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PoliGAF 2016 |OT11| Well this is exciting

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F

Fragamemnon

Member
whyamihere said:
AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAH

CteNk_ZVYAA_y4U.jpg:large
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The first step in winning the second debate would be to internalize that you lost the first one so you can correct your mistakes. Glad to see that's not happening here.

He's going to go completely off on Clinton with personal attacks during a town hall debate and it's going to be the biggest meltdown on American soil since three mile island.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Voysa Reezun said:
I continue to be confused by the white leftist hate for Jewish people. Where does it arise from? I know the history of why some black liberals in America are anti-Semitic, but the guys like Glenn Greenwald confuse me. It feels like criticism of Israeli human rights violations in Gaza or wherever is just a smokescreen for something deeper, but I can't pinpoint historically where this sort of weird thinking arises.
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I think a lot of the hate is specific to Israel and not a jewish thing from the left. Its about criticism of the westand a kind of self-righteousness to be seen helping the victim. In leftists circles, since 1967, Israel has lost victimhood (israel actually had been a cause celebere by leftists before then as it was founded by many socialists and wasn't take overt sides in the cold war)

The problem becomes is they tend to attract anti-Semites and do nothing to divorce themselves (I think because they really anti-antisemitism is no big deal). Its an over symplification of who is the victim which causes them to pick sides and not cast out the crazies.

I don't think its anything deeper than a general desire to be seen as anti-west/liberal/standing up for the victim.

I think also the polarization that affects US politics is manifested itself in Israeli and Palestinian politics as well as the international reaction to the conflict. Everything is zero-sum and the evermore extreme person to call you out for being a traitor if you let up or express sympathy for "the other side"

I mean look how they'll even through chomsky and finkelstein under the bus for not liking BSD
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Fragamemnon said:
The first step in winning the second debate would be to internalize that you lost the first one so you can correct your mistakes. Glad to see that's not happening here.

He's going to go completely off on Clinton with personal attacks during a town hall debate and it's going to be the biggest meltdown on American soil since three mile island.
Click to expand...

I have to wonder what his campaign team is doing.

Are they trying to break his denial, so he'll course correct?
Are they trying to talk around it and still get him to course correct?
Are they in denial?
Or is Trump aware of how badly he did and just putting on an act?

I'm going for choice #2.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
How did 26% of Republicans watch that and have an improved opinion of him.

Why do we keep fretting about dumb millennials. I'm sure dumb millennials think that they're the gatekeepers to the Presidency already.
 
A

Atomic Playboy

Member
Voysa Reezun said:
I mean, I am bummed that this sort of absurd othering is a thing for people who are actual self-identified leftists here in 2016. I was hoping there'd be something more to it than the typical logic that gets bandied around by the attendants at a Trump rally, I guess.

Anyway, everyone else who posted in response thanks, and I did forget that Greenwald was Jewish. Greenwald has totally lost touch with reality, though, in a way that is much like a terrible car wreck in that I am both repulsed and fascinated by it at the same time.
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The absurd othering is pretty much a function of how the human brain processes information, unfortunately. We're constantly looking for patterns, even unconsciously. This is obviously helpful for breaking down complex information into manageable chunks; "what features does this thing have in common with other things that I already know about" helps simplify learning new things. The problem is that our brain doesn't differentiate between doing that with objects or concepts and doing it with people or groups. That leads to stereotypes, and negative stereotypes quickly become prejudice unless we intentionally force ourselves to think about things in a different way than our brain typically works. Most people are content to be intellectually lazy because it takes a tremendous amount of effort to restructure your thinking every time you have to consider new people or groups, and unfortunately that allows prejudice to flourish. Fortunately this type of thinking goes away when people are confronted with individuals who don't fit into their established stereotypes; social conservatives tend to be a lot more compassionate towards gay people if they have a gay son or daughter, for example. Unfortunately, we tend to self-segregate (which is another function of this intellectual laziness), so we are inadvertently allowing our own stereotypes to go unchecked. It's not a problem with a simple solution, unfortunately, but it's not fair to assume that it's only a function of "conservative" thinking; we all do it on a certain level (although not to the level of "establishing an enemy" obviously).
 
P

Piecake

Member
Fox News’s vice president of public-opinion research sent a memo to staff Wednesday reminding employees that unscientific online polls, which were cited in several segments to suggest that Donald Trump won Monday night’s presidential debate against Hillary Clinton, do not meet the network’s editorial standards.

"As most of the publications themselves clearly state, the sample obviously can’t be representative of the electorate because they only reflect the views of those Internet users who have chosen to participate," Dana Blanton, Fox News’s vice president of public-opinion research, wrote in the memo to the channel's politics team, which was obtained by Business Insider’s Oliver Darcy. "Another problem — we know some campaigns/groups of supporters encourage people to vote in online polls and flood the results," she wrote. "These quickie click items do not meet our editorial standards."
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http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/09/fox-news-online-polls-228836

Fox has editorial standards?!?!

