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[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I remember when I put together an article saying "hey, you hate those Mexicans, right? Well guess what, climate change is going to wreck a lot of lives in Mexico and then those people will move to America."

Less explicitly racial (and I didn't imply that conservatives were racist) than that, but that was the basic gist.

Not very effective

 

[Tranqueris]

I checked out the basket hashtag. I really, really hate the alt right's tactic of making a fake account and saying "I'm a minority supporting insert cause here, am I awful too!?" To sort of muddy the water and make it seem like they're not white supremacists or women haters. Granted the tweet I saw could have belonged to a real person but this bullshit is such a common tactic at this point.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

The polls are pretty close to tied right now. In fact, he was leading in a couple, last I checked. If that third party and undecided vote just stays home on election day, and if turnout for blacks and latinos is as low as it always is, he could probably be president.

Presidential elections. How do they work?

 

[East Lake]

We have done lots of things somewhat similar to this without evoking explicit racism, yes. We have talking points from Reagan's Secretary of State about how climate change causes military risks (by possibly causing civil war due to resources becoming endangered by droughts or floods) to appeal to Neocons and... it hasn't worked well at all.

We're very well connected with Republican politicians at this point and they like us because we're nice people at least! We have always get meetings with them and... these meetings don't change anything policy wise, but at least we get meetings.

Mia Love has pretty pleasant and moderate people working with her in particular in Utah. Orrin Hatch not so much.

So if you had an argumentative technique from your newly hired PR guy, wouldn't it be immediately canceled out by Exxon lobbyists utilizing the same techniques?

 

[User 463088]

So, Hillary's increased her lead in the USC thingy.

But in it, Trump's support among African American voters is down to 2.7%. lol

 

[mo60]

So, Hillary's increased her lead in the USC thingy.

But in it, Trump's support among African American voters is down to 2.7%. lol

I wonder if trump will ever get below 1% of AA's in a national poll ever in this election?

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I really want post convention blow out polls again

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I thought reporters were not allowed in Clinton fundraisers. How did they hear this part?

Biggest issue is it focuses attention away from Trump and Clinton's new positive speeches.

 

[mo60]

I really want post convention blow out polls again

You will probably see post convention blow out polls eventually.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

So if you had an argumentative technique from your newly hired PR guy, wouldn't it be immediately canceled out by Exxon lobbyists utilizing the same techniques?

This could definitely happen. The idea is trying to stay ahead of the curve... Which is hard since Exxon and oil companies have a lot more money than volunteer organizations.

 

[User 463088]

I wonder if trump will ever get below 1% of AA's in a national poll ever in this election?

He did in PPP's last national.

I thought reporters were not allowed in Clinton fundraisers. How did they hear this part?

Biggest issue is it focuses attention away from Trump and Clinton's new positive speeches.

Exactly. This was intentional.

 

[Pixieking]

I thought reporters were not allowed in Clinton fundraisers. How did they hear this part?

Leak? The Cher speech was leaked due to a mobile-phone recording, but since there's been no specifics with this speech, it may have been leaked by an internal source as a way of shifting the conversation back onto Trump and his supporters - put them on the defensive.

 

[Joeytj]

Ok, so I go away for a while and apperently Hillary said something controversial about Trump supporters.

Just saw the video of the deprorables comment. While not as damaging as Romney's 47% (which, honestly, wasn't a deciding factor as many thought) it will diatract a bit IF Hillary backed away from it.

Which she wont. She did it in front of reporters and camera, obviously thought about before hand.

But it was a bit too strong. She shouldn't have said "half" maybe only "many". It's never good to insult general followers of a candidate, but again, she even says that herself "I'm grossly generalizing".

Romney's comments were damaging mostly because he didn't limit them to "Obama supporters", but to a full 47% of the population.

Still a headache though.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

In Chinese "88" sounds like "bye bye" whereas in English, "88" (with no other context) usually means "Heil Hitler." Just typing "88" as a goodbye is common online in China which... can cause deeply uncomfortable situations in English-speaking chat rooms.

Also in Chinese, "err" sounds basically like the n-word.

