it was on video. There's no soundbite of this, so far as I know. Which, while it may be stupid that this makes a difference, I think it does.

The second difference is that Romney's 47% comment confirmed a narrative about him. This...doesn't. In fact, it cements an argument about Trump. That's why so many people are like "Well, ya...." or "It should be higher than that."

There is polling to back that up. A majority of voters believe that Trump is either a racist or a bigot. A majority of people believe that he uses racially charged language. These same polls confirm that only the hardcore Trump diehards actually think Hillary is either a racist or a bigot. So.....I don't feel this has the same bite, outside the fact that, like, "half" and 47% are kind of close?

The bad thing for Romney was he literally called 47% of the entire country takers while she is calling out a segment of the people already supporting Trump



There's a video. Don Lemon played it. Luckily for her, she said it on a weekend. I sort of agree with royalan. I think she can clarify the comment, but she cannot back down from it.

I'm not saying there's merit in the comparison! Just that I wouldn't be surprised if a Trump surrogate brought it up and causes the whole conversation to be about why they aren't actually the same.

 

[smurfx]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/774451020768374784


Nick Merrill is the Clinton Campaign Spokes Person.

clinton's people need to go on tv and not relent against these both sides are the same political commentators. ask them to compare the mexican rapist comment to this since it is similar. ask them if they think they are similar and then bash them if they in anyway try and put blame on both sides.

 

[Bowdz]

Of course it is, but there's a nugget of truth here. And I feel like the fact that we liberals are often unable to grasp it is kind of a big problem! And I know I've spoken about this before.

We have people who feel that they are economically losing ground. They are ill equipped to change with the economic conditions that exist in the real world. They're having their worldviews challenged in ways they've never even remotely thought about before. Because, and I don't mean this in a mean way, they simply lack education on a lot of things.

Now, a lot of them are still racist, homophobic, sexist, Islamophobic bigots. Their views do not deserve consideration. Their pain, though, does. If they are afraid they won't be able to feed their families, pay for a medical bill or pay this month's rent....we need to address that. We need to address it specifically and directly. The problem, though, is that most of these people have decided that it's the browns/womens/blacks/gays/Chinese/whomever it is' fault for their problems.

IF we are losing this argument (and I think we are) we absolutely need to make a better one. Because, while we may not need them electorally, I feel like, just as a matter of policy, we have an obligation to make sure these people aren't getting left further and further behind.

There cannot be defense for their bigotry, but I feel like understanding the root cause is kind of important. But, ya, some of them are just alt-right and should be ignored and whatever.

I know this is a point in which our opinions are divergent. And that's cool!

Excellent post adam. I couldn't agree more.

Van Jones has made this same argument. Electorally, the Democratic party doesn't need to cater to these people. They are not party of the winning coalition. But they are fellow Americans who deserve to have their pain heard and their problems solved. We need to work to understand their ailments and to try to connect with them on a human level so that we can do whatever is necessary to help all struggling Americans succeed.

 

[User 463088]

I absolutely agree.

Don't worry, sis. I'll tell him in the morning about your idea.

Don't be like that. My man's not here, and you talking about Daddy Mook ain't right.

There is video. I saw this first on Don Lemon, he said it was at a fundraiser.

I mute CNN so I didn't see the video just read the article. Saw the video. It's actually good. Especially when you hear the whole statement.

 

[Iolo]

This was a clear unforced error by HRC.

 

[Diablos]

wait, what happened

 

[royalan]

Anecdotal but i'm high and don't give a fuck: Hillary needs to NOT walk this back.

She is getting HELLA support on social media for saying this. Even some Bernie or Busters I've been exposed to are approving it.

 

[Bowdz]

wait, what happened

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...-half-of-trump-supporters-fall-into-basket-of

 

[User 85168]

wait, what happened

Nothing at all.

 

[pigeon]

Of course it is, but there's a nugget of truth here. And I feel like the fact that we liberals are often unable to grasp it is kind of a big problem! And I know I've spoken about this before.

