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PoliGAF 2016 |OT10| Jill Stein Inflatable Love Doll

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T

TumblingHippo

Member
But if Clinton just calls this birther thing out as a thing of bigotry, isn't that the same things she did before (aka won't impact anything and just harden the racists further)?

I hate that it's even a thing. Call out something as racist just makes racists more fired up to support their guy. That's why it feels more like the only winning move is to excite the base rather than scare it.

I'm pretty certain the base is scared plenty already.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Spoiled Milk said:
I still don't know wtf happened yesterday, blast processing just threw a bunch of hilarious gifs at me
Click to expand...

Hillary came out with full force yesterday after being sick, the media was talking about how she was back, and well rested and full of energy. She held a rally and a press conference and was out and about all day campaigning and life was good. She coughed once and was visibly annoyed at having to answer questions about being sick for 15 minutes. But overall, she was doing great.

Some polls came out showing her cratering in Iowa and Ohio and losing ground in Florida and Michigan because enthusiasm for Hillary is way down after she got sick. Everyone lost their minds and this thread was impossible to read. And some other polls came out showing her doing surprisingly well in Georgia and Texas, but who cares about those, right?

Early voting for Democrats is up by a good amount in North Carolina.

Trump gave an interview where he had no answer for the birtherism question. A few hours later, he puts out a ridiculous letter from his campaign full of lies and dictator-esque language and the media starts ripping into him. He successfully turned what was his best week yet, into a disaster. This thread panicked for reasons unknown to mankind.

Also Al Gore is going to campaign for Hillary

I think yesterday was the single most interesting day of the entire election. This thread was something to behold, and even the media seemed confused as to what the heck they should even cover.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Joe Shlabotnik said:
This is a contradiction in terms though--it's not "idealism tied to action", it's practical incrementalism. It's the antithesis of his whole campaign. Or at least he sure played it that way. I mean I probably agree more with Sanders idealistically but "practical incrementalism" is why I supported Clinton this whole time!

I agree it'd be great if he could actually walk this line but he wouldn't have run in the first place if he could.
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I don't think so. I mean, first, I think 'practical' incrementalism is not at all an antithesis to Sanders. Sanders thought that Clinton's incrementalism was impractical, in that it was much slower than could have been done - I'm inclined to agree. He ran on that basis. Nevertheless, when you have the chance to take even slow progress, that's better than nothing. And he can stump for Clinton on that basis. That's a pretty easy line to give, because he probably think it is true. I know I certainly do.
 
Z

Zukkoyaki

Member
My optimistic side is hoping all this birther stuff will awaken the Obama coalition. Barry himself is already going to be campaigning most of October.
 
T

Teggy

Member
Benjy SarlinVerified account
‏@BenjySarlin
Folks tweeting about Clinton being a birther because of some online supporters -- you REALLY don't want to establish that standard for Trump
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.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
balladofwindfishes said:
Trump gave an interview where he had no answer for the birtherism question. A few hours later, he puts out a ridiculous letter from his campaign full of lies and dictator-esque language and the media starts ripping into him. He successfully turned what was his best week yet, into a disaster.
Click to expand...
Hey, that's some good shit. Thanks ballad.
 
M

Maxim726X

Member
Joe Shlabotnik said:
This is a contradiction in terms though--it's not "idealism tied to action", it's practical incrementalism. It's the antithesis of his whole campaign. Or at least he sure played it that way. I mean I probably agree more with Sanders idealistically but "practical incrementalism" is why I supported Clinton this whole time!

I agree it'd be great if he could actually walk this line but he wouldn't have run in the first place if he could.
Click to expand...

Agree completely.

It's going to be nigh impossible to convince people to vote practically when you've been touting a revolution for the last year.

Oh, and throwing fuel on the 'everything is 'rigged' fire probably isn't going to help too much either.
 
N

nature boy

Member
Plinko said:
The average American voter? The same type of person who watches The Tonight Show?

Seriously--the average American isn't that smart, guys. They aren't fact checking lies. They aren't researching candidate policy in the past. They're being exposed to these guys through stuff like what Fallon did. The elitist route is a terrible route to take for any politician in 2016.
Click to expand...

Every time there's a "focus group" on tv people keep talking "they're not talking about the issue, it's a nasty campaign bla bla bla" but then they eat this shit up.
 
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NeoXChaos

Member
CseXkJdWEAAns9s.jpg
 
I

iammeiam

Member
NPR put up a thing yesterday about why they don't just outright label Trump a liar, instead going with softer phrasing like misstates.

