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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented

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StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
yup yup

Democrats faced a third term challenge, russian espionage, domestic espionage, ran against absolutely insanely effective race-baiting, and had to recover from a well-poisoning primary. And still "won" by 2 points. That is not a basis to tear the party down.

Bernie had the right message and was an unstoppable noble hero of amazingness but somehow couldn't be bothered to realize that southerns can vote. Maybe he would have won! But he didn't, and if he really was "the answer" he failed to convince people in the primary this was true.

Bernie fans. Seriously. We want to work with you. We know Hillary fucked up. We know how important candidate authenticity is. We want more populist economic appeals. Bernie is an important part of the team now. We need to work together.

If you need to be angry for a few weeks then be angry. That is fair and appropriate. But at some point y'all need to realize who your friends are.

I've got bad news for you. If the Dems pick up a Bernie Sanders economic agenda me and a shitload of other globalists pluralist Dems are going to get turned right the fuck off, and that is where the majority of the financing for the party comes from.

There was a large contingent of Hillary primary voters that were actually turned off of his policies.

Had he been the nominee and Jeb or Kasich the R nominee I would have seriously considered going R.
 
I still can't believe what Comey did.

Trump lost the popular vote but won the EC. The election was close, close enough that Comey's actions (and the media's BOMBSHELL response) absolutely could have affected the outcome.

The leader of the FBI literally insinuated rumors off of nothing, and likely changed the result of the election.

I hope his actions aren't forgotten.
The FBI was called "Trumpland" from sources inside the bureau. He dropped the letter in order to get ahead of any leaks from the Trumpkins inside his office and in doing so absolutely cost a point or two for Hillary.
 
I don't think she has near the baggage of Hillary, but yeah that Islamophobe stuff is pretty bad.

That stinks. Oh well, back to the bench.......

What about Gavin Newsome?

Newsom scares the shit out of me. Perhaps Hillary's loss makes him decide not to run for governor and instead travel the country/Iowa/etc. Talented as fuck, smart...but slimy and we know about the adultery/divorce/etc. Newsom waltzing into the race with Silicon Valley money could be effective. Not saying he'd win the nomination, but let's say he does. Does anyone think Gavin Newsom and his perfect hair and perfect suits is going to go into Pennsylvania and win over the voters he needs to win over? I'm not so sure.
 
I've got bad news for you. If the Dems pick up a Bernie Sanders economic agenda me and a shitload of other globalists pluralist Dems are going to get turned right the fuck off, and that is where the majority of the financing for the party comes from.
Is this a threat or a promise though to the people who want a nationalist protectionist agenda? Basically, they want a US version of UK Labour.
 
Newsom scares the shit out of me. Perhaps Hillary's loss makes him decide not to run for governor and instead travel the country/Iowa/etc. Talented as fuck, smart...but slimy and we know about the adultery/divorce/etc. Newsom waltzing into the race with Silicon Valley money could be effective. Not saying he'd win the nomination, but let's say he does. Does anyone think Gavin Newsom and his perfect hair and perfect suits is going to go into Pennsylvania and win over the voters he needs to win over? I'm not so sure.

He is the literal embodiment of the slimy liberal elite these people despise . He would lose the rust belt worse than Hillary.
 

lednerg

Member
Bernie Sanders did surprisingly well in the primaries. As a non candidate under non candidate scrutiny he had and will continue having higher favourables and polling numbers. They are not comparable. So yes it's a fantasy. He may have run better. He may not have.

And none of that means Nina Turner being the only other politician people can name because she backed him should be anywhere near anything. Good fucking grief.

You're harping on Nina Turner which was hardly the point of my post. Look, we need to run populist candidates. Period. The DNC, in their hubris, chose to ignore the political climate and go with the exact opposite - the insider that got clobbered in 2008 by the inexperienced unknown.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Is this a threat or a promise though to the people who want a nationalist protectionist agenda?

It's a reality. The Dems pitch a big tent which includes a lot of economic centrists. You can't go too far to either side. Obama struck a good balance. So did Hillary, she just never talked about it.

You have to avalanche the realities of globalism having already won with the need to take care of those who were left behind by it.

Trade wars and breaking up banks will cost you at least 10% of moderate Dems.
 

