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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented

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A

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
Joe Shlabotnik said:
Not for nothing but there's clearly no obvious candidate now and there isn't much to discuss about it. It's okay. Obama was only talked about in 2004 as a maybe 2012/2016 future star. Nobody was talking about Bill Clinton in 1988 except for his spectacularly terrible DNC speech. In fact no one was really talking about Bill Clinton until, like, 1992.
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You're right, I'm just trying to make myself feel better lol
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Maledict said:
Nixons VP resigned before Nixon, for a totally unrelated matter (bribery and tax evasion). Ford was selected as VP by Nixon and confirmed before watergate destroyed him.

(Ford was only house minority leader at the time, not majority).
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I don't see a situation where Trump comes under fire for a bad hire and Pence is clean. Especially now with direct confirmation Pence and Trump are working together to build the cabinet.

The entire Nixon administration was brought down by different things, but corruption breeds corruption.
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
I think the only thing that can undermine Republicans and Trump is if they appear to stand by idly as an American city is flooded. Heaven knows, they seem to avoid the consequences for everything else that happens.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
Joe Shlabotnik said:
Not for nothing but there's clearly no obvious candidate now and there isn't much to discuss about it. It's okay. Obama was only talked about in 2004 as a maybe 2012/2016 future star. Nobody was talking about Bill Clinton in 1988 except for his spectacularly terrible DNC speech. In fact no one was really talking about Bill Clinton until, like, 1992.
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Yes. Brain storming about 2020 is not the problem that people need to look at right now. Would love to see the next OP focus on practical steps for activism.

This includes:

Listing the Trump supporter boycott orgs

Organizations in need of support to oppose trump

Resources for how to intervene when seeing abuse in public

Contact lookups for congress-critters, including important issues and guides for getting their attention

Local orgs gaffers can get in touch with close to home
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Randolph Freelander said:
I think the only thing that can undermine Republicans and Trump is if they appear to stand by idly as an American city is flooded. Heaven knows, they seem to avoid the consequences for everything else that happens.
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He has one year until 2017's hurricane season

He better be prepared. Whatever oil tycoon he hires to run FEMA better know what they're doing. Hurricanes are only going to get worse as global warming messes with the oceans
 
P

Pixieking

Banned
Gruco said:
Yes. Brain storming about 2020 is not the problem that people need to look at right now. Would love to see the next OP focus on practical steps for activism.

This includes:

Listing the Trump supporter boycott orgs

Organizations in need of support to oppose trump

Resources for how to intervene when seeing abuse in public

Contact lookups for congress-critters, including important issues and guides for getting their attention

Local orgs gaffers can get in touch with close to home
Click to expand...

Is it worth (and allowable) retro-actively editing the first post in this thread to list all that? It's definitely relevant, and would save repeating some things every few days. Considering we're only on page 112 of this thread...
 
R

RastaMentality

Banned
I hope the Black Panthers return in a significant way of Giuliani or any of Trump's other racist nutcases end up heading the justice department. and not the joke of a group we have now.
 
D

Debirudog

Member
RustyNails said:
Well yes and no.

NoI is a racist, black supremacist organization. It was founded in a reaction to white racism. The civil rights and black youth movement in the 60's fueled the rise of black power groups like NoI and black panthers party. Malcolm X and Muhammad Ali joined NoI because they were fierce in their opposition to white supremacy and NoI provided the outlet. However, read up on Warith Deen Muhammad. He recognized the inequality taught by NoI and sought to slowly remove the racist elements from within. He's responsible for tuning out hundreds of thousands of prospective NoI members from the cult toward traditional Sunni Islam. Even turning NoI temples into traditional Islamic mosques. Louis Farrakhan was the disciple of early NoI rulers (Wallace Fard Muhammad, Hon. Elijah Muhammad) and sought to instill the black supremacy back into NoI. He ousted Warith Deen from the church, and NoI became the racist black movement again (which it still is today). However, it's numbers are so miniscule they can be easily ignored (thanks to Warith's work).

But blaming early black leaders for joining BPP or NoI and holding them to it is shortsighted (as Fox News is doing right now). Yes, it should be mentioned if someone was part of NoI. But it should also be just as important to learn at which points (Elijah Muhammad's time, Warith Deen's time or Farrakhan?) and whether they renounced their NoI views. Both Malcolm X and Muhammad Ali saw the inequality of NoI's message. Malcolm X's thoughts on NoI and race relations are so eye opening and relevant even to this day. His journey to Mecca is something out of a fairy tale, as the curtain from his eyes slowly gets pulled away. His autobiography is a must read for everyone on poligaf.
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Ah, forgive me for some of my ignorance then, I mostly read up on Malcolm X's history, who I deeply admire as one of the unsung heroes of black history.
 