Most of it is infuriating because oh my god he's a lying liar who lies, but this part sort of stood out:
We want everyone to listen to us and read us. We want our reporting to reach as many people as possible. It is a well-established piece of social science research that if you start out with an angry tone and say something a listener disagrees with, they will tune out the facts. But if you present the facts calmly and without a tone of editorializing you substantially increase the chance that people will hear you out and weigh the facts. That is why the tone of journalism matters so much. We need potential listeners and readers to believe we are presenting the facts honestly, and not to confirm our opinions.
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Mostly because I'm not sure there's much of a point any longer in modulating tone to try to get Trump supporters to hear things out; is there a large pool of people out there who'd reject "Trump lies!" stories as obviously bias who aren't already limiting media consumption to Breitbart, Drudge, and Fox? Taking a moderate tone for broadest appeal makes sense in some cases, but in this case it just contributes to a low-level background hum of Trump stories that I think makes things blend together for more moderate or undecided people.
 
A

Abinash117

Member
Atomic Playboy said:
How is it partisan for the news to add a disclaimer when someone is demonstrably lying? A political candidate gets a pass because "shit, we've already pointed out three of his lies today and Hillary keeps telling the truth... it's not fair!"? That's journalists abdicating their responsibly to report facts, including pointing out when someone makes a statement that is not true. And Trump lies about absolutely everything. If the media can't point that out because it seems partisan, what is the point of a free press?
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It is in a sense because it would make it seem like that if they keep going after him considering the fact of all the things he says. News outlets don't want to look like they heavily favor one side, that is why we got this horse race stuff or they show the candidates being equal. All they really did was report what the campaign said. They'll probably point his lies every know and then, but I don't expect them to many times.
 
D

Dierce

Member
iammeiam said:
NPR put up a thing yesterday about why they don't just outright label Trump a liar, instead going with softer phrasing like misstates.

Most of it is infuriating because oh my god he's a lying liar who lies, but this part sort of stood out:


Mostly because I'm not sure there's much of a point any longer in modulating tone to try to get Trump supporters to hear things out; is there a large pool of people out there who'd reject "Trump lies!" stories as obviously bias who aren't already limiting media consumption to Breitbart, Drudge, and Fox? Taking a moderate tone for broadest appeal makes sense in some cases, but in this case it just contributes to a low-level background hum of Trump stories that I think makes things blend together for more moderate or undecided people.
Click to expand...

But they are perfectly ok with reporting word for word orange turd's accusations of Clinton being a crook, liar and bigot. I know we don't want that incompetent turd to win but it isn't just for the fact that he is a deranged, xenophobic and overall terrible individual.

If he wins it sets a precedent that we will never be able to walk back on. One where any fucking clown can lie their ass off, not be called on or ridiculed due to their stupidly, and win the highest and most powerful job in the world.

So what then? Would the Democrats have to nominate a celebrity like Jerry Springer to compete against the next epublican candidate who now has a blank check to lie and deceive people without any repercussion along with a supreme court and judiciary system that bends to their every whim.
 
N

nature boy

Member
So, folks, welcome to my new hotel, it's wonderful, many people are saying it's one of the top hotels in the world, if not the top. Either way, I'll be on Pennsylvania Avenue come January.
Unbelievable effort, under budget and ahead of schedule, that's what we need in our country #MAGA
Crooked Hillary couldn't do this, she makes a speech and goes to sleep. No stamina for the job.

About the birther issues you bitches are so concerned about, let's just move on, ok?

Thanks for coming.
 
T

trh

Nifty AND saffron-colored!
So the latest ~5 polls in Texas have Hillary trailing Trump by about as much as Trump is trailing Hillary in PA and Virginia, crazy.
 
D

dwuuu

Banned
nature boy said:
So, folks, welcome to my new hotel, it's wonderful, many people are saying it's one of the top hotels in the world, if not the top. Either way, I'll be on Pennsylvania Avenue come January.
Unbelievable effort, under budget and ahead of schedule, that's what we need in our country #MAGA
Crooked Hillary couldn't do this, she makes a speech and goes to sleep. No stamina for the job.

About the birther issues you bitches are so concerned about, let's just move on, ok?

Thanks for coming.
Click to expand...

That's what Trump previed on Fox Business this morning with Maria Bartiromo !
 
D

darkstar0155

Member
Plinko said:
I've lived in rural areas most of my life, and I disagree. My position may be biased as a result, but I also live very close to a major metropolitan area and spend a lot of time there, and I still see the same thing. Laziness is absolutely a factor, but people don't know a ton of things they probably should.
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I think we are largely saying the same thing, they don't know a ton of things not because they cant figure it out, but because they are lazy and don't spend the time looking into it without party identification glasses. I would classify this as ignorance, not being un-intelligent.
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
balladofwindfishes said:
Remember when Hillary was actually a cool lady that everyone loved?

