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PoliGAF 2016 |OT11| Well this is exciting

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B

Boke1879

Member
aspiegamer said:
Other news: There's a hurricane warning out for Miami. Not that that's any less depressing to think about.

Serious talk, the campaigns need to kill their schedules the rest of the week with a major natural disaster in motion.
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I don't think any of them well be heading to the East coast. I know Obama had to cancel Florida tomorrow.


Also I'll give the win to Pence optically because imo that's how you win a debate. You have to have the look, and Kaine started off rough.

That said I hope the media latches on to a few things. Pence pretty much served himself and I feel that abortion back and forth will look good for the Clinton/Kaine ticket overall. Women and minorities at this point should know better and stay far away from the modern GOP.

This doesn't move the needle at all and I feel after tomorrow we'll be talking about the next big debate on Sunday not to mention a damn Hurricane coming.
 
Z

Zukkoyaki

Member
If anyone really thinks this is going to move the needle at all just check out the betting markets. They've remained unchanged even now.

For reference, they moved about 10 points in favor of Clinton last Monday.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I'll tell you who really lost tonight: Ted Cruz.

Pence established himself as a solid choice for republicans in 2020.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
Plinko said:
Overall analysis is right.

If graded in a vacuum, Pence won this. Most of PoliGAF ignored the fact that Pence had a radio show and is a competent politician when you were writing him off earlier today.

Outside of tonight, though, Hillary's campaign has like 7 new, effective ads from this debate alone. Pence highlighted how bad of a candidate Trump really is.
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I think that was the point. Kaine is usually not that kind of forceful attacker
 
I

Iolo

Member
One thing I found interesting about the CBS focus group was one lady said she liked what Pence was saying, until the religion part. That piece probably won't get much play in the mainstream media — it was for conservative media consumption — but it was part and parcel with what Kaine was trying to hammer home with his "you don't trust women" attacks. I imagine a lot of people don't know about Pence's views (I wish Kaine had brought up the Indiana bill).
 
S

Slayven

Member
Guys we can go back and forth all night on who won the debate, but lets find common ground on agreeing Morning Joe will be hot garbage tomorrow morning.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
The main thing I think of is pence literally only could have helped with white suburban folk.

African Americans heard him say racism isn't real

Mexicans heard him call them "criminal aliens"

Women heard him say he doesn't trust them to make their own choices.

Who cares he didn't call Kaine a poopoo face like Trump would have
 
S

starmud

Member
Is it awful of me to want trump to crack over pence dumping on him and the media picking up the line that tonight was about pence 2020... lol
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
To your regular watcher, Pence absolutely won. We can argue all day about whose arguments were stronger, but Kaine came off as unhinged and immature. Pence, by contrast, seems to bring a competence and professionalism to the Trump campaign that has until now been missing.

That said, Kaine has brought several issues with Trump to national attention. By denying some substantial and easily proven claims about Trump (that Trump respects Putin, or that Trump wants Saudi Arabia to go nuclear), he set the campaign up for simple and effective attack ads. Kaine ran circles around Pence in the final abortion question, which for a sizable portion of voters was probably the most important point of discussion.

This is definitely a short-term win for the Trump folks, but I don't think it will be boost they need to become competitive again.
 
D

Dierce

Member
The problem is not that it will move undecideds I think. I just didn't want to see the orange turd campaign get an injection of optimism going into the truly defining second debate. Even if Clinton does terribly during the second debate I think she will keep her lead but enter dangerous territory.

I just wish Kaine was more prepared for this eventuality and kept the Clinton campaign running in what has been a perfect week without hitches.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Slayven said:
Guys we can go back and forth all night on who won the debate, but lets find common ground on agreeing Morning Joe will be hot garbage tomorrow morning.
Click to expand...
SBVnHu.gif
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
You know what, though? Everybody keeps saying Pence won because of optics, but I remember many people saying the exact same thing about Paul Ryan.
 
E

Emarv

Member
CNN now fact-checking the nuances of "Putin is a better leader" vs "Putin is a stronger leader".