Gruco

Banned
I am a native-born Haitian American and a New York native from Brooklyn. Living in Florida, where Trump's victory hurt a lot. What are you insinuating from my comment? Of course I am owning up to it. As a Black American, I am going to be actively live with the consequences. The reality is that the Democratic Party is fighting for the future direction, and people are trying to move away from how things were managed for decades. I didn't play the game of heroes and scapegoats. Trump supporters either insulted me through racism and prejudice personally, or Clinton supporters called me an Uncle Tom, a sellout, or a naive, young millennial. Not on this board, but a lot of raw nerves were hit on a personal level.

Hey, I appreciate your response. When I read "Bernie supporters don't need to apologize" combined with talk about how awful and smug Clinton supporters were, I took that as part of the "Bernie got stabbed in the back" narrative. Which I assess as scapegoating and think needs to die a horrible death.

Reading your response here and then rereading the post I originally replied to, I may have inferred to much. So I can respond to your text more specifically.
Seeing the meltdown of the Hillary-GAF and the quick turnaround and continued criticism of Sanders instead of heartfelt reflection is going to continue the antagonism.
There has been heartfelt reflection in this thread. I want to see the same amount of reflection from Sanders supporters. All parties had an equal amount of responsibility to elect the next president. Instead of complaining about how unreasonable GAF was, maybe talk about how Bernie failed, instead of how you think a shockingly narrow loss under utterly abnormal circumstances lead to a need to clean house. Because if Bernie was the answer, there are very clear and specific reasons he failed to show that that's the case.

Bernie had some of the right message....

It still needs work and expansion.

Bernie lost for a reason, just like Hillary lost for a reason.

I've got bad news for you. If the Dems pick up a Bernie Sanders economic agenda me and a shitload of other globalists pluralist Dems are going to get turned right the fuck off, and that is where the majority of the financing for the party comes from.

There was a large contingent of Hillary primary voters that were actually turned off of his policies.

Had he been the nominee and Jeb or Kasich the R nominee I would have seriously considered going R.

Oh, dude, no, I should be more clear. I am an economist. I, like all of my people, HATED Bernie's domestic agenda. It was a purity clown show. But, Obama did a better job of speaking to populism. And Bernie fans seem to be on board with this making a big difference. It's a starting point. We all like Obama, right?
quiet, drone doves. we have bigger problems
Clinton's failures were in the form of communication, authenticity, and in caring about the midwest. That probably involves a dash of populism.

It's not a reconciliation but it's a starting point.
 
You're harping on Nina Turner which was hardly the point of my post. Look, we need to run populist candidates. Period. The DNC, in their hubris, chose to ignore the political climate and go with the exact opposite - the insider that got clobbered in 2008 by the inexperienced unknown.
The only populist issue that the Democrats can plausibly try to litigate is trade.
And they will lose that argument to a Donald Trump. Because he does it better. And it aligns better with the mentality of social regressiveness and closed politics.

This setting aside that it will amount to a poorer US overall.
 

Meowster

Member
One thing that also has to be taken into account with Kander is that he's insanely fuckable.

Just noticing that after looking through his Twitter feed.

And that can matter when we're analyzing how he did so well. May not be a huge part of it, but could matter.
I don't disagree. I was more hopeful and inspired by his campaign thanks to how personal it was than anything else. I loved getting to meet and know him in my state. And I still am even though he lost. He'd be a great person to run for President some day. How do we get him there though?
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
What we need is someone with so much charisma that the media can't help but follow them around like a teenage girl in love and report on their every word, playing everything they say on the cable news channels on a goddamned loop. Just like they did with Bill and Obama.
 
Yeah, we should probably try to focus on Trump robbing the government next time over his racism and misogyny unfortunately.

I think WWC voters care a lot more about the former :/
 
It's a reality. The Dems pitch a big tent which includes a lot of economic centrists. You can't go too far to either side. Obama struck a good balance. So did Hillary, she just never talked about it.

You have to avalanche the realities of globalism having already won with the need to take care of those who were left behind by it.

Trade wars and breaking up banks will cost you at least 10% of moderate Dems.

Nailed it

I know my mom and dad are life long democrats but always balked at the thought of Bernie. I tried to sell them on Bernies policies and message during the primaries but they always just rolled their eyes at me :/
 
It's a reality. The Dems pitch a big tent which includes a lot of economic centrists. You can't go too far to either side. Obama struck a good balance. So did Hillary, she just never talked about it.

You have to avalanche the realities of globalism having already won with the need to take care of those who were left behind by it.

