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[StoOgE]

So then help me out here... What would be a moderate view on what to do with the banks?

Dodd Frank.

As the former global co-head of regulatory relations for two very large banks, it severely lessened systemic risk, made bank portfolios much more conservative and limited the creation of overly risky assets by requiring banks to not completely divest themselves of derivatives they created.

Regulate and monitor.

The story that no one went to jail and nothing ever changed in banking regulation is a big fat fucking lie.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Exactly. We need someone with charisma for days, with an endless supply of cool. People need to hang on his every word like it's the only thing that matters.

Gavin Newsom might be your guy.

 

[Debirudog]

Refusing to support the Dems if they adopt a protectionist trade policy when doing so gives more power to the GOP, who, you know, hate minorities and gays and women and Muslims and so forth, seems like it displays a bad set of priorities to me.

I hate neoliberalism but I still vote Dem when I need to because it is necessary to protect those without the privileges that I have.

But globalism is good. -shot-

 

[ampere]

over/under on Trump nominating Garland as a symbol of unity?

0 and he'd still get shot down by Congress

 

[excelsiorlef]

But single payer died a horrible death in Colorado of all places.

You know what some concluded from that?

It has to be a national fight, can't be faught at state level.

 

[BradC00]

So apparently Obama disrespected veterans today at Arlington? How?

Haven't heard anything about this, but it's probably something like saluting with a cup in his hand.

 

[BronzeWolf]

So.

About this 2018 thing.

I think it's going to look like a fight worth fighting for.

Meanwhile here in Mexico, presidential elections are just going to get started as of July 2017 the latest.

Will Trump play a big role in that?

 

[B-Dubs]

Gavin Newsom might be your guy.

Nooooooooope. He's got way too much baggage. We need someone clean on top of it, or at least slick. He's just too slimy, not shiny enough. Like he looks like an 80's banker that is also a serial killer on the side because banking isn't enough of a challenge. He looks like he listens to Huey Lewis and the News.

 

[Cheebo]

You know what some concluded from that?

It has to be a national fight, can't be faught at state level.

Yes because nationally it would be waaaaaay more popular than the liberal Colorado. Democrats aren't going to touch single payer anytime soon, not in the next 20 years.

 

[Barzul]

Nailed it

I know my mom and dad are life long democrats but always balked at the thought of Bernie. I tried to sell them on Bernies policies and message during the primaries but they always just rolled their eyes at me :/

My cousin loves Obama told me he'd vote Kasich, Jeb and Rubio over Bernie back during primary season. I was stunned.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Fighting AIDS is just one of those things that hurt you with the white working class.

Fighting AIDS causes economic anxiety...

 

[Debirudog]

Yeah, if someone has a scandal, he's already off the list for me. We can't afford -gasp- bad optics because people can't reason for themselves especially with social and tv media.

 

[StoOgE]

Refusing to support the Dems if they adopt a protectionist trade policy when doing so gives more power to the GOP, who, you know, hate minorities and gays and women and Muslims and so forth, seems like it displays a bad set of priorities to me.

I hate neoliberalism but I still vote Dem when I need to because it is necessary to protect those without the privileges that I have.

But globalism goes hand in hand with pluralism and is one of the chief reasons we have made so many social strides.

Protectionism and blaming 'others' including those from other nations and closing borders is going to do far more for racism than a moderate Republican like Jeb Bush for increasing hate in this world.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Nooooooooope. He's got way too much baggage. We need someone clean on top of it, or at least slick. He's just too slimy, not shiny enough.

I agree he has the used car salesman slime about him but what is the baggage you are concerned about?

 

[B-Dubs]

I agree he has the used car salesman slime about him but what is the baggage you are concerned about?

Didn't he cheat on his wife or something? Plus he looks like Patrick Bateman.

 

[UltimaPooh]

Dodd Frank.

As the former global co-head of regulatory relations for two very large banks, it severely lessened systemic risk, made bank portfolios much more conservative and limited the creation of overly risky assets by requiring banks to not completely divest themselves of derivatives they created.

Regulate and monitor.

The story that no one went to jail and nothing ever changed in banking regulation is a big fat fucking lie.