This is our election, folks.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Valhelm said:
To your regular watcher, Pence absolutely won. We can argue all day about whose arguments were stronger, but Kaine came off as unhinged and immature. Pence, by contrast, seems to bring a competence and professionalism to the Trump campaign that has until now been missing.

That said, Kaine has brought several issues with Trump to national attention. By denying some substantial and easily proven claims about Trump (that Trump respects Putin, or that Trump wants Saudi Arabia to go nuclear), he set the campaign up for simple and effective attack ads. Kaine ran circles around Pence in the final abortion question, which for a sizable portion of voters was probably the most important point of discussion.

This is definitely a short-term win for the Trump folks, but I don't think it will be boost they need to become competitive again.
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Wouldn't have moved the needle even if Kaine won. In the focus groups not one person said this would change their minds. Unfortunately for Pence he's not running for President right now.

If I'm the Clinton campaign you definitely hit him on saying racism isn't real, don't trust women to make their own choices etc. And you hit him for not defending his running mate and imply he's setting himself up for 2020.
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
Dierce said:
I agree, it isn't important to us but do you think undecidededs really care about facts? Why the hell are they undecided in the first place when the choice is Clinton and mother fucking conman trump.
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There's no such thing as undecided voters right now (okay, maybe like 2 of them in the country). There's just people who will vote and people who won't. I really don't see this changing that for either camp here; Pence didn't calm anyone's fears about Trump ruining their stock holdings (the only lean R people who aren't voting are people who care about this shit) and Kaine didn't do anything to lose the fickle youth vote that Hillary just got to move this past week.

I don't think the race tomorrow is any different than it was today. Even the attack ads aren't going to matter that much in the end; in 5 days, we'll have way more material on Trump himself instead of Pence.

Plinko said:
Overall analysis is right.

If graded in a vacuum, Pence won this. Most of PoliGAF ignored the fact that Pence had a radio show and is a competent politician when you were writing him off earlier today.

Outside of tonight, though, Hillary's campaign has like 7 new, effective ads from this debate alone. Pence highlighted how bad of a candidate Trump really is.
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I largely agree with this. Pence really didn't help the ticket out, he helped himself. He definitely won this debate, but HE specifically won this debate, not the Trump/Pence ticket.
 
D

Diablos

Member
My gut feeling: Pence wins on style -- specifically bullshitting/deflecting and looking calm

Kaine wins on substance. The clips will favor him especially when combined with fact checking.

CNN already calling Pence out for lying
 
M

Mizerman

Member
Diablos said:
My gut feeling: Pence wins on style -- specifically bullshitting/deflecting and looking calm

Kaine wins on substance. The clips will favor him especially when combined with fact checking.

CNN already calling Pence out for lying
Click to expand...

That's the thing. Pence may have won the battle, but he lost the war.
 
T

thestopsign

Member
Dierce said:
The problem is not that it will move undecideds I think. I just didn't want to see the orange turd campaign get an injection of optimism going into the truly defining second debate. Even if Clinton does terribly during the second debate I think she will keep her lead but enter dangerous territory.

I just wish Kaine was more prepared for this eventuality and kept the Clinton campaign running in what has been a perfect week without hitches.
Click to expand...

Kaine was very well prepared and I see what he was trying to do in trying to get Pence to defend Donald Trump whenever Pence was saying something counter to what Donald has said in the past. He just should have dialed it back just a hair and been more respectful to the moderator.
 
O

Owzers

Member
Attacking the Clinton Foundation as a ponzi scheme when the Trump foundation is a slush fund, if only there were journalists present.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Polls on the debate might be vastly different depending on when they're taken

I think tomorrow will be a a day of the media ripping Pence's blatant lies apart, and so polls taken after he gets ripped to shreds will be very different than polls taken tonight
 
E

Effect

Member
Diablos said:
My gut feeling: Pence wins on style -- specifically bullshitting/deflecting and looking calm

Kaine wins on substance. The clips will favor him especially when combined with fact checking.

CNN already calling Pence out for lying
Click to expand...

I wonder if that will be talk in the morning. Pence's lies and how he didn't defend Trump. Not about who won which will be a very shallow critique and a very short discussion if you ignore the actual substance.
 
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