We have people who feel that they are economically losing ground. They are ill equipped to change with the economic conditions that exist in the real world. They're having their worldviews challenged in ways they've never even remotely thought about before. Because, and I don't mean this in a mean way, they simply lack education on a lot of things.

Now, a lot of them are still racist, homophobic, sexist, Islamophobic bigots. Their views do not deserve consideration. Their pain, though, does. If they are afraid they won't be able to feed their families, pay for a medical bill or pay this month's rent....we need to address that. We need to address it specifically and directly. The problem, though, is that most of these people have decided that it's the browns/womens/blacks/gays/Chinese/whomever it is' fault for their problems.

IF we are losing this argument (and I think we are) we absolutely need to make a better one. Because, while we may not need them electorally, I feel like, just as a matter of policy, we have an obligation to make sure these people aren't getting left further and further behind.

There cannot be defense for their bigotry, but I feel like understanding the root cause is kind of important. But, ya, some of them are just alt-right and should be ignored and whatever.

I know this is a point in which our opinions are divergent. And that's cool!

We don't disagree on this. I have explicitly been arguing since 2012 that we need to do something to help laborers who are disenfranchised by globalization, even if they are racists. I said as much last time we discussed this! I have some concerns that they hate government support so much that there may not be a straightforward way to help them, but that's, you know, a policy problem.

I am not sure I agree that we're losing the argument about racism. Isn't that what this election is about? And we're winning it. Nor do I think we need to make a different argument in order to make policy to help these people. We should just make good policy and govern well. Nobody has to be the loser.

What I disagree on is that it's reasonable to say that racist people have some kind of justification for being racist. As established before, Trump supporters aren't disproportionately poor or disproportionately laborers. They're just disproportionately terrible. The narrative that people are turning to racism because of economic anxiety is just false. There may be a bunch of economically anxious racists, but they were racist before that.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Random as hell, but I found a tweet that sums up something that's been eating me inside for years now.

Ron & Hermione getting together doesn't work because it's basically Lisa & Milhouse getting together.

It's especially bad in the movies

Ron is a little bitch like the entire series. Like wtf was his problem during goblet of fire. He just shit on Harry, for no reason.

There is no way Hermione would have liked Ron over Harry; the only reason she did was because the book said so.

Also Ron speaking parseltongue was so fucking stupid

 

[metalslimer]

This was a clear unforced error by HRC.

The more I think about it maybe it is, but I don't care anymore. This needed to be said by someone with some actual power. If it makes people uncomfortable, that's the whole point.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Finding a Trump supporter who thinks that Obama is an American Christian is like finding a needle that is 5 cm long in a stack of 4 cm needles.

 

[Suikoguy]

The more I think about it maybe it is, but I don't care anymore. This needed to be said by someone with some actual power.

It will probably do nothing, smart to include the half bit if you are going to go for a comment like that.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Pigeon is that you?

https://twitter.com/speechboy71

Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 16m16 minutes ago
Michael Cohen Retweeted Michael Cohen
We should be talking about this every day & making even clearer precisely what a vote for Trump meansMichael Cohen added,

Michael Cohen @speechboy71
I have so had it w/this campaign.The GOP candidate is clearly running on a nativist, xenophobic platform & somehow it's wrong to bring it up

Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 16m16 minutes ago
I have so had it w/this campaign.The GOP candidate is clearly running on a nativist, xenophobic platform & somehow it's wrong to bring it up

Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 26m26 minutes ago
... maybe someone can tell me if I'm supposed to feel sorry for the person I met a Trump rally wearing a "Lock Up The Bitch T-Shirt"

Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 28m28 minutes ago
... let's talk about how voting for Trump is a vote for nativism. Let's have that conversation.

Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 29m29 minutes ago
Michael Cohen Retweeted Jason Linkins
EVERYONE. EVERY REPORTER WHO HAS BEEN TO A TRUMP RALLY KNOWS THIS IS TRUE. EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM

Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 29m29 minutes ago
Because god forbid we should talk about how nativism, racial anxiety and fear of others drives Trump's support ...

Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 30m30 minutes ago
Let's spend 3 days talking abt the word "deplorables" rather than the 40% of Americans who support a candidate running on a racist platform

Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 35m35 minutes ago
Michael Cohen Retweeted Joan Walsh
Actually half seems generous since it's not as if Trump's racism and xenophobia is some kind of mysteryMichael Cohen added,
Joan Walsh @joanwalsh
@7im Really Tim? Yes. Half.

Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 37m37 minutes ago
Michael Cohen Retweeted Betsy Woodruff
But by all means let's not point out that these people are deporableMichael Cohen added,
Betsy Woodruff @woodruffbets
At a presser today, Alt Right leaders discussed what they refer to as "the Jewish question" http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...aders-we-aren-t-racist-we-just-hate-jews.html …

Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 40m40 minutes ago
but by all means let's ignore the racism that's driving support for Trump & pile on Clinton for pointing out what all of us know to be true

Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 44m44 minutes ago
And FTR Hillary Clinton is saying something about Trump supporters that every political reporter knows to be true

Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 46m46 minutes ago
... so why is pointing out Trump's support comes, in part, from people who are racist, xenophobes and misogynists considered controversial?

Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 48m48 minutes ago
... actually they are more than ok with it - they are voting for Trump with the full knowledge that he's a racist & a xenophobe

Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 48m48 minutes ago
... I know it's uncomfortable to criticize voters, but a lot of Americans are aware that Trump is a racist & a xenophobe & are ok with it
Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 49m49 minutes ago
Donald Trump is a racist, a xenophobe and a misogynist. This is obvious to anyone who has followed his campaign ...

Michael Cohen ‏@speechboy71 51m51 minutes ago
Michael Cohen Retweeted Ruby Cramer
Why is this controversial? Clinton gave a whole speech on how Trump is emboldening racists & xenophobes

 

[aspiegamer]

It would have been bad if she said half of Republicans in a blanket manner, but she specified Trump supporters. Personally cannot see why the campaign would need to back down from this. Not like there isn't an internet (and even TV surrogates, and campaign aides) full of receipts. And it's not even an unreasonable figure. Half of the roughly 40% of the vote he has in polls on average = 20%. Are 20% of likely voters (~13% of all Americans) racist and misogynistic as all holy hell? Fuck yes.

She shouldn't walk this back. It's bold, but accurate, and the sort of confident statement people want to hear out of her instead of just always being defensive. It's impossible to further piss off the people she's talking about, so there's little to lose by sticking with it.

 

[Iolo]

wait, what happened

A new musical just opened on Broadway, "Les Deplorables".

 

[Diablos]

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...-half-of-trump-supporters-fall-into-basket-of

It's basically true but there are some things a candidate should not say... this is one of them... I think this is going to hurt her in the long run

 

[smurfx]

Anecdotal but i'm high and don't give a fuck: Hillary needs to NOT walk this back.

She is getting HELLA support on social media for saying this. Even some Bernie or Busters I've been exposed to are approving it.

the comment certainly got me fired up.

 

[theultimo]

It's basically true but there are some things a candidate should not say... this is one of them... I think this is going to hurt her in the long run

I think the opposite. This might be the thing BoBs nees in solidarity.

 

[royalan]

Pigeon is that you?

https://twitter.com/speechboy71

 

[JesseEwiak]

The other difference is everybody either knows or is somebody who is a "maker" who got a tax refund. Kind of hard not too when 47% of people don't end up paying taxes.

OTOH, if you know somebody racist, either you agree with them and don't like Hillary in the 1st place or you're uncomfortable with them and deal with them because you have too.

Hillary needs to hit this hard - "If you think President Obama was born in Kenya, I don't want your vote. If you think Hispanic's are mostly illegal immigrants, I don't want your vote. If you think African Americans are inherently more violent, I don't want your vote." So on and so forth.

 

[metalslimer]

And for reference, all of the reporters who have been to a Donald Trump rally know this is true. I've been to a Trump rally, and it was like I had been transported to this horrible alternate universe, except I know that it represented a large swath of the country. There have certainly been toxic rallies before, but I may as well have been at a Klan meeting with the looks and comments I got.

 

[smurfx]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-of-donald-trump-supporters-think-hes-racist/

7% of trumps own supporters believe he is racist.