A sign that Fox might be slightly changing.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
As much as "poll truthing" by Trump annoys me, the silver lining is that it means he's going to double down more and blow up again in the next 2 debates.
 
Z

zelas

Member
NYCmetsfan said:
But he still wrote the article. I think he understands statistics but is praying on others who don't with these nonsense articles.
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He's preying on others by educating them why they should exercise some restraint? The article isnt a problem.


Black Mamba said:
Did you read what I quoted from the article? Because you haven't addressed it.

His title is clickbait bullshit. And then in the article he tries to have it both ways. IT INDICATES A BOUNCE BUT IT'S TOO EARLY TO KNOW IF IT'S A BOUNCE!
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I literally responded to you when I said the title was worthy of criticism and that the substance of the article isn't a sign that he doesnt understand statistics. The article basically says "yes these polls could be the start of something, but wait until Friday's definitive polling." In depth and repeatedly. That does not show a misunderstanding of statistics. "Wait until we have enough relevant data" is exactly what a good statistician should say.
 
F

Fragamemnon

Member
Fox has editorial standards?!?!

A sign that Fox might be slightly changing.
Click to expand...

For their main news segments they do have some standards about what they say is true or not. Fox news has always been a bullhorn for the GOP in the way they selectively cover stuff (acting as a GOP talking points bullhorn) and in the evening commentator shows where there isn't that kind of editorial scrutiny.
 
T

teiresias

Member
Sianos said:
the inconceivable power of cyber polling
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More like the fundamental necessity of playing to an electorate that hates anyone with an education, an understanding of math or science, and isn't dependent on unskilled manual labor to sustain themselves.

I swear, this coddling of this swathe of people in this country who fundamentally think having an education and understanding the fundamentals of how our reality functions will be its downfall.
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
Apparently, Sean Astin campaigned in North Carolina for Hillary.

The Republican National Committee took a dig at Astin, suggesting he’s too much of a has-been celebrity to draw the attention of younger voters.

“Sean Astin was a Goonie long before many of the millennial voters that Hillary Clinton desperately needs were even born,” RNC spokeswoman Kara Carter said in a news release. “Yet, Hillary Clinton’s campaign has deployed him to North Carolina in an attempt to excite voters. Rudy may have inspired the masses but unfortunately for Clinton, Astin only played him in a movie.”
Click to expand...

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article104662711.html#storylink=cpy

He only SINGLE HANDEDLY (with a small, almost inconsequential amount of help from Frodo) SAVED MIDDLE EARTH, JERKWADS.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Randolph Freelander said:
Apparently, Sean Astin campaigned in North Carolina for Hillary.



http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article104662711.html#storylink=cpy

He only SINGLE HANDEDLY (with a small, almost inconsequential amount of help from Frodo) SAVED MIDDLE EARTH, JERKWADS.
Click to expand...
“Sean Astin was a Goonie long before many of the millennial voters that Hillary Clinton desperately needs were even born,” RNC spokeswoman Kara Carter said in a news release. “Yet, Hillary Clinton’s campaign has deployed him to North Carolina in an attempt to excite voters. Rudy may have inspired the masses but unfortunately for Clinton, Astin only played him in a movie.”
Click to expand...
Much like the way Donald Trump only plays a successful businessman on television.
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
teiresias said:
More like the fundamental necessity of playing to an electorate that hates anyone with an education, an understanding of math or science, and isn't dependent on unskilled manual labor to sustain themselves.

I swear, this coddling of this swathe of people in this country who fundamentally think having an education and understanding the fundamentals of how our reality functions will be its downfall.
Click to expand...

The GOP in general is bad, but Trump has taken anti-intellectualism to another level
 
S

SexyFish

Banned
The moment Trump claims that if he loses it has to be rigged because he has more Twitter followers is the moment I die of happiness.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
Voysa Reezun said:
I continue to be confused by the white leftist hate for Jewish people. Where does it arise from? I know the history of why some black liberals in America are anti-Semitic, but the guys like Glenn Greenwald confuse me. It feels like criticism of Israeli human rights violations in Gaza or wherever is just a smokescreen for something deeper, but I can't pinpoint historically where this sort of weird thinking arises.
Click to expand...
Brushing off human rights violations while worrying about anti-semitism is bizarre to me.

There absolutely is a problem with anti-semitism associated with criticism of Israel and that bigotry should be recognized and rejected from any debate, but the fear of anti-semitism shouldn't be used to justify bullshit that you wouldn't be condoning in other circumstances.
 
J

Joeytj

Banned
Randolph Freelander said:
Apparently, Sean Astin campaigned in North Carolina for Hillary.



http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article104662711.html#storylink=cpy

He only SINGLE HANDEDLY (with a small, almost inconsequential amount of help from Frodo) SAVED MIDDLE EARTH, JERKWADS.
Click to expand...

Lol, what's up with that shade towards Astin? If he's such a "has been" why feel the need to destroy him like this?

And they completely forgot he's known to millennials for being Sam on LOTR.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
zelas said:
He's preying on others by educating them why they should exercise some restraint? The article isnt a problem.