... Culture changes can be weird.

 

[User 463088]

http://news3lv.com/news/local/donal...rump-policy-could-lead-to-dreamer-deportation

Trump the Lesser kinda stepped in it.

"Based on what I'm hearing Astrid Silva does have reason for concern in that there's a possibility that your father down the line would seek to deport her?" asked Wagner.

"So, it's a possibility yeah. His policy has been that. You have to start the right way and everyone has to go through the same process. People who've done it and who've gone through that process legally, they shouldn't be penalized. And they shouldn't be thrown out of their country. And people who haven't gone about it the right way. Like I said, she's probably a great lady. Ok. I get it. But you have to do it right. We have to be able to figure out a way that benefits all. And is egalitarian to all."

Astrid Silva is more of an American, and has done more for the people in this country, than the Lesser could ever hope to achieve. Let's see how low those Latino numbers can go!

 

[East Lake]

This could definitely happen. The idea is trying to stay ahead of the curve... Which is hard since Exxon and oil companies have a lot more money than volunteer organizations.

What type of things have you done that failed?

 

[Joeytj]

Joy Reid is saying this might indeed hurt Hillary. She didn't say she was wrong, but that it could turn into her 47% remark.

Although that is to be seen. She wasn't caught doing it in secret, it was at a televised event.

But it's also never good to "punch" down. Although she also didn't blame the rest of his supporters? I don't know, I should go to sleep now. I definitely think the way she defends her comments matter.

If she does end up loosing because of this (she won't lose Dem votes of course or some indies, but she will alienate many suburban whites), well...

Gosh, I won't be able to sleep now. I wish I never checked what was going on in the campaign before going to bed.

 

[WoodWERD]

In Chinese "88" sounds like "bye bye" whereas in English, "88" (with no other context) usually means "Heil Hitler." Just typing "88" as a goodbye is common online in China which... can cause deeply uncomfortable situations in English-speaking chat rooms.

...I live in China and have never seen this. The word for 8 is Bā not Bái.

 

[Tranqueris]

Joy Reid is saying this might indeed hurt Hillary. She didn't say she was wrong, but that it could turn into her 47% remark.

Although that is to be seen. She wasn't caught doing it in secret, it was at a televised event.

But it's also never good to "punch" down. Although she also didn't blame the rest of his supporters? I don't know, I should go to sleep now. I definitely think the way she defends her comments matter.

If she does end up loosing because of this (she won't lose Dem votes of course or some indies, but she will alienate many suburban whites), well...

Gosh, I won't be able to sleep now. I wish I never checked what was going on in the campaign before going to bed.

I'd say that the outcome on this depends on whether or not the media is finally getting their shit together. It's definitely a risk but if they play the second part of the comment she made and then basically say "yeah she's right because of this evidence" then maybe. Anyway I think we've seen that Trump is absolutely horrible at pouncing on this stuff so he'll probably end up doing something horrible today that takes attention away from it.

Also holy shit I didn't know Joy Reid was 47, I thought she was a 30 something like Chris Hayes.

 

[East Lake]

Joy Reid is saying this might indeed hurt Hillary. She didn't say she was wrong, but that it could turn into her 47% remark.

Although that is to be seen. She wasn't caught doing it in secret, it was at a televised event.

But it's also never good to "punch" down. Alrhought ahe also didn't blame the rest of his supporters? I don't know, I should go to sleep now.

If she does end up loosing because of this (she won't lose Dem votes of course or some indies, but she will alienate many suburban whites), well...

Gosh, I won't be able to sleep now. I wish I never checked what was going on in the campaign before going to bed.

It's going to be fine. Everybody calls Trump a racist and now she's saying some Trump supporters are racists. The media might cover this for a few seconds until Trump puts his foot in his mouth again.

 

[Metaphoreus]

Joy Reid is saying this might indeed hurt Hillary. She didn't say she was wrong, but that it could turn into her 47% remark.

Although that is to be seen. She wasn't caught doing it in secret, it was at a televised event.

But it's also never good to "punch" down. Although she also didn't blame the rest of his supporters? I don't know, I should go to sleep now. I definitely think the way she defends her comments matter.

