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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented

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A

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
shinra-bansho said:
Seriously, everyone pretending that their hindsight is the same as foresight is getting annoying as hell.

You had people complaining about doing too many localised events rather than national addresses.

People bemoaning a lack of Latino emphasis. Or youth emphasis. Or black emphasis.

People applauding decrying the deplorables for what they are.

People so sure she would sweep and take some traditionally red territory.

I sure was wrong wrong wrong.
And so was everyone else.
Click to expand...
We all have crow to eat. At least we have pundits and forecasters for company.
 
H

hipsterpants

Member
Considering how much Trump got away with, I really wonder how bad things are in the more rural parts of the U.S. If I remember correctly people were talking about that being a huge blind spot in media's reporting on the state of the country.

The GOP has done a masterful job of convincing so many of these people that they are the party that can fix things for them (a blatant lie obviously). The fact that references to an infrastructure bill always talk about Trump working with the Dems rather than the GOP says enough. Stuff like Kander running so far ahead of Hillary show that a lot of working class voters aren't GOP4life like some people in this thread seem to fear. You just need an effective messenger!
 
N

Nelo Ice

Banned
hipsterpants said:
Considering how much Trump got away with, I really wonder how bad things are in the more rural parts of the U.S. If I remember correctly people were talking about that being a huge blind spot in media's reporting on the state of the country.

The GOP has done a masterful job of convincing so many of these people that they are the party that can fix things for them (a blatant lie obviously). The fact that references to an infrastructure bill always talk about Trump working with the Dems rather than the GOP says enough. Stuff like Kander running so far ahead of Hillary show that a lot of working class voters aren't GOP4life like some people in this thread seem to fear. You just need an effective messenger!
Click to expand...
People like Kander give me hope this can be turned around. Only problem being so much devastation will happen before we can fix this.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
faisal233 said:
Sigh, I hope Clinton goes away after this. I supported Bernie, and I came onboard for Clinton. But this loss is so tragic because it was so winnable and the concequences are so severe. I would like the Clinton's to pull a Bush and disappear.
Click to expand...

It seems to me that he's trying to help raise money for an organization that helps children? Unless I'm misunderstanding something why is this a bad thing? If she can spend the rest of her life helping people in small, lower-key ways that seems like obviously a good thing?
 
M

Manmademan

Member
hipsterpants said:
Considering how much Trump got away with, I really wonder how bad things are in the more rural parts of the U.S.
Click to expand...

my understanding is that it's not great, but it's more perception than reality.

Just as most Americans say they hate Congress but routinely vote for their local congressmen, most Republicans seem to detect a national economic malaise while — with some exceptions in places like coal country and the oil patch — touting the economic progress in their local communities. They square that circle in a variety of ways — crediting their Republican mayors and governors, accusing Obama of manipulating data, or citing legitimate weaknesses in the recovery from the Great Recession.
Click to expand...

Again and again, delegates said they didn’t trust the official unemployment figures, or that the “labor participation rate” (which has declined under Obama, largely because of baby boomers retiring) is more important, or that the new jobs are only part-time, when in fact part-time employment has been flat. But there also was reality-based concern about stagnant wages and tepid growth, problems that Hillary Clinton and especially Bernie Sanders have also discussed, as well as some principled ideological disagreement with Obama’s tax increases on upper-income earners and stepped-up environmental and financial regulations.
Click to expand...

With the exception of coal country (of which there aren't anywhere NEAR as many coal workers as the GOP would like voters to think) and US oil fields (which were in a boom that went bust when the OPEC started flooding the market and there is nothing you can do there) middle america isn't in some state of irreversible decay- but there's a PERCEPTION that it is.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/rnc-convention-gop-delegates-economy-is-great-214068

you'll see over and over these people point to the decline in manufacturing jobs, and the need to bring them back as some kind of magic bullet- but there was nothing magical about manufacturing. What those voters are missing are UNION jobs with good pay and benefits that just happened to be in manufacturing. Bringing television or shoe manufacturing back from overseas so they can make minimum wage over horrible hours and conditions would do nothing. But Republicans have ironically convinced them all that Unions are the problem, so they dismantle them and vote for "right to work" laws that make it harder for high paying jobs to exist.

The GOP has done a masterful job of convincing so many of these people that they are the party that can fix things for them (a blatant lie obviously). The fact that references to an infrastructure bill always talk about Trump working with the Dems rather than the GOP says enough. Stuff like Kander running so far ahead of Hillary show that a lot of working class voters aren't GOP4life like some people in this thread seem to fear. You just need an effective messenger!
Click to expand...

agree.
 
O

Odrion

Banned
Boke1879 said:
That's completely fair, but I refuse to and want this place to also be about calling out fellow posters of like minded goals to simply say "I told you so"
Click to expand...

her campaign was shitty and it resulted with us trapped in this nightmare hellworld and I won't stop shitting on her shitty campaign from a great height when there's new evidence because it's the only solace I have in this nightmare hellworld
 
A

Abinash117

Member
Manmademan said:
my understanding is that it's not great, but it's more perception than reality.





With the exception of coal country (of which there aren't anywhere NEAR as many coal workers as the GOP would like voters to think) and US oil fields (which were in a boom that went bust when the OPEC started flooding the market and there is nothing you can do there) middle america isn't in some state of irreversible decay- but there's a PERCEPTION that it is.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/rnc-convention-gop-delegates-economy-is-great-214068

you'll see over and over these people point to the decline in manufacturing jobs, and the need to bring them back as some kind of magic bullet- but there was nothing magical about manufacturing. What those voters are missing are UNION jobs with good pay and benefits that just happened to be in manufacturing. Bringing television or shoe manufacturing back from overseas so they can make minimum wage over horrible hours and conditions would do nothing. But Republicans have ironically convinced them all that Unions are the problem, so they dismantle them and vote for "right to work" laws that make it harder for high paying jobs to exist.



agree.
Click to expand...

