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[jtb]

we know Trump is all about a hobbsian, zero-sum view of the world. the ACA will be his easiest opportunity to pit democrats against republicans and gain maximum leverage against the GOP leadership.

if the democrats are pawns in his power struggle with ryan and mcconnel, i have no problem with that if it provides an opportunity to protect as much of the ACA as we possibly can. con the con man.

 

[Totakeke]

Trump can't write actual policy himself, and we all know how lovely his cabinet is.

 

[metalslimer]

You know Obama flattered him into wanting to keep parts of the bill. Obama was probably insanely prepared for that meeting because he knows how susceptible this guy is to flattery. Now that he's on record supporting it it'll be hard to go back. The good thing is that Trump is an idiot who is extremely malleable. The bad thing is he has surrounded himself with the legion of doom.

Democrats might be able to con him into passing some of our agenda because he doesn't know what the fuck any of this means. He doesn't like to be told no and may turn on his advisors when he realizes how limited he is.

Pence likely knows this and is moving to secure greater than Dick Cheney like power.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Trump can't write actual policy himself, and we all know how lovely his cabinet is.

Luckily for him ALEC has his back.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I'd just ad that for some the shift away from Sanders came earlier, I was an early Sanders supporter but wasn't really active on GAF about it because I just wasn't that active on GAF back then, then the data theft and his response to that happened in December and I got a little concerned and then the "Planned Parenthood is the establishment" fiasco happened in January and that was it for me.

Those two events I think were pretty key and those came pretty early.

Sure. I can go with that. Its around the primaries I remember PoliGAF had about 4 regular Sanders supporters, 2 of who got banned. OT generally was more open to Sanders than PoliGAF specifically was too.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I hope Friedman is right that if Trump pulls the US out of climate change agreements there will be a massive backlash.

 

[pigeon]

Sure. I can go with that. Its around the primaries I remember PoliGAF had about 4 regular Sanders supporters, 2 of who got banned. OT generally was more open to Sanders than PoliGAF specifically was too.

Let's be clear -- they both got banned for racist and/or sexist rants.

 

[mackaveli]

You know Obama flattered him into wanting to keep parts of the bill. Obama was probably insanely prepared for that meeting because he knows how susceptible this guy is to flattery. Now that he's on record supporting it it'll be hard to go back. The good thing is that Trump is an idiot who is extremely malleable. The bad thing is he has surrounded himself with the legion of doom.

Democrats might be able to con him into passing some of our agenda because he doesn't know what the fuck any of this means. He doesn't like to be told no and may turn on his advisors when he realizes how limited he is.

Pence likely knows this and is moving to secure greater than Dick Cheney like power.

Exactly. It just sucks that Obama didn't meet him right after he won and whisper sweet something in his ear. Because you can mould Trump into what you want. But since everyone on the left, centre, and sane republican's made fun of him or didn't like him Trump doesn't forget and now he has gone and picked the legion of doom.

It's not official so maybe Obama will keep trying behind the scenes to say nice things and somehow get through to him. One can just hope.

The only two people who I haven't really heard say anything about Trump negatively are Pelosi and Schumer. I haven't seem them come out too strongly against Trump. I wish those two could meet with Trump and perhaps if they flattered him as well he wouldn't be too poisoned already by the alt right.

Edit - What if Pelosi was like oh Donald you have some of the nicest properties in USA. Why don't you use your strengths and help build these nice airports or infrastructure because we are with you. Trump would probably be so flattered and then work with Democrats are trying to get this through and McConnell and Ryan might oppose it and then Trump would be on our side.

 

[jtb]

I hope Friedman is right that if Trump pulls the US out of climate change agreements there will be a massive backlash.

The problem is there is no mechanism for making them pay a political price. Our politics is national, yet all of our political systems are so localized.

 

[UltimaPooh]

Sure. I can go with that. Its around the primaries I remember PoliGAF had about 4 regular Sanders supporters, 2 of who got banned. OT generally was more open to Sanders than PoliGAF specifically was too.