Trade wars and breaking up banks will cost you at least 10% of moderate Dems.

Breaking up the banks is a far left thing now?
 
It's a reality. The Dems pitch a big tent which includes a lot of economic centrists. You can't go too far to either side. Obama struck a good balance. So did Hillary, she just never talked about it.

You have to avalanche the realities of globalism having already won with the need to take care of those who were left behind by it.

Trade wars and breaking up banks will cost you at least 10% of moderate Dems.
Oh, I know this. But I think you're at an uphill battle trying to convince anyone whose amazing power of hindsight among the millions of post-mortems thinks that running around talking about single payer would have won this.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Oh, I know this. But I think you're at an uphill battle trying to convince anyone who's amazing power of hindsight among the millions of post-mortems thinks that running around talking about single payer would have won this.

But single payer died a horrible death in Colorado of all places.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
over/under on Trump nominating Garland as a symbol of unity?
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Here's an article about Booker and the mirage his media team created - http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...bout-cory-booker-new-jersey-s-golden-boy.html. The Newark Watershed stuff would sink him in a primary.

What’s more, Booker has once again found himself challenged by a Republican candidate who seems like he does not even want to win—a gold standard-obsessed former Reagan speechwriter named Jeff Bell, who has not lived in the Garden State for thirty years, is rumored to be running his campaign operation out of a hotel lobby, and whose idea of an attractive platform is to attack unmarried women for skewing left-wing because they are dependent on food stamps.

With today's revelations about the Pied Piper DNC strategy, I'm going to go and assume this Republican is on the Dem's payroll.

edit: Oh wait the article says the same thing lol

So even though it seems plausible that Bell is a Democratic plant sent to further weaken the Republican Party in New Jersey, Booker—celebrity, super hero, motivational tweeter—is barely polling above 50 percent.
 

pigeon

Banned
The email story was the perfect storm of shit people just did not get and just assumed it was 100% bad. I'll forever be frustrated by it since I have a background in tech and software.
The media, not knowing how shit worked either, just made it worse and more muddy.

It's actually way more painful than that, if you want to follow me for a second.

The Comey letter can't happen without the discovery of emails on Weiner's computer.

But it turns out, of course, that all of those emails were personal or duplicate.

So why were those emails there in the first place?

Well, Huma had an iPhone. Like most of us with iPhones, she occasionally needed to charge her phone and didn't have a little plug available. So she'd plug it into the nearest computer.

At least once, that was Weiner's computer.

The world was just changed forever by iTunes Auto Backup.
 

HylianTom

Banned
What we need is someone with so much charisma that the media can't help but follow them around like a teenage girl in love and report on their every word, playing everything they say on the cable news channels on a goddamned loop. Just like they did with Bill and Obama.

Basically, our own Trudeau.
 
It's actually way more painful than that, if you want to follow me for a second.

The Comey letter can't happen without the discovery of emails on Weiner's computer.

But it turns out, of course, that all of those emails were personal or duplicate.

So why were those emails there in the first place?

Well, Huma had an iPhone. Like most of us with iPhones, she occasionally needed to charge her phone and didn't have a little plug available. So she'd plug it into the nearest computer.

At least once, that was Weiner's computer.

The world was just changed forever by iTunes Auto Backup.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 

sphagnum

Banned
Refusing to support the Dems if they adopt a protectionist trade policy when doing so gives more power to the GOP, who, you know, hate minorities and gays and women and Muslims and so forth, seems like it displays a bad set of priorities to me.

I hate neoliberalism but I still vote Dem when I need to because it is necessary to protect those without the privileges that I have.
 
I'm kind of hoping the "trade is bad" stuff is dead by 2020 following the massive recession Trump's policies in that area are about to cause. Rural America is going to feel the pain on that especially hard, since it'll drop the levels of their exports and raise the costs of their imports.
 

Meowster

Member
I'm still so very downcast and depressed. I know it's not popular right now to say but Hillary has been a hero of mine for years. And she lost despite it all. And a lot of the fault falls on her and Democrats. I won't stop seeing her as inspiring figure in my life but it's time to keep moving. It was even more depressing to see all the races in my state go R even though all the signs pointed otherwise (at least at the Governor level). This was the first time I was this involved but it certainly won't be the last. Going to try and get even further involved with what remains of the Democratic Party in Missouri and see what I can do to help out, especially now.
 

ampere

Member
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