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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
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ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I mean, you have to spend like two minutes calling his office, might as well try.
Retromelon
Member
too bad the republican vote is what wins elections then, democrats can keep hating.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
I cannot see the ACA getting fully repealed. You may not have faith in the government or voters to prevent that from happening, but you can have faith in healthcare lobbyists; a full repeal would be apocalyptic for the industry. They're going to work with Republican congressional leadership to find the necessary number of sacrificial Republicans to oppose the bills.
I'd be interested in seeing how the insurance industry responds. Telling them they have a 2 to 3 year limit on their market before it fucking implodes and everyone hates them even more seems like the quickest way to have insurance companies dip out and just run for the hills.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Eh, enough swing voters were willing to give him a chance, but if things aren't better in 2020 or (more likely) significantly worse and Democrats put up a more likable candidate he's going to have a rough reelection campaign.
Still would peg his reelection odds at 50/50 right now because our country is fucking dumb and can't be counted on for shit. You only get a few progressive years between decades of gridlock and total GOP control.
Did we talk about Beto O'Rourke running against Cruz in Texas next year? Seems like as solid a candidate as any. It would still require a perfect storm for him to win, of course.
Retromelon
Member
we did, whyamihere called him his boyfriend, that is how I remember
Sirpopopop
Member
Of special interest to me is how the alt-left is taking the release of the Intelligence Report.
From what I can tell, they are dismissing it as bullshit and instead using it as leverage to further attack Hillary. Anyone else reading differently?
From what I can tell, they are dismissing it as bullshit and instead using it as leverage to further attack Hillary. Anyone else reading differently?
I can't say I've been looking, but that wouldn't surprise me at all. The far left is as likely to ignore reality as the far right.
SenorArdilla
Member
Horseshoe theory.
Aaronology
Member
That's also what I am gathering from places outside of GAF. Of course there is a significant contingent of alt-right posing as the alt-left to foment infighting among Democrats, so I've tried to keep that in mind and inhibit my frustration. It is, at least, amusing that the alt-right have attempted infiltrating black twitter to facilitate similar chaos between progressive elements and BLM. So far they've failed in hilarious fashion.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
TestOfTide
Banned
If you don't like the blatant pro-putin posters, then do what I do: show all the posters visiting that thread that they are nothing but pro-patin trolls.
And no, Horseshoe theory is NOT bullshit. Look at the similarities between the Green party's rhetoric and Trump's rhetoric. Look at how Glen Greenwald and HAHA Goodman are now pro-Russia.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
i mean when you put it simplistically but the idea that the ideal of two sides is the middle ground is abhorrent and incorrect.
TestOfTide
Banned
It is if you define the "two sides" as the GOP and the Green Party and define the "middle ground" as the Democratic Party.
Republicans have shown that they don't give a shit about lobbyists when 1) they're more terrified of their idiot constituents and 2) said lobbyists support legislation that achieve Democratic goals.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
i mean if you want to think of politics as a line then sure go right ahead.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
who?.gif
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
I thought the horseshoe theory just said that the extremes are closer to each other than they are to the center, not that the center necessarily represented the ideal.
Nothing that will change anything. Trump, the GOP, and Russia control the county until at least 2021, if not 2025.
I have no faith in Democrats mobilizing in 2018. Especially with people still being ass hurt over Bernie and no one being able to get behind the tattered remains of the Obama and Clinton camps.
That isn't what horseshoe theory is. Horseshoe theory is about how the extremes wind you up in the exact same place.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Side 1: hey slavery is bad and you shouldn't own people
Side 2: there are sub human people who deserve to be slaves
horseshoe theory: you're both too extreme and wrong, partial slavery is the way to go.
TestOfTide
Banned
I know that in many ways politics doesn't fall perfectly into a one dimensional line, but the main aspects of the horseshoe theory still work:
- The far ends of the political spectrum are where you begin to see major similarities due to antiestablishment extremism
- Ideal, functional politics comes from having moderates in charge not extremists.
