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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented

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F

Finale Fireworker

Member
AntraxSuicide said:
PM me if you need anything. I'm also an optimist.

The goal moving forward is hardcore game theory. It's gross, but we need to accept that certain bad things are inevitable, and then turn such things to political advantage. There should never be a day for the next 2 years that the GOP or Trump is allowed to have a good headline. You know you've got shit to talk about; feature a different person who has their healthcare taken away every day. Pull up some corruption. Bait Trump with comments about the popular vote or his approval.

It's time to be pests.
Click to expand...

This is how I feel too. Teen Vogue has been doing an excellent job at this. Others, not so much. At least not yet. This is not extremely reassuring.

I think a lot of people don't know how to turn Trump's insanity into ammunition. Twitter has become a hive of people asking "what's wrong with being a white nationalist?" How do you disarm somebody who is openly and proudly a Nazi? Virtually no language is effective at overpowering people who exist completely independent from logic and morality.

I believe that culture, right now, is largely liberal.

Voters, right now, are apparently not. And I had confidence in GOTV - I proudly proclaimed Florida was a lock because nobody could compete with the Democrat turnout machine. Sociopaths love to vote. Liberals struggle to make the time. How do we disparage the conservative machine while also kickstarting our own?

And then how do we make the Democrat politicians fucking do it?
 
M

mo60

Member
LostMyNarbles said:
Right now a lot of people on the right have been bitching about how shitty they think the economy is and how terrible the ACA is for the country and that it needs to go away. Give it 2-4 years when the economy IS actually shitty and those people have all lost their health insurance with no backup plan to save them and maybe things can change. Especially, if those jobs in southern states and the rust belt do not come back despite Trump talking the talk which they probably won't based on the future being automation.

The thing I am depressed about is the kind of damage the GOP will be doing to the environment, international relations, and human rights during those 4 years. Even if we get some kind of miracle scenario in which the Democrats are completely in power by 2020 then they still have to go and pick up the pieces of a mess the Republicans made which takes time. Then if history repeats itself voters will get upset with a lack of progress in their own eyes and throw the Republicans back in power to fuck it all up again.
Click to expand...

If we are lucky the next time the GOP gets into power after they get kicked out they will end up being a lot more moderate then they are now.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
If the next Dem president isn't black, they'll probably calm down a bit. They lost their minds when a black man was leading the country because how dare he not know his place
 
P

Pixieking

Banned
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
The degree to which Trump is pissing off operational people across every single government agency is one small scrap of hope I have. I don't trust Congress to stand up to him on anything, but at least all the people who actually do things might not make his job easy
 
O

Ogodei

Member
The Technomancer said:
The degree to which Trump is pissing off operational people across every single government agency is one small scrap of hope I have. I don't trust Congress to stand up to him on anything, but at least all the people who actually do things might not make his job easy
Click to expand...

Then he has congress reduce their pay to $1 and force them to resign, replacing them by desperate people who will know their place.
 
F

Finalizer

Member
Hooligan69 said:
If Trump wasn't a warning enough of what anti-intellectualism festers into, then what could possibly motivate the left to come out against him when they didn't last year?
Click to expand...

Actually experiencing a Trump presidency & a congress where the GOP has little opposition. Complacency is a killer for Dems, so sadly I think America needs to experience disastrous leadership to be compelled to vote for the sensible option. Keep in mind the number of folks who stayed home, voted 3rd party, or even voted Trump because he made a promise he can't hope to keep (thinking of the coal miners who are just now realizing that the GOP are serious about repealing the ACA), and I think there's plenty of opportunity for comeback wave elections in 2018 & 2020 if things go as badly as they look like they will.
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
Got the Shakes said:
Eric GellerVerified account
‏@ericgeller
BREAKING: In statement, Trump says he has "tremendous respect" for IC but does not endorse its conclusion about Russian hacking.

The whole statement is here:

https://twitter.com/ericgeller/status/817454621048373249
Click to expand...

I don't know, that sounds very begrudgingly in line with the general intelligence assessment. Yes, he's playing fast and loose with "not affecting the outcome" but then no one is claiming there was any direct tampering with the vote. And there's no specific denial of intent in that statement.

I mean, it's stubborn and small and Trumpian, and I surely expect his "task force" to be utter bullshit that we never hear anything about, but it's also carefully worded. Which sounds like the report got to him a little, at least.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
Who would you guys like to see, ideally run for:

NV Gov
NM Gov
KS Gov
MN Gov
WI Gov
MI Gov
OH Gov
IL Gov
IA Gov
MD Gov
MA Gov
CT Gov
NH Gov
VT Gov
FL Gov
GA Gov

(jesus)

And

NV Sen
AZ Sen
TX Sen
 
P

Pixieking

Banned
Ogodei said:
Then he has congress reduce their pay to $1 and force them to resign, replacing them by desperate people who will know their place.
Click to expand...