I literally responded to you when I said the title was worthy of criticism and that the substance of the article isn't a sign that he doesnt understand statistics. The article basically says "yes these polls could be the start of something, but wait until Friday's definitive polling." In depth and repeatedly. That does not show a misunderstanding of statistics. "Wait until we have enough relevant data" is exactly what a good statistician should say.
Click to expand...

But I specifically quoted a part of the article that demonstrates his misunderstanding.

Black Mamba said:
In which he says this:

The first poll is from Morning Consult, which shows Clinton leading by 3 percentage points in a matchup that includes third-party candidates — that’s a 4-point swing toward Clinton from the 1-point Trump lead that Morning Consult showed before the debate. In a head-to-head matchup against Trump, Clinton leads by 4 points, up from a 2-point lead before the debate.
Click to expand...

And then people wonder why I say Silver doesn't actually understand statistics.

THESE TWO POLLS ALONE SHOW NOTHING YOU PUNDIT!
Click to expand...

My argument here isn't because we need more polls. My argument here is that his analysis is completely and wholeheartedly incorrect. It does not show any swing at all.
 
S

Sianos

Member
teiresias said:
More like the fundamental necessity of playing to an electorate that hates anyone with an education, an understanding of math or science, and isn't dependent on unskilled manual labor to sustain themselves.

I swear, this coddling of this swathe of people in this country who fundamentally think having an education and understanding the fundamentals of how our reality functions will be its downfall.
Click to expand...

actually, i think trump genuinely doesn't understand statistics and the internet as a concept - this is a man for whom the extent of his policy on internet security is to use the word cyber as a noun and cite his ten year old son as a source

he's not imtentionally pandering to idiots here: he is one himself

but yeah, the anti-intellectual movement trump's statement embodies frightens me, and it will get worse when they realize that the unskilled labor manufacturing jobs are not coming back no matter how much they yell about mexico and china and that many service jobs are next as automation technology marches onwards
 
B

BravesCountry

Banned
Randolph Freelander said:
Apparently, Sean Astin campaigned in North Carolina for Hillary.



http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article104662711.html#storylink=cpy

He only SINGLE HANDEDLY (with a small, almost inconsequential amount of help from Frodo) SAVED MIDDLE EARTH, JERKWADS.
Click to expand...

The RNC trotted out Scott Baio on national television.

Also this is some cosmic karma that Trump trolls online have basically convinced him that he won the debate which is bound to backfire horribly. Serves them right for trying to cheat public opinion.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Toxi said:
Brushing off human rights violations while worrying about anti-semitism is bizarre to me.
Click to expand...

I mean, its a similar problem to the way we discuss Islam. We have to be able to both recognize that Islamic-controlled countries frequently feature genuinely horrible conditions for queer people, women, and are generally just socially regressive in ways we can't chalk up to "cultural differences", while also recognizing that outside of that context Muslims are frequently targets of discrimination, violence, etc.

The problem is that when your platform is being critical of Israel or critical of Islamic nations you have to be very careful because you end up appealing to a lot of the racists also. Its a very fine line to walk and I think if you're going to talk about global politics you have a responsibility to walk it, and I think a lot of the talking heads out there don't, and don't realize that they're just feeding a bunch of racists
 
V

Voysa Reezun

Banned
Toxi said:
Brushing off human rights violations while worrying about anti-semitism is bizarre to me.
Click to expand...

Where did I do that? One can criticize a Jewish state's treatment of Palestinians while also critiquing those who use it as an excuse to advance general antisemitic attitudes and beliefs (and those who offer safe harbor to such antisemetic behavior).
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/polit...ie-sanders-millenial-election-2016/index.html

Emily Bailer, an 18-year-old student at St. Anslem College in Manchester, was drawn to Sanders during the primaries but is now volunteering with the Clinton campaign. She said her initial doubts about Clinton had mostly do do with her emails scandal.

"I had some issues trusting her," Bailer said.

But Bailer added that just like herself, many of the ex-Sanders supporters she knows appear to be coming around to Clinton.

"I don't know, the people I've talked to -- they're starting to change their minds and are starting to support her because they know the alternative," she said.
Click to expand...

Clinton spokeswoman Jennifer Palmieri told reporters Wednesday afternoon that Sanders has "already been effective in making that argument that if you want to defeat Donald Trump you need to vote for Hillary Clinton."

According to Clinton and Sanders aides, the Vermont senator will be an active surrogate in the final weeks of the 2016 election, and more campaign events are being scheduled. One Sanders aide said the senator will likely visit Iowa, Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania.

On Wednesday, Clinton called Sanders a friend and heralded him as "one of the most passionate champions for equality and justice that I have ever seen."
Click to expand...

Neviah Eaton, a 24-year-old mother of a 2-year-old, voted for Sanders during the primary, and while she is still a Sanders fan, will vote for Clinton in November.

"A lot of the younger voters were really set on Bernie. We've got the 'Bernie or bust' -- I don't really agree with that," Eaton said. "Because the more people we have voting for Hillary, the less likely that Trump because president."
Click to expand...
 
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