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PoliGAF 2016 |OT11| Well this is exciting

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John Harwood ‏@JohnJHarwood 26s26 seconds ago

Obama on Trump debate showing: "He doesn't have preparation, temperament or core values of inclusion that would take our country forward."
 
Come out yesterday in the poll dump, don't think it was posted:

In Pre-Debate Latino Voter Tracking Poll, Clinton Maintains 54-Point Lead Over Trump

The second week of a National Association of Latino Elected Officials (NALEO) Education Fund, Telemundo and Latino Decisions tracking poll released hours before Monday night’s first presidential debate has Hillary Clinton leading Donald Trump by 54 points with Latino voters. In a poll that ran between September 12 and September 17 (+/- 4.4% margin of error), Clinton’s Latino support was as 72%, with Trump earning 18% support. In last week’s version of the the poll, Clinton was at 71% and Trump had 18% Latino support.

The September 12-17 tracking poll also asked how certain voters were for their choices. Only 12% said they were certainly voting for Trump, while 53% said they were certainly voting for Clinton.
 

786110

Member
I missed the debate last night due to being on the brink of death

is there like a youtube compilation of the best of moments yet

and i imagine clinton looked well considering the tone of this thread
 

AniHawk

Member
listened to talk radio this morning and everyone was basically in disbelief over how trump imploded on screen. they tried to soothe themselves by saying it really didn't matter in the long run though.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I missed the debate last night due to being on the brink of death

is there like a youtube compilation of the best of moments yet

and i imagine clinton looked well considering the tone of this thread

Best moments? The debate was full of best moments. You could watch that debate in whole 1000 times and always find something new to laugh at.
 
YouGov debate "winner" poll:

Hillary: 57
Trump: 30

83% of Dems thought Hillary won, 68% of Republicans thought Trump won. But among Independents, 54% thought Hillary won while only 28% thought Trump won.
 
Another thing that was missed in that gish-gallop of shittiness last night: Donald Trump somehow thinks that VATs are tariffs imposed on US imports elsewhere.
 
Hot take time.

Is this the first modern debate in which neither candidate pivotted at all? Trump was his typical Trump, and Hillary staked out very progressive positions very similar to the primary. I didn't notice either of them pivot on any issue in order to appeal to the general election crowd.

I'm glad, I hated it when Romney did an about-face in 2012. Say what you will about Trump, but at least he didn't misrepresent himself. What you see is what you get. And credit Hillary for sticking to her guns on minimum wage, college debt, private prisons, etc.
 
Trump's jab at 400-pound guys sitting online in bed may have lost him the alt-right

58bcc78d82.gif

Maybe he watches Hawaii Five-0. There's a character that's a billigerant huge hacker that became a recurring character on that show. Shows like that NCIS and the like tend to use stereotypes like that and Trump and the right tend to get their info from fictional tv shows.

6slL9pQ.jpg
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Hot take time.

Is this the first modern debate in which neither candidate pivotted at all? Trump was his typical Trump, and Hillary staked out very progressive positions very similar to the primary. I didn't notice either of them pivot on any issue in order to appeal to the general election crowd.

I'm glad, I hated it when Romney did an about-face in 2012. Say what you will about Trump, but at least he didn't misrepresent himself. What you see is what you get. And credit Hillary for sticking to her guns on minimum wage, college debt, private prisons, etc.

Clinton's win is going to come if she can reassemble the Obama coalition, if she picks up a few wayward moderates along the way that's fine but she doesn't need the traditional center.
 
Hot take time.

Is this the first modern debate in which neither candidate pivotted at all? Trump was his typical Trump, and Hillary staked out very progressive positions very similar to the primary. I didn't notice either of them pivot on any issue in order to appeal to the general election crowd.

I'm glad, I hated it when Romney did an about-face in 2012. Say what you will about Trump, but at least he didn't misrepresent himself. What you see is what you get. And credit Hillary for sticking to her guns on minimum wage, college debt, private prisons, etc.

I think there are examples of one candidate not pivoting, but I can't think of any where neither have.

Crazy how we are seemingly in a point in time where there really isn't much of a reason to
 

Ithil

Member
1) Openly rig online polls.
2) Use the polls you just openly rigged as proof your candidate is winning.
3) Lose on election day because your rigged polls were in fact not accurate, being rigged.
4) Complain that the election itself must be fraudulent because the online polls you openly rigged said your candidate would win.
5) ????
6) Complain some more.