If she does end up loosing because of this (she won't lose Dem votes of course or some indies, but she will alienate many suburban whites), well...

Gosh, I won't be able to sleep now. I wish I never checked what was going on in the campaign before going to bed.

I don't think this story will have legs. It's not as concrete a claim as Romney's 47% comment, and she didn't explicitly write off the people she was disparaging, like Romney did. Any given Trump supporter could actually agree with the statement, but also believe that he or she does not belong to the half of supporters that Clinton's talking about.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

...I live in China and have never seen this. The word for 8 is Bā not Bái.

My girlfriend's friends are in southeastern China, near NK. She speaks Mandarin and says that 88 sounds like "bye bye" and that her friends use "88" to say goodbye.

IDK, I know two phrases in Mandarin.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Watching the Hardball segment now http://www.msnbc.com/hardball/watch/has-donald-trump-disavowed-birtherism-761760835833

The slackjawed look on Jack Kingston's face as Joy Politifacts him is just priceless.

"Often. Often."

 

[nature boy]

People are Diablosing over "basket of deplorables"?

Megyn Kelly ‏@megynkelly 9h9 hours ago
.@krauthammer on #Trump & presidential debates: “The debate forum is one about personality & comfort. It’s not about policy.” #KellyFile

Megyn Kelly ‏@megynkelly 9h9 hours ago
.@krauthammer: "[HRC] has set the bar so low for Trump that if he just shows up [@ debate] not foaming at the mouth...he wins automatically"

FUCK YOU KRAUTHAMMER

 

[thebloo]

Not just that.

But, for the next few days (if the media bites and they will because reasons) every Hillary surrogate can go on teevee and say "She was referring to David Duke..." "She was referring to Breitbart..." "She was referring to XYZ" and get those names back out there again.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Well if this was done strategically we will know soon like Adam said.

I am not that sure it was done as a strategy.

 

[nature boy]

Just bring in Obama, make him bait Trump and watch the fireworks.

 

[Souldriver]

She should double down on whatever she said, and quote a whole bunch of horrible stuff Trump has said plus all the outrageous stuff his supporters believe according to the polls, and end with "now you tell me that's not problematic...".

She should stop trying to tip toe around every controversy and just be more frank and blatant in her statements and actions. The press will go after her for literally the stupidest little shit and details anyway, why not make it worth it.

Spoiler

Unless off course I'm wrong, and tiptoeing around and apologizing for everything is the way to get anywhere as a woman in politics.

 

[TestOfTide]

People are Diablosing over "basket of deplorables"?



FUCK YOU KRAUTHAMMER

I wouldn't be so sure, SourKraut. Media is now afraid of looking like they are going easy on Trump, and I see no reason for the fear to not affect how they cover the debates.

With regards to the "basket of deplorables" comment, I think Hillary should back it up by bringing up:

- The Alt-Right some more and how they have become such a big part of Trump support

- POLLS POLLS POLLS: Bring up every poll that shows at least half of Trump supporters being birthers, being against gay marriage, thinking we should deport ALL undocumented immigrants, etc.

- The fact that by not taking back their support of Trump as a result of his most deplorable comments, most of his supporters are at least complicit to that bigotry

- Saying that AT WORST she merely exaggerated the portion of Trump supporters when saying "half" (even though she didn't in truth)

Speaking of polls, I want the following (and more) to be polled about Trump supporters:

- How many of them are birthers

- How many of them approve of MLK Jr and how many of them of approve of Robert E Lee (basically I want a national version of that Virginia poll)

- How many of them want ALL undocumented immigrants deported

 

[Ecotic]

The basket comments can be mitigated by pointing to David Duke and friends, but not turned into a positive. I hope it just doesn't get much airtime today and goes away.

 

[Diablos]

I'm not sure she should have said it, at least not so strongly. Insulting working class people when you're campaigning on being stronger together to support the working class is not the best look. Yes, I agree with what she said. But it may come off as being way too disparaging to voters. I don't know. She took a huge risk when she can't really afford to, the polls are way too close.

