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PoliGAF 2016 |OT11| Well this is exciting

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Brexit wasn't some polling disaster. Not a single one of the big pollsters other than ComRes called it outside of the margin of error. Survation got it perfectly. About half of them were wrong about the result, but that's because it was a knife edge result and that's what margin of error does to knife edge results. I don't get why he keeps comparing it to Brexit. The polling moral of Brexit is that: Clinton is probably winning, but learn how to MoE.

Isn't that kind of his point though? Polls wise it wasn't, but the commentary and predictions were totally off base.

~2% is a nothing lead.

Hillary is about that ahead right now, hence why it's close on the model with a slight advantage to Clinton. Saying otherwise is to make assumptions that can't be said with certainty, in my opinion anyway.
 
He's an asshole because he's being an asshole and is trash besmirching the good name of his namesake deity.

Also why is everyone cheering forma telling off a huge bank CEO as if he knows fuckall what's happening at like branch level that led to rounding era revenue? Other than I guess fuck banks and money and stuff
.

because the left has no ideas on how to actually fix things besides railing against an avatar of their "enemy"
 
Isn't that kind of his point though? Polls wise it wasn't, but the commentary and predictions were totally off base.

~2% is a nothing lead.

Hillary is about that ahead right now, hence why it's close on the model with a slight advantage to Clinton. Saying otherwise is to make assumptions that can't be said with certainty, in my opinion anyway.

Brexit didn't have an electoral college. If it did, it probably wouldn't have passed. The EC is a huge difference, a big enough difference that the comparisons are meaningless. It's two entirely different systems with two entirely different methods of polling. Presidential elections have decades of predictions and data behind it. Brexit was a single vote.

To me, Nate pulling the "bu bu but Brexit" card is basically the data equivalent of jumping the shark.
 
Isn't that kind of his point though? Polls wise it wasn't, but the commentary and predictions were totally off base.

~2% is a nothing lead.

Hillary is about that ahead right now, hence why it's close on the model with a slight advantage to Clinton.

But they're not comparable. We don't run one election in November. We run 51. And she is not ahead by less than 2% in the number of elections that make up 270 electoral votes.

Brexit comparisons are intellectually lazy.
 
Brexit didn't have an electoral college. If it did, it probably wouldn't have passed. The EC is a huge difference, a big enough difference that the comparisons are meaningless. It's two entirely different systems with two entirely different methods of polling. Presidential elections have decades of predictions and data behind it. Brexit was a single vote.

To me, Nate pulling the "bu bu but Brexit" card is basically the data equivalent of jumping the shark.

He's talking about perception of how tight/how comfortable things are. It's not a direct data comparison, surely it goes without saying that would be ridiculous.

I don't think 2% is very comfy for Clinton in any voting system.
 
He's talking about perception of how tight/how comfortable things are. It's not a direct data comparison, surely it goes without saying that would be ridiculous.

I don't think 2% is very comfy for Clinton in any voting system.

A 2% lead is meaningless when she has a comfortable lead in enough states to hit 270. And that's really all that matters at the end of the day.
 

sazzy

Member
He should've simply said, Look I'm the campaign manager, do you have any questions about the campaign we are running?
 

Gotchaye

Member
All that tells me is that 538 is more reflective of the polls at face value than those other outlets. Those are p. tight right now so 56% seems normal?

I guess it's up to the individual to decide if that's for them or they are holding out hope on turnout and ground game.

This is the concern, yes. Obviously you shouldn't be doing an "if the election were held today" type chance of victory calculation as an election forecast. Because the polls are going to drift. You know that the polls right before the election are pretty likely to have moved from the polls in July, and so even if one candidate is so ahead in July that the outcome would be really certain if the election had been held then, there's a lot more uncertainty as to who's going to win the actual election months later. Because you know that the polls move, and because random movement in the polls is more helpful to the person who's losing, earlier predictions from the same polling position should be closer to 50%.