Alright. I'm not attacking you here... I'm just curious.

So you don't think there should be a reverse course on making any of the banks that got bigger due to the financial collapse by absorbing others should be made smaller?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Pop staying king. Too bad Belichick is such a piece of shit. Fuck the Pats



NBA has some great woke people. LeBron is amazing and cares about social issues.

Yeah I've pretty much 200% changed my opinion of him... I was blinded by "The Decision" coverage

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Didn't he cheat on his wife or something? Plus he looks like Patrick Bateman.

Literally a guy with 5 kids by 3 women (and a history of extramarital...fuckery) is President Elect.

 

[MHWilliams]

Refusing to support the Dems if they adopt a protectionist trade policy when doing so gives more power to the GOP, who, you know, hate minorities and gays and women and Muslims and so forth, seems like it displays a bad set of priorities to me.

I hate neoliberalism but I still vote Dem when I need to because it is necessary to protect those without the privileges that I have.

The problem with that argument is it's applicable to many things, like refusing to support the Dems if they don't adopt a protectionist trade policy.

If we all agree on that point that the GOP is that poor, then there should never be a reason to not support the Democrats.

In reality, we've been shown that doesn't work out.

 

[B-Dubs]

Literally a guy with 5 kids by 3 women (and a history of extramarital...fuckery) is President Elect.

Yea but the right doesn't give a rat's ass about that stuff, the left does.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Literally a guy with 5 kids by 3 women (and a history of extramarital...fuckery) is President Elect.

Dems are held to a different (higher) standard by their base and the media than Republicans.

 

[kirblar]

Protectionism hurts everyone- minority or non-minority.

 

[Gruco]

Barack Obama lead the economy back from the brink, saved the US auto industry, expanded health insurance while slowing cost growth, left Iraq, left Afghanistan, besieged ISIS, killed bin Laden, dramatically expanded the Pell program, invested in clean energy, opened borders with Cuba, stopped Iraq from getting nuclear weapons and enabled them to start moving towards democracy. He substantially re-regulated Wall street, he made the tax system more progressive, allowed LGBT to serve in the military and legalized marriage.

This is Obama's America.

As thanks, the left called him a sellout and asked for radical change. The right engaged in a relentless pitched race war.

It's been said a lot over the last week. But it's true. We didn't deserve him.

 

[StoOgE]

Alright. I'm not attacking you here... I'm just curious.

So you don't think there should be a reverse course on making any of the banks that got bigger due to the financial collapse by absorbing others should be made smaller?

I think k there is an argument in Europe for some divestiture, but the US actually has a ton of banks compared to most of the world. So no.

 

[pigeon]

Alright. I'm not attacking you here... I'm just curious.

So you don't think there should be a reverse course on making any of the banks that got bigger due to the financial collapse by absorbing others should be made smaller?

What is the goal of making banks smaller? It seems like a relatively arbitrary metric. What systemic good do you think that imparts?

(Whoa, a policy discussion that isn't about whether minorities deserve to live. Feels refreshing.)

 

[ryutaro's mama]

The counter for Trump in 4 years needs to be Nixon vs. JFK degree of visual difference.

Minus the Marilyn.

 

[Revolver]

There was a report on NewsHour about teachers from across the country and how they're dealing with the election in the classroom. They're seeing increased bullying, students saying they no longer have to be politically correct, minority kids stressed out and crying, swastikas spray painted here and there and one teacher in Ohio talked about kids decked out in MAGA hats and shirts just thrilled. Acts of intimidation increasing at every level from grade school to college. I feel like this country is just rotten to the core.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yes because nationally it would be waaaaaay more popular than the liberal Colorado. Democrats aren't going to touch single payer anytime soon, not in the next 20 years.

I rarely believe in incrementalism but I think that is how it has to be done

People point to Canada but it wasn't a national movement first.

It started provincially and took decades of work.

 

[Davilmar]

Hey, I appreciate your response. When I read "Bernie supporters don't need to apologize" combined with talk about how awful and smug Clinton supporters were, I took that as part of the "Bernie got stabbed in the back" narrative. Which I assess as scapegoating and think needs to die a horrible death.

