Support NeoGAF

[thebloo]

This isn't the killer issue y'all want it to be.

I think it is.

But you don't need to press it. Let's compare it to the Michael Richards incident. You didn't need to go shouting at the crowds about what he did. It's out there, everybody knows about it. Going down in the mud just creates a lot of whataboutism based on funky sources (see OT thread).

The twitter declaration is enough. It's direct, commanding and optimistic. It's all she needs to say and carry it into "now let's get to work on finishing what we started."

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Why is it a killer issue, though? Like, for this to be important, it needs to either get people who are currently voting Trump to either vote Clinton or not vote, or get people who are currently not voting to vote Clinton. How does focusing on this change *any* of those things?

Why would people currently voting Trump, who has been a birther for a very long time and a high profile one, decide to vote Clinton because he said that he isn't actually a birther? She isn't one either!

Why would people currently voting Trump decide not to vote because of this? It's so obviously and patently insincere they all still know he's a birther. It doesn't kill enthusiasm for him. Many of these people thrive on liberal disgust. They welcome it. Trump being attacked on this issue enthuses them, it doesn't dissuade them.

Does Trump being shit on the birther issue persuade non-voters to vote Clinton? No! As we've seen time and time again in this race, Trump being bad doesn't enthuse people to vote Clinton. Clinton has to enthuse people to vote Clinton.

There are no gains in going after this. Obama knows that because he's really good at this sort of thing. He's ignored it, he knows giving Trump oxygen is the fastest way to a beating. Clinton needs to do the same. Ignore it completely. No attention. Go and talk about her policies, prominently, in a media format young people or minorities are likely to see. Much better use of time and resources.

There are too many people in this thread treating this election like it actually has swing voters who are persuaded by these things. Right now, there are less swing voters than there are Johnson voters. There's about as many as Stein voters when she has a good poll. This isn't about persuading soccer moms who is the competent and professional candidate. It's about rallying the base. Clinton needs to start thinking before she does anything: who is this actually aimed at? What is the point of me making this attack? Trump says stupid stuff all the time. It's his default state of being. It's not really hurting him.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Morning Joe says Trump might say Obama was born in the USA today !

That better not end the matter

 

[nature boy]

So how's the bedwetting?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

So how's the bedwetting?

It's only walking bedwetting, PoliGAF will be fine after a few days.

 

[Diablos]

Gimme the NBC/WSJ poll.

Naaaaaooowww

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Gimme the NBC/WSJ poll.

You should mentally prepare yourselves for a bad poll

 

[thefro]

Why is it a killer issue, though? Like, for this to be important, it needs to either get people who are currently voting Trump to either vote Clinton or not vote, or get people who are currently not voting to vote Clinton. How does focusing on this change *any* of those things?

Trump's caught in a dilemma on the birther thing:

Either he believed a conspiracy theory for five years after it was disproven (and ergo, he's unfit to be President because he ignores the facts)

OR he blatantly lied to the american people for five years

Just a "Well Donald, you either believed a disproven conspiracy theory for years or you lied to the american people for years" as a response if the ? comes up in the debates boxes him in.

 

[FloydtheFathead]

It's only walking bedwetting, PoliGAF will be fine after a few days.

Is the bed superglued to us or something?

 

[cartoon_soldier]

There is no greater way to galvanize Obama coalition than pointing to bring out Trump's birtherism and racism.

Deplorable thing was good but Clinton health made everybody forget that unfortunately.

Don't make the question, is Trump willing to say Obama is born in the US. Ask if Trump is willing to apologize to Obama for questioning his birthplace long after the certificate was released.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Trump's caught in a dilemma on the birther thing:

Either he believed a conspiracy theory for five years after it was disproven (and ergo, he's unfit to be President because he ignores the facts)

OR he blatantly lied to the american people for five years

Just a "Well Donald, you either believed a disproven conspiracy theory for years or you lied to the american people for years" as a response if the ? comes up in the debates boxes him in.

That's not how this works. Trump, right now, is barely behind Clinton in the polls. That had birtherism already cooked in. Like, people know he was a birther; they were still voting for him. Now he's said he's not a birther, either a) they think "clever ol' Donald pulling one over on the lib'rul media", and do nothing, or b) go "aww, Trump isn't a birther after all... but neither is Clinton, so I'm still voting Trump". There is no c) "what?! Trump lied about birtherism? Golly gosh, that rattles my jimmies so much I'm voting Clinton!".

