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[Sirpopopop]

I can understand the impulse to get rid of Pelosi from a symbolic perspective. I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

However, it's not her fault that the House has gone Republican. Blame the voters who didn't turn out for that. The fickle left. Left-leaning millennials who can't be bothered to vote.

 

[And_Gignac]

Let's take the highly experienced, well liked, efficient, skilled at her job, liberal, first female speaker of the house and kick her out.

Because of reasons.

Well liked? She is one of the most unpopular house Dems there are. Her Unfavorable - Favorable rate is similar to Trump's.

But whatever. There was no real, likeable competition. A blue dog wasn't the answer.

 

[The Technomancer]

The more I reflect the more its really really difficult to keep any faith I had in the general intelligence of the population. Because that's always a line of reasoning that I've despised. But its hard to look at the effects of misinformation and sheer bullshit on this election and chalk it up to something other than people being bad at information processing

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Well liked? She is one of the most unpopular house Dems there are. Her Unfavorable - Favorable rate is similar to Trump's.

But whatever. There was no real, likeable competition. A blue dog wasn't the answer.

She's well liked with the only two groups that matter to her job, house Democrats and her constituents. She really shouldn't care at all what randoms in a farm state care about her and her spooky scary healthcare law. Those people don't matter for her job.

 

[Retromelon]

Posted a yearbook photo in the rate my appearance thread. Got told I was a solid 7.3 and looked like ray romano

 

[Crocodile]

Good Reading:

The case for normalizing Trump (to beat him, focus more on the unpopular GOP agenda he will push and less on his personality)

Everything mattered: lessons from 2016's bizarre presidential election (Good breakdown of the what happened this election and what to do moving forward - might be the best breakdown I've seen!).

Also an "interesting" graph:

Spoiler

This election was an insane outlier

I can understand the impulse to get rid of Pelosi from a symbolic perspective. I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

However, it's not her fault that the House has gone Republican. Blame the voters who didn't turn out for that. The fickle left. Left-leaning millennials who can't be bothered to vote.

Spoiler

Thanks millennials

EDIT: I didn't make that image. Yes, the written math is a bit off but the point is still the same

 

[pigeon]

The more I reflect the more its really really difficult to keep any faith I had in the general intelligence of the population. Because that's always a line of reasoning that I've despised. But its hard to look at the effects of misinformation and sheer bullshit on this election and chalk it up to something other than people being bad at information processing

Doesn't require a problem with general intelligence. Critical analysis is a skill that most people don't need in their day-to-day lives, except when it comes to politics. People tend to be bad at things they don't need to be good at.

 

[sphagnum]

When he met with Trump last week, Gingrich says, "He commented, 'This is really a bigger job than I thought.' Which is good. He should think that." As president, Gingrich went on, "you have war and peace, you have enormous powers ... and it all comes down to the Oval Office and it all comes down to you."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-trump-tweet-vote-fraud-big-mistake/94604846/

 

[Particle Physicist]

What's not progressive about Nancy Pelosi? She's a rep from San Francisco. How do you get much more liberal than that?

How is she not fit for the job she is currently doing?

People hate Pelosi because she suffers from the same bullshit, misogynist propaganda from the Republicans that Hillary does. In reality, she is very good at her job, and very progressive.

 

[kirblar]

Here's a more interesting way of looking at these election results- with Clinton being so unpopular, is this the Dem baseline from here on out?

People hate Pelosi because she suffers from the same bullshit, misogynist propaganda from the Republicans that Hillary does. In reality, she is very good at her job, and very progressive.

Clinton was only ever unpopular when running for office.(in recent history.)

 

[Future PhaZe]

Let's take the highly experienced, well liked, efficient, skilled at her job, liberal, first female speaker of the house and kick her out.

Because of reasons.

Reasons? She's done a fantastic job of raising a lot of money for losing candidates over the years hasn't she? Her face as a big money establishment dem presence surely did a ton of good. Her ability to keep the dems "aligned" in their message--one that has become increasingly soft in the face of countless stories of republican fukkery, is to be lauded.

And the argument that change for change's sake is a bad thing in the face of horrible results is hilarious to me.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Nancy Pelosi has 0 to do with Democrats losing elections. That's on the weak DNC leadership. Which she isn't part of. Her job is to fundraise and wrangle together Democrat votes. Both of which she is an expert at.

Apparently being a representative for one of the most liberal areas of the country is not enough for you. Apparently being able to pass the most comprehensive healthcare reform in the history of this country isn't enough for you. Apparently being the first female speaker of the house in 200 years of old white men is not enough for you. Apparently being well known to be able to unite Democrats of all walks to vote and push legislation isn't enough for you.

Do you even know what you want anymore? Or is anyone who has been in congress longer than 5 years and done anything of actual merit "establishment"

 

[The Technomancer]

Doesn't require a problem with general intelligence. Critical analysis is a skill that most people don't need in their day-to-day lives, except when it comes to politics. People tend to be bad at things they don't need to be good at.