The screenshot of the Trump subreddit posting all the polls and telling people to stuff them with votes should be circulated on the news.
 

kess

Member
Trump for all his flaws and problems, when he does speak his emotions come through much stronger (for better or worse). He comes across more passionate and and appears to care more in what he believes in, etc. (again for better or worse). This seems to be one of the big reasons that Trumps nonsense and flaws get continually overlooked, etc. To sum it up, someone said to me "at least he looks like he actually gives a damn."

Edit:During the talk I had I was pushing to find out whats behind the whole "hes more real" perception a lot of his supporters seem to have. Why do they think hes more trustworthy, etc. The above seems to be part of whats behind their thinking/feelings.


Conservatives love a good actor. Fred Thompson, Clint Eastwood, Mel Gibson, and of course, Ronald Reagan.

An appeal to feeling rather than reason.
 

thebloo

Member
I don't think Obama vs Romney 2012 debates had anything like this. Even the binders full of women and please proceed governor double whammy from the town hall.

No, no. Romney beat Obama bad in the first debate. Someone had the snap polls (Oblivion?) and they were bad.

It's just CNN/Gallup history:

Start with a CNN poll of debate-watchers, which showed that 62 percent of voters thought Clinton won the debate compared to 27 percent for Trump — a 35-point margin. That’s the third-widest margin ever in a CNN or Gallup post-debate poll, which date back to 1984. The only more lopsided outcomes were the 1992 town hall debate between Bill Clinton, George H.W. Bush and Ross Perot — widely seen as a maestro performance by Clinton — and the first debate between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney in 2012, when the CNN poll showed a 42-point win for Romney and the horse-race polls moved in his favor in the following days.
 

East Lake

Member
Just thought I'd share a little Trump voter insight from some postdebate discussions. Most are already aware that Hillary's biggest problem is her body language and how she says things. Drilling further into this issue during the discussion I had a lot of it comes down to simple passion. Hillary when she speaks comes across like all issues are the same to her. Everything is just part of the job. When you look at her level of emotion and energy while discussing various issues rarely does she seem moved. To a lot of people its as if she is just going through motions.

Trump for all his flaws and problems, when he does speak his emotions come through much stronger (for better or worse). He comes across more passionate and and appears to care more in what he believes in, etc. (again for better or worse). This seems to be one of the big reasons that Trumps nonsense and flaws get continually overlooked, etc. To sum it up, someone said to me "at least he looks like he actually gives a damn".

Re-watching some of Hillary's speaking, I get what they where trying to say. It's similar to the whole Al Gore and George Bush situation which has been mentioned before. Thankfully Trump lacks the charm George Bush had however the perceived lack of passion on Hillary's end is problematic.

Edit:During the talk I had I was pushing to find out whats behind the whole "hes more real" perception a lot of his supporters seem to have. Why do they think hes more trustworthy, etc. The above seems to be part of whats behind their thinking/feelings.
Prepared arguments usually don't sound genuine even if they're delivered with emotion. Trump's not a fan of preparing obviously but the downside is that he'll get angry and improvise his way to a new subject when he forgets what the original point was. Ad-libbing needs very good brain.
 
YouGov debate "winner" poll:

Hillary: 57
Trump: 30

83% of Dems thought Hillary won, 68% of Republicans thought Trump won. But among Independents, 54% thought Hillary won while only 28% thought Trump won.

And now we wait for Trump to announce he won't attend the next debate.
 

Debirudog

Member
Just thought I'd share a little Trump voter insight from some postdebate discussions. Most are already aware that Hillary's biggest problem is her body language and how she says things. Drilling further into this issue during the discussion I had a lot of it comes down to simple passion. Hillary when she speaks comes across like all issues are the same to her. Everything is just part of the job. When you look at her level of emotion and energy while discussing various issues rarely does she seem moved. To a lot of people its as if she is just going through motions.

Trump for all his flaws and problems, when he does speak his emotions come through much stronger (for better or worse). He comes across more passionate and and appears to care more in what he believes in, etc. (again for better or worse). This seems to be one of the big reasons that Trumps nonsense and flaws get continually overlooked, etc. To sum it up, someone said to me "at least he looks like he actually gives a damn".

Re-watching some of Hillary's speaking, I get what they where trying to say. It's similar to the whole Al Gore and George Bush situation which has been mentioned before. Thankfully Trump lacks the charm George Bush had however the perceived lack of passion on Hillary's end is problematic.

Edit:During the talk I had I was pushing to find out whats behind the whole "hes more real" perception a lot of his supporters seem to have. Why do they think hes more trustworthy, etc. The above seems to be part of whats behind their thinking/feelings.