Trump's response will just be something like "I am truth-teller. I tell the truth. Truth is important to me. It isn't important to Crooked Clinton. So I had to know. I had to definitely know, I had to be sure. That meant checking all the facts. All of them." and whatever Clinton is trying to push will just slide right off. That's how Trump works. That's how he's worked the entire cycle. Clinton can't keep falling for it again and again. She's behind in Florida now, most likely. The current strategy is not working.

I mean obviously time will tell, but my reckoning is Trump will being the same or better in the polls by the end of this week as he is right now. This will have no impact.

 

[Plinko]

There is no greater way to galvanize Obama coalition than pointing to bring out Trump's birtherism and racism.

Deplorable thing was good but Clinton health made everybody forget that unfortunately.

Don't make the question, is Trump willing to say Obama is born in the US. Ask if Trump is willing to apologize to Obama for questioning his birthplace long after the certificate was released.

A thousand times this. Making the man admit he was wrong and apologize is a huge trap for him.

Focusing on his lying is doing nothing, because we don't have media who will fact check and spell it out for the viewer.

Focusing on the fact that he's an egotistical douchey jerk, though? That can work. Things like the "Uses foundational charity money to buy a giant painting of himself" stuff.

 

[PBY]

This birthed thing is nothing

It's not moving any needle, it's an old issue, and Trump is saying the right-ish things.


Clinton would do well to not focus on this.

 

[Rebel Leader]

This birthed thing is nothing

It's not moving any needle, it's an old issue, and Trump is saying the right-ish things.


Clinton would do well to not focus on this.

She will if the question is in the debates

 

[PBY]

She will if the question is in the debates

Sure and that's fine

But overall it's another issue that leans more into "vote for me because I'm not Trump" as opposed to affirmatively setting forth reasons why people should want to vote for her. That line of thinking only works if Trump is in meltdown mode.

.02$

 

[Plinko]

If the media isn't going to bother fact-checking, I want to see some blatantly direct attacks from Clinton. "Trump stole charity money" works really well. I'm sick and tired of the democrats playing the, "Well, we'll just kindly present the facts to the American people and let them decide!" That clearly isn't working with today's voters. It's time to play a little dirty. Stop being elitist.

 

[dwuuu]

It's official, Trump will finally, make an announcement today on Obama's birth in Florida !

 

[Slayven]

This birthed thing is nothing

It's not moving any needle, it's an old issue, and Trump is saying the right-ish things.


Clinton would do well to not focus on this.

Pretty much he is not going to change anybody's mind. It's just an issue because the news lets him lie and doesn't push him on it

 

[Diablos]

Yep. Dominating the cycle today. No one wants to spend much time talking about Hillary's speech last night. All about The Donald. For what? Stating common knowledge to his lemmings.

 

[Plinko]

The thing that really worries me is Hillary's campaign team is being outplayed again. It has been consistent for the past two months. Blame the media all you want, but if you're campaign "experts," it's YOUR job to get her in the news and get those headlines. They absolutely haven't done it. Treating the press like garbage (at least their perception) hasn't been a wise idea from the beginning.

Perhaps a change is necessary at this point.

 

[Slayven]

Yep. Dominating the cycle today. No one wants to spend much time talking about Hillary's speech last night. All about The Donald. For what? Stating common knowledge to his lemmings.

Flip side being reminding people he was number one championing that shit

 

[Maxim726X]

Flip side being reminding people he was number one championing that shit

Are you sure that will happen, as he gets away with that bullshit declaration without the media holding his feet to the fire?

 

[Diablos]

Flip side being reminding people he was number one championing that shit

He's blaming Hillary for it which baits her into trying to call him out over it which is a waste of time.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

He's blaming Hillary for it which baits her into trying to call him out over it which is a waste of time.

Correct.

 

[bangbang i'm a timpani]

The thing that really worries me is Hillary's campaign team is being outplayed again. It has been consistent for the past two months. Blame the media all you want, but if you're campaign "experts," it's YOUR job to get her in the news and get those headlines. They absolutely haven't done it. Treating the press like garbage (at least their perception) hasn't been a wise idea from the beginning.

