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PoliGAF 2016 |OT11| Well this is exciting

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I

IggyChooChoo

Member
Plinko said:
I don't know about "blow it" but I think this board massively underestimates Pence's speaking ability. The guy had a radio show and knows how to debate. My guess is it is a draw.
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In a vacuum I would agree. However, Pence has to defend his record as governor, which is not popular even among Indianans; he has to defend Trump on all sorts of issues, which he has not been good at -- and that's especially troublesome coming off a week that's worse than usual for Trump. Plus his debate prepper was Scott Walker. Kaine may even benefit from slightly lowered expectations due to all this dad talk. So while I doubt it'll be a knockout, I think Kaine has an easier task cut out for him and will generally win the focus group/test audiences, the preponderance pundits, and in our general consensus as well. But I wouldn't be surprised if by Friday all we remember about the debate was that Kaine spoke Spanish and white supremacists on Twitter went insane and Trump refused to disavow or some such nonsense.
 
L

Lucky Forward

Member
Randolph Freelander said:
Meanwhile, in Aurora

https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/783314612498362368
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http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-clinton-execution-float-aurora-indiana

The float's creator, Frank Linkmeyer, told WCPO that he didn't mean to offend anyone. He said he creates off-the-wall floats for the parade every year and takes jabs at everyone.

"Police officers, judges, nurses, doctors, heart transplant patients — just a variety of things and the people in Aurora and the surrounding area love to see us in the parade," he told the station.

As for the float's apparent political message, Linkmeyer told the station that he could just have easily built the float to show Clinton executing Trump as the other way around.

"Could have had Donald Trump in the electric chair. It was a tossup," Linkemeyer told WCPO.
Click to expand...
 
P

PBY

Banned
IggyChooChoo said:
In a vacuum I would agree. However, Pence has to defend his record as governor, which is not popular even among Indianans; he has to defend Trump on all sorts of issues, which he has not been good at -- and that's especially troublesome coming off a week that's worse than usual for Trump. Plus his debate prepper was Scott Walker. Kaine may even benefit from slightly lowered expectations due to all this dad talk. So while I doubt it'll be a knockout, I think Kaine has an easier task cut out for him and will generally win the focus group/test audiences, the preponderance pundits, and in our general consensus as well. But I wouldn't be surprised if by Friday all we remember about the debate was that Kaine spoke Spanish and white supremacists on Twitter went insane and Trump refused to disavow or some such nonsense.
Click to expand...

This is going to be so muted and conversational, that there will be no winner or loser. Maybe the tasks will be eaiser for Kaine, but Pence has tap danced around these issues for years now, and he'll do it again, and Kaine will maybe press once, but they'll move on.
 
R

royalan

Member
Put me in the camp that things Kaine needs to be aggressive tonight. He's also got to force Pence to answer for his record, and not just Trump's. Trump's supporters don't care about Pence, but soft Republicans do. They see Pence as the stabilizing force that could make them stomach voting for Trump, and have been willing to let him run independently of Trump's rhetoric.

Liberals need to be reminded of all the shit Pence has pulled.

Both groups need to be reminded that Pence is a monster in his own right. He can't end tonight seen as the Good Guy on the Bad Ticket.
 
B

BotoxAgent

Member
royalan said:
Put me in the camp that things Kaine needs to be aggressive tonight. He's also got to force Pence to answer for his record, and not just Trump's. Trump's supporters don't care about Pence, but soft Republicans do. They see Pence as the stabilizing force that could make them stomach voting for Trump, and have been willing to let him run independently of Trump's rhetoric.

Liberals need to be reminded of all the shit Pence has pulled.

Both groups need to be reminded that Pence is a monster in his own right. He can't end tonight seen as the Good Guy on the Bad Ticket.
Click to expand...

I agree. People don't really know who Pence is, and they have to use this night to define him as a man as dangerous as Trump.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Boke1879 said:
To be honest he's right. It's helped millions of people but the system isn't perfect and in a perfect world where congress worked this would have been improved on over the years.