 

[JesseEwiak]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-of-donald-trump-supporters-think-hes-racist/

7% of trumps own supporters believe he is racist.

Are those the racists who know they're racist and believe Trump is one of their own, people who really on care about tax cuts, or both?

 

[BlastProcessing]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-of-donald-trump-supporters-think-hes-racist/

7% of trumps own supporters believe he is racist.

So Paul Ryan has 7% to keep him company. At least he's not lonely.

 

[RustyNails]

She should not back down. The racist, sexist, islamophobic paranoia in Trump supporters is mind numbingly insane. This is from 4 months ago. Pretty sure the numbers are higher today.

 

[Diablos]

I think the opposite. This might be the thing BoBs nees in solidarity.

BoBs aren't the only thing driving this election though.

Hillary cannot afford to drive away anyone else

 

[User 463088]

We don't disagree on this. I have explicitly been arguing since 2012 that we need to do something to help laborers who are disenfranchised by globalization, even if they are racists. I said as much last time we discussed this! I have some concerns that they hate government support so much that there may not be a straightforward way to help them, but that's, you know, a policy problem.

I am not sure I agree that we're losing the argument about racism. Isn't that what this election is about? And we're winning it. Nor do I think we need to make a different argument in order to make policy to help these people. We should just make good policy and govern well. Nobody has to be the loser.

What I disagree on is that it's reasonable to say that racist people have some kind of justification for being racist. As established before, Trump supporters aren't disproportionately poor or disproportionately laborers. They're just disproportionately terrible. The narrative that people are turning to racism because of economic anxiety is just false. There may be a bunch of economically anxious racists, but they were racist before that.

Cool, then we barely disagree at all. I'm glad we're basically on the same page.

When I mentioned the racism angle, I was specifically referring to those people who feel that "the brown people" are taking their jobs. This is probably a very small, very narrow group of the electorate over all. (They're probably just mostly racists on principle...) but I think enough of them do exist that we need to tell white people, specifically white males, that, no, African Americans/Latinos/gays/women are not taking your jobs from you. And we need to do that so they don't continue to stagnate and get left behind. We can actually do this without their permission, but if we can actually try and get them on board, it would be a hell of a lot better. I feel like this is very complex, and you're probably right in that economic anxiety is an excuse for their racism. But, let's see if we can't remove that excuse. Ya, they'll double down, probably, but I still think we owe it to ourselves to not leave people behind.

 

[Boke1879]

Are some really diablosing right now? I'm glad she did say it because it's truth. Dems need to stop pussy footing around the issue. There is a racist element in this country and they are a huge part of trumps demographic.

Who cares if the media feels uncomfortable with what she said. Media let's trump and his surrogates say all sorts of shit with no outrage. She can state some truths.

 

[Iolo]

Well, we should know shortly the way they're going with this when Hillary has her next press conference or plane gaggle.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

White journalists immediately getting offended at Hillary being authentic and honest after 25 years of calling her a inauthentic liar is pretty fucking rich.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

It's basically true but there are some things a candidate should not say... this is one of them... I think this is going to hurt her in the long run

Hurt her with who? Trump supporters? Racist, right leaning 'independents'? Again, they can prove her wrong by not supporting Donald "HE'S A MEXICAN" Trump.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Hurt her with who? Trump supporters? Racist, right leaning 'independents'? Again, they can prove her wrong by not supporting Donald "HE'S A MEXICAN" Trump.

It could hurt her in the media was very pro-Hillary for the last few days, but the media lives in the delusion that racism is gone so they'll criticize Hillary now and call it her "47% moment" for calling garbage people garbage.

White journalists are ridiculously politically correct.

 

[User 463088]

Like, tin foil hat time.

I don't think this was an accident. I don't think this was a slip. This was at a fundraiser, right? She rarely lets the press into her fundraisers. There was press there, correct? That's how this got out. Maybe this was on purpose.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

This is the hottest take of the night.