 

[TestOfTide]

The basket comments can be mitigated by pointing to David Duke and friends, but not turned into a positive. I hope it just doesn't get much airtime today and goes away.

As long as she says "I'm not talking about ALL Trump supporters, just the half that (insert poll that shows something deplorable about at least half of Trump supporters)" she won't get too much heat for it.

I'm not sure she should have said it, at least not so strongly. Insulting working class people when you're campaigning on being stronger together to support the working class is not the best look. Yes, I agree with what she said. But it may come off as being way too disparaging to voters. I don't know. She took a huge risk when she can't really afford to, the polls are way too close.

But statistically speaking, Trump supporters are NOT working class voters. They actually make significantly more than the average voter.

 

[nature boy]

The basket comments can be mitigated by pointing to David Duke and friends, but not turned into a positive. I hope it just doesn't get much airtime today and goes away.

Today it will gain traction, tomorrow is 9/11, but Monday it will be back.

 

[TestOfTide]

Today it will gain traction, tomorrow is 9/11, but Monday it will be back.

Nah. Monday the media will be distracted by the inevitable stupid outrage against the Seahawks.

 

[metalslimer]

The only bad part about bringing up the polls is that unfortunately there a sizable number of Democrats who hold some awful beliefs. This could force her to answer for some of her own supporters beliefs.

 

[nature boy]

Nah. Monday the media will be distracted by the inevitable stupid outrage against the Seahawks.

You know Fox is going to pound on this.

The Trump surrogates are going to keep this on the radar.

This is not going away, but the campaign needs to make the most out of it.

 

[Pixieking]

People seem to be stressing about the basket quote... As long as it's not taken out of context and soundbite'd by mainstream media, she wins.

“He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric,” Clinton said. “Now, some of those folks — they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America.”

“That other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change,” Clinton said. “It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different.

“They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead end,” Clinton said. “Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.”

It's a good message, I think. She's already aimed at Republican officials, lawmakers and military saying Trump isn't the way to go. Now she's doing the same with the Average Joe - empathizing with how they're feeling, but letting them know that they're going to get lost in the pot with the racists and birthers if they stay with Trump. As long as she doesn't back-down, she can argue it. Trump has already said that he and his followers aren't racist, but it's obvious that a lot of them are. She needs to make it blatant that the core of Trump's campaign is divisive, racist and sexist, and that people who aren't like that don't need to vote Trump to get their voices heard.

 

[Y2Kev]

I guess I don't see how this is comparable to the 47% comment. Romney was bashing poor people and minorities, two groups he needed to do well (or better) with to win. Hillary is bashing racists and alt right people. Who is going to read her comment that was going to vote for her and decide not to? It just seems totally like people wanting to diablos (AGAIN).

 

[thebloo]

"Hillary should not play defense. Trump needs to be destroyed."
"I think she went in too hard."

Heh. I get why people are a bit scared, but she hasn't said anything that is not believable. It's been the theme of the election that Trump is horrible and supported by horrible people.

Now some of them, I assume, are good people.

 

[TestOfTide]

The only bad part about bringing up the polls is that unfortunately there a sizable number of Democrats who hold some awful beliefs. This could force her to answer for some of her own supporters beliefs.

"I'm not saying that all of my supporters are perfect. I'm just bringing up how ridiculous it is that over half of Trump supporters think [insert statistically proven thing about his supporters here]."

"When Romney said what he said, he went so far as to use a broad stroke on 47% of the population. Last I checked I didn't even say it was ALL Trump supporters."

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

People seem to be stressing about the basket quote... As long as it's not taken out of context and soundbite'd by mainstream media, she wins.



It's a good message, I think. She's already aimed at Republican officials, lawmakers and military saying Trump isn't the way to go. Now she's doing the same with the Average Joe - empathizing with how they're feeling, but letting them know that they're going to get lost in the pot with the racists and birthers if they stay with Trump. As long as she doesn't back-down, she can argue it. Trump has already said that he and his followers aren't racist, but it's obvious that a lot of them are. She needs to make it blatant that the core of Trump's campaign is divisive, racist and sexist, and that people who aren't like that don't need to vote Trump to get their voices heard.

she shouldn't have said half

 

[Maxim726X]

Well if this was done strategically we will know soon like Adam said.

