I would not be surprised if they were between 5 and 10 faithless electors tommorrow.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented
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I would not be surprised if they were between 5 and 10 faithless electors tommorrow.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Heyo PoliGAF, would you make sure I've got these events and their sequence right?
March 5 - Brazile allegedly leaks a debate question about Flint to Podesta and Palmieri according to an email released by WikiLeaks.
March 6 - The Flint question is asked in a town hall debate between Clinton and Sanders
March 12 - Brazile allegedly leaks a debate question about the death penalty to Podesta and Palmieri according to another email released by WikiLeaks.
March 13 - The death penalty question is asked in another town hall debate between Clinton and Sanders
July 24 - Brazile is named interim chairperson of the DNC after Schultz steps down over leaked emails indicating bias in favor of Clinton and against Sanders
October 11 - The email about the death penalty question surfaces
October 31 - The email about the Flint question surfaces
Sorry if this seems like a non-sequitur. It came up in the thread discussing Russia's interference in the election, but I had to go to work and I don't want to drag the conversation away from the topic again.
March 5 - Brazile allegedly leaks a debate question about Flint to Podesta and Palmieri according to an email released by WikiLeaks.
March 6 - The Flint question is asked in a town hall debate between Clinton and Sanders
March 12 - Brazile allegedly leaks a debate question about the death penalty to Podesta and Palmieri according to another email released by WikiLeaks.
March 13 - The death penalty question is asked in another town hall debate between Clinton and Sanders
July 24 - Brazile is named interim chairperson of the DNC after Schultz steps down over leaked emails indicating bias in favor of Clinton and against Sanders
October 11 - The email about the death penalty question surfaces
October 31 - The email about the Flint question surfaces
Sorry if this seems like a non-sequitur. It came up in the thread discussing Russia's interference in the election, but I had to go to work and I don't want to drag the conversation away from the topic again.
BackLogJoe
Member
I just watched the Untold History of the United States. Im convinced now that the EC will go for Trump no matter what people are saying. Im also convinced that the same groups of people that profited off of WW2 are still profiting off of the US and continue steering the US towards empire.
Sirpopopop
Member
Conspiracy much?
BackLogJoe
Member
Its not really a conspiracy. The same companies that today we complain about holding the wealth of the world, the same companies that push their agenda through lobbyists in Congress, are the same companies that were around during WW2 selling steel and oil to Hitler.
GregLombardi
Member
Not really, especially if you know your business / country history.
I wonder if the allure of being part of history will get any electors to defect. Being a rubber stamp is boring, voting for someone other than Trump could make you feel important.
Sirpopopop
Member
It's certainly a conspiracy to believe that these folks are sitting in their boardrooms plotting to keep the U.S. in perpetual war in an effort to make a profit. That they are in essence creating a shadow government just for this purpose. It ranks right up there with Rothschild crap.
The more likely bet is that corporations sell to whomever will buy from them. The other bet is that some money that positions Harry Truman as one of the great villains of history and is from Oliver Stone is probably grossly inaccurate and should be dismissed out of hand.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I'm not counting on the EC doing the smart thing, but I am hoping that enough electors vote against trump to make him wake the hell up and re-evaluate his attitude.
lol - that will never happen
On balance, I think an elector revolt is the more likely of the two.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
i lol'd, i cried.
StormBrute
Member
Electoral vote is pointless anyway, since it will just go to the House and spineless Ryan and the Rs will vote Trump in no question. Ds don't even get press they can use from it since it will just come off as them being sore losers.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Oh, and I'm gonna become a trillionaire and pay GAF's server fees for a decade.
I wouldn't mind that reality because Republicans would at least be forced to own the shitshow that will happen in the next 4-8 years.
And_Gignac
Member
And thats great. If more people were like you, we wouldnt be in this mess. All I am saying is that the poll probably has more to do with apathy than with anti-facts complacency. (mostly coming from white and et al privileged groups, cuz they can give themselves the privilege of being "apolitical").
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
https://medium.com/@buttigieg/a-letter-from-flyover-country-5d4e9c32d2ac#.ufqdj7foy
This article is another pretty interesting "what's the way forward" article from the mayor of South Bend.
This article is another pretty interesting "what's the way forward" article from the mayor of South Bend.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Not really. The part where 30-something electors change their minds tomorrow, that's the part that is not going to happen.
If it did for some reason (it won't), it's not at all hard to believe that the Republican House would prefer to go with a more easily-controlled and predictable Republican candidate other than Trump.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
The bigger issue is that it sort of concedes the point that it was China's waters instead of international water.
My guess is he's embarrassed by "unpresidented" and wants to move on.
Alternatively, the advisors told him that it's not like you want to go to the negotiating table over it, so the strategy would be to let them have it while acting super upset about it so it doesn't happen again, but trump doesn't like the idea of leaving things open ended like that.
I mean, this 'shadow government' concept you're describing isn't what Untold History suggests happened back then anyway. Continuing steering the country toward empire in the context of Untold History just means corporations continue to have influence over government in a way that protects their interests abroad. If you haven't noticed, the incoming cabinet has Goldman Sachs and Exxon people -- hell, there's even a steel and coal magnate. And how does Trump describe our position in the middle east? He thinks we should be there to take the oil. Nobody's talking about a shadow government.
