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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented

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If enough Republicans jump then yea, a nominee can be blocked. I believe McCain and a few others have indicated Tillerson is a no-go and that's where this comes from.

Several Republicans have raised questions about Tillerson & it only takes a couple. Some have changed their tone from when he was first announced to be the pick, though.

It's not unheard of for some cabinet nominees to not be voted in. It's actually quite common in modern politics in the past 20-25 years or so.
 

benjipwns

Banned
In 1989 President George H. W. Bush nominated John Tower, a former United States Senator, to be Secretary of Defense. He was investigated over claims of drunkenness, womanizing, and ties with defense contractors.[12] The Senate rejected Tower by a vote of 53–47.
So 47 Senators in 1989 were honest about themselves.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Several Republicans have raised questions about Tillerson & it only takes a couple. Some have changed their tone from when he was first announced to be the pick, though.

It's not unheard of for some cabinet nominees to not be voted in. It's actually quite common in modern politics in the past 20-25 years or so.

Which is what I'm saying. By my count I think enough Republicans have been raising doubts so as to put the kibosh on Tillerson's confirmation, but I still won't believe it until it happens.
 
Which is what I'm saying. By my count I think enough Republicans have been raising doubts so as to put the kibosh on Tillerson's confirmation, but I still won't believe it until it happens.

Yeah. A few Republicans raised questions about Trump too and look how things ended up.
 
It's pretty depressing to think how much damage the upcoming Trump administration will do to the country and the world and how all of the politicians in power are just going to let it happen to further their own agenda's. Not to mention thinking on the fact that in 4 years the gullible idiots of this country will probably buy right into the propaganda put out by the right or they will just outright ignore what happened over the last 4 years and the Republicans will still end up with some semblance of power.

I wish there was something people in this country could do other than just sit around and take it and try to imagine the next 4 years will be better.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Did you all see that petty garbage that the Trump admin is doing with ambassadors? Giving them zero leeway in leaving their country of ambassadorship, even though for decades, precedent was for there to be leeway. Unreal.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Did you all see that petty garbage that the Trump admin is doing with ambassadors? Giving them zero leeway in leaving their country of ambassadorship, even though for decades, precedent was for there to be leeway. Unreal.

Maybe the Dems shouldn't have fucked Bernie over. /s

Maybe people will learn to vote next time. Not sarcasm.
 
In 1989 President George H. W. Bush nominated John Tower, a former United States Senator, to be Secretary of Defense. He was investigated over claims of drunkenness, womanizing, and ties with defense contractors.[12] The Senate rejected Tower by a vote of 53–47.
So 47 Senators in 1989 were honest about themselves.

I remember Tower...he even promised to quit drinking if confirmed:

''I have never been an alcoholic nor dependent on alcohol,'' Mr. Tower said, reading from a sheet of paper on which his pledge was neatly typed in two paragraphs and witnessed by the Secretary of Transportation, Samuel K. Skinner, and the Congressional physician, William M. Narva.

''However, to allay any fears or doubts on this matter, I hereby swear and undertake that if confirmed, during the course of my tenure as Secretary of Defense, I will not consume beverage alcohol of any type or form, including wine, beer or spirits of any kind,'' Mr. Tower said.
 
People need to stop getting hopes up about them not repealing. They'll all cave. It's gone.

It's incredibly gross (and therefore nothing to celebrate, only use to our future gain), but repealing the ACA is pretty close to destroying Social Security or Medicaid/care. Over the years, it's now become a huge standard in massive industries full of employees. Not just employees that are loyal to the Feds/Dems either. Repealing the ACA and going back to 2007 for healthcare will absolutely piss people off. A lot of people. In terms of what's good for the country, ACA repeal is a disaster. In terms of political strategy, it's probably a win for Dems. Repeal will cause massive problems, and when we gain control of various bodies of gov't, we can just argue for a new system with all the stuff we wanted in '08 but compromised on when we thought the GOP weren't hostile actors.