Except that either a) won't happen, or b) will be such a brazen attempt at placing Yes Men that it would create a massive PR issue.

Finalizer said:
Actually experiencing a Trump presidency & a congress where the GOP has little opposition. Complacency is a killer for Dems, so sadly I think America needs to experience disastrous leadership to be compelled to vote for the sensible option. Keep in mind the number of folks who stayed home, voted 3rd party, or even voted Trump because he made a promise he can't hope to keep (thinking of the coal miners who are just now realizing that the GOP are serious about repealing the ACA), and I think there's plenty of opportunity for comeback wave elections in 2018 & 2020 if things go as badly as they look like they will.
Click to expand...

This.

Moreover, I think people have grown complacent with society, in the sense that they assume good things will continue to happen, regardless of if they vote. People (generally) also have a habit of thinking bad things can't ever happen in their life-time, until they do. For example, the rise of fascism is far enough in the past that people shrug and go "Ah, it can't happen again", and yet we've seen a larger swathe of anti-minority/antisemitism/anti-women activism in the past 18 months than (I would say) we have in the the past 18 years.

Unfortunately, the US population needs to feel how bad it can be before it can course-correct.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
It's classic Trump

The real story is "Did Russia influence the election" this is plausible, and there's enough evidence that someone could argue a case for this

His version of the story is "Did Russia tamper with the election" which isn't likely and there's no real evidence for it.

But now he's shifted the controversy to be the latter, where this is no evidence, rather than the former, where there is. It's a tricky move, and I don't know if he does it because he's cunning at twisting words, or if he's stupid and actually believes they're investigating if Russia hacked voting machines.
 
G

Got the Shakes

Member
Alicia A. CaldwellVerified account
‏@acaldwellap
WASHINGTON (AP) — New declassified report: Russian President Vladimir Putin 'ordered' campaign to influence presidential election.

https://twitter.com/acaldwellap/status/817473138640429056

Edit: Here's a link to the report itself https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

Edit 2: And here's a link to a quick summary as to what the report says if you don't want to read 25 pages https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/817474337850662916
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Got the Shakes said:
Alicia A. CaldwellVerified account
‏@acaldwellap
WASHINGTON (AP) — New declassified report: Russian President Vladimir Putin 'ordered' campaign to influence presidential election.

https://twitter.com/acaldwellap/status/817473138640429056

Edit: Here's a link to the report itself https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

Edit 2: And here's a link to a quick summary as to what the report says if you don't want to read 25 pages https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/817474337850662916
Click to expand...

I thought we weren't getting this until Monday.
 
S

studyguy

Member
B-Dubs said:
I thought we weren't getting this until Monday.
Click to expand...

I thought we wouldn't get this till a week before inauguration
Really you'd think they'd drop bombs leading up to his final day.

I mean RUSSIANS is basically going to be Trump's Benghazi for the foreseeable future, though I guess if we're comparing witch hunts, it's not fair to compare a false narrative like Benghazi to actual Russians pulling shit for Trump. But w/e
 
M

mo60

Member
studyguy said:
I thought we wouldn't get this till a week before inauguration
Really you'd think they'd drop bombs leading up to his final day.

I mean RUSSIANS is basically going to be Trump's Benghazi for the foreseeable future.
Click to expand...

Add in some corruption plus an economic downturn and trump may be kicked out in four years time.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
I don't think that the Russian hacks changed many votes, but these media stories about Trump's "great" rallies should mention that the last few weeks of rallies he had were literally 60% Wikileaks.

I mean, I fucking watched these rallies. The last four weeks was just him reading Breitbart articles about the Podesta emails. That happened.
 
P

Pixieking

Banned
studyguy said:
I thought we wouldn't get this till a week before inauguration
Really you'd think they'd drop bombs leading up to his final day.

I mean RUSSIANS is basically going to be Trump's Benghazi for the foreseeable future, though I guess if we're comparing witch hunts, it's not fair to compare a false narrative like Benghazi to actual Russians pulling shit for Trump. But w/e
Click to expand...

It's a pity there's not enough Dems to push for Congressional Inquiries over-and-over. It's no less than he (and the sexist anti-Hillary dicks) deserve.

Though, more seriously, I think the Dems will certainly win 2020. And when they do, I can see them realllllllly pushing for inquiries into anything and everything, as payback.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Got the Shakes said:
Alicia A. CaldwellVerified account
‏@acaldwellap
WASHINGTON (AP) — New declassified report: Russian President Vladimir Putin 'ordered' campaign to influence presidential election.

https://twitter.com/acaldwellap/status/817473138640429056

Edit: Here's a link to the report itself https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

Edit 2: And here's a link to a quick summary as to what the report says if you don't want to read 25 pages https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/817474337850662916
Click to expand...