And honestly this message may just resonate with people especially coming from Bill. Hillary can easily campaign in this. Say it's helped people but it can be improved and go from there.
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I understand where he was going with it, but I think he slammed it too hard. Just gives fodder to Repubs who have been trying to tear it down for the past 6 years. Everyone agrees it needs improvement. But millions of lives, some on this very forum, have been improved with it and we have testimonies to that fact. Bill as usual does not apply brakes when going off the cuff.
 
K

kess

Member
nature boy said:
So now the big question going forward is how long the RNC/GOP continues to waste time and money on Orange Menace while their senators go down the toilet.

Don't think they can keep this charade for long, either he wins the second debate and completely shifts the momentum (hint: he won't) or they publicly start to dump him. Wonder if the Dems also start shifting some resources to the senate races.

Oh and I heard there's a VP debate today.
Click to expand...

I've been wondering about this too. If Trump blows up at the second debate, Chris Wallace has no reason to deal with his bullshit, which by then will be actively damaging to downticket Republicans.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
royalan said:
Put me in the camp that things Kaine needs to be aggressive tonight. He's also got to force Pence to answer for his record, and not just Trump's. Trump's supporters don't care about Pence, but soft Republicans do. They see Pence as the stabilizing force that could make them stomach voting for Trump, and have been willing to let him run independently of Trump's rhetoric.

Liberals need to be reminded of all the shit Pence has pulled.

Both groups need to be reminded that Pence is a monster in his own right. He can't end tonight seen as the Good Guy on the Bad Ticket.
Click to expand...
How about Kaine swings out his harmonica and plays it after every time he delivers a zing.
 
I

IggyChooChoo

Member
PBY said:
This is going to be so muted and conversational, that there will be no winner or loser. Maybe the tasks will be eaiser for Kaine, but Pence has tap danced around these issues for years now, and he'll do it again, and Kaine will maybe press once, but they'll move on.
Click to expand...
Hillary has been so aggressive lately, though. It makes me feel like they're going to want Kaine to really go for it rather than playing for a draw -- if only to rile up our own base.
 
T

Teggy

Member
Boke1879 said:
To be honest he's right. It's helped millions of people but the system isn't perfect and in a perfect world where congress worked this would have been improved on over the years.

And honestly this message may just resonate with people especially coming from Bill. Hillary can easily campaign in this. Say it's helped people but it can be improved and go from there.
Click to expand...

But is he giving a plan to improve it or just shitting on it?
 
F

Finale Fireworker

Member
BotoxAgent said:
I agree. People don't really know who Pence is, and they have to use this night to define him as a man as dangerous as Trump.
Click to expand...

I know what Kaine should do: offer Pence a baby chick. America will watch Pence return to his podium, chick in hand, and he'll have to resist the urge to eat it. The man can't help himself. When he deludes himself into thinking the cameras aren't on him, he'll eat the chick alive.
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
IggyChooChoo said:
In a vacuum I would agree. However, Pence has to defend his record as governor, which is not popular even among Indianans; he has to defend Trump on all sorts of issues, which he has not been good at -- and that's especially troublesome coming off a week that's worse than usual for Trump. Plus his debate prepper was Scott Walker. Kaine may even benefit from slightly lowered expectations due to all this dad talk. So while I doubt it'll be a knockout, I think Kaine has an easier task cut out for him and will generally win the focus group/test audiences, the preponderance pundits, and in our general consensus as well. But I wouldn't be surprised if by Friday all we remember about the debate was that Kaine spoke Spanish and white supremacists on Twitter went insane and Trump refused to disavow or some such nonsense.
Click to expand...

One correction. It's Hoosiers, not Indianans.
Just don't ask about the origin of the word.

For a variety of reasons I'm not expecting a repeat of Biden-Ryan, but at the very least I don't think this debate will do any harm.
 
N

nature boy

Member
kess said:
I've been wondering about this too. If Trump blows up at the second debate, Chris Wallace has no reason to deal with his bullshit, which by then will be actively damaging to downticket Republicans.
Click to expand...

Sunday is D-Day, either he outperforms bigly or he's toast.
Early voting is a Dem advantage and only prayer he's got is massive turnout on Election day. If he tanks (he will) he'll never recover and Rs need to do the political calculus and cut their losses.

Question is do Ds follow suit, taking their eyes a bit off the Presidential election?
 