Perhaps a change is necessary at this point.

she's a terrible candidate and they really have nothing to work with

 

[Slayven]

Are you sure that will happen, as he gets away with that bullshit declaration without the media holding his feet to the fire?

I look at it by who he is trying to appeal ot, black voters. And i bet money they aren't buying it

 

[User 463088]

Y'all are starting early today, I see.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Hillary putting the fear of Nate Silver into us in her fundraising emails now.

(protip: start worrying when the fundraising emails use positive reinforcement instead of negative)

 

[PBY]

Y'all are starting early today, I see.

Eh I don't think anyone's super freaked. Just annoyed that it's like the nth day in a row now that Trump is dominating the news and controlling the narrative.

 

[Slayven]

Bah i just want this over with good or bad. I think i need to take my own advice and stop reading so much of this bullshit. I don't know how you guys do it.

 

[MIMIC]

Bernie stanning for Hillary on CNN right now (and blasting CNN at the same time)

 

[Maxim726X]

Bah i just want this over with good or bad. I think i need to take my own advice and stop reading so much of this bullshit. I don't know how you guys do it.

Well, that's just it- the 'bad' option could potentially be the worst thing to ever happen to this country.

So that's enough reason to worry for me.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Sure and that's fine

But overall it's another issue that leans more into "vote for me because I'm not Trump" as opposed to affirmatively setting forth reasons why people should want to vote for her. That line of thinking only works if Trump is in meltdown mode.

.02$

Your 2 cents are worth less than the money it's printed on =D

 

[Slayven]

Well, that's just it- the 'bad' option could potentially be the worst thing to ever happen to this country.

So that's enough reason to worry for me.

I know, just the stress of not knowing. That my future and others hinges on half the country not being fuckwits. Hope can only do so much

 

[nature boy]

https://twitter.com/SopanDeb/status/776754354481205248

"keep the suspense"

Media played like a fiddle.

 

[Diablos]

https://twitter.com/SopanDeb/status/776754354481205248

"keep the suspense"

Media played like a fiddle.

Yep. It's almost like they forgot Hillary made an appearance last night

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Less so than the actual birtherism stuff, Hillary's team needs to push the blatant lies in the statement and Trump's unwillingness to apologize to Obama.

Hillary actually polls lower than Trump on honesty, which is nuts, but it's been consistently like that. So going from the angle of him being a chronic liar and spouting nonsense might help.

Forcing Trump to apologize to Obama also humiliates him.

And I think this entire thing will move college educated whites back to Hillary a bit.

 

[Dierce]

Yep. It's almost like they forgot Hillary made an appearance last night

This was their idea all along. And once orange turd finally admits to Obama being born in the US the media will commend himm. This is hopeless.

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

https://twitter.com/SopanDeb/status/776754354481205248

"keep the suspense"

Media played like a fiddle.

It sounds like it'll be a rehash of the hateful Miller statement

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Y'all are starting early today, I see.

It really is silly. Trump is losing. The only thing that helps Trump is when Hillary has a negative news cycle. That's been consistent this entire race.

So at worst, this doesn't do anything (and Trump loses) or it helps Hillary (and Trump still loses)

Hillary ticks up slowly just by being out, making speeches and appearing around. This already happened last week, but her illness stopped the shift abruptly.

I don't recall Obama ever being asked to SLAM Romney on something and people moaning about how terrible of a candidate he was because he didn't focus on "x" story of the day about Romney. And that race was a hell of a lot closer than this one ever will be.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

This was their idea all along. And once orange turd finally admits to Obama being born in the US the media will commend himm. This is hopeless.

But Clinton campaign is also dumb not putting her on the morning show to push the message that Trump has to apologize for questioning the legitimacy of America's first AA President. When you just keep the cycle open for Trump he will drive it.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Y'all are starting early today, I see.

It's easy to start early when you never stopped. I took an hour break to watch Drag Race last night then had to get back to the grind. Another day, another dour!

 

[balladofwindfishes]

But Clinton campaign is also dumb not putting her on the morning show to push the message that Trump has to apologize for questioning the legitimacy of America's first AA President. When you just keep the cycle open for Trump he will drive it.