To use this stuff, the goal should be to set up the scene in Season 5(?) of Parks and Rec when the first guy at a town hall calls for a recall of Leslie. The phrasing the guy uses is something like "maybe instead of me losing my job (me: because of her tax increase), you should lose yours!" You can 100% count on the GOP costing people their jobs in the next 2 years (hell, next 6 months if they do any of this shit they're talking about). People in this country are unsympathetic as hell, and they're idiots who blame everything on the President, no matter what. If someone loses their job while a Republican is President, then they'll blame the GOP entirely and vote Dem next time.

There's a not-insignificant number of people who probably voted for Clinton, then Dubya, then Obama, and now Trump. These people are going to see things decline and they'll do the same thing they always do (and I can't believe I'm saying this, but some of it won't even be Trump's fault!); they'll vote for the opposition to fix things that the gov't isn't really even responsible for and continue the cycle.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
Happy New Year Poligaf. Just dropped in to say that and hope we all survive the Trump Apocalypse that is awaiting us in 2 weeks. Cheers.
 

mo60

Member
I just recognized something. In four years time if trump is a bad enough president he may actually end up doing terrible in Utah again even if he sticks with Mike Pence as his VP. I don't think Utah will swing back to being a 30-45+ republican state in the next election cycle if trump is still president by 2020.
 

sazzy

Member
This could be the 'trickle down reagan laughing' pic of our generation

cblBC9.png
 

faisal233

Member
It's incredibly gross (and therefore nothing to celebrate, only use to our future gain), but repealing the ACA is pretty close to destroying Social Security or Medicaid/care. Over the years, it's now become a huge standard in massive industries full of employees. Not just employees that are loyal to the Feds/Dems either. Repealing the ACA and going back to 2007 for healthcare will absolutely piss people off. A lot of people. In terms of what's good for the country, ACA repeal is a disaster. In terms of political strategy, it's probably a win for Dems. Repeal will cause massive problems, and when we gain control of various bodies of gov't, we can just argue for a new system with all the stuff we wanted in '08 but compromised on when we thought the GOP weren't hostile actors.

To use this stuff, the goal should be to set up the scene in Season 5(?) of Parks and Rec when the first guy at a town hall calls for a recall of Leslie. The phrasing the guy uses is something like "maybe instead of me losing my job (me: because of her tax increase), you should lose yours!" You can 100% count on the GOP costing people their jobs in the next 2 years (hell, next 6 months if they do any of this shit they're talking about). People in this country are unsympathetic as hell, and they're idiots who blame everything on the President, no matter what. If someone loses their job while a Republican is President, then they'll blame the GOP entirely and vote Dem next time.

There's a not-insignificant number of people who probably voted for Clinton, then Dubya, then Obama, and now Trump. These people are going to see things decline and they'll do the same thing they always do (and I can't believe I'm saying this, but some of it won't even be Trump's fault!); they'll vote for the opposition to fix things that the gov't isn't really even responsible for and continue the cycle.

Exactly. We should assume ACA repeal will happen and work for future gains. I'm a pretty cynical person, maybe too cynical for this forum and I don't share the "let's show empathy for the WWC, that's how we will win their vote back." Those votes will come back when the pain of ACA repeal is felt.

IMO, McConnell isn't going to blow up the filibuster. If he does, he will have to appease the far right crazies in the house that Ryan can't control.

You have to operate with the assumption that the scalia seat will be filled by Trump (which will just put the SC back to the status quo). So the best thing to do is to obstruct 100% until 2018 on SC and everything else on the GOP agenda. But let the ACA repeal go to a vote at the same time. Then use the ACA repeal boogyman to atleast win back the Senate. Vote down Trump's SC nominee and have him come back to the table with a reasonable jurist.
 
Maybe the Dems shouldn't have fucked Bernie over. /s

Maybe people will learn to vote next time. Not sarcasm.