One must say who their allegiance really lies. It is a point that they lie to voters to benefit their party's agenda.
 
E

eBay Huckster

Member
Manmademan said:
there is a ZERO percent chance any medicare privatization gets past the senate. Even the house is a hell of a stretch.

Seniors would be rioting in the streets, and run whoever voted for it out of town on a rail.
Click to expand...

i am no longer confident in pretty much anything happening the way i think it would
 
B

Boke1879

Member
faisal233 said:
Sigh, I hope Clinton goes away after this. I supported Bernie, and I came onboard for Clinton. But this loss is so tragic because it was so winnable and the concequences are so severe. I would like the Clinton's to pull a Bush and disappear.
Click to expand...

Fuck that. She's still a public servant and she most definitely should use her celebrity to help. Some of yall literally want her to not do shit since she lost.

This is her life's work. She's allowed to continue this.
 
B

blackw0lf

Member
Post-mortem analysis is smart, but be careful right now about the "what went wrong" articles based on sources inside the campaign. These early articles tend to give a somewhat distorted picture because most of the sources are the ones angry or covering their ass.

People made the same mistake with the Politico article that came out shortly after Bernie lost, that viciously attacked him. Much of it later turned out to be incorrect.

Things that are hard facts, like where ads were placed, money allocation, are the best to look at. But even then until you here from the people making the decisions you're possibly only getting part of the picture.
 
C

Chaos2Frozen

Member
faisal233 said:
Sigh, I hope Clinton goes away after this. I supported Bernie, and I came onboard for Clinton. But this loss is so tragic because it was so winnable and the concequences are so severe. I would like the Clinton's to pull a Bush and disappear.
Click to expand...

People like to think Hillary Clinton only wants the Presidency but somehow forgets that she worked all her life as a public servant.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Odrion said:
her campaign was shitty and it resulted with us trapped in this nightmare hellworld and I won't stop shitting on her shitty campaign from a great height when there's new evidence because it's the only solace I have in this nightmare hellworld
Click to expand...

I mean I'm also gonna shit on the people that actively voted for Trump as well. Because at the end of the day. Policy doesn't matter, Debates don't matter and Trump being a literal piece of this doesn't matter. PEOPLE still voted him in.

You can question her campaign and give her shit for it, but don't use that as a weapon to attack posters here. Also at some point you have to move on. Like Obama said. take your time, but at some point you gotta get out there and fight, and at some point being made about things from the past just isn't helpful.
 
B

Brawly Likes to Brawl

Member
hipsterpants said:
Considering how much Trump got away with, I really wonder how bad things are in the more rural parts of the U.S. If I remember correctly people were talking about that being a huge blind spot in media's reporting on the state of the country.

The GOP has done a masterful job of convincing so many of these people that they are the party that can fix things for them (a blatant lie obviously). The fact that references to an infrastructure bill always talk about Trump working with the Dems rather than the GOP says enough. Stuff like Kander running so far ahead of Hillary show that a lot of working class voters aren't GOP4life like some people in this thread seem to fear. You just need an effective messenger!
Click to expand...

I actually feel really bad for them because Automation is going to fuck their situation up even worse. I'm really hoping that the Democrats plan with the rust belt going forward isn't to lie to them like Trump did but to try to explain that things need to be changed so their areas can be revitalized in a new way.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Hillary still looked devastated and downtrodden. Felt sad to see her like that. I can only imagine considering how I still feel.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
shinra-bansho said:
Seriously, everyone pretending that their hindsight is the same as foresight is getting annoying as hell.

You had people complaining about doing too many localised events rather than national addresses.

People bemoaning a lack of Latino emphasis. Or youth emphasis. Or black emphasis.

People applauding decrying the deplorables for what they are.

People so sure she would sweep and take some traditionally red territory.

I sure was wrong wrong wrong.
And so was everyone else.
Click to expand...

At the end of the day I'm not sure anything makes up for the fact that every single credible way by which we project election success and election failure had Clinton winning, to the point that they had no reason to question their strategy because for the data to be as wrong as it was would represent an analysis failure the likes of which we had never seen before

And it turns out that's exactly what it was

The Clinton campaign made tons of missteps. But every campaign makes missteps. No-one runs the perfect campaign. But I can't blame them for not anticipating that every single mechanism we use to anticipate results turned out to be fucking broken
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
dramatis said:
Sure, after you respond to this post:
Click to expand...

Uh, I did like 8 hours ago.

http://m.neogaf.com/compose.php?do=updatepost&t=1312176&p=224673807&page=65

Boke1879 said:
and what satisfaction would you get out of that? A lot of this shit really just amounts to "I told you so."

Ok. And? Most past this bullshit. This is literally just living in the past. I've moved on from Clinton. What are we going to do win the Presidency and gain ground in the Senate and House?

Learn from these mistakes. Yes. But taking some sort of gratification in proving others on this message board wrong isn't helping shit.
Click to expand...

Come on, I'm just having some fun. Some people were rabid in their response to anybody who criticized the campaign. I think it's fair to respond in a harmless manner like this.
 
J

Joe

Member
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
I'm going to go on a limb here and say Trump will give some sort of role to Jill Stein in his administration, somewhere.
 
P

PInk Tape

Banned
I wonder if Trump has met his personal quota on how many anti-semite, racist, climate denying pieces of shit he wants to add to his administration yet.
 
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