What's concerning about 538's model is that it's 80% Clinton at the start of July, then 50% Clinton a month later, then 90% Clinton a few weeks later, and now back to 57% Clinton a month later. This is saying that lots of really important and weird things are happening in the race. It's not, or at least it shouldn't be, saying that Clinton was a bit ahead in the polls, then tied, then way ahead, and now she only has a slight lead. It's saying that, whatever was going to happen between July and November, Clinton was very likely to win. But then a month later it's saying no that was wrong, something happened to give us more information on the race and now it's anybody's game. But then almost immediately after that Trump's chances of winning were reduced to basically nothing. No, wait, now Clinton is only a slight favorite and Trump is back in this. I know they like to use sports analogies, so what 538's model is saying has happened in this race is that one team pulled out to a big early lead, then the game was tied up, then the first team again built up a nearly-insurmountable lead, and then the second team almost caught up again. This doesn't happen very often. A team that gets a big early lead is likely to win the game just because it's hard for the other team to catch up. It's true that sometimes you do get a really exciting game with reversals and comebacks left and right, but those are rare, and the issue here is that we're theorizing about what the score really is and how hard it is for people to come back without having direct access to that information.

Their polls-plus looks a lot less like a roller coaster, though of course what's going on here is just that the stuff they're particularly known for is being weighted less.

But their polls-only actually just looks an awful lot like their now-cast. You can see that this would look a whole lot nicer if they'd just added in a huge amount of uncertainty early on (biasing towards 50%), slowing decaying until today. That doesn't mean that it really was this uncertain the whole time, but that seems a lot more likely than all the reversals implied by their model.
 
It's fun looking at the morons the GOP puts up in safe Democrat seats. This "winner" is going against Louise Slaughter, who has been my congresswoman for my entire life, and nobody can even humor the idea of her not being our representative because she just always has been and will be until she retires.

So they put up a dud who said this in 2010
Assini supported a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage, called transgender Americans "mentally disturbed," and agreed with comments calling members of the LGBTQ community sexual deviants.
So she, rightfully, is attacking him hard for these comments.

His response?
"I will say this, it's time to start talking about issues in the here and now, not what happened 20 years ago or over a decade ago,”
20 years ago, eh? But... 2010 was only 6 years ago.

Also understand that Rochester, NY is a gay friendly city, so saying stuff like this is basically campaign ending.

Why does the GOP even waste money running these people in safe Democrat areas?
 

Zukkoyaki

Member
^That's basically what Sam Wang said when he addressed the 538 model in July/August. Basically it's solid for getting a snapshot of what's going on in the race here in the moment (even that is still up to debate given some of the dreadful pieces of data they include) but not good for a solid and stable prediction.
 
Kenneth P. VogelVerified account
‏@kenvogel
August campaign staff sizes/payroll:
Trump: 140 employees paid a total of $643k
Clinton: 789 employees paid a total of $3.3M

i20f93.gif
 

HylianTom

Banned
I just realized: we've seen relatively little discussion about what may be the most anticipated Presidential debate in decades. Usually the week before is all about setting expectations, and other news events have conspired to deny Trump this essential media exercise.

^That's basically what Sam Wang said when he addressed the 538 model in July/August. Basically it's solid for getting a snapshot of what's going on in the race here in the moment (even that is still up to debate given some of the dreadful pieces of data they include) but not good for a solid and stable prediction.

*SoGood.gif*
 
I just realized: we've seen relatively little discussion about what may be the most anticipated Presidential debate in decades. Usually the week before is all about setting expectations, and other news events have conspired to deny Trump this essential media exercise.



*SoGood.gif*

I don't know, every terrible pundit show I watch is literally updating the number of days until the debate when they open.
 
What did Mook say? What was bad about it? Missed it.

TBH, I'm tired of Clinton campaign fumbling. That is what will kill the election for them. If shit goes real bad during the debate that is when I'm going to "diablos", "bedwet". I don't see a good recovery from the debate like 2012.