I tried to stick around as a Bernie-stan. Typically HilGAF would have a lot of good points in their arguments but I ultimately didn't really return due to a lot of gloating on their part in the primaries. I know I know #notallhilgaf typically it was mostly Adam and a few outliers.

But I'm back and here now and wanting to find a way forward with the rest of PoliGAF.

 

[PInk Tape]

Luckily for him ALEC has his back.

Ugh. Didn't even entertain that until now.

Fuck Alec.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Let's be clear -- they both got banned for racist and/or sexist rants.

Actually one at least got banned for some profanity directed at another poster.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

The problem is there is no mechanism for making them pay a political price. Our politics is national, yet all of our political systems are so localized.

And I don't think anyone wants to run a revolution any time against Trump.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Why are you discussing moderation policy? Are we bored of the blame game?

 

[Frank the Great]

Starting in January, Dems need to start pounding home a narrative that Trump is a con man who was never interested in looking out for regular people.

Every little thing he does--appointing corporate cronies, backing out of climate deals to benefit oil companies, lowering taxes on the wealthy, etc.--needs to be drilled the fuck home. Get surrogates on every cable news show, put out internet and Facebook ads, drive it home. Attack him the way they attacked Hillary years before the election create a narrative about her. We know the upcoming battle, let's frame it out way for once.

That is the only way you defeat a populist. Attack his strength and turn it into a weakness. It should be incredibly easy do this because IT'S TRUE that Trump doesn't give a shit about normal people.

 

[eBay Huckster]

instead of unproductively blaming each other for a complicated loss, let's instead unproductively attack moderation policy in public

y'all wanted anyone other than kev and shinra in here all election? y'all think those two were biased against you? then maybe you should've been PMing the other mods rather than passively letting those two "run roughshod" all over the place like you allege they did

 

[Elaugaufein]

Why are you discussing moderation policy? Are we bored of the blame game?

We aren't really ? I just mentioned it as one reason PoliGAF was so lopsided.

 

[Debirudog]

And I don't think anyone wants to run a revolution any time against Trump.

I want one. Maybe not right now but as soon as he pumps out one huge fucked up policy.

 

[jtb]

I hope John Roberts is watching the bullshit that is unfolding right now. "History did not end in 1965." Jesus fucking christ. Now I'm angry all over again.

Does he have a cable subscription? Has he tuned into a Trump rally on CNN? Ugh.

 

[shinra-bansho]

How about you all stop talking about other posters.
And go back to actual discussion.

 

[Gruco]

If we have any sort of terrorist attack man I don't know.

We are already so shook right now. Can you fucking imagine this guy trying to cool everyone down?

Regardless of whatever GWB was.. He did well to calm people a bit shortly after 9/11. He at least inspired some sort of assurance. What the fuck happens now.

9-11
Cuban Missile Crisis
Pearl Harbor
Sandy Hook
Hurricane Katrina

What happens at the next major police shooting protests? Or if he can't handle the protest insults at his inauguration?

I mean, I guess he has Pence for all major foreign and domestic policy, but....

 

[ampere]

Guys ive been trying to hold it together but im so scared

Im so scared about them dismantling our entire system of checks and balances while they have the chance.

Ppl say they wont kill the filibuster because they might need it someday...
Everyone knows as time goes on the demographics shift further away from them.
They dont care if they cant fillabust in the future. They are a dying cornered animal.
They are going to do DRASTIC things while they have the power because they know they may never have it again.

Its fucking terrifying

Im 37. And lazy and tired and i work hard and im a pothead and id rather be at home. But I cant stay home anymore. I have to get more involved. I have to help. Because this isnt okay.

/hug <3

I feel ya man. Feeling the same way right now.

I think tomorrow morning I'm going to call Planned Parenthood and see if I can volunteer at a local site or see what I could do to help. That's gonna be my first step.