I mean, I'm not sure what else I'd classify generalized intelligence as other than "filtering and processing information". Everything else, like mathematical skill or business acumen, seems specialized

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Here's a more interesting way of looking at these election results- with Clinton being so unpopular, is this the Dem baseline from here on out?
Clinton was only ever unpopular when running for office.(in recent history.)

I've thought about that as well, but it just felt like me trying to be too optimistic.

 

[dramatis]

Guys

Are we going to have another 1984

 

[Pixieking]

The more I reflect the more its really really difficult to keep any faith I had in the general intelligence of the population. Because that's always a line of reasoning that I've despised. But its hard to look at the effects of misinformation and sheer bullshit on this election and chalk it up to something other than people being bad at information processing

Yeah. Although I flip-flop a bit...

On the one-hand, by God are people dumb.

On the other hand, critical thinking and parsing of news is not a skill everyone has. I grew-up in a very political/news-y household - everyone sitting down to watch Channel 4 news, Radio 4 constantly on in the background - so it's second-nature to me. Plus I went to University, so that helped a lot, too. The base-line for people's comprehension and critical analysis of politics is way way too fucking low, but other than educating the masses in various ways, I don't think that can be helped?

Here's a more interesting way of looking at these election results- with Clinton being so unpopular, is this the Dem baseline from here on out?
Clinton was only ever unpopular when running for office.(in recent history.)

Generally, yeah, I think so. Hispanics can't be relied upon in great numbers maybe? I think I saw something by Wang or Cohn which said that. So, Florida turn-out may be lower in the future. But, yeah, generally, the Dem base seems pretty good.

Unrelated, and for UK peeps:

There's a Friends of Planned Parenthood US organisation just started which is promoting reproductive rights in solidarity with US women. I haven't donated to it yet (chucked money straight to PP a couple of weeks ago), but it might be worth having a nosy at?

Launch Event, Thursday 19th January 2017

Come to the launch event for UK Friends of Planned Parenthood, raising money for reproductive rights in America in the wake of the Donald Trump win.

Join us for drinks and nibbles with some great speakers:

Jane Garvey, host of BBC Radio 4's Woman's Hour
Alison McGovern MP
Bryony Gordon, writer and Telegraph columnist
Sophie Walker, leader of the Women's Equality Party
Ayesha Hazarika, comedian and writer
Jess Phillips MP
Stella Creasy MP
More TBC

All proceeds will go to Planned Parenthood.

UKFPP has been set up to show support and raise money for reproductive rights across the pond, now they are under threat.

Gofundme
Twitter

 

[kirblar]

I've thought about that as well, but it just felt like me trying to be too optimistic.

I think it's just a thing of - run charismatic candidates. Period. Nerds can't win.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I think it's just a thing of - run charismatic candidates. Period. Nerds can't win.

It's comforting to think that Democrats could secure the PV for the foreseeable future and always just be 1-2% away in key swing states from securing the presidency.

But again, one has to wonder if some of that was from Trump being so terrible.

 

[Jeels]

Jesus, this is the most vapid diplomacy. I don't think I can do four years of this. I am going to just check out of world affairs

 

[studyguy]

Spoiler

Thanks millennials

Man that's a hell of a shift away from identifying as democrat despite stronger shifts towards liberalism.
Gotta be a cool independent spirit then I guess cause god knows hardline socialism or anything isn't making any headway so what gives.

Jesus, this is the most vapid diplomacy. I don't think I can do four years of this. I am going to just check out of world affairs

You could have just copy pasted "GOOD JOB" over and over and gotten the same effect.

 

[teiresias]

Nancy Pelosi has 0 to do with Democrats losing elections. That's on the weak DNC leadership. Which she isn't part of. Her job is to fundraise and wrangle together Democrat votes. Both of which she is an expert at.

Apparently being a representative for one of the most liberal areas of the country is not enough for you. Apparently being able to pass the most comprehensive healthcare reform in the history of this country isn't enough for you. Apparently being the first female speaker of the house in 200 years of old white men is not enough for you. Apparently being well known to be able to unite Democrats of all walks to vote and push legislation isn't enough for you.

Do you even know what you want anymore? Or is anyone who has been in congress longer than 5 years and done anything of actual merit "establishment"

The minute you cast a vote in Congress you immediately become establishment. Didn't you get the memo?

 

[kirblar]

BOTH SIDES ARE THE SAME, say people who've never actually experienced the other side in their adult life.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Spoiler

Thanks millennials

I'd hope that's not your math there

 

[The Technomancer]

BOTH SIDES ARE THE SAME, say people who've never actually experienced the other side in their adult life.

Just

why the fuck couldn't they wait till 2020 to be pissy

 

[Wilsongt]

So that's Russia, Syria, and Pakistan.

I guess we just need Kimmy Un to come out and say something positive to Trump and we'll have Axis of Evil 2017: Nuclear Trumpaloo.

 

[Plinko]

Spoiler

Thanks millennials

44 --> 37 is not a -13 drop. It's -7.