I am not that sure it was done as a strategy.

Of course it wasn't.

She fucked up. Only time will tell if this sticks.

 

[Diablos]

But statistically speaking, Trump supporters are NOT working class voters. They actually make significantly more than the average voter.

Eh. She said half. Enough of those people are working class but exhibit some of the... qualities she talked about. That's enough to make it count and possibly backfire on her. But most importantly it looks like she's disparaging them when she's also trying to run as a Pres who will help the working class. Many of these people are veterans, disabled in some capacity etc. She took a huge risk and could have framed the statement better

It's a sad day when calling out deplorable people in the Trump tent who are part of the alt right is less acceptable politically than unjustly calling an immigrant a rapist or being disrespectful towards women or a dead soldier etc. That's the state of the race, and there seems to be a double standard. Hillary being held to the flames while Trump can just get away with it. Time is running out, we have little time to account for unforced errors and rebound from them.

 

[nature boy]

Of course it wasn't.

She fucked up. Only time will tell if this sticks.

It's been reported that it's not the first time she's used the expression in fundraisers.

 

[Pixieking]

she shouldn't have said half

Mmmm, it works both ways, I think. Yeah, saying "half" is bad, because people can say she's exaggerating, or punching-down. But saying "some" or "a minority" or "a few" minimizes it. People need to be shocked into asking themselves who they're aligning with, and you can't do that if you minimize the number - "Oh, it's only a few who are racists and birthers... It's fine."

It's a dangerous game, but also clever.

 

[metalslimer]

Well if msnbc is any indication they aren't going to play the second half of that comment.

 

[teruterubozu]

Mmmm, it works both ways, I think. Yeah, saying "half" is bad, because people can say she's exaggerating, or punching-down. But saying "some" or "a minority" or "a few" minimizes it. People need to be shocked into asking themselves who they're aligning with, and you can't do that if you minimize the number - "Oh, it's only a few who are racists and birthers... It's fine."

It's a dangerous game, but also clever.

But if you're maybe aligning with Trump why would Clinton change your mind? This "strategy" makes no sense. It was clearly a rah-rah moment.

 

[TestOfTide]

Of course it wasn't.

She fucked up. Only time will tell if this sticks.

The ONLY real problem I could see is if this gets spun as "Clinton disparages many veterans".

Other than that I think that even worst case she still can just say "I didn't mean literally 50% but rather the fact that there seem to be 2 kinds of Trump supporters: Those that are struggling & desperate for a change in the system and those that seem to agree with the things Trump has said about [insert deplorable Trump statement here]."

It's clearly just more of the strategy Obama and Hillary have done before where they separate Trump and his worst supporters from the more classical conservative types.

But if you're maybe aligning with Trump why would Clinton change your mind? This "strategy" makes no sense. It was clearly a rah-rah moment.

Well that's why I hope to see Clintons best stumpers say similar things.

The trick is to separate Trump and his worst supporters from moderate conservatism. And there is a reason you have seen Clinton, Obama, and a few others create this distinction since the DNC. It's clearly something that they tested and found works in creating a wedge between moderates and Trump.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Random as hell, but I found a tweet that sums up something that's been eating me inside for years now.

Ron & Hermione getting together doesn't work because it's basically Lisa & Milhouse getting together.

I always found it completely plausible myself, and the groundwork is laid very early on.

 

[Pixieking]

But if you're maybe aligning with Trump why would Clinton change your mind? This "strategy" makes no sense. It was clearly a rah-rah moment.

Trump's campaign efforts recently have been aimed at the people who don't think they're racist. The outreach to the African-American churches and Latinos, for instance, as a way of saying "I like black people... See, I've spoken at a congregation of them, and they haven't taken offense." (Politico article about a rally of mostly whites where he talked about black voters here)

Trump is down with white college-educated men and women who are afraid of his racism, so Clinton is targeting that same group by saying you don't have to lump yourself in with a bunch of racists to be heard.