Reading your response here and then rereading the post I originally replied to, I may have inferred to much. So I can respond to your text more specifically.

There has been heartfelt reflection in this thread. I want to see the same amount of reflection from Sanders supporters. All parties had an equal amount of responsibility to elect the next president. Instead of complaining about how unreasonable GAF was, maybe talk about how Bernie failed, instead of how you think a shockingly narrow loss under utterly abnormal circumstances lead to a need to clean house. Because if Bernie was the answer, there are very clear and specific reasons he failed to show that that's the case.

I deeply appreciate the response. It is hard not to infer someone based on their writings online, and I admit I came off hard hitting. The election has been taken personally for a lot of people, and living in Florida has revealed a lot of naked and casual racism. Let's be serious about Sanders. He's an amazing dude, but he's a 70-plus year old Senator from a state with no minorities, a profile no one cared for before this election, could be called a wacky socialist, and looks like Doc Brown. I had no illusions with his many struggles in a general election, but his message resonated with me. Seeing how harshly I got treated by the Clinton people, Sanders was really the only place I could head to. The Democratic Party needs to raise and foster a new generation of leaders that can foster a more economically inclusive party.

There absolutely needs to be reflection on both sides, no doubt. Cleaning house to me means having a leadership that better reflects the middle and working class, and not the upper middle class to business elites that have dominated the party. Their resources and experience are still needed in the party, but the interests have to shift from a top-bottom to a bottom-top viewpoint. Bernie failed fro numerous reasons, including ignoring the South (which pissed me off to no end). We ultimately had a weak primary contest, and I think a better pool of candidates would have left us in a better position. We also need to stop destroying one another, something I fucked up as well. Republicans, for all their faults, will fall in line and campaign in a singular theme.

 

[whyamihere]

GAVIN NEWSOM HAS A CLOSET OF HOOKERS AND BLOW, DO NOT ENGAGE.

 

[Syncytia]

Yea but the right doesn't give a rat's ass about that stuff, the left does.

I don't know if it's so much they care, but trying to point out the obvious hypocrisy of the right.

 

[UltimaPooh]

What is the goal of making banks smaller? It seems like a relatively arbitrary metric. What systemic good do you think that imparts?

(Whoa, a policy discussion that isn't about whether minorities deserve to live. Feels refreshing.)

I honestly don't know... I was just wanting to see what Stooge's thoughts on it were... Maybe see what he'd be willing to compromise and where.

I would say tho that smaller and more banks means they have less ability to have collusion and thus lead to systemic fraud. But I can see that leading to a lot of political capital being spent to get it done.

I think k there is an argument in Europe for some divestiture, but the US actually has a ton of banks compared to most of the world. So no.

So where does Wells Fargo fall in all of this? A bank that still committed fraud despite Dodd Frank. They also acquired Wachovia in the financial collapse.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

GAVIN NEWSOM HAS A CLOSET OF HOOKERS AND BLOW, DO NOT ENGAGE.

So what you're saying is he could win.

 

[sphagnum]

But globalism goes hand in hand with pluralism and is one of the chief reasons we have made so many social strides.

Protectionism and blaming 'others' including those from other nations and closing borders is going to do far more for racism than a moderate Republican like Jeb Bush for increasing hate in this world.

I'm not a protectionist, but I'm also not a capitalist. But you know the GOP isn't going to change its social policies any time soon, so if the Dems DID adopt a more closed economic policy then you have to face that dilemma.

 

[Debirudog]

Taking away globalism and trade would only strengthen China and other big countries with far more worse treatment of employees. Despite it's problems, globalism provides oppurtunities for poor families of foreign states to get a little more than they could get. The problem however, is that big corps kinda aren't regulated in this regard so I hope the governments can regulate the corporations to allow safer factories. Look at how Hong Kong benefits from globalism thanks to American trade. What I think, is that we need to protect the workers with provisions similar to what Hillary Clinton proposed until TPP took away those provisions.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Dodd Frank.

As the former global co-head of regulatory relations for two very large banks, it severely lessened systemic risk, made bank portfolios much more conservative and limited the creation of overly risky assets by requiring banks to not completely divest themselves of derivatives they created.