Yeah, but the US totally influences elections all the time, so it's okay.
 
Dominican Power

Dominican Power

Member
C1gc8yqUkAAi-vU.jpg
 
B

Brawndo Addict

Banned
The only midterm election liberals have as a model is 2006 and that's basically a one-off caused by deep cultural anger over our continued participation in a war plagued by constant scandals and lack of progress. I'm honestly not sure what the hell the Democratic model for a midterm election comeback is supposed to be that we haven't already tried.

Voters don't care about obstructionism, gridlock, or dangerous brinkmanship with the debt ceiling or government shutdowns. Republicans never got punished for that kind of political behavior, in fact, they sometimes got rewarded, e.g. SC blocking.

Hell even when Democrats win the national election it doesn't mean jack shit. Obama won in 2012 but that didn't reset Congress. If Obama couldn't reverse 2010 with a big national election victory how is some generic and unknown Democrat supposed to do it? I can see us beating Trump nationally in 2020, but I don't see Congress changing hands as a result. At the very best we get the Senate and things return to the old dysfunctional do-nothing system we had in the Obama years.
 
T

tedrotheredro

Member
They really go in on RT with that report. I realize it's a good source to prove motivation, but I'd rather see the technical details of the hacks and communication with Wikileaks.

No mention of Trump begging for hacks, praising Wikileaks, and Roger Stone's direct communication with Wikileaks. Seems like they're sidestepping that to not appear partisan.
 
N

neurosisxeno

Member
Got the Shakes said:
Alicia A. CaldwellVerified account
‏@acaldwellap
WASHINGTON (AP) — New declassified report: Russian President Vladimir Putin 'ordered' campaign to influence presidential election.

https://twitter.com/acaldwellap/status/817473138640429056

Edit: Here's a link to the report itself https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

Edit 2: And here's a link to a quick summary as to what the report says if you don't want to read 25 pages https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/817474337850662916
Click to expand...

Wikileaks opposed to leaking of CIA report.

No shit.

tedrotheredro said:
They really go in on RT with that report. I realize it's a good source to prove motivation, but I'd rather see the technical details of the hacks and communication with Wikileaks.

No mention of Trump begging for hacks, praising Wikileaks, and Roger Stone's direct communication with Wikileaks. Seems like they're sidestepping that to not appear partisan.
Click to expand...

They can't really do that without giving away how they caught them, which means Russian-sponsored hackers know what to change about their methods making it harder for the CIA/FBI/NSA to monitor them.
 
E

ErasureAcer

Banned
MN Governor should be Scott Dibble (although I think he wants Ellison's seat) or John Marty. Out of the 2 announced Democrats so far...I prefer Erin Murphy over Chris Coleman. Coleman is crap....no transparency whatsoever. Fucker can't manage a city, let alone a state. I'm not onboard with the Lt. Governor, Tina Smith who will run. Dayton really dropped the ball with marijuana telling parents of sick children to buy weed off the streets. His lapdog Smith seems to be an uptight, PC prick like Dayton.
 
S

studyguy

Member
Eh you know what, let the govn't shut down.

2 years out I can't imagine general voters giving a single fuck. Obama took a shitload of that blame, a majority GOP congress and senate to boot getting dragged days after starting doesn't hurt dems nearly as much as a long bloody march to 2018 will hurt the GOP if it's just one blemish on a long laundry list of failures to 2018.

This is also all utterly awful to say and completely stupid but such are the times. I bet the dems would get slaughtered on the messaging for this but borrowing from Trump... WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE?!
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
I encourage everyone to ask every Trump voter they know how it feels to have been manipulated by Putin personally into voting against Clinton. You'll get punched in the face after that, sure, but it's a fair question now that we have the actual report stating as such.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
studyguy said:
Eh you know what, let the govn't shut down.

2 years out I can't imagine general voters giving a single fuck. Obama took a shitload of that blame, a majority GOP congress and senate to boot getting dragged days after starting doesn't hurt dems nearly as much as a long bloody march to 2018 will hurt the GOP if it's just one blemish on a long laundry list of failures to 2018.

This is also all utterly awful to say and completely stupid but such are the times. I bet the dems would get slaughtered on the messaging for this but borrowing from Trump... WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE?!
Click to expand...


Fuck no. I won't get paid.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Just called my Senators and representatives (who are Republicans) to encourage them to not do repeal and delay because of policy uncertainty (eg "my friends and family are worried about what health insurance they'll have in two years"). If we can kill repeal and delay, we may kill repeal all together. So if you have any Republican congressional representatives, call them and express your concern about repeal and delay and encourage them to come up (with their colleagues) their own plan before repealing the ACA.
 
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