Been thinking about this meme recently. Hillary can be appealing to people, she just needs to act more natural and casual. She seems too uptight and paranoid about how she's perceived and it's ironically hurting how she's perceived.
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Coordinated attacks and media narratives affect everyone's opinions. Everyone's. One of the most frustrating ironies this season are people wishing they could swap Clinton for Obama for the same reasons they would have wanted to swap Obama for Clinton in 2012.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
DogDude said:
How do they do the USC/LA Times poll and tell me why it's shit.
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They use the same group of people every single time. It's a weird way to do things, and if their original group was a poor sample, it gets reflected in their results, always.

It's also prone to large swings over a daily basis. Trump will be at 1% African American votes and then the next day be at 11% and it'll swing the poll, overall, 4 points.

However, it actually is fairly decent at predicting trends. Last week, for example, we saw it shift back to Hillary, and sure enough, everything else slowly caught up to the shift (and then it all bombed on Sunday, obviously)

The actual numbers are pretty useless, though.
 
T

thebloo

Member
DogDude said:
How do they do the USC/LA Times poll and tell me why it's shit.
Click to expand...

I really really like the concept of the poll and I think in 10-20 years it'll pretty much be the "standard". But it's currently flawed since they have pretty much nothing to weigh or adjust against. As said above, it shows some trends right now.

In the future, with better methodology you would actually be able to SEE the impact of smaller stuff that you can't right now.

Disclaimer: I have no idea about advanced statistics and polling. So I may be way off.

andthebeatgoeson said:
Hillary should try and prosecute them. Is the statue of limitations up?
Click to expand...

I think she's on record saying that it wasn't illegal.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Yo guys Andrew Cuomo went all in on Boris this morning. No chill. This is the journalism I want. More interviews like these everyday, and Trump campaign will be seriously hobbled.

Edit: Chris Cuomo!
 
T

thebloo

Member
I know some people are interested, so here it is. Stolen from some on Huffpollster.

Johnson's numbers in 4/5 polls that count for the debate:
Fox: 8%
CBS/NYT: 8%
ABC/WP: 9%
CNN/ORC: 7%

So, no way he's hitting 15%. Not even 10 on average.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
sazzy said:
CNN is slamming Trump in the nuts lol
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I think one thing a lot of the press have done badly, is being reactive to whatever Trump has done or said. He's only having this birther stuff hung around his neck now, when it should have been hung around his neck a year ago.

Yes, it's great seeing everyone piling on... but it sure feels like they've been waiting for Trump or someone else to give them an excuse to attack him on this.

As if they ever needed one.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
thebloo said:
I know some people are interested, so here it is. Stolen from some on Huffpollster.

Johnson's numbers in 4/5 polls that count for the debate:
Fox: 8%
CBS/NYT: 8%
ABC/WP: 9%
CNN/ORC: 7%

So, no way he's hitting 15%. Not even 10 on average.
Click to expand...

Good, because this is huge for Hillary. Johnson not being on stage will help show the major contrast between Trump and Clinton.
 
N

nature boy

Member
thebloo said:
I know some people are interested, so here it is. Stolen from some on Huffpollster.

Johnson's numbers in 4/5 polls that count for the debate:
Fox: 8%
CBS/NYT: 8%
ABC/WP: 9%
CNN/ORC: 7%

So, no way he's hitting 15%. Not even 10 on average.
Click to expand...

He needs over 40 in the NBC/WSJ poll. Believe!
 
H

Hopfrog

Member
thebloo said:
I know some people are interested, so here it is. Stolen from some on Huffpollster.

Johnson's numbers in 4/5 polls that count for the debate:
Fox: 8%
CBS/NYT: 8%
ABC/WP: 9%
CNN/ORC: 7%

So, no way he's hitting 15%. Not even 10 on average.
Click to expand...

Bit of a non-sequitur, but the Freakanomics guys interviewed Johnson for the latest episode of their podcast. Pretty interesting episode overall as they do a general gloss over libertarianism as a whole.
 
N

Nazgul_Hunter

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
Don't stop at that. Have surrogates ready to go on TV once Trump finishes his shit.
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That's been my biggest disappointment with the HRC campaign. In August they let Trump surrogates (not supporters, surrogates) be EVERYWHERE on the news unchalleneged. I thought that was a before-Labor-Day strategy, but they haven't really had people out there talking, pre-empting and spinning. It's infuriating when they're running against the embodiment of the gish-gallop.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
I'm curious to see what polling looks like next week.

My guess is that we'll see polls going back to where they were last week. Although it'll be hard to tell if they're returning to "normal" due to Hillary being back out there, or Trump completely embarrassing himself today and being ripped to shreds by the media.
 
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