Regulate and monitor.

The story that no one went to jail and nothing ever changed in banking regulation is a big fat fucking lie.

I asked this earlier in the thread, but I assume it got lost:

Since you have expressed interest in running for Congress, how are you going to deal with the negative in the primary about your business experience.

The Bernie Wing is looking very likely to control the party with the endorsements Ellison racked up.

 

[kirblar]

What is the goal of making banks smaller? It seems like a relatively arbitrary metric. What systemic good do you think that imparts?

(Whoa, a policy discussion that isn't about whether minorities deserve to live. Feels refreshing.)

Our system of having a lot of small banks that die and get mulched into other banks....has a lot of issues. One of them being that because they're small and regional, they're very vulnerable to shocks in local real estate markets.

One of my professors in college vastly preferred the Canadian system, where there's 5-6 gigantic banks dominating everything and a bunch of smaller credit unions. Because of their national size, they're not nearly as vulnerable to local shocks like what hit Florida in '08.

 

[B-Dubs]

So what you're saying is he could win.

He is Patrick Bateman is what we are saying.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Refusing to support the Dems if they adopt a protectionist trade policy when doing so gives more power to the GOP, who, you know, hate minorities and gays and women and Muslims and so forth, seems like it displays a bad set of priorities to me.

I hate neoliberalism but I still vote Dem when I need to because it is necessary to protect those without the privileges that I have.

The US hasn't realigned "properly" under the new political paradigm.
http://www.economist.com/news/brief...s-not-between-left-and-right-between-open-and

Pluralistic, global looking openness.
Nationalist, protectionist, closedness.

Too many shitty GOP voters didn't cross over.

 

[StoOgE]

I asked this earlier in the thread, but I assume it got lost:

Since you have expressed interest in running for Congress, how are you going to deal with the negative in the primary about your business experience.

The Bernie Wing is looking very likely to control the party with the endorsements Ellison racked up.

Hays County, Northwest San Antonio and Lakeway? Just a small sliver of SW Austin.

Not the primary I'm worried about

 

[Holmes]

GAVIN NEWSOM HAS A CLOSET OF HOOKERS AND BLOW, DO NOT ENGAGE.

Yeah. He'll be our next governor though.

 

[B-Dubs]

Yeah. He'll be our next governor though.

If he comes out to Huey Lewis and the News you guys might want to bail out.

 

[sphagnum]

The US hasn't realigned "properly" under the new political paradigm.
http://www.economist.com/news/brief...s-not-between-left-and-right-between-open-and

Pluralistic, global looking openness.
Nationalist, protectionist, closedness.

Too many shitty GOP voters didn't cross over.

Yeah I've read that before, but I don't know what that had to do with what I'm saying.

I'm saying putting neoliberalism over minority security is bad, in the same way that I (not specifically here) constantly get told that putting socialism over minority security is bad (and which is why I vote Dem!)

 

[Revolver]

He is Patrick Bateman is what we are saying.

Well Bateman's idol is running things now. And two of his clones wandering around the White House.

 

[StoOgE]

So where does Wells Fargo fall in all of this? A bank that still committed fraud despite Dodd Frank. They also acquired Wachovia in the financial collapse.

What Wells did has nothing to do with 08 or Dodd Frank.

It was just new accounts people at local branches having sales pressure applied to them. Nothing at all to do with systemic banking risk.

Also, Wells has been doing that since 01 when I worked there as a part time teller. That's just shifty sales tactics, not an actual risk to the global economy.

 

[Gruco]

I deeply appreciate the response. It is hard not to infer someone based on their writings online, and I admit I came off hard hitting. The election has been taken personally for a lot of people, and living in Florida has revealed a lot of naked and casual racism. Let's be serious about Sanders. He's an amazing dude, but he's a 70-plus year old Senator from a state with no minorities, a profile no one cared for before this election, could be called a wacky socialist, and looks like Doc Brown. I had no illusions with his many struggles in a general election, but his message resonated with me. Seeing how harshly I got treated by the Clinton people, Sanders was really the only place I could head to. The Democratic Party needs to raise and foster a new generation of leaders that can foster a more economically inclusive party.