Well folks should get off their butt and vote during the primary instead of staying home during the general election. Clearly, a lot of people of color and whites didn't like that Hillary was nominated. Her passionate primary supporters made bad arguments about what she would do against a GOP opponent. And the folks who wanted an alternative for whatever reason didn't participate during the primary process. If you let a minority of whites and people of color pick a bad candidate for the general....that's on you. Unfortunate, but honestly too bad. There must've been things going on that were more important than letting people know how you felt earlier. It's a real shame.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...ayed-home-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/
 
Republicans hate democracy

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/312766-gop-aims-to-rein-in-liberal-cities

They fundamentally believe that rural conservatives have a natural right to power and liberal urban city dwellers should have no say over their own lives

So basically if I want to vote I should move to a poor red state and whine about where my job is.

Well folks should get off their butt and vote during the primary instead of staying home during the general election. Clearly, a lot of people of color and whites didn't like that Hillary was nominated.

People of color distrusted Bernie WAY more than they did Hillary.
 
Exactly. We should assume ACA repeal will happen and work for future gains. I'm a pretty cynical person, maybe too cynical for this forum and I don't share the "let's show empathy for the WWC, that's how we will win their vote back." Those votes will come back when the pain of ACA repeal is felt.

IMO, McConnell isn't going to blow up the filibuster. If he does, he will have to appease the far right crazies in the house that Ryan can't control.

You have to operate with the assumption that the scalia seat will be filled by Trump (which will just put the SC back to the status quo). So the best thing to do is to obstruct 100% until 2018 on SC and everything else on the GOP agenda. But let the ACA repeal go to a vote at the same time. Then use the ACA repeal boogyman to atleast win back the Senate. Vote down Trump's SC nominee and have him come back to the table with a reasonable jurist.
Nah fam. I get the idea of running on a better ACA, but we can already do that. I think ACA being repealed just leaves Democrats scared shitless of touching healthcare again for fear of being blamed for natural shifts in the market (e.g. Premiums rising, which was already happening anyway).

Realistically I don't think any truly comprehensive healthcare plan in the US will ever be that popular. Someone's bound to get fucked and people will absolutely use that to justify their own ideology or just a general distrust of government and politicians.
 

benjipwns

Banned

Study Limitations

All projections entail uncertainty. The health care market and the general economy are ever changing. We focus solely on the effects of revoking premium tax credits and Medicaid expansions. If cancellation dates for tax credits or Medicaid expansion are shifted up or down by one year, results should be similar but moved forward or backward in time.

Given current legislative uncertainties, we are unable to account for potential Affordable Care Act replacement policies or other economic policy changes.
In an analysis like this, an important question is whether the federal funding that is cut would be used for another purpose; this is also unclear. CBO estimated that H.R. 3762 could have reduced the federal deficit, but alternative uses for these savings were not specified. It did not appear that the federal savings would be rechanneled to help states or support health care. Updated analyses may be possible in the future. The study also did not explicitly model the effects of other provisions that might be considered, such as elimination of some taxes and penalties.
oh that's all you can't model or account for in your projections to 2028?
 
Hi, just popping in to say that we have two really popular single payer programs that we can expand, plus with a public option we could do a lot.

If the ACA actually gets removed there's not much point in fighting to get something similar passed though, no one really likes it and the best defense is "it's not as bad as it was before". I'm all for protecting and improving it if it exists, but trying to get it passed again seems like a not-great idea, especially given the numerous compromises it took to get it passed the first time.
 
I really wonder who the Republicans mentioned in the article that think they'll win the PR battle here

They've got control of all both houses and the White House and they think people are gonna blame the Democrats? They're getting too cocky. It's shit like that that will cause them to lose big in the midterms.
I don't want to get ahead of myself after being burned badly in the last two elections, but I agree. Republicans theoretically have full control over the federal government for at least the next two years.

Remember also that Trump has a reputation for being a dealmaker. The government shutting down on his watch while his party controls everything would be pretty embarrassing.