Hillary Clinton
Banned
You didn't get the memo from Gore Vidal and Fareed Zakaria. US is in the sunset of its empire and will quietly fade into irrelevance, starting with Trump.
Sirpopopop
Member
A. The Iraq War wasn't fought for oil. It was fought for a multitude of reasons. There was some benefit to U.S. oil companies, but China has reaped more benefits than the U.S. The primary reasons for the Iraq War were poor intelligence & a DoD that was beholden to neocon political theory. It wasn't fought because we wanted to get their oil. If that was the case, the easiest way to do that would have been to work with Saddam and lift sanctions.
As for the bolded...
I think the bolded is a pretty clear indication of "shadow government." Steering indicates you have a hand on the wheel. That indicates control. That's a big difference than influencing. Influencing is not necessarily control.
Regardless, isn't this the same series that suggested that Harry Truman was a worse villain than Josef Stalin?
Isn't Oliver Stone the same person who suggested on multiple occasions that the military industrial complex was responsible for killing John F. Kennedy?
Not in and by itself, but you have state laws bounding electors to abide by the state's vote, and it's unclear if and how they can be enforced.
I don't think any of that is likely by the way.
The guy is obviously planning to run for president in 10 or 20 years.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I hope in a decade from now America would be ready to elect a gay president.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I would hope we'd be ready now, but apparently we weren't ready to elect our first female president. We gave her the most votes though!
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
i would be surprised if we even had 1 faithless elector.
cartoon_soldier
Member
There will be more Faithless electors against Hillary than Trump.
SporeCrawler
Member
Hilldawg won by 2,7 million votes. The election system is a joke thats the problem. Also the demoscopes created a wrong image of the situation which let hilldawg supporters assume that its okay to stay at home. And than there is the FBI thing which was nothing but really hit her hard when she was gaining a lot of steam
Aaron Strife
Banned
Yeah I bet those two electors from Washington are feeling particularly emboldened.
Also wondering if the Hamilton electors will follow through - it'll be for naught if no one on the GOP joins them, but really it's for naught anyway. You're not going to get 38 Republican electors to vote for Clinton.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
And we are calling the people who are threatening the electors with violence names
BackLogJoe
Member
It's not going to reset, though, just get worse for everyone else.
balladofwindfishes
Member
And then bounce back eventually
This isn't the first time we've had dark times as a country. It won't be the last. We end up "fixed" for a decade or so before people get dumb and want to "try again" with the stuff that has failed 100% of the time and then the cycle starts over again.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
That was all before trump
balladofwindfishes
Member
"That was all before Jackson"
"That was all before Buchanan"
"That was all before Hoover"
"That was all before Nixon"
"That was all before Reagan"
"That was all before W"
Plus all the other crappy presidents I can't be bothered to remember.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
When was the last time republicans had total control and were going to actively destroy health care, social security, and Medicare? The 90s? Were they ever threatening this? Honest question.
balladofwindfishes
Member
They were able to cut Medicare in the 2000s. They made it complicated and inconvenient because of course they did.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
None of them had a black president before them.
None of them said if we had nukes why not use them.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Buchanan did nothing while the country ripped itself to shreds and caused the bloodiest war in our history, and our darkest time as a country.
Trump will have pretty big shoes to fill if he wants to one up Buchanan.
Trump isn't going to use nukes.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
They'll vote for him because he won the election fair/square, the end. There is no conspiracy required to explain why 270+ electors will do their job, which is to confirm Trump's victory.
I don't think this equivalency works, because it shows just how unprecedented a guy like Trump is. Jackson was a Senator, Hoover was Secretary of Commerce, Nixon was also a Senator, and both Reagan and Dubya were Governors. For better or worse this is uncharted territory (and needs to be noted as such).
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Trump thinks that using hairspray in a "sealed room" did not affect the ozone
So excuse me for not believing in someone who thinks anything like this
Trump isn't cut from the same cloth as his predecessors, it's not valid to compare him to them.
Trump basically made news (as in real news), facts, debate, experience, campaigning, and human decency not matter when running for President. He legitimized (er, delegitimized) all of this as well as made it ok for foreign entities be able to sway the election. This is political 9/11 and threatens our country's well being.
Trump basically made news (as in real news), facts, debate, experience, campaigning, and human decency not matter when running for President. He legitimized (er, delegitimized) all of this as well as made it ok for foreign entities be able to sway the election. This is political 9/11 and threatens our country's well being.
GregLombardi
Member
Can you somehow explain this to my friends who have returned to their non-minority privileged lives of burying their heads in the sand? It feels like privileged Americans have no idea what is coming and when I tried to explain I was either shunned or told it wasnt a big deal, leading to me giving up completely with them. Then, when the first sign of insanity drops from the Donald presidency, I guarantee you everyone will be shocked into thinking they "never thought" it could happen even though there are plenty of people, mostly minorities and political scientists, actual scientists, along with historians, all of whom know what is coming.
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