There absolutely needs to be reflection on both sides, no doubt. Cleaning house to me means having a leadership that better reflects the middle and working class, and not the upper middle class to business elites that have dominated the party. Their resources and experience are still needed in the party, but the interests have to shift from a top-bottom to a bottom-top viewpoint. Bernie failed fro numerous reasons, including ignoring the South (which pissed me off to no end). We ultimately had a weak primary contest, and I think a better pool of candidates would have left us in a better position. We also need to stop destroying one another, something I fucked up as well. Republicans, for all their faults, will fall in line and campaign in a singular theme.

The election has hit everyone hard. My faith in this country has been almost completely shattered. I am in a near constant state of despair and rage in the normalization of hate and the haste with which people just want to sweep that under the rug. And I am a straight white male. I "won". I can't even imagine life right now as someone who doesn't the same privileges I do.

The primary pool was weak and that hurt the democrats, I think everyone can agree with that. Biden and Warren should have been in there. Hopefully we never see that mistake again.

I have spent almost my whole day in this thread. I should be doing other things with my life but it is so hard to focus on anything else now. The point I've wanted to get across is simple. We are in this together. The path ahead will be a horror show, but it is now unavoidable.

 

[Donthizz#]

Poor Gavin Newsom can't catch a break on gaf. lol

 

[pigeon]

I honestly don't know... I was just wanting to see what Stooge's thoughts on it were... Maybe see what he'd be willing to compromise and where.

I mean, with all due respect, how could you agree to a compromise with him when you don't know why you want the thing you want? How would you know if the compromise solution achieves your goals?

I would say tho that smaller and more banks means they have less ability to have collusion and thus lead to systemic fraud. But I can see that leading to a lot of political capital being spent to get it done.

I'm not sure why smaller banks would be able to collude less. Arguably, the more banks you have, the less time regulators have to spend investigating each individual bank.

So where does Wells Fargo fall in all of this? A bank that still committed fraud despite Dodd Frank. They also acquired Wachovia in the financial collapse.

Dodd-Frank really can't protect you from general management incompetence. The Wells Fargo fraud was pretty simple -- Wells Fargo employees were given a metric based on how many people opened multiple accounts, and the employees who didn't hit their goals were fired.

Unsurprisingly, those employees quickly figured out that the easiest way to hit this metric was to open a bunch of fake accounts for people, so that's what they did.

The rest is just a whole bunch of bad management, firing of whistleblowers, condoning of ongoing illicit behavior that hits metrics, etc., etc. If you wanted to attack Wells Fargo for having a clearly worthless company culture and management team, that would be on point. But it has nothing to do with systemic risk or anything Dodd-Frank did.

It's also important to remember that almost all these accounts were free products (because it makes it easier to open without people noticing). The Wells Fargo fraud didn't even make Wells Fargo any money! It's a pure laboratory example of a poorly understood metric leading to counterproductive behavior. Just usually the counterproductive behavior doesn't result in an SEC lawsuit.

 

[thehypocrite]

The US hasn't realigned "properly" under the new political paradigm.
http://www.economist.com/news/brief...s-not-between-left-and-right-between-open-and

Pluralistic, global looking openness.
Nationalist, protectionist, closedness.

Too many shitty GOP voters didn't cross over.

Or maybe you need to to give something to those communities when you surrender their jobs to trade. Saying too bad those jobs aren't coming back apparently doesn't work. Also, remember that these people have no idea what The Economist is, so you need visit the parking lots, the McDs and other places to reach them.

 

[Dan]

I thought was a solid pair of pieces from NPR about Trump and his coal plans.

Trump's Victory Elevates Hopes For People In Coal Country

Trump's Plan For Clean Coal Could Put The Brakes On Natural Gas

In short, he's screwed. He promised to bring back coal jobs while also further unleashing the natural gas industry, and it's the cheap cost of the latter that has killed the former. Someone's gonna get the shaft.

Perhaps there's a glimmer of hope with one of the coal miners explicitly saying they'll take note if Republicans fail to deliver on coal.