In other news Matthew Dowd has talked about jumping into the Texas Senate race as an independent:

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/01/05/former-bush-operative-matthew-dowd-mulls-challengi/

Imagine holding all of our Dem-held seats while swinging Arizona, Nevada and Texas for that sweet 51. Sure, this has a next-to-zero chance of happening, but if I've occupied any space in this thread it's that next-to-zero.
 
Yesterday on cnn Wolf Blitzer was grilling Sean Duffy (wisconsin house rep) on the future of obamacare. As a result of a series of incisive and blunt questions from the former it was revealed that most of the republicans support a speedy repeal of the ACA, which will trigger a lengthy transition period until the repeal actually goes into effect of about 8 months or a year, which rep Duffy said was a good amount of time to have a discussion on what to replace it with. He didn't present his side well; it just seems like they want to nuke obama care from existence immediately and kick the policy can down the road. Why not hold off until you are certain of what you'll pass to replace it? The fuckery is palpable

This is a very boring post, just skip it
 

benjipwns

Banned
Yesterday on cnn Wolf Blitzer was grilling Sean Duffy (wisconsin house rep) on the future of obamacare. As a result of a series of incisive and blunt questions from the former it was revealed that most of the republicans support a speedy repeal of the ACA, which will trigger a lengthy transition period until the repeal actually goes into effect of about 8 months or a year, which rep Duffy said was a good amount of time to have a discussion on what to replace it with. He didn't present his side well; it just seems like they want to nuke obama care from existence immediately and kick the policy can down the road. Why not hold off until you are certain of what you'll pass to replace it? The fuckery is palpable
One year of Amazon Prime, free.
 
Yesterday on cnn Wolf Blitzer was grilling Sean Duffy (wisconsin house rep) on the future of obamacare. As a result of a series of incisive and blunt questions from the former it was revealed that most of the republicans support a speedy repeal of the ACA, which will trigger a lengthy transition period until the repeal actually goes into effect of about 8 months or a year, which rep Duffy said was a good amount of time to have a discussion on what to replace it with. He didn't present his side well; it just seems like they want to nuke obama care from existence immediately and kick the policy can down the road. Why not hold off until you are certain of what you'll pass to replace it? The fuckery is palpable

This is a very boring post, just skip it

Because they don't want to admit that they wish they could go back to 07's status quo.
 
Yesterday on cnn Wolf Blitzer was grilling Sean Duffy (wisconsin house rep) on the future of obamacare. As a result of a series of incisive and blunt questions from the former it was revealed that most of the republicans support a speedy repeal of the ACA, which will trigger a lengthy transition period until the repeal actually goes into effect of about 8 months or a year, which rep Duffy said was a good amount of time to have a discussion on what to replace it with. He didn't present his side well; it just seems like they want to nuke obama care from existence immediately and kick the policy can down the road. Why not hold off until you are certain of what you'll pass to replace it? The fuckery is palpable

This is a very boring post, just skip it
Can't wait for Duffy to make an ass of himself losing to Baldwin.

What do I fucking know, he'll probably win
 
It almost makes you miss the initiative of those old ryan budgets, instead of leaving this bullshit sword of damocles hanging over all our heads. There's all the time in the world to call the president of the country that hacked our political insitutions and power grid smart, and make bitchy swipes at 'his enemies' on twitter tho
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
I like how house republicans felt the need to add a specific exception for an Obamacare repeal in their rule for no considerations of bills that add more than $5 billion to government spending in a 10 year period. They know that the repeal is going to be expensive as hell.

The military can still get their republican handouts through the also exempted budget reconciliation bills, but notably no exception for The Wall.
 
So.... remember this past weekend when Trump said he knows things about hacking, which no one else knows, and that he would reveal what those things were on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Well it's now Friday. Clearly he never made that reveal. Did anyone in the press ask him about it or call him out?