M

Mercury Fred

Banned
Gruco said:
Yes. Brain storming about 2020 is not the problem that people need to look at right now. Would love to see the next OP focus on practical steps for activism.

This includes:

Listing the Trump supporter boycott orgs

Organizations in need of support to oppose trump

Resources for how to intervene when seeing abuse in public

Contact lookups for congress-critters, including important issues and guides for getting their attention

Local orgs gaffers can get in touch with close to home
Click to expand...
A resistance and organizing megathread would be fantastic. Anyone up for it?
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
I can add that stuff if a mod can edit in the thread archive.

Retro was nice to send it to me, but I can't fucking copy and paste it into the OP for some reason, fuck :mad:

Anyway, election strategies moving forward though.

-Never ever do outreach to neo-Confederates or White Evangelicals obsessed with a holy war with Islam. Fight them in everything, don't even pretend to care about them. Show the failings of their God Emperor so they feel betrayed and don't vote moving forward.

-Try to make suburban people who live near non-white people more woke so they can't tolerate horrific racism for a taxbreak. We have no research on how to do this which is a problem though...

-The marks who voted for Trump should be constantly reminded about how Trump stole so much money from the government (he will) and how he failed to bring back manufacturing jobs (he will fail at bringing them back).

Can Duckworth run if she was born in Thailand? I remember there was some sort of technicality that would have allowed Cruz to run.
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If one of your parents is American, you are a natural born citizen and can run for president.
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
GurgleBot20 said:
Can Duckworth run if she was born in Thailand? I remember there was some sort of technicality that would have allowed Cruz to run.
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The prevailing opinion is that if your parent is a citizen, then you are a naturally born citizen regardless of your place of birth. I don't think this is entirely settled by case law, as Trump in particular floated the possibility of a court challenge if Cruz had pulled ahead in the nomination race. (Perhaps it is settled and this challenge would have been laughed out of court.)
 
M

Maledict

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
I don't see a situation where Trump comes under fire for a bad hire and Pence is clean. Especially now with direct confirmation Pence and Trump are working together to build the cabinet.

The entire Nixon administration was brought down by different things, but corruption breeds corruption.
Click to expand...

But it wasn't brought down - Ford was the VP and he took over as the constitution says. One of reasons the VP has literally no power in the USA constitution is so that they can take over if necessary. Nixons VP resigned because of crimes that happened when he was governor of Maryland, and it was absolutely nothing to do with being in the White House or anything to do with his time serving under Nixon.

Seriously, it would take something precedented to bring Pence down with Trump, and what we know about both of them suggests that's incredibly unlikely. Anything that brings Trump down is going to be related to it being Trump, and Pence won't be part of that. Remember, it would have to be republican house members and senators starting this process and impeaching him, and they won't do that to destroy both Trump and Pence. They would be very happy to get rid of Trump though I suspect and have Pence take over..
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Frank the Great said:
I like many others, are very concerned about the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program getting wiped out. I whipped up and sent in this letter today to my Republican congressman and Senator Booker, and I advise (implore) others affected by this issue to do the same. Feel free to use my letter as a base.
Click to expand...

Welp, now I'm terrified again. After reading about Trump's feelings on PSLF, I feel like I'm screwed. I can only hope and pray they don't go for a hard 12.5% loan payment and instead allow for families with kids to have a lower payment. If not, I honestly don't see how we'll survive.

I echo the sentiment: CALL the local office. They have to listen to you. That's the best way.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Have we ever had a president who won't touch alcohol?

Just wondering what Trump does at social events? With foreign leaders in heavy drinking countries? His reasons for not drinking are like the one human aspect of him that I can respect.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
-Try to make suburban people who live near non-white people more woke so they can't tolerate horrific racism for a taxbreak. We have no research on how to do this which is a problem though...
Click to expand...
http://www.vox.com/identities/2016/11/15/13595508/racism-trump-research-study

I think this is a reachable group, full of Jeb voters who are already not keen on Trump. Plus, it is likely a group that most of urban liberal elites are already well connected with.

Changing minds involves a LOT of active listening, time, and relaying personal feelings and experience about equality.

While I am a straight white dude, I plan on talking with anyone willing to listen about the hate crimes near where I live and how that has affected the lives of some of my closest friends and my sister-in-law, who happen to be Muslim.

This is also how America changed its mind on gay marriage so quickly. Networks made it personal. Harder sell here though. Thanks bin laden.

I would be willing to spend some time working on a broad activism guide over Thanksgiving weekend. Mostly pooling resources.
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
Joe Shlabotnik said:
Not for nothing but there's clearly no obvious candidate now and there isn't much to discuss about it. It's okay. Obama was only talked about in 2004 as a maybe 2012/2016 future star. Nobody was talking about Bill Clinton in 1988 except for his spectacularly terrible DNC speech. In fact no one was really talking about Bill Clinton until, like, 1992.
Click to expand...