Joy Reid's bit on why birtherism is so offensive made me realize something. For summary, here's why birtherism is nefarious: it deliberately delegitimizes the presidency of the first African American president. For many people, 30 years in the future, they will look at a list of the faces of the presidency, point to the first black one, and say "that one doesn't count". He didn't earn the right to be president, he snuck into the country, he's a Muslim, whatever, it's all about making the first black president not count.

Well, the constant smearing of Hillary's physical and now mental health is exactly the same thing. We already know that Republicans 4 or 8 years from now will term her presidency a failure. But what is now on the table is the option to say she never had the chance to be a good president from the very beginning - that she was mentally and physically unqualified or incapable of being president as soon as she stepped into the room and therefore her presidency does not count. It delegitimizes the office she was elected to and the term she holds. It is birtherism all over again.

 

[whyamihere]

I don't think there's any way to tell how many Trump supporters are racists. So quantifying them is difficult. But yeah. Racists are a significant part of his base!

 

[CygnusXS]

It could hurt her in the media was very pro-Hillary for the last few days, but the media lives in the delusion that racism is gone so they'll criticize Hillary now and call it her "47% moment" for calling garbage people garbage.

White journalists are ridiculously politically correct.

Yeah this is why I'm not happy with the phrasing. It's too easy to turn into a giant time waste of journalistic circle-jerking.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

I don't think there's any way to tell how many Trump supporters are racists. So quantifying them is difficult. But yeah. Racists are a significant part of his base!

Racial resentment polling.

 

[CygnusXS]

This is the hottest take of the night.

Joy Reid's bit on why birtherism is so offensive made me realize something. For summary, here's why birtherism is nefarious: it deliberately delegitimizes the presidency of the first African American president. For many people, 30 years in the future, they will look at a list of the faces of the presidency, point to the first black one, and say "that one doesn't count". He didn't earn the right to be president, he snuck into the country, he's a Muslim, whatever, it's all about making the first black president not count.

Well, the constant smearing of Hillary's physical and now mental health is exactly the same thing. We already know that Republicans 4 or 8 years from now will term her presidency a failure. But what is now on the table is the option to say she never had the chance to be a good president from the very beginning - that she was mentally and physically unqualified or incapable of being president as soon as she stepped into the room and therefore her presidency does not count. It delegitimizes the office she was elected to and the term she holds. It is birtherism all over again.

This take has been sitting out long enough that it's actually just room temp.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

The media is so lazy and dedicated to "both sides" fuckery that they'll compare this to Romney, but IMO Clinton explained the situation nearly perfect. Maybe you could express some sympathy for certain segments of his support who are struggling and being taken advantage of by a charismatic, "strong" leader...or maybe not. A line has to be drawn in the sand. This isn't a normal election. Trump has made a lot of the worst segments of our society proudly come out the closet, and I think it's imperative that democrats and sensible republicans do everything they can to smash these people. The election has to be a blowout.

A lot of white people are deathly afraid of being called racist/bigoted. Even white people with major racial prejudices will throw a fit when accused of being racist. Racial guilt has always played a role in politics, behind the scenes in terms of how campaigns are waged. A lot of those suburban white women Trump is losing probably support the All Lives Matter movement, some might wonder why black people can say the n-word, they dislike Colin Kaepernick...and yet the overt, undeniable bigotry of Trump has scared them into Hillary Clinton's arms. White people in denial about race (which tbh describes most white people in America), who hold all types of questionable views yet feel Trump is the real racist...and they don't want anyone to think they could possibly support him.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I don't think there's any way to tell how many Trump supporters are racists. So quantifying them is difficult. But yeah. Racists are a significant part of his base!

Poll how many Trump supporters think that Obama is a Muslim or Kenyan-born.

This proportion is the estimate for what proportion of Trump supporters are racist.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

It could hurt her in the media was very pro-Hillary for the last few days, but the media lives in the delusion that racism is gone so they'll criticize Hillary now and call it her "47% moment" for calling garbage people garbage.

White journalists are ridiculously politically correct.

I mean, the media has been attacking Trump for his birtherism bullshit again, as a clear showing of racism on his part, and so if 65% of his supporters are also birthers as shown in polls... Yeah, the media should do their jobs.

 

[Grexeno]

Attacking the voters themselves seems like not a great idea.