 

[excelsiorlef]

/hug <3

I feel ya man. Feeling the same way right now.

I think tomorrow morning I'm going to call Planned Parenthood and see if I can volunteer at a local site or see what I could do to help. That's gonna be my first step.

<3

 

[ampere]

Regardless of whatever GWB was.. He did well to calm people a bit shortly after 9/11. He at least inspired some sort of assurance. What the fuck happens now.

He made a lot of horrible decisions, but at least he didn't go out and try to demonize American Muslims. Trump ran his campaign on that

 

[A Human Becoming]

I tried to stick around as a Bernie-stan. Typically HilGAF would have a lot of good points in their arguments but I ultimately didn't really return due to a lot of gloating on their part in the primaries. I know I know #notallhilgaf typically it was mostly Adam and a few outliers.

But I'm back and here now and wanting to find a way forward with the rest of PoliGAF.

This was my situation as well, except I thought adam was one of the most reasonable. People on both sides got out of control in the primaries.

Next time around all I care about is picking a candidate who can win. Straight ticketing voting is so prevalent now a losing candidate can really hurt the down ticket races, resulting in Republicans obtaining more power outside the presidency.

 

[whyamihere]

This was my situation as well, except I thought adam was one of the most reasonable. People on both sides got out of control in the primaries.

Next time around all I care about is picking a candidate who can win. Straight ticketing voting is so prevalent now a losing candidate can really hurt the down ticket races, resulting in Republicans obtaining more power outside the presidency.

Honestly, CA is so late, I'm just going to vote for the person next time who's polling best against Trump.

 

[UltimaPooh]

Honestly, CA is so late, I'm just going to vote for the person next time who's polling best against Trump.

Polls don't matter anymore if we've learned anything.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

I know Maine is only 4 EVs but dems should probably keep an eye on it. It hasn't been this red since the 80's

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Polls don't matter anymore if we've learned anything.

yup

all polls were wrong

it was something

 

[whyamihere]

Polls don't matter anymore if we've learned anything.

Ugh.

 

[Glix]

Thread title gave me a sad smile.

We're gonna fly a lot of flags half mast.

 

[Debirudog]

Never believe too much in the polls. Survey what people are saying and how they're responding. Take it all seriously.

 

[jtb]

The Dems cannot afford more scorched earth primaries. When the candidates have so little daylight on the issues, they really have to take the knives out and go at each other pretty personally -- and that's no healthy way to win general elections.

 

[pigeon]

Honestly, CA is so late, I'm just going to vote for the person next time who's polling best against Trump.

I plan to vote for the candidate that the establishment backs. They're generally pretty smart and organized.

 

[thehypocrite]

Polls don't matter anymore if we've learned anything.

They matter as a tool for the decision making process, however they can't be your only tool and you need to understand the context in which the data in them was obtained.

Poll are just approximations using limited information, you need to complement that with other data sources to have an accurate picture, even, ahem, anecdotal reports and others.

 

[Debirudog]

the primaries need to get a little less personal and more chummy however impossible that might sound. No more shit slinging.

 

[whyamihere]

The Dems cannot afford more scorched earth primaries. When the candidates have so little daylight on the issues, they really have to take the knives out and go at each other pretty personally -- and that's no healthy way to win general elections.

Worked for Obama.

 

[UltimaPooh]

Here's a thought that popped into my head... How many debates did the Dems have vs Republicans during primaries. I'm pretty sure the GOP had plenty more than the Dems.

We could always use more debates.

 

[kirblar]

The Dems cannot afford more scorched earth primaries. When the candidates have so little daylight on the issues, they really have to take the knives out and go at each other pretty personally -- and that's no healthy way to win general elections.

I'd argue Clinton not going scorched-earth on Sanders was a huge mistake.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

the primaries need to get a little less personal and more chummy however impossible that might sound. No more shit slinging.

lol

the fastest way you get people to turn against candidates is by letting the candidates show that they're all chummy and friendly. Reeks establishment.