Not even "exact same place" just that the far ends of the spectrum are where you start to see a shocking number of similarities due to antiestablishment extremism.
Horseshoe theory doesn't apply to very specific issues. It applies to major political movements.
whyamihere
Banned
HOW 👏 ARE 👏 WE 👏 TALKING 👏 ABOUT 👏 JIM 👏 WEBB 👏 IN 👏 2017 👏 SHUT 👏 UP 👏 ABOUT 👏 JIM 👏 WEBB 👏
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
A lot of people on the far ends are stupid people who were attracted to the far ends because the other parts of the political spectrum were too mainstream.
There are certainly times when one theory is right and the truth isn't in the middle, but there's a lot of stupid people on the far ends.
There are certainly times when one theory is right and the truth isn't in the middle, but there's a lot of stupid people on the far ends.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
classic left/liberal infighting. like fucking clockwork.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Webb is pretty emblematic of 2006 when Democrats ran socially conservative/moderate veterans left and right to counter the "Democrats are liberal pussies, Republicans are tough on turror!" meme that defined the Bush years.
Great when we needed every vote we could get against Bush, pain in the ass otherwise - I expect some similar candidates to pop up in state and local races over the next four years. Candidate recruitment already seems much better, Trump winning put a fire under every Democrat. Just in time!
Great when we needed every vote we could get against Bush, pain in the ass otherwise - I expect some similar candidates to pop up in state and local races over the next four years. Candidate recruitment already seems much better, Trump winning put a fire under every Democrat. Just in time!
That's not horseshoe theory. That's the "truth is in the middle" logical fallacy.
Horseshoe theory is when the far right/left end up behaving the exact same way. Like how both the far left and right are currently parroting Assange.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
I have no idea who jim webb is and I already dislike him.
is this normal?
is this normal?
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Careful, Jim Webb killed a man in Vietnam for such an offense.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Jim Webb is most known for his answer in the first Dem debate.
"My greatest enemy was the Vietcong soldier I killed."
He was the Blue Dog Senator and is really racist.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I guess not similar so much as in ideology but more in the sense that Webb didn't run as a political institution - just a guy who was pissed at Bush. Some will be more liberal, some will be more conservative - starting to think that doesn't matter nearly as much as CW tends to think it does in terms of electoral prospects. (Note that's not an endorsement of raging assholes or that we should go far left on everything always, I'd still take like Murphy over Grayson any day)
smokeandmirrors
Banned
But it ignores the means to the end. Violent abolishonists and violent slave holders should not and cannot be compared even if they use violence as a means to their respective ends.
It's a curtain for people afraid of any extremism to hide behind and feel smugly superior without having to do anything.
The far left / far right agreement about Russia and Wikileaks is not even a good example. Both are using them, yes but for entirely different reasons and to entirely different ends.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
I needed some comedy
The means matters.
It is a good example. Wikileaks are a puppet of Russia and are genuinely awful human beings. Supporting their Doxxing is reprehensible, no matter how virtuous your fucking cause.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Just as much as the ends. Far left hatred of US imperialism and capitalism is not the same and never will be anywhere close to the same as the far right love of us imperialism and capitalism. Even if they agree with one party doing its best to undermine the institutions of the US.
"It's ok when we Doxx, but it's a horrible horrible thing when they do it!"
Get outta here with that hypocritical bullshit. It's trash, no matter what "side" you're on.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Okay if that's what you got from my post then we're done here. Because that is not at ALL what I'm fucking saying.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
But that should not mean an embrace of authoritarianism nor should it mean an embrace of misinformation
What about doxxing fascists?
I'm not sure what you're saying other than you trying to provide your own custom-made definition of Horseshoe Theory that doesn't match the actual definition.in order to give yourself a convenient straw man to rail against.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
And I'm not saying that either. Just because they happen to agree with one source does not mean they are anywhere close to each other politically.
whyamihere
Banned
I like it when Democrats win.
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