Obama or someone who isn't Hillary needs to push the apology.

Otherwise the conversation goes like this

"Apologize to Obama!"
"But it was your supporters who started the birther movement"
"..."

How does she even respond to that? As far as I remember, she also never distanced herself from them, she just sort of let them exist, thinking it was helping her.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...my-stupid.html?mid=twitter_dailyintelligencer

Something I also feel Clinton campaign has done a shit job on. Attack Trump's economic policies.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Obama or someone who isn't Hillary needs to push the apology.

Otherwise the conversation goes like this

"Apologize to Obama!"
"But it was your supporters who started the birther movement"
"..."

How does she even respond to that? As far as I remember, she also never distanced herself from them, she just sort of let them exist, thinking it was helping her.

Anyone from Clinton campaign can do that. Make it Tim Kaine, make it John Lewis.

Actually, make it John Lewis. But they already missed the opportunity so it doesn't matter.

And her supporters doesn't matter. She can disavow it, point out how much she backed Obama in 2008 and point out that Trump's campaign last week couldn't even call David Duke deplorable.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Anyone from Clinton campaign can do that. Make it Tim Kaine, make it John Lewis.

Actually, make it John Lewis. But they already missed the opportunity so it doesn't matter.

I think attacking the middle paragraph is the better situation. Pointing out how he didn't at all get Obama to show his birth certificate, and that he's taking credit, yet again, for something he had no hand in. And then go in about 9-11 and the other stuff he claims he helped that he didn't do anything for. And that he didn't stop being a birther in 2011, that's just an outright lie.

Then it doesn't tie back into Hillary's supporters starting the movement, and is an attack on Trump, directly.

The middle paragraph, to me, is the really damning one, because it makes Obama look weak and at Trump's beck and call. That needs to be addressed.

 

[Wilsongt]

Fox was unsurprisingly quiet about that shitty press release last night, and instead chose to focus on Trump's hair moment while Geraldo got creepy uncle saying the female host could touch his hair anytime.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Omg this thread this morning freaking out about Trump "owning the cycle"

He owned the curiel and Khan cycle. Owning a cycle about you being a racist isn't good.

 

[Piecake]

Some conservatives are hard at work spreading conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton’s health in an attempt to disqualify her from seeking higher office. Video footage of the Democratic nominee stumbling as she abruptly departed a September 11th memorial on Sunday, combined with news that she had contracted pneumonia, has fueled rumors on the right that Clinton may be concealing a far worse medical condition. But it’s not just conservatives indulging in wild speculation. At least some die-hard supporters of Bernie Sanders are echoing, and in some cases amplifying, unproven claims that Clinton may be covering up serious health problems.

For a contingent of Sanders supporters who remain convinced the primary was rigged and distrust the media and the Democratic establishment, it isn’t much of a leap to believe Clinton has been dishonest about her health. Some have even raised the possibility that she’s gone to great lengths to conceal the truth: In a video posted to Facebook on Monday that has been viewed 11,000 times, Sanders supporter Adryenn Ashley suggests that Clinton may have used a body double after leaving the memorial to conceal health problems. “I think she’s way, way, way, sicker than just pneumonia,” Ashley says in the video.

The possibility of a cover-up even seems to have kept some Sanders supporters’ hopes alive that he could get back in the race. “This does NOT look like heat exhaustion to me,” a Reddit user recently commented in response to video showing Clinton leaving the September 11 memorial. “It looks like she has a serious neurological disease; maybe she was having a stroke, maybe she has MS. Whatever it is, we the people need to know. SOON! Bernie must replace her, NOT Tim Kaine or Joe Biden!”

How Bernie Sanders Die-Hards Echo Clinton Conspiracy Theories (The Atlantic)

Bernie soon

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Omg this thread this morning freaking out about Trump "owning the cycle"

He owned the curiel and Khan cycle. Owning a cycle about you being a racist isn't good.

Clinton campaign needs to be more agile, simple fact. Trump will own the cycle regardless, he is right now owning it on his terms is the problem.

Bring up all his statements and twitter messages. Like implying Obama killed the doctor who certified his health. Like saying Obama spent 4 million dollars to hide his passport or something.