Harry Reid and Tom Dashchle were floating Obama 08 in 2005/2006, there was talk among liberal groups about it, iirc Kos (from Daily Kos) floated it too in opposition to Clinton due to the Iraq war vote. I remember people in Chicago talking about it immediately after Kerry lost. Personally I thought Obama was too soft to win against the Clintons and blew it off.

Clinton was also floated for 1988 after Cuomo refused to run.

Those conversations happen days and weeks after an election. I'm sure there are donors who have expressed their disappointment in the election results to Booker, Warren, Newsom, etc while hinting that they will support them in 2016. If enough people buy it the party begins advising and protecting their potential candidates. I'm guessing Booker and Warren will receive that treatment next year. Protection as in helping a candidate avoid potential trap/poison votes in the senate, giving them "don't fuck this up" pep talks in relation to affairs/adultry, etc.
 
1

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
What is american media telling americans about the refugee situation in the EU?
I've been reading and arguing a lot recently and so many americans cite Europe, especially Germany(where I live) and Sweden, as negative examples.
These people somehow got told that shits bad here because of the refugees, when actually nothing much changed except for the fact that you see more black people in cities.
Economy is doing good, its still as safe as ever, job market is excellent.

I don't even know what to respond when people try to justify their anti refugee position with how bad things are in Europe.... Fucker, we're doing better than you!
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Cesare Borgia said:
Harry Reid and Tom Dashchle were floating Obama 08 in 2005/2006, there was talk among liberal groups about it, iirc Kos (from Daily Kos) floated it too in opposition to Clinton due to the Iraq war vote. I remember people in Chicago talking about it immediately after Kerry lost. Personally I thought Obama was too soft to win against the Clintons and blew it off.

Clinton was also floated for 1988 after Cuomo refused to run.

Those conversations happen days and weeks after an election. I'm sure there are donors who have expressed their disappointment in the election results to Booker, Warren, Newsom, etc while hinting that they will support them in 2016. If enough people buy it the party begins advising and protecting their potential candidates. I'm guessing Booker and Warren will receive that treatment next year. Protection as in helping a candidate avoid potential trap/poison votes in the senate, giving them "don't fuck this up" pep talks in relation to affairs/adultry, etc.
Click to expand...
Ugh, booker is a dud.

Warren's populism is where the party is atm. But she's just as horrible as Hillary in giving speeches, and nominating another woman for 2020 will give rural white dumbfucks another reason to stay with Trump.

Newsome lol.
 
B

Barzul

Member
I wish we could get someone who has military service in 2020. This country worships our military and it'd be easy to call out Trump for dodging the draft etc. Make that a big part of the campaign attacks after he inevitably fucks shit up, double whammy of sort. Big reason I wished Kander won the Senate. Is there something he can vie for in 2018? Needs to be in Washington to even be considered by donors I think.
 
M

Mirand

Member
Barzul said:
I wish we could get someone who has military service in 2020. This country worships our military and it'd be easy to call out Trump for dodging the draft etc. Make that a big part of the campaign attacks after he inevitably fucks shit up, double whammy of sort. Big reason I wished Kander won the Senate. Is there something he can vie for in 2018? Needs to be in Washington to even be considered by donors I think.
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TULSI2020
 
J

jmdajr

Member
Can't believable I am living in the biggest fucking train wreck in modern times.

It's unfolding in real time before my eyes.
 
1

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Barzul said:
I wish we could get someone who has military service in 2020. This country worships our military and it'd be easy to call out Trump for dodging the draft etc. Make that a big part of the campaign attacks after he inevitably fucks shit up, double whammy of sort. Big reason I wished Kander won the Senate. Is there something he can vie for in 2018? Needs to be in Washington to even be considered by donors I think.
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Tulsi Gabbard. I like her.

Edit: Mirand, my dude.
 
O

Odrion

Banned
Pixieking said:
I think "fight" and "resist" both have more power than "Stand Up". It's... A bit wishy-washy liberal? As though standing-up for something does anything.

I would suggest "Fight". I think we should start co-opting right-wing messaging standards, which verge on the violent. And that's essentially what we are doing - fighting for voting rights, fighting for women's rights, fighting for LGBTQ rights.