R

RustyNails

Member
nature boy said:
Sunday is D-Day, either he outperforms bigly or he's toast.
Early voting is a Dem advantage and only prayer he's got is massive turnout on Election day. If he tanks (he will) he'll never recover and Rs need to do the political calculus and cut their losses.

Question is do Ds follow suit, taking their eyes a bit off the Presidential election?
Click to expand...
Absolutely nothing suggests Dems take their eyes off the main prize. Maria Cardona said something important last night, and it's that Democrats are working this election with the mindset they are ten points down, meaning they are wanting to balloon her lead to unreachable heights. If in case Assange does release the email where Ben Ghazi killed Vince Foster and pillowed Scalia to death, they will still have a huge advantage.
 
I

IggyChooChoo

Member
Box of Kittens said:
One correction. It's Hoosiers, not Indianans.
Just don't ask about the origin of the word.
Click to expand...
Good point. My son is technically a Hoosier. I should probably try to internalize this information rather than mentally suppressing it every time that fact percolates up to the surface of my consciousness.
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
IggyChooChoo said:
Good point. My son is technically a Hoosier. I should probably try to internalize this information rather than mentally suppressing it every time that fact percolates up to the surface of my consciousness.
Click to expand...

It's really such a bizarre thing. How often does a demonym have so little relation to the place name and have no clear origin? I used to dislike being referred to as a Hoosier but I've come to embrace it (even though I don't live in Indiana any more).
 
E

Emarv

Member
This is the power of the modern media in a nutshell. Hardly anybody has heard a lot of Trump's housing discrimination history despite multiple front page stories.

Ct7colGXgAAdw9Q
 
J

Joeytj

Banned
JP_ said:
So when's wikileaks video go up? Before debate?
Click to expand...

Ir already did, early morning. Turned out to be so much nothing, it made Alex Jones and the alt-right turn against Wikileaks.

Assange basically pulled a Trump and baited the alt-right into watching an hour infomertial.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Joeytj said:
Ir already did, early morning. Turned out to be so much nothing, it made Alex Jones and the alt-right turn against Wikileaks.

Assange basically pulled a Trump and baited the alt-right into watching an hour infomertial.
Click to expand...

This is the funniest shit. I was in that hashtag on twitter and many trump supporters were talking about unfollowing etc lol.
 
N

nature boy

Member
RustyNails said:
Absolutely nothing suggests Dems take their eyes off the main prize. Maria Cardona said something important last night, and it's that Democrats are working this election with the mindset they are ten points down, meaning they are wanting to balloon her lead to unreachable heights. If in case Assange does release the email where Ben Ghazi killed Vince Foster and pillowed Scalia to death, they will still have a huge advantage.
Click to expand...
Tell that to Strickland.

(I'm joking).

whyamihere said:
What Georgia polling has been done recently as a point of reference?
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http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-georgia-president-trump-vs-clinton

Take out the crappy IPSOS/UPI polls and he has a small cushion.
 
K

kevin1025

Banned
CNN had video of Pence and Trump coming out of the Trump plane together, and I swear to god, they were wearing the same pants, same belt, and same shirt, just the shirt was a different color.

Is it possible Trump is making Pence wear his Trump brand clothing...?
 
S

ShadowSwordmaster

Banned
kevin1025 said:
CNN had video of Pence and Trump coming out of the Trump plane together, and I swear to god, they were wearing the same pants, same belt, and same shirt, just the shirt was a different color.

Is it possible Trump is making Pence wear his Trump brand clothing...?
Click to expand...

I'm 75% sure that is the case.
 
A

Abinash117

Member
Emarv said:
This is the power of the modern media in a nutshell. Hardly anybody has heard a lot of Trump's housing discrimination history despite multiple front page stories.

Ct7colGXgAAdw9Q
Click to expand...

I think Hillary really needs to hit on how partial Trump is. She focused on some issues and on his temperament and lack of experience, but not much on how partial he is. The things like the housing discrimination and his prejudice past should immediately disqualify him. She did bring up him screwing his workers, but I don't think she really hammered to down to him being so discriminatory to many people and properly explain it how some like that can be a president.
 
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