He does this time and time again. He makes wild claims or promises, and then kicks the can down the road. By the time the date arrives, the media has already moved on to something else. Rinse, wash, repeat.
 
So.... remember this past weekend when Trump said he knows things about hacking, which no one else knows, and that he would reveal what those things were on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Well it's now Friday. Clearly he never made that reveal. Did anyone in the press ask him about it or call him out?

He does this time and time again. He makes wild claims or promises, and then kicks the can down the road. By the time date arrives, the media has already moved on to something else. Rinse, wash, repeat.
As someone who watched CNN, and MSNBC, yes, it was mentioned multiple times that the dates came and went.
 
So.... remember this past weekend when Trump said he knows things about hacking, which no one else knows, and that he would reveal what those things were on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Well it's now Friday. Clearly he never made that reveal. Did anyone in the press ask him about it or call him out?

He does this time and time again. He makes wild claims or promises, and then kicks the can down the road. By the time the date arrives, the media has already moved on to something else. Rinse, wash, repeat.
I saw mentions of it on my newsfeed and on TV. Maybe the issue has less to do with the media not covering these things enough and more to do with the general population not caring. How many times can you cover a story before you realize nobody really cares and you're in the corner beating a dead horse?
 

Pixieking

Banned
I saw mentions of it on my newsfeed and on TV. Maybe the issue has less to do with the media not covering these things enough and more to do with the general population not caring. How many times can you cover a story before you realize nobody really cares and you're in the corner beating a dead horse?

Depending on how Trump being shown the report later today shakes out, it could very easily become something to beat Trump with. The latest WaPo article on it makes it seem big, and if Trump continues to turn a blind-eye, I can see a lot of the "etiquette" surrounding this issue dissolving, and people flat-out calling Trump stupid and ignorant.

Edit: Also, apologies if I've not replied to various comments - I came down with some cold/flu thing. Still not fully recovered, but better than I've been the past couple week or so.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
So.... remember this past weekend when Trump said he knows things about hacking, which no one else knows, and that he would reveal what those things were on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Well it's now Friday. Clearly he never made that reveal. Did anyone in the press ask him about it or call him out?

He does this time and time again. He makes wild claims or promises, and then kicks the can down the road. By the time the date arrives, the media has already moved on to something else. Rinse, wash, repeat.

I have to admit I fell for it the first time he scheduled a day that he'd reveal what he was holding back. I thought it was a slow drip strategy to keep the issue in the news, but now I know it's just a flatout lie to make it sound like he has substance he wants to publically share when he has none.
 

jelly

Member
Yeah, it's idiotic. They've just handed renewable energy to China and others on a plate. I suppose the Dems will still have that card to play when they get in power again and play catch up so that's something to look forward to at least.
 

Diablos

Member
ACA might not be outright repealed but subsidies and other things that generate revenue will be gutted leaving the insurance market and patients in peril. The projected job losses are awful.
 

Breads

Banned
So like... diablos991 is a gimmick account, right? I should just ignore them? Because their drive by opinions and radio silence when they are put to task on their indefensible points feels like a gimmick.
 

Diablos

Member
So like... diablos991 is a gimmick account, right? I should just ignore them? Because their drive by opinions and radio silence when they are put to task on their indefensible points feels like a gimmick.
Nope they basically represent the views of a lot of younger millennials.
 

Breads

Banned
Nope they basically represent the views of a lot of younger millennials.

Man.

I miss the days when the daily show/ colbert report represented the younger political demographic. At least that made sense to me. diablos991 gives me the impression that they are rebelling against some imaginary liberal anti-white oppressor.
 
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 28m28 minutes ago
Wow, the ratings are in and Arnold Schwarzenegger got "swamped" (or destroyed) by comparison to the ratings machine, DJT. So much for....

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 21m21 minutes ago
being a movie star-and that was season 1 compared to season 14. Now compare him to my season 1. But who cares, he supported Kasich & Hillary

Focused!
 
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