You're just spoiled by King Bams, master of feels and logic.
 
People in Pennsylvania hate private prisons and loved Hillary going after them last night according to Luntz:

But her numbers among completely undecided voters went high and higher during her discussion of overhauling the criminal-justice system. When she pointed out that crime isn’t nearly as high as Trump suggests and that the system punishes black and Hispanic men more harshly than white men, the favorability number kept going up. And it went even higher when she praised the Department of Justice’s announcement that it would phase out Bureau of Prisons contracts to stop doing deals with private prison companies. And the number went up even more when Clinton reiterated her position to end all federal contracts with the for-profit corporations.

After the debate wrapped up, focus-group participants explained why they liked Clinton’s answer on private prisons so much: Over the last few years, a “Kids for Cash” scandal has rocked Pennsylvania. In 2011, a Pennsylvania judge got a 28-year sentence for accepting bribes from a private prison company owner. The owner paid him to send children to his prison, often violating their rights to have an attorney. Because of the scandal, the AP reported, Pennsylvania’s state supreme court tossed about 4,000 juvenile sentences.

The scandal affected a massive number of people; not just children wrongfully sentenced in violation of their constitutional rights, but also their families, friends, and, well, anyone who reads the news in Pennsylvania. And even though the judge’s sentencing was several years ago, the Kids-for-Cash scandal is still fresh in the minds of swing voters.

A number of Luntz’s focus-group attendees said Clinton’s opposition to private prisons made them think more highly of her. And none saw it as a negative.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-surprise-hit-of-the-presidential-debate.html
 

Wilsongt

Member
Hillary probably pivoted to more neutral words during her discussion on race and police. Both candidates focused on criminal justice (Donald sounding like a dunce here) instead of cops killing black people. It didn't bother me too much since she was speaking to like 70-100 million people.
 

KyroLen

Neo Member
Last night couldn't have gone any better.

I have Trump family friends on facebook acting salty as hell, I have coworkers stating "what if he doesn't really want to win, maybe he's just throwing the election" and trying to defend his performance halfheartedly.

Trump supporters even know that he fucked up last night, and I have had a smile on my face all day and all last night. Feels great!
 

Minty_Freshness

Neo Member
My personal favorite moment was easily Trump claiming Hillary had been fighting ISIS her "entire. adult. life."

Relistening to it again just made me laugh at how much of a sick burn he thought had, followed by the noticeable silence from the audience trying to parse what he had just said.

Fantastic.
 
The thing about Obama v. Romney (as Adam pointed out last night) is that while Obama definitely stumbled and it hurt his poll numbers, he was able to recover in the next two debates because he was the incumbent president. Questions about experience, temperament etc. were irrelevant because for the last four years he'd already proven he was more than capable of doing the job competently (whether you agreed with his politics aside). He could convince voters who'd previously supported him to come back because he had a record.

Think of it like an employee at a firm for the past 3 and a half years who's proven himself to be a dedicated worker and you just catch him on a bad day. For Trump this was his job interview.
 

dramatis

Member
I think that moment is being seriously underrated. That was the moment she was president. Of the entire debate, that part actually stuck with me more than anything else said by either of them.

It reminded me of 2008 Obama during the financial crisis, when he started acting like president. Sitting down and talking with people on how to solve the problem, while McCain was off doing whatever.
It very much to mattered to someone.
I'm pretty sure this had to do with the beers I've had, but I had a full range of emotions tonight. When the unexpected topic of US's allies popped up (With Japan being mentioned over and over), I screamed when I heard "Japan and other allies we are protecting does not give us enough". Followed up by Clinton's "We have an alliance with Japan and other allies and I promise to protect them", I straight up broke down crying. For a good 10 minutes. For someone that gave up his Japanese citizenship to become an US citizen this year, it was a maelstrom of emotions.

I think I'll skip the drinks or the debate all together next time.
 

Wilsongt

Member
The thing about Obama v. Romney (as Adam pointed out last night) is that while Obama definitely stumbled and it hurt his poll numbers, he was able to recover in the next two debates because he was the incumbent president. Questions about experience, temperament etc. were irrelevant because for the last four years he'd already proven he was more than capable of doing the job competently (whether you agreed with his politics aside). He could convince voters who'd previously supported him to come back because he had a record.

Think of it like an employee at a firm for the past 3 and a half years who's proven himself to be a dedicated worker and you just catch him on a bad day. For Trump this was his job interview.

Time to throw the resume in the trash. Except Trump is the son of someone on the board of directors who is trying to get him a job even though he's an idiot and sucks at what the company does.
 
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