 

[Pixieking]

Trump’s takeover of the GOP is now complete

Romney’s turnabout illustrates the power of winning to reshuffle the political hierarchy. In less than two months, Trump will be the president of the United States. And with Romney’s move, Trump has officially and almost completely cowed the very elements of the Republican Party that had shunned the real estate tycoon and reality-television star during the turbulent campaign.

Pre-Election Day, a lot of talk here was of the GOP becoming the Party of Trump, and a civil war of establishment figures vs Trump supporters. Well, the Party of Trump and the GOP are now one-and-the-same, so at what point does Trump do something so terrible that it creates a schism in the party?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that he sexually assaults someone whilst in office, because he just won't be able to help it. And at that point, the party may well break apart, between those who can't stand it and try to impeach, and those who shrug and just want power. But who knows? They're just so... spineless.

 

[kirblar]

Just

why the fuck couldn't they wait till 2020 to be pissy

There's a non-zero chance that we're better off with them being pissy now, given the downballot issues.

Whoever gets an Eclipse next needs to go full throttle.

Portraying Romney as "bowing" is gross. He's taking a hit for the good of the country here.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I know of a politician whose been in the Senate for almost a decade. Before that, this politician was in the House for almost 20 years. This politician's been in politics for almost 40 years. And this politician voted with the same party about 90% of the time the entire time this politician has held office.

Is this politician establishment or not?

 

[Retromelon]

Sometimes you need to infiltrate the establishment so that you can effect change from within it, but that doesn't make you part of it

balladofwindfishes is not talking about obama

 

[kirblar]

Sometimes you need to infiltrate the establishment so that you can effect change from within it, but that doesn't make you part of it

If Obama's not "the establishment", who the f is?

 

[Pixieking]

I know of a politician whose been in the Senate for almost a decade. Before that, this politician was in the House for almost 20 years. This politician's been in politics for almost 40 years. And this politician voted with the same party about 90% of the time the entire time this politician has held office.

Is this politician establishment or not?

The absolute most bizarre part of this campaign is not Trump running or being elected... It's that one candidate with more political experience than their opponent, who barely did anything in their time as a politician, ran as an outsider.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Sometimes you need to infiltrate the establishment so that you can effect change from within it, but that doesn't make you part of it

And sometimes hardcore establishment politicians are just really good at convincing people they aren't establishment.

 

[kirblar]

The "establishment" is a boogeyman, just like "Wall Street", "Corporations", "Minorities", etc.

 

[Wilsongt]

As soon as you run for office you are the establishment, unless you're Bernie Sanders for dems/young people or Trump for racists.

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

A lot of these blue states will be difficult to defend in 2018, correct?

 

[Elaugaufein]

A lot of these blue states will be difficult to defend in 2018, correct?

Yes because a lot of them are red states culturally.

 

[kirblar]

Yes, though it depends what 2018 looks like.

 

[studyguy]

A lot of these blue states will be difficult to defend in 2018, correct?

Defending 25 seats and like 13 of which are going to be brutal fights iirc going by how the general election fell.

 

[BSsBrolly]

Defending 25 seats and like 13 of which are going to be brutal fights iirc going by how the general election fell.

We better hope Trump is as unpopular as we expect him to be. My fear is his policies will be good short term and people won't feel how damaging they are till it's too late (for 2018 anyway).

 

[NYCmetsfan]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-trump-tweet-vote-fraud-big-mistake/94604846/

 

[dramatis]

Sometimes you need to infiltrate the establishment so that you can effect change from within it, but that doesn't make you part of it

For some reason, this made me think of Code Geass.

There's a few things in Code Geass that inexplicably speak to our time now

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

I have heard that if the Republicans do well in 2018, they will gain the power to affect Constitutional amendments? Which would mean that Trump could mold even the very constitution to his liking?

 

[The Technomancer]

We better hope Trump is as unpopular as we expect him to be. My fear is his policies will be good short term and people won't feel how damaging they are till it's too late (for 2018 anyway).

If other factories who's jobs he "saves" are operating on the same schedule we might be in for a horrible 2018 when the jobs are still around, but a surge of genuine anger in 2020 when all of the jobs he couldn't "save" have actually gone

 

[Metaphoreus]

felicitated him

He what now?

 

[Retromelon]

For some reason, this made me think of Code Geass.

There's a few things in Code Geass that inexplicably speak to our time now

Rereading this, it does sound like something an anime villain says to justify his actions, yes

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I have heard that if the Republicans do well in 2018, they will gain the power to affect Constitutional amendments? Which would mean that Trump could mold even the very constitution to his liking?

Nah, not a chance this happens.

 

[dramatis]

He what now?

This has to be the shortest post you've ever made

Rereading this, it does sound like something an anime villain says to justify his actions, yes

It was actually said by one of the 'protagonists'. He said he would join the terrible system and try to change it from within.

He ended up nuking a city with millions of people in it lol

 

[studyguy]

Rereading this, it does sound like something an anime villain says to justify his actions, yes

Internet said Trump was going to make anime real so makes sense.

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

Nah, not a chance this happens.

Oh? Why not?