 

[whyamihere]

I'd argue Clinton not going scorched-earth on Sanders was a huge mistake.

No coronation. Needed to be a full fight.

 

[dramatis]

I don't think Bernie would've taken the minority vote for granted. I think he would've worked hard to gain as many of their votes as he could, though I see that you could be right and maybe he'd lose ground there. I think he could bat away the socialist concerns pretty easily though. I mean, we're sitting here thinking we understand the electorate and what they do and don't like and a serial sexual abuser just won the presidency. Apparently people only care about jobs (oversimplification but you get what I'm saying).

I think he would.

In the aftermath of the election, the ones who came out against Trump's hatred and bigotry were Hillary and Harry Reid, without any of the excuses of 'economic anxiety'. Sanders made a milquetoast statement that clearly prioritized the white working class over any sort of garbage Trump fostered.

I made quite a long post about this on the day after the election, but when push comes to shove, do you really think Sanders wouldn't pick his 'economic populism' over civil rights? The man's whole career was based on his 'democratic socialist' ideals. There's a reason he moved to Vermont, it's so that he could focus on his favored issue and not have to worry about the wants of a diverse electorate in NY.

 

[Crocodile]

I'd argue Clinton not going scorched-earth on Sanders was a huge mistake.

I'm not sure I follow? The primary would have just gotten worse? Or do you mean she should have popped the bubble around him because you are afraid his influence on the party now in due part to his popularity might be a bad thing even if he means well?

 

[Suikoguy]

Here's a thought that popped into my head... How many debates did the Dems have vs Republicans during primaries. I'm pretty sure the GOP had plenty more than the Dems.

We could always use more debates.

Debates are really bullshit anymore.

Someone floated the idea of having a couple hour long grill session by someone. Delve into policy and plans a bit more. You can't do shit in 3 minutes at a debate.

 

[watershed]

One post election message that is really popular but annoying me a lot right now is the "we need to love each other" message.

When couched in a larger, more complex argument for what to do in this new Trump-reality, I agree. People most vulnerable need to hug each other closer, to find strength for and in each other, we need more empathy for others who are different than us, etc.

But a lot of people with a lot of unexamined privilege are posting these "love is the answer" blanket statements that sound so empty and not representative of why so many people are afraid and feeling unsafe right now.

 

[Kinsei]

Here's a thought that popped into my head... How many debates did the Dems have vs Republicans during primaries. I'm pretty sure the GOP had plenty more than the Dems.

We could always use more debates.

There were 6 debates for the dems. For comparison there were 25 for the 2008 election.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I'd argue Clinton not going scorched-earth on Sanders was a huge mistake.

Nah she couldn't afford to do it....


They hated her enough as it is...

 

[jtb]

I'd argue Clinton not going scorched-earth on Sanders was a huge mistake.

Probably, but Sanders was asymmetrical candidate. She had so much to lose. He had nothing to lose. Very little leverage. For the consummate insider, again, all that establishment support ended up just being baggage.

Or maybe that just means she could have gone after him without fear of reprisal. I don't know.

She couldn't afford to lose the Bernie-of-bust vote... and yet she probably lost it anyways. Ugh. I just don't know.

Worked for Obama.

Waste of money and resources, but Bush + financial crisis were existential threats that provided party unity. Trump should have been, clearly wasn't.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I plan to vote for the candidate that the establishment backs. They're generally pretty smart and organized.

Yeah, that worked out great this time.

There's no question HRC was qualified, but I think the Democratic leaders were blind by their friendly relationship to realize how much her baggage dragged her down. I don't think they have the best judgment.

 

[UltimaPooh]

Debates are really bullshit anymore.

Someone floated the idea of having a couple hour long grill session by someone. Delve into policy and plans a bit more. You can't do shit in 3 minutes at a debate.

I guess it should really depend on your bench tho. You got a big bench you'll need more debates.

I do like the grill session tho.