T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Don't they know this only worked against Goldwater because they did it before the election?
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented
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Don't they know this only worked against Goldwater because they did it before the election?
Ethically/morally, you're absolutely right. But that means there's no repercussions for Russia's actions, which just emboldens them. To be fair, I have no idea what repercussions could be affected - Putin's government seems to be doing a great job of screwing over the Russian people, hammering down on dissidents, free speech and social causes, and tanking the currency every couple of years. Also, reading the "Clinton says this is payback for when I criticisized Russia years ago" articles, I'm sure people are very wary of poking Putin (straight-up, Putin and Trump are peas-in-a-pod).
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Sometimes I wonder if benji is just the first AI to ever pass the Turing test and we have no idea.
I'm sure you're right... But I'm also sure that I don't think there's much that can be done covertly which will affect Russia or Russian politics, without harming its innocent citizens. *shrugs*
An an aside, it's interesting watching the divergence of Communism in China and Russia. From memory of past events (so I may be wrong) Russia could've been what China is now, if Yeltsin had stayed in office longer? A communist/nationalist take on capitalism, and a global financial superpower.
Can anyone recommend some good books on recent Russian politics? Say, from late 80s to mid 2000s?
Ahhhh. Could it be argued that if the oligarchs of the Yeltsin days had lived to now, they would have spread wealth and created jobs? Trickle-down economics and financial recovery and all that. Or is that a bit of a stretch?
No. All of the oligarchs were in charge of extractive industries. Their best bet would have been to keep these companies public and made a sovereign wealth fund to support their citizens and infrastructure and grow towards a mixed economy. Shock therapy was completely fucking stupid, and many Russians today believe that it was nothing more than a ploy to destroy Russia.
benjipwns
Banned
hmm, maybe in many many years? Russia has benefited, but there was a tremendous inequality created in that initial policy.
Plutocrats had a decent chapter comparing China/Russia/India and their "privatizations" and how the government responded and Russia's was more or less doomed to fail. It allowed a handful of people to become billionaires very quickly and then use their newfound power in opposition to the state as these new companies were complete monopolies in their industries. Putin's popular power rose because re-established the state's power against them and broke a lot of them up. Sometimes in ways our government might, other times because people decided to hang themselves then shoot themselves both after they were already dead.
China has kept all their rich within the Communist Party. The 50 richest members of the NPC have more wealth than the entire elected U.S. government plus the Supreme Court. (And depending on the time, including the cabinet. This will obviously change with Trump's first cabinet but the NPC at large will still be richer.)
Putin got like 63.6% of the vote in the last presidential election which is still ridiculously high.
nature boy
Member
At this rate, you know Russia and/or China is gonna test POTUS Manchild in his first week of office.
Because why not.
Because why not.
Maybe North Korea will test him to.
nature boy
Member
Yep and who knows how the Pakistan/India situation will evolve
There used to be a distinct split between Republicans that were hunters/sportsmen/more national lands r better and Republicans that deepthroated guns/"tayk bak ur lands". That ended roughly in 1977-1980 in the NRA coup.
dynamitejim
Member
Some asshole on Fox News talking about how Obama is setting up a Shadow Government in D.C. to undermine Trump because he and Michele just bought a nice house there. Already going full Conspiracy Theory to set up for when Trump starts fucking up so they can blame Obama. Not to mention mention the insanely racist undertone of telling a successful black couple they can't live in a certain neighborhood any more.
Totally irrelevant but you should read about the important things, like The Genius of Obamas Mom Jeans
benjipwns
Banned
There was also a more widely recognized difference between conservationists/for use and restrictionsists/preservationists.
Teddy Roosevelt was personally split on this, being a conservationist at heart who also wanted the resources and materials and things like dams and so on while being upset by overlogging or overhunting. His solution was public lands, national parks, etc. Especially since most of the land being discussed at the time was already owned by the Federal Government. It was seen as being good stewardship of the land while also allowing for use of the resources carefully.
The preservationists/ENVIRONAZIS of the era strictly opposed any of all of these, including land/water/etc. management. The resurgence of the latter group decades hence led to the blocking of clearing out deadwood on federal land. Thus, stuff like the Yellowstone fires.
Teddy Roosevelt was personally split on this, being a conservationist at heart who also wanted the resources and materials and things like dams and so on while being upset by overlogging or overhunting. His solution was public lands, national parks, etc. Especially since most of the land being discussed at the time was already owned by the Federal Government. It was seen as being good stewardship of the land while also allowing for use of the resources carefully.
The preservationists/ENVIRONAZIS of the era strictly opposed any of all of these, including land/water/etc. management. The resurgence of the latter group decades hence led to the blocking of clearing out deadwood on federal land. Thus, stuff like the Yellowstone fires.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Math, how does it work?