I'm being cautious about Monday. Not hyped for it, but not freaking out either.
 

Boke1879

Member
I just realized: we've seen relatively little discussion about what may be the most anticipated Presidential debate in decades. Usually the week before is all about setting expectations, and other news events have conspired to deny Trump this essential media exercise.

Well it seems a few people think the debates are already lost. That no matter how well Clinton does Trump will dominate the headlines simply for not shitting his pants or saying something so outrageous.
 
What did Mook say? What was bad about it? Missed it.

TBH, I'm tired of Clinton campaign fumbling. That is what will kill the election for them. If shit goes real bad during the debate that is when I'm going to "diablos", "bedwet". I don't see a good recovery from the debate like 2012.

I'm being cautious about Monday. Not hyped for it, but not freaking out either.

They were asking him policy questions and all he would say is "I'm going to let the Secretary's words speak for themselves" or "our policy is on our website". He was stumbling and wouldn't answer anything. It got so bad several people were asking him if he wasn't going to answer anything, why was he on the show
 

thefro

Member
They were asking him policy questions and all he would say is "I'm going to let the Secretary's words speak for themselves" or "our policy is on our website". He was stumbling and wouldn't answer anything. It got so bad several people were asking him if he wasn't going to answer anything, why was he on the show

He's a campaign manager, not a policy adviser. A lot of those are stupid questions.

Whoever her version of Axelrod is needs to be doing this stuff, not Mook.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
All 7 people saw the campaign manager stonewall morning joe so this is bad. Boy sure hope Hillary is more prepared for the debate than Robby mook
 

Holmes

Member
Joe Scarbarfrough wants to make this another Johnson Aleppo moment but it was just a campaign manager and it's not like he said "what is Aleppo" he just kept deferring to Clinton's plans/website. Which is annoying in a guest but pundits are lame either way.
 
Is Drag Race seriously only going to be on Logo tomorrow night? I can't go back to lousy SD after finally getting to watch it in HD on VH1.

This election is a roller coaster.
 
All 7 people saw the campaign manager stonewall morning joe so this is bad. Boy sure hope Hillary is more prepared for the debate than Robby mook
He should know the basic outline of her plans at least. Jeez. Syria? No fly zone. Aid convoy? Talk to turkey. Refugee crisis? Open borders, vetting. Come on, its not rocket fucking science.
 
Joe Scarbarfrough wants to make this another Johnson Aleppo moment but it was just a campaign manager and it's not like he said "what is Aleppo" he just kept deferring to Clinton's plans/website. Which is annoying in a guest but pundits are lame either way.

The question about aid to Aleppo after the bombing of the aid trucks was especially horseshit. There are a thousand moving parts.
 

royalan

Member
On one hand, that definitely looked bad.

But....why the hell were they asking Robby Mook about Obama's foreign policy decisions? Hillary only had a hand in making those decisions, she didn't make them herself. Questions about the red line? Why the fuck would he have known any of that in the detail they were expecting? He's her campaign manager, not one of her foreign policy advisers from her years as SoS.

That was a hit. But Robby needs to learn how to not even try to answer a question he doesn't know the answer to.
 

Boke1879

Member
By the way. I haven't watched any news today but has the most recent cop killing gotten and play? That's what's been frustrating me the most tbh.

Also Clinton will be giving a speech today about increasing opportunities for disabled Americans
 
By the way. I haven't watched any news today but has the most recent cop killing gotten and play? That's what's been frustrating me the most tbh.

Also Clinton will be giving a speech today about increasing opportunities for disabled Americans

It's all over the news
 
By the way. I haven't watched any news today but has the most recent cop killing gotten and play? That's what's been frustrating me the most tbh.

Also Clinton will be giving a speech today about increasing opportunities for disabled Americans

It's the featured story on all of the major networks this morning, at least on their websites.
 
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