I get that it could be misinterpreted to incite violence, but I think you need a strong word there to shock people. (Which is also why "resist" is good, but I think that falls closer to violence than fight does - "armed resistance", for example.
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alright, made some changes
Po1S1TV.jpg
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R

RustyNails

Member
Barzul said:
I wish we could get someone who has military service in 2020. This country worships our military and it'd be easy to call out Trump for dodging the draft etc. Make that a big part of the campaign attacks after he inevitably fucks shit up, double whammy of sort. Big reason I wished Kander won the Senate. Is there something he can vie for in 2018? Needs to be in Washington to even be considered by donors I think.
Click to expand...
Maybe he sidesteps into private sector and starts a small business? That should resonate with a big segment. Trump will have no course to attack him for lack of experience.
 
Q

QuiteWhittle

Member
Barzul said:
I wish we could get someone who has military service in 2020. This country worships our military and it'd be easy to call out Trump for dodging the draft etc. Make that a big part of the campaign attacks after he inevitably fucks shit up, double whammy of sort. Big reason I wished Kander won the Senate. Is there something he can vie for in 2018? Needs to be in Washington to even be considered by donors I think.
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Seth Moulton.
 
P

Pixieking

Banned
Teggy said:
So people would lose their insurance right before the election?
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That's bizarre... No way the GOP would do that, surely? It gives the Dems a massive plank to campaign on, with an electorate who'll eat-up getting medical insurance back.

Breitbart News is preparing a lawsuit against a "major media company" over claims that it is a white nationalist website, it said in an exclusive statement to The Hill.
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Ohhhhh...This is gonna be good.
 
T

Trurl

Banned
A part of me hopes that Trump is such a disaster that the GOP is completely discredited, but I'm also hoping that nobody gets hurt. Unfortunately these a just about mutually exclusive. Reading about Trump's apparent incompetence with staffing is entertaining, but that's not a disaster only the prelude to disaster. Disaster is the response to Katrina and that's not something that I would ever hope for.
 
M

maabus1999

Member
Again, most of these folks (that actually matter policy wise) need to be confirmed outside of a recess appointment.

The GOP does not have a large enough majority to outright pass controversial picks to be honest. May get lots of failures from Trump until he learns (probably angrily) how the Senate works...or waits for a recess which the Dems can try to delay for a long time...
 
A

Abinash117

Member
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/trump-christie-transition-231390

The transition team has yet to publicly release a code of ethics for itself or for nominees. And an aide to a person being considered for a top Cabinet position said the person had not yet been asked to complete a detailed questionnaire to suss out red flags.

Trump was slated to meet Tuesday with Vice President-elect Mike Pence to review names in hopes of announcing nominees for key Cabinet posts in the coming weeks.
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By comparison, the Obama administration was deep into the vetting process by early November — not just meeting with prospective nominees but compiling fat dossiers on them, according to emails made public through WikiLeaks. The Obama team also released a code of ethics for transition team members just a few days after the election to limit the influence of special interests. The Trump transition team, meanwhile, is full of lobbyists and has not released such a code.
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The Trump transition team has not yet made public its internal code of conduct, nor did it respond to a request for comment about it.

Nonetheless, Trump’s closest aides are meeting with prospective candidates in hopes of announcing nominees for key Cabinet posts in the coming weeks, sources told POLITICO.

Going forward, sources familiar with the team said they expect the operation to have a more top-down structure, with the president-elect’s closest advisers, such as Vice President Mike Pence, Sen. Jeff Sessions, newly named chief of staff Reince Priebus, political strategist Steve Bannon and Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner bulldozing much of the former transition leaders’ existing work and making Cabinet decisions on their own, in consultation with Trump.

Trump’s aides are focused on recruiting allies and loyalists who they have long hoped to install in top Cabinet posts, such as Sessions, or Trump donor and Goldman Sach’s veteran, Steven Mnuchin, for Treasury secretary.

One person who has talked to transition officials compared their approach to that of Dick Cheney, who ran George W. Bush’s transition team.

“Cheney had his own list in his head and he appointed the people he wanted,” the person said, adding that there are factions within the Trump transition that are each pushing their preferred candidates from Sessions’ loyalists, to Heritage Foundation wonks, to Trump’s campaign staff, to conservative activists who admire Pence.

The Trump transition team is also working to develop cohesive policies aimed at vetting nominees and protecting against conflicts of interest. Trump’s transition website, greatagain.gov, says candidates for jobs in his administration will be subjected to a full FBI background check and they must complete a “Personal Data Statement.”

The statement includes questions about “possible conflicts of interest deriving from your sources of income; all aspects of your personal and professional life, including organizations to which you belong or once belonged; speeches you may have given and books, articles and editorials you may have written; legal, administrative and regulatory proceedings to which you may have been a party,” according to the website, which urges candidates to disclose “anything that might embarrass the President or you if he should choose you for a position in his administration.”
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Also sleepy left and won't be in the government. May not get a full government. I wonder if they can just hire Obama's people. The candidates all have conflicting interests the Senate may not confirm some of them.
 
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