By the way, I guarantee this is a preview of republican talking points for the next 2 years. Fake numbers that make supporters believe only a small minority are against their own views, further igniting hatred and divisive behavior. That's how authoritarian rule gets its support.
benjipwns
Banned
Wait, when was this not the case?
benjipwns
Banned
The Clean Air Act amendments. It drastically expanded EPA and other agency powers compared to what they had when first introduced, which business was not pleased with. Those happened in 1990 and what do you know, look at this chart:
I want to say there were a lot of court cases in the late 1980s that engendered similar backlash. But I may have the timeline off.
This is why education should be a must. Target the kids who will be old enough to vote in the midterms and the 2020 elections now and make sure they aren't caught in the GOP propaganda machine. You'll not only have Dem voters, but also Dem activists willing to pound the streets for the party, not just a specific candidate.
Honestly, if the Dems can't set the world on fire with an increased new voter turnout in the next 4 years, we and they are truly fucked.
Oh, cheers for the book recommendations, Benji.
Yeah and Reagan was suffering early stage dementia by his 2nd term.
Lucky Forward
Member
Deliberately trying to undermine an incoming president? Why, that's unheard of!
Did you mean Gorbachev here? The world would certainly be a better place if he hadn't been undermined, though to what extent he could have held power anyway after what his policies unleashed is questionable.
Ghostshark
Member
Everything he does is awful. Why in the hell would you give away valuable taxpayer dollars just as a "fuck you" to another country? I need to start avoiding Trump news, my panic disorder is going to kill me at this rate.Our next president, folks.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
It was probably a drone for scientific observation. Totally unnecessary in his anti-science administration.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
52% of republicans believe Trump won the popular vote? 52%????
I mean, all it takes is a 3 second Google search. Mathematical fact is "fake news" in our country now. Unreal. There's no turning back from this.
I mean, all it takes is a 3 second Google search. Mathematical fact is "fake news" in our country now. Unreal. There's no turning back from this.
I see you didn't consider the millions of illegal votes.
We're a nation of idiots. It's how we got President Trump.
Abstrusity
Member
It's really sad when I jump between "these people need to be saved from themselves" and "but they aren't worth saving."
We'll be fucked for a decade, again. JUST as it's starting to come back to relative normalcy.
We'll be fucked for a decade, again. JUST as it's starting to come back to relative normalcy.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
I'd start by looking at the 47%(?) of the country that didn't vote.
Trump supporters are a lost cause, but if we can get at least 20% of non-voters back in the booths, well...that'd probably solve a lot of problems.
By the numbers, 1/5th of the country is a lost cause. Unfortunately, 1/5th of the country populate most red house districts and deep red states and are able to elect dangerous people to Congress.
We need a gay crusade to move into middle America. The big joke with gays is that they move in, build the coffee shops and little stores and small towns, and then you have a migration towards those places.
That is an insanely scary number. Literally more then half of the GOP's voting base no longer believe in facts. Just, wow.
Looking at the numbers, they are lower for college educated Republicans at 30-something percent. Still way too high.
As expected, lower education individuals are a lost cause.
It is amazing what a contrast there is between low education Democrats and low education Republicans.
Have they ever? Seems like there was a huge shift in the 90's with the explosion of talk radio. It's been down hill since.
Ghostshark
Member
I can't look at it like that. There are a lot of horrible people that don't deserve redemption for their stupidity and viciousness, but it has to happen if we want to improve humanity as a whole. There's no easy solution of course, but we need to do something besides waiting for the older bigots to die off from old age.
Yeah, that number surprised me too. I thought for sure college educated would be under at least 10% for both sides.
I used to think it was only a third of republicans at most who believed that talk show drivel, but this election has opened my eyes to a lot of things I once thought were true. :/
balladofwindfishes
Member
I think this is a combination of two things
- Fake news and people believing everything Trump says. So when he said he won the popular vote by a huge margin when we remove illegal voters, they believe him
- Some just legitimately don't understand how our election process works, and assume that whoever is president must have gotten the most votes.
the Romney Coefficient has befuddled both mathematicians and political scientists alike.
It beggars belief how something that's on 24/7, on large, established radio networks, with a FCC license, can be considered outside the purview of established politics and the mainstream media, whatever that means anymore.
The only way to cut through this is to belittle it. Oh, what a original notion you have there, dude. You can't tell me the reasons Russian interference is bad? Okay, you tell me.
VendettaRed07
Member
Well there's no testing with Russia because Trump has already made it clear appeasement is his policy with Putin
Putin will do whatever he can to prop up trump so as long as he allows him to continue his push on Eastern Europe.
China however yeah I can see shit